The Judge, The Jinni And The Corruption Case!

[NGONGE]

Tuesday, 26 October 2010

 

JEDDAH: The Chairman of the Lawyers Committee in Madina has said he expects the judge being held on corruption charges to have the funds he earned during the course of his duties seized by the state.

 

Sultan Bin Zahim said that investigators will be looking at the nature and causes of the judge’s behavior, and that any conviction would seek to prevent its reoccurrence.

 

According to Bin Zahim, the Higher Judicial Council has yet to be presented with any charges against the judge, who is alleged to have accepted money to ease real estate cases through his court, but investigations are ongoing and numerous witnesses and suspects are being questioned.

 

“Once the Bureau of Monitoring and Investigation has established that there is substance to the charges against the judge, they will be put before the Higher Judicial Council which will then take up the investigation,” Bin Zahim said.

The lawyer said that if it goes to trial, the case will be heard behind closed doors and the judge will be allowed a defense attorney. Due to the special nature of the case, the ruling will be decided by a majority and will be final. “The suggestions by some lawyers that the judge should be pardoned but removed from his post should he be found guilty would not constitute a strong enough deterrent,” Bin Zahim said.

 

The Madina judge was first taken into custody during Ramadan for allegedly accepting bribes to arrange through his court illegal ownership of real estate. Several businessmen and state employees along with seven engineering and planning firms are all suspected of involvement in the various cases that passed through his courtroom.

 

The case raised eyebrows in legal and public circles, however, after the judge claimed that he was “under a magic spell” at the time of offenses for which he has been held on charges of corruption. The judge said he was later cured of the spell through “ruqya”, healing through Qur’anic recitation.

 

Fayez Al-Qathami, a well-known practitioner of “ruqya” subsequently claimed that he questioned a “jinni”- or “genie”, as traditionally rendered in English – that spoke through the judge and identified a real estate broker who is also a suspect in the case as the caster of the spell.

 

Last Thursday, Salim Bin Atiya, the lawyer defending the “spell-casting” broker, demanded that Al-Qathami bring the genie to court so that his statements could be heard.

 

“If what the judge says is true, then the genie is either immoral or an unbeliever sent by a magic practitioner who has left the bounds of religion, as acts of magic by necessity require one to abandon the realm of Islam and enter the realm of unbelief,” Bin Atiya said.

 

What the genie said ( )

 

More recently, Al-Qathami spoke to Okaz/Saudi Gazette and gave details of his conversation with the genie – who spoke through the tongue of the judge – and reiterated that the session was conducted in the presence of members of the Commission for the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice (the Hai’a), a claim previously denied by the presidency of the organization.

“The judge was given ruqya readings by sheikhs from Qassim, and the genie spoke to them,” he said. “What he said needs to be verified, as our Sheikh Bin Baz (the former Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia) said that if a genie spoke through a human tongue then that genie would be acting criminally, and might be lying.”

 

The genie is purported to have revealed the name of a real estate broker it said was responsible for putting the accused judge under a spell, but Al-Qathami warned that the information might not be reliable.

 

When asked if the genie provided details on the cases in which the judge was involved, Al-Qathami said that all the details were with the Hai’a who recorded them in their report.

“The relevant authorities are investigating,” he added.

 

On the subject of the judge, he said that he had most recently started treating him in Ramadan of this year, but had first conducted ruqya readings for him four years ago when he showed signs of “weariness”.

 

“The magic only really took hold of him a year or two ago though,” he said, adding that what happened to the judge was “magic, making people do things of which they are not conscious”.

 

– Okaz/Saudi Gazette

 

Source

[SayidSomal]

Last Thursday, Salim Bin Atiya, the lawyer defending the “spell-casting” broker,

demanded that Al-Qathami bring the genie to court so that his statements could be heard.

&

“What he said needs to be verified, as our Sheikh Bin Baz (the former Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia) said that

if a genie spoke through a human tongue then that genie would be acting criminally, and might be lying.”

We need a lawyer like this one at the other thread.

[SayidSomal]

"Twinkie defense" is a derisive label for an improbable legal defense. It is not an actual legal defense in jurisprudence, but a catchall term coined by reporters during their coverage of the trial of defendant Dan White for the murders of San Francisco city supervisor Harvey Milk and mayor George Moscone. White's defense was that he suffered diminished capacity as a result of his depression. His change in diet from health food to Twinkies and other sugary food was said to be a symptom of depression. The media misinterpreted this defense as a claim that sugary food was itself responsible for White's criminal behavior. White was convicted of voluntary manslaughter.

[SayidSomal]

BTW, is there any precedent for jinn causing people to do wrong? Like, did it stand up in court as a valid defense or did this guy just make it up so he wouldn’t be blamed? Maybe it’s like demon possession where the demon influences a person to rob a bank or rape or murder. Do you think this can happen or does it belong in the funny pages or tabloids?

The funniest part to me is that a committee investigated his claims!

[NGONGE]

^^ It throws up all sorts of questions. God knows how they'll be answered though.

[Ismalura]

Jinni wuu jiraa it is mentioned in the Quran and it can influence people in certain ways. But this is is probably a very lame excuse to deny responsibility for his actions.

 

He must think that people are ****** to make such claims to cover up for his corruption. Wonder who spent the money him or the Jinni?

[Prometheus]

I'm not sure who's more loopy and crazy; the judge who is supposedly possessed by a jinn, or the lawyer whose defense strategy is putting the jinn on the witness stand.

 

Mental disorders such as schizophrenia, clinical depression, psychosis, and mania are all mistreated in that part of the world as demonic possession. Instead of being administered palliative drug treatments, a patient is subjected to a battery of useless - oftentimes ruthless - incantation rituals that scarcely treat the underlying physiological problem. How sad.

[Ismalura]

Originally posted by Prometheus:

I'm not sure who's more loopy and crazy; the judge who is supposedly possessed by a jinn, or the lawyer whose defense strategy is putting the jinn on the witness stand.

 

Mental disorders such as schizophrenia, clinical depression, psychosis, and mania are all mistreated in that part of the world as demonic possession. Instead of being administered palliative drug treatments, a patient is subjected to a battery of useless - oftentimes ruthless - incantation rituals that scarcely treat the underlying physiological problem. How sad.

Are you saying there is no Jinn?

 

I actually think the opposite of what you said...they diagnize chizophrenia, clinical depression, psychosis, and mania when they see people possessed by the jinni.

 

'They' have made the biggest discoveries in mental disorders and have the largest number of mental health doctors yet they have the largest number of people suffering from this problems, care to explain?

[Che -Guevara]

“under a magic spell”

Smart man actually-This is the equivalence of claiming temporary insanity in the American courts. Of course, the situation had to be tailored to Saudi minds and he did beautifully.

 

The judge said he was later cured of the spell through “ruqya”, healing through Qur’anic recitation.

The good judge took a prescribed medications and his sanity is restored

 

The words of the Jinni can not incriminate the judge as the temporary insanity is the simply the manifestation of schizophrenic mind with multiple personalities. The judge had no help with his situation. Now who's to say which personality took the bribe?

[NGONGE]

^^ You believe someone can actually be possesed by a jinn?

 

Prometheus,

Come on, the lawyer came up with the perfect question. His client must face his accuser (who happens to be a Jinni) in a court of law.

 

I do love Saudis with their amazing moral panics. They are never simple stories or even logical. Worse still, the way the stories build up makes it worthwhile for one to follow (for a laugh at least). Now some in the media are demanding that all Judges in the Kingdom have their own personal 'ruqya' protectros. Others are wondering if the Judge (or the Jinni) presided on previous cases and punished innocents as a result. The librals (who must be licking their lips with delight, and laughter) are making the most out of this situation and demanding that Fayez Al-Qathami (the rugya expert) must be punished if he does not prove beyond any doubt that he can actually speak to jinn.

 

It's the most brilliant story ever and it's all taking place in Medina!

[Ismalura]

Do you believe there is jinn?

[NGONGE]

^^ Of course. I am a Muslim after all. There are several mentions of them in the quran and hadeeth.

[Ismalura]

Originally posted by NGONGE:

^^ Of course. I am a Muslim after all. There are several mentions of them in the quran and hadeeth.

I don't question you being a muslim or take it for granted so I had to ask you the question.

 

Are they visible?

 

We agree that there is jinn (mentioned in the quran so we know for sure) and they are not visible (unless you have seen some your self) and they share the earth with us (as also mentoned in the quran and hadith.) Do you see some basis for possession there?

 

My God ! western education is pushing out some other knowledge from people's brains. Try and keep them all in people !

[NGONGE]

^^ There you go again.

I asked you one question (which you did not reply to by the way) and you came back at me with half a dozen of yours that do nothing but state the obvious. Lets try again, do you believe that Jinn possess people? Why? And how did you arrive at such a belief? (that they exist is not enough nooh).

[Prometheus]

I prefer to understand allusions to jinns in a less literal fashion, as instances of figurative language - parable, metaphor, imagery.

 

Ismalura, have you seen a typical exorcism video? Such primitive "medical" practices are not only ineffective but dangerous, a flouting of the "first, do no harm" principle of medicine. Besides, the spectacle of a mullah pestering a patient with dopaminergic pathway problems with religious ultimatums is farcical.