What Would Somalia be like..

[Fabregas]

quote:Some Somali Clans/subclans are vowed at to act and keep imitating one of those Arab tribes in the Islamic history.

It seems that to belong to the prophet's(PBUH) tribe is the Somali clan fuel.

 

You have a point there. One could say Arabs to an extent have influenced us with their tribalism. Plus Somali nomadic lifestyle is very similar to Arab lifestyle. So it somewhat encourages a patriachal lifestyle where one is dependant on simply trying to survive and thus seek protection from a wider family also known as a clan system. I was reading somer research that said Northern Somali Nomads claimed descendancy from the Prophet( saw) family, even though they were least likely to have come in contact with Arabs Muslims than their counterparts in the South. Somalis in the South are said to have come in contact with Arab/Persian Muslims far earlier due to migrations from Arabia during the civil wars over the Caliphate and the Ridda wars. Even though mainstream historians say that Muqdisho was founded by Arabs Persians one of the main subclans in that area still contends that they were the rulers of the city and suprisingly their major clan never claimed Arab descendacy.

 

 

But your claim that the Somali clan system is fueled by a desire to belong to the Prophets( tribe) is a bit exaggerated. One could say that the true descendants of early Muslim migrants in Somalia are the ones who seem more tolerant, live in multiclan coastal cities and developed a mixed culture which doesn't place a great deal of emphasis on clan organisation than the SOmali nomads and citymen they found in Somalia. There are major clans that don't claim a Somali/Cushitic origin. Thus one would assume that Somalis had a clan system before Islam came to their shores. Whether Islam or Arabs accelerated this would depend on conducting some serious research into the clan system Somalis had before Islam/Arabs came to their shores, something we have very little written information about.

[Fabregas]

quote:We landers have never killed one another so please don't generalize.

 

Southern Somalis or other Somalis have never had in their traits to kill one another. The vast majority of them don't want to slaughter each other. The killing was caused by a major civil war which involved warlords/rebels which took thousands of young men under the wing on the premise of fighting for clan rights. Thus these young men as in many other parts commited gross violations against other human beings. This happened from Sierra Leone, Bosnia to Kosovo.

 

 

Somalilanders( whatever that means) too particpated in the civil war and some of the clans alleged indicriminate killing. But the issue was solved politically during the clan elder and political conferences. Southern SOmalia didn't get this because the leaders and warlords couldn't agree on power sharing/conflict resolution. Had they done that then perhaps Southern Somalia would have been peaceful like Puntland and Somaliland. The only thing Somaliland and Puntland did was remove the monopoly of power from the people to the government institution and disarm the majority people. The Islamic Courts did this for only six months and look wow Somalis in the SOuth weren't slaughtering each other over clan issues. So again this proves that the slaughtering was being done by warlords and their moryaan militias as oppposed to the average Somali. If people in southern Somalia get a real government they trust they will be ready to hand over the weapons. But if there are warlords roaming around the place, then every subclan will be obliged to hold on to their weapons or if not seek alliances with strong warlords, Ethiopia or armed political Islamist groups. The average Somali young male wouldn't be obliged carry an Ak47 if he saw an instituion that protected him and others from violating their rights.

 

 

Maybe am too much of an optimist?

[Johnny B]

^Not only an optimist but incureably apologetic , had i been to judge that is, specefically towards the romance between the Somali tribal mind-set and its bad need to root to Islamic tribal history, needlessly to mention the indiscriminate killings among the 'Landers' if you must.

 

But that is for another day, for now let us deal with the nuts and bolts of the tribe-mind-set, be it one or several tribes).

Maybe i was not that exaggerating when i claimed that the desire to belong to the Tribe of the prophet is fueling the tribal mind-set.

 

have you ever thought of Somalia's ( the ethnic Somalis as a single entity) surname? , yes it's 'Mohammed'.

You're forgiven for having not addressed a crowd of Somalis by stating " waryada Somali Mohamed " becouse no other name applied could yeild more attention.

Such is the direct approach of the message in the tribal weaves.

 

You're right about the pre-islam Somali history was a lost vital knot in our culture, though as any culture no matter how uncivilized it woulden't just vanish without leaving its mark on us.

 

Sadly Islam or Muslim-Somalia does not encourage its revival, on the contrary, its been wiped out for good or worse.

[Ibtisam]

Somaliand is peaceful and has been for many years. We landers have never killed one another so please don't generalize.

 

Its best to specific when you make a comment like " slaughtering each other" .

Erm perhaps I can refer you to some history lessons. Somalis where ever they are (including Landers) have been involved in and some still involved in hostile guerrilla warfare. I guess you slept thorough 1994-1997, when Burco and Hargisa returned to a state of anarchy?

 

But your claim that the Somali clan system is fueled by a desire to belong to the Prophets( tribe) is a bit exaggerated.

a little exaggerated you say? You are being far too nice.

 

You're forgiven for having not addressed a crowd of Somalis by stating "

waryada Somali Mohamed

" becouse no other name applied could yeild more attention.

JB, the saying is “Waryaa ummada nibi maxammed A reference to religious practice rather than clan.

[Chimera]

90% of Somalis that perished during the civil war died because of a ''famine'' similar to the one that happened in the 70s only then there was a government in place that prevented it from becoming a crisis. North Korea's famine of 1995 is said to have taken millions of lives so a harvest that fails is serious business

 

A years deathtoll(violent deaths) in Anarchy Somalia was nothing compared to the 2007 - TFG year. There were road blocks extortions,fear etc and all the hallmarks of a Governmentless city but look how fast this situation occurred in the so-called democratic country of Kenya. If it's government is toppled and the rebels bicker about power while kenyans are hit by a famine accompanied by external meddling then Kenya is gone

 

So i doubt this qualifies as ''slaughtering eachother''(i.e Rwanda situation) when you have two regions who were in peace throughout the civil war and a Southern region which was in Anarchy but still made lots of progress in multiple sectors. The six months of ICU stability is evidence of how quikly the situation can be turned around when there is trust and the absence of puppets.

 

Promegranate why are you so interested in opening a can of worms, do you know how easily the content of your post could be refuted?

[Fabregas]

quote:have you ever thought of Somalia's ( the ethnic Somalis as a single entity) surname? , yes it's 'Mohammed'.

 

 

lolllllllll, Saxiib, there are clans in Somalia who don't trace their lineage back to the Prophet Muhammad saw. It seems they existed before Islam came to Somalia. Our good Sheikh Indhacade belongs to a clan( no offense to them) who don't claim Arab lineage but he said to have oppressed some SOmalis with apparent Arab heritage, bal taa nooga waran? how does that fit in to your claims?