Kool_Kat Posted June 23, 2007 I was referring to your suggestion of a nanny for our hypothetical gynaecologist mother. She is still not home with her child and misses all the priceless moments, so then why advocate for a nanny? Nanny and day care in this case as with regards to the missing of moments is still the same, no? Mom might be away, but the child is still at his/her home...The child is not being dragged outside the home early every morning - summer, winter, spring, and fall too...Not to mention all the traffing the child is gonna sit through, to and from the child care...If the child becomes sick (day cares won't take the child until he/she is well again), the mom doesn't have to look for alternate child care than the day care...If the mom has to work late, she doesn't have to worry, the child is at his/her comfortable home... I can go on and on about the benefit of having a nanny (whether live-in or out)... Originally posted by Rahima: I think you missed my jab at Aaliyah-re-read it Could it be that may be (and that's just may be), I was having a blonde moment... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rahima Posted June 23, 2007 ^ as with regards to the missing of moments Which was the point originally. Nanny or day care is not the point of contention. The above was in reference to our gynaecologist mother. Wether or not she employs the services of a nanny or day care; she is still away from her child and we still remain at the same problem. For our gynaecologist mother and many like her, giving up is not an option . Could it be that may be (and that's just may be), I was having a blonde moment... You're excused this time, just this once ok . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kool_Kat Posted June 23, 2007 RAHIMA, In the case of a nanny, it benefits both the child and the mother more than a day care... As I have stated in my previous post: Mom might be away, but the child is still at his/her home...The child is not being dragged outside the home early every morning - summer, winter, spring, and fall too...Not to mention all the traffing the child is gonna sit through, to and from the child care...If the child becomes sick (day cares won't take the child until he/she is well again), the mom doesn't have to look for alternate child care than the day care...If the mom has to work late, she doesn't have to worry, the child is at his/her comfortable home... If it benefits both the mother and the child better than day care, why not...Not to mention, hiring a nanny costs less than day care... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aaliyyah Posted June 23, 2007 P.S. Aaliyah you best be be careful with the only wanting three children choice. I mean really, we as Muslims should be aiming to have as many children as possible- it really is extremely westernised of you to want to limit like that. What is that you say? It's your choice? You know what is best for you? I should mind my own business? Every individual is entitled for their own personal choices. No one has the right to dictate some one else’s life. But, we are permitted to express our opinions. I do understand where you are coming from sister in terms of having big families. Religiously speaking it is encouraged to have a big family. But, this is not about preferring to have small family. From my perspective, it is hard if not nearly impossible to have a career and raise let’s say 7 kids. When I get children, I believe in raising them on my own til they reach school age. If I was to do that with 7 kids lol, what is the chance that I would go back and work ?? most likely I wouldn't work. So, having smaller family is what works for me. However we all make choices which are best for us, and just like Aaliyah would appreciate it if others respected her right to family plan she should respect others and their choices. Rahima sis I do object sending kids to daycare when they are young, which I mentioned repeatedly in my previous posts. But, this doesn’t mean I don’t respect the mother who decides to send her child to daycare. In all my posts I was simply showing that it wouldn’t be something I would personally do given that I disapprove, and believe it wouldn't be good for the child. Likewise, perhaps you disagree with me choosing to have few kids, but that doesn’t mean you disrespect me, simply you don’t agree with my decision. wa salaamu alaikum Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
-Serenity- Posted June 23, 2007 Look what Baashi has done. It was all well planned ladies, he meant to get u guys arguin over really irrelevant matters (in the bigger scheme of things, everything is circumstantial, no single glove fits all... erm, did I just agree with Rahima? ). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rahima Posted June 24, 2007 KK, did you read the bold part ? Aaliyah, how many children you have is none of my business. If i were to tell you to have more kids when i don't know your circumstance or priorities i would be offending you. Foremost i would be insulting your intelligence because obviously then I’d be saying (indirectly) that i know what is best for you better than you do yourself? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Blessed Posted June 24, 2007 Every individual is entitled for their own personal choices. No one has the right to dictate some one else’s life. But, we are permitted to express our opinions What if your opinion indirectly gives employers the thumbs up for mistreating mothers for simply being mothers at work? The article that has instigated this debate, talks of a mother who was told to choose between a sick child and unemployment. This highlights a real problem in society. Women face so many obstacles for simply choosing to become mothers. We live in a world that has some very narrow views of what a woman should be. Whilst you clearly disagree on the notion that we should all think and do alike, you still have this tendency to repeat some of the fallacies and assumptions that are used to send out a very negative image of women who work. This image is what continues to feed a system of inequality which mainly affects women. You see Rahimas contention is whilst we all have the right to an opinion and to express it. We also need to look at the bigger picture, we may differ in our styles but bottom line we will at one point be mothers at work. It doesn’t matter if your child is 1 or ten. Those negatives images of working mothers that you support now will come to haunt you when you ask for a day off to see your childs high school graduation or sports day... etc, etc. As women, parents or aspiring parents we need to not merely respect but also defend a mother’s choice to work. As a consequence, we unitarily send out the message, that it's okay for a mother to be in the work place and thus companies and governments have to start being family friendly. The debates on the right age before your work or the best childcare are just small fish in an ocean. Only a small minority of women will be privildged enough to ponder over them at leisure. It’s time we collectively dealt with the sharks ( I don't mean Baashi). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kool_Kat Posted June 25, 2007 Originally posted by Rahima: KK, did you read the bold part ? Yes... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aaliyyah Posted June 26, 2007 You see Rahimas contention is whilst we all have the right to an opinion and to express it. We also need to look at the bigger picture, we may differ in our styles but bottom line we will at one point be mothers at work. It doesn’t matter if your child is 1 or ten. Those negatives images of working mothers that you support now will come to haunt you when you ask for a day off to see your childs high school graduation or sports day... etc, etc Zenobia sis, you entirely misunderstood me. I was sharing my personal opinion in terms of sending young kids to daycare. I have never said a mother shouldn’t get respect from her employer. Of course, an employer has to understand when a mother wants to stay home with a sick child, or as you have mentioned attend a graduation ceremony. Taking few days off to take care of your kids should be accepted. When it comes to how an employer should treat his employee, an employer has no right to decide when a mother can join the work force that is totally up to her. If she chooses to send her three months old baby to a daycare, no one really has a say in it. In that scenario, we should all support one another; a woman has the right to send her child whether he is one or 10 to daycare. But, I have shared my stand in terms of sending young kids to daycare, I honestly don't agree with those who send their young kids to daycare, but it is their right to live their life However they choose. That is the beauty of life; everyone is unique and has different perspective on issues. wa salaamu alaikum Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nephissa Posted June 26, 2007 Aliyah wrote: If she chooses to send her three months old baby to a daycare, no one really has a say in it. In that scenario, we should all support one another; a woman has the right to send her child whether he is one or 10 to daycare. and then: I honestly don't agree with those who send their young kids to daycare, I won't even ask.. but know this, no one, regardless if a mother has made the choice to stay at home or work, has the right to say she is not doing what is best for that child. It's easy intaa meel la fariisto sidan baan yeeli lahaa, ama sidan la yiraah. Maka fikir-tay inay some mothers haysan the luxury of being able to afford the day to day things in life that they need, by her staying home? That for some, staying home means living on badhar and jam or noodles and water? Waa itayan ku qabsan. Can most mothers (married or single) these days (no gov aid or help) afford to stay home and still have all the necessities, and not struggle day per day to make ends meet? Nonetheless, I 110% agree that most kids should be raised by a loving, caring and attentive parent, but we also must be realistic. My point with this discussion about stay-at-home-mom vs working mom is that both work for different reasons, and saying one is better for kids than the other is wrong and insulting to those parents who choose the opposite of what one believes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aaliyyah Posted June 26, 2007 In one of my previous posts I wrote : However, I would say if a woman has a man who can work and provide for his family then she shouldn’t rush to work outside her home, at least for the first few years of her child’s life. This should tell you that I totally understand those who are forced to work in order to provide for their families. And, I am not insulting anyone; it is quite obvious which alternative is better for a child. So, if a woman has some one else to provide, than it would be in the best interest of her child if she stayed home. kee wanagsan hoyo ilmaheeda korsata , ama daycare ??? dhaqan/diin/adaab/ ama luqad mid toono ma lagu bari toono daycarekaaas, hadad jeclaateen geesta. Anu waaba ka daalay murankan walaalayaal Wa salaamu alaikum Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kool_Kat Posted June 26, 2007 Originally posted by AAliyah416: dhaqan/diin/adaab/ ama luqad mid toono ma lagu bari toono daycarekaaas, hadad jeclaateen geesta. Anu waaba ka daalay murankan walaalayaal LOOOOOL...My sentiments exactly!!! The point is not is one mother better than the other...Rather, what is better for the child...And we all know whether we like to admit it or not, that the child is better off being raised by his/her mother, at least for the first few years of his/her life... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Baashi Posted June 28, 2007 Doable but extremely difficult and challenging. I'm sure ya all understand the kinda sacrifices ya have to be willing to make in order to have it all. Good discussion though. PS: Baby Boom is a good flick. Dianna Keaton, ur typical career woman, tastes what's it like to have a kid and eye the fleeting upward mobility. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rahima Posted June 30, 2007 I'm sure ya all understand the kinda sacrifices ya have to be willing to make in order to have it all. No we didn't Baashi, thanks for telling us though . Anyhow, I’m glad many of the female SOLers are on to you maal mahaan . We regret the very few fallen sisters , but generally strong and united we remain. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Baashi Posted June 30, 2007 'Close the rank' groupthink mentality huh! All of that in the name of womenhood Rahima, maxay awoowe ka rabaan? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
