Baby boy survives for nearly two days after abortion

[General Duke]

Originally posted by chocolate & honey:

I'm pro-choice. Do it or Dont do it, it is upto the woman. Goverments need to stay out of it.

Why did you not say that before. Now you know that stance is not compatable with Islam dont you?

[Chocolate and Honey]

Here we go! NEVER MIND!

[General Duke]

^^^lool.

[Che -Guevara]

I think Duke is saying on something you need to take moral stance even if that means infringing on others' rights.Moral values has no "buts".

[Chocolate and Honey]

I'm ok with my morality being questioned over the simple fact that I refuse to impose my views on others(which I decided to discuss with Duke in private to clarify his reasons).

[Che -Guevara]

You are essentially saying you are against it but won't do anything about it.

 

In any dogma, morality is closely followed by "duty".Maybe this is what Duke is trying to reconcile.Morality bounds one to duty even more so in religious traditions.

[Chocolate and Honey]

Understood. I would love for the current law to be revised and time clause reduced. But the only practical choice right now is to either Illegalize or keep it the way it is. And I'm against goverment intervention in the matter of one's body.

[Jacpher]

^But it ain't only about 'one's body' as you put it. There's a heart-beating human baby involved and such operation results death I might add.

[Eng.Cadde]

Even though abortion is haram shit still happens,This girl i know had to undergo abortion twice before of her carelessness.Her family had to arrange a dhaqan celis trip back home.lol,I dont condone it and i dont judge her.it her lifestyle after all.,

 

I believe it is very rare for a normal muslimah to find her self in such situation(Having some dude plant his illegitimate seed in her womb).

 

 

C and honey

 

Do you have any experience with such thing?

[NASSIR]

Such terrible cases are very few in our community, I hope.

 

Che, regardless of a rape incident, this thing shouldn't be allowed. That idea is simply against our belief system of pre-destination. The perpetrator of that crime would be severely punished and the child of that birth would be treated like any other orphan.

 

As for saving the life of a mother, such procedure is compatible with our religious doctrine since there is only one option to save one life or allow two lives get destroyed under your watch. And all other scientific hypothesis and argument that the feotus hasn't fully developed into a child disquilifies the very basic definition of "pro-life vs. pro-choice". Or should we place social stigma, financial burden, and materialism above the life of a human being?

[Sherban Shabeel]

^All I have to say is, life is more than just breathing and having a heartbeat.

 

It's being loved and cared for, learning how to love and care for others, being happy and fulfilled.

 

If you can't offer that to a child, you shouldn't have it. Period.

 

The evil of children being born to bad parents far outweighs the evil of abortion.

[NASSIR]

^You have a point but this is a matter of saving life or destroying it.

 

Let's look at it from religious and scientific side on what is considered a human form. Starting with this quote,

"The scholars all agree that abortion is forbidden after the first four months of pregnancy, since by that time the soul has entered the embryo.....The Shafi school (dominant in Southeast Asia, southern Arabia, parts of East Africa) allows abortions to be performed up to day 120. For the Maliki school (prevalent in North and Black Africa) an abortion is permissible with the consent of both parents up to day 40; it is no longer allowed after that. For the Hanbali school (predominant in Saudi Arabia and United Arabic Emirates) abortions are principally prohibited from day 40 onward."

Ibrahim B. Syed, Ph. D.

 

Since this is the case in Islam, the scientific side perfectly proves the Qur'an that after 40 days soul enters the embryo. But in most cases, termination procedures is done after more than 40 days.

 

To illustrate how a form of human life develops, it's important to consider the scientific explanation. Almost all adult males produce thousands of spermatozoa (male germ cells) each second. It would take about 500 of them lined up in a row to total 1 inch in length. They take a month or so to travel from a testicle, through a long tube called the "vas deferens," to reach a small reservoir inside the man's prostate gland. Here, semen (a mixture of spermatozoa and various fluids) is formed. Each spermatozoon contains human DNA. They certainly appear to be living organisms. As seen in a microscope, they seem to be moving energetically with the sole motivation of fusing with an ovum. Most people consider them to be a form of human life, because they appear alive and contain human DNA.

 

Secondly, The woman ovulates and produces one mature ovum (egg cell). It travels down one of her fallopian tubes towards her uterus. It is about 1/100" in diameter, and is barely visible to the naked eye. It also considered by most of the public to be a form of human life, for the above reasons. But it does not meet some scientists' strict definition of a living organism, because it lacks one factor: the ability by itself to reproduce. It can only reproduce with the assistance of a spermatozoon. The evident is that male are carriers of life.

 

After the above steps, the zygote(waa xuub samaysma oo u eg plasma membrane) now consists of 16 cells and is called a 16 cell morula (known as pre-embryo) It has normally reached the junction of the fallopian tube and the uterus. The process now begins in full.

 

Approximately after one week, the grouping of cells are now called a blastocyst. It has an inner group of cells which will become the fetus and later the newborn

 

In week five, small arm and leg buds have formed. Hands with webs between the fingers have formed at the end of the arm buds. Fingerprints are detectable. It's a very little, but there you can tell it has human forms.

 

Let's jump to week six. the embryo is about 1/2" long. The face has two eyes on each side of its head; the front of the face has the basic structure of human. Now it has a full life.

[Blessed]

Originally posted by chocolate & honey:

Understood. I would love for the current law to be revised and time clause reduced. But the only practical choice right now is to either Illegalize or keep it the way it is. And I'm against goverment intervention in the matter of one's body.

You said you are against it because your faith says so-- but do you realise that Islam considers it murder after a certain time (40-120 days of pregnancy)? Islam looks at both the rights of mother and the unborn. You can't defend the rights of one over the other, esp. when one is defenseless and yes this view point should be universal because your faith is universal.

[Chocolate and Honey]

Even though abortion is haram shit still happens,This girl i know had to undergo abortion twice before of her carelessness.Her family had to arrange a dhaqan celis trip back home.lol,I dont condone it and i dont judge her.it her lifestyle after all.,

 

I believe it is very rare for a normal muslimah to find her self in such situation(Having some dude plant his illegitimate seed in her womb).

 

 

C and honey

 

Do you have any experience with such thing?

Were you the father the second time too darn :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

 

War dhageeyso, how old are you horta? Grow up! This is grown people discussion. If you cant personally add anything of value, dont say anything then.

 

Blessed

The only life that currently exists is the mother and her decision should be honored. And like I said, the time should be reduced. I wouldnt do it personally for the reasons I have already discussed but if my co-worker Brooke wants to abort, it is HER choice.

 

Nassir,

 

You've said even in rape or incest cases, one shouldnt do it. Obviously you have never met a thirteen year old girl pregnant the second time with her Grandfather's child, lifeless, sick, can't stand her baby(tried to burn the first baby a couple of times) and is on a suicide watch when she is not on a combination of drugs that make her feel NOTHING. This is a reality in Shelters and group homes.

[Blessed]

I think it would be beneficial to look at the rights of the unborn in Islam. After 4 months, they have rights similar to any human, even if mother is gaalo. It's not as if a fetus of a Muslimah is more precious that that of a none Muslimah. You should look up fiqh of misccariage in Islam too as that would shed somelight on the status of the unborn fetus- after 4 months.

 

With regards to the rape scenario, that's a matter of fiqh and falls under the very few cases where abortion might be permisable in Islam but statistically abortion as a result of rape is low, about 1% or less. And wouldn't it be more practical to abort as soon as the pregnancy is discovered?

 

Most women abort for social reasons such as wrong timing, wrong gender in some communities or like in this case the fetus was aborted because of a minor medical condition that could have been fixed. It's just outragious, even the man who pushed for the abortion reforms in the UK is troubled by the current trends.

 

p.s I'm not saying that you should go and 'burn buildings' :rolleyes: but as Muslims we shouldn't be supporting a clear munkar.