Ends DO NOT justify means

[underdog]

I think you guys a re running off on a tangent here....I could be wrong :confused:

[babyface]

wind talker----

"Explain why there's a remarkably high rate of suicide among dentists!"

yea,pls do windtalker, 'cuz i never herd that lil' statistic before n im considering a possicle career in dentistry..dentists have hi rate of siucide??>... come on now..now therapists, thas understandable, listenin to nuthin but peoples problems all day...

 

ok goin bAk to the topic here, i thnk the poster had some good points not all tho.... about the book publishing, brother if someone wanted to publish a book about the discrimination muslims faced after 9/11 and scholastic offered to publish theres no harm in that, but wat i think the point of 'ends do not justify means' is that you cant take the easy route to get to yor destination, like another person said about sleepin around to become ceo...overall, hard work, perseverence, and good morals will get you on the right path......

 

jus my two cents y'all...

[Captivating_SouL]

DiAmOnD_EyEz Sweetiez, welcome to our infamous site here on somalia online; am sure my fellow nomads will surely greet you as i have. Make the best of it. Ta ta...

 

AkA Brown_Sugah

[underdog]

infamous????

 

who? where?

[Libaax-Sankataabte]

Originally posted by Captivating_SouL:

infamous site

Ouuuuch!!! thats being a little ungrateful to camel milk threads.

 

Brown_Sugah, take it back or else the nomads will xagxago you.

[wind talker]

DIAMOND EYES -

 

There's plenty of research done on the subject. You're welcome to go to your nearest library and check out the books that deal with this. In the meantime, here's a synopsis of the problem itself.

 

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/010420.html

 

You have to also recognize there's great conflict amongst the researchers; some who say the rate is the highest in the medical field and others who oppose this notion. You be the judge!

 

P.S. I hope useless reports like these don't discourage you from following dentistry as a subject matter. After all, they're just numbers! Good luck yo.

[Senora]

Does that not depend on WHAT you're selling? If I published a book on Somali tribes, detailing how tribe A is a bunch of theiving murdering low-lifes and Tribe B can never be trusted because they'll sell you out to the highest bidder and kill you in your sleep and Tribe C is known for having homosexuals and prostitutes. If I wrote that book and mass produced it through Goldstein and Walberg for Cash, you're saying that fine because it's just a means to an end, right?

I'm a little lost here....what "end" are you trying to accomplish here...It seems to me that your motive is just to get out your opinions about Tribe A, B and C? So having the book be produced by Goldstein is doing what???.....The saying states that " your ends dont justify your means?...but how were your ends morally right to begin with.....In most cases, the means of how you go about things are wrong, but in this case, you were wrong to even write the book?.... well at least the contents in the book were...

 

I'm probably confused with the topic but I disagree with your statement playa: "Your goal or what you want to accomplish does not validate how you get there."

i think you were just a bit confused there Kaafi....because you pretty much have the idea here

 

For instance, providing for your family and making sure they're healthy, doesnt mean you go and sell crack. There are always alternatives that one can pursue. What happened to going to school and earning a degree that pays?

The only way I can make you, and the rest that might be a little hazy about the topic, understand is just reiterate what Diamond_Eyez stated

 

As with the young lady using her sexuality as means to climb the corporate ladder....or the young man selling crack to provide for his family.....if the methods are immoral and unethical, however the outcome may be, then it doesn't make it right....I really hope I cleared it up for some....Because when I come back to disagree with this statement, I want to make sure I haven't left anyone behind

[underdog]

Now that we're all caught up, Princess, the point I'm attempting to make with the book example is that if My desired end is make some money off a bunch of lies I would have to publish that book through a source that doesn't know any better. This example is in reference to the one Opinionated disputed. Where "someone" attempted to get into the spotlight by making allegations through a publisher whose only interest was to cash in on the anti-Muslim sentiment and market it as "An educated Muslim speaks out against flaws in Islam". The "author" defends her postion as "clarifying some contradictions" and all I'm saying is if that was trully her intended end (which I ain't buyin) there are better means to it.

 

Comprende?

[Senora]

Were you using the story as an example to support the claim.." ends do not justify means"?Because thats where i think the problem is..

 

See with your example i dont think the problem lies within the "means"...i think its the "end"...Now with the other examples...the guy who's trying to provide food for his family, or the woman trying to get ahead in the work field...what do those "ends" have in common? They're reasonable, and right....or Just.

But what is so just about telling lies in the first part. Thats what I'm trying to get cleared up...

 

In the exmaples above, do you agree that the problems were in how they went about things...rather then what they accomplished...? If you do, then you will understand me when i say that, the problems were with what you wanted to accomplish...there is nothing morally right about spreading lies in the first part...

 

Coppish

[Hashim]

If i create like a TALIBAN militia to fight against all these warlords and to restore LAW & ORDER in the country; is this NOBLE end justifies to kill anyone who are the side of the warlords?

[Conscious Manipulation]

salaam alaykum

 

Originally posted by muraad:

For example to be a member of parliment in Egypt, saudi arabia, Jordan Yemen etc. some uluma say these governments do not rule according ALLAH and his MESSNGERS will. therefore it is HARAAM to be a member of their parliment etc. in addition, they argue, when you're entering their parliment etc. you've to accept their constitution (which is man-made constitution) and to obbey the king, president etc (who doesn't rule according Quran and Sunnah), while others are saying although they're doing many wrong and sinfull things, it is permissble to be a member of their cabinet with the intention of reforming what they've damaged. these Uluma ae arguing that these rulers, desbite their crimes, are Muslim so we have to work with them to achieve our ends since there is no evidence prohibiting us to work with them. they argue that we can work with non-muslims in order to help muslims, therefore no problem at all to work with them to help muslims.

Muraad, good example. The Ikhwaanul Muslimeen in egypt even go as far as to use the political role of Yusuf (as) to justify their actions and while I'm not aware of all the hukum related to this subject they seem to at least have a point worth arguing. What I can't get over is the "ulema" of the west and how they justify participation in the political process... work within the system to make it more Islam friendly. I remember the last elections when the Muslim organizations in the US rallied behind Bush urging Muslims to vote for him and we can see how well that turned out now can't we?

 

I think the problem with us Muslims is we become too impatient and resort to haraam means forgeting that victory comes to those who strive with patience. May Allah grant us the wisdom and patience to restore ourselves to our rightful place.

 

salaam