No such thing as a Swiss Muslim: A Muslim's perspective on banning the Minaret

[Ibtisam]

North and the Point: You are both being short sighted although you both think that waad naga ihdo dheertihin!!

 

The point is not that society is becoming more hostile to anything resembling Islam, it is that we have increased in numbers and more visible as a community within these societies in the last 10-20 years, but we have failed to educate our host communities about who or what we are or make an impact on the decision making arena. So others have done it for us, and the so called hostility is just fear of the unknown. We cannot say people are hostile to anything Islam- because we failed in our duty to tell them or give them an alternative option. When they ban our ritualize or symbolism in their country, we often react in anger by burning flags and ranting on TV like lunatics or moaning about how unfair it is. This in turn enhances this fear and alien Muslims, but we never build the institutions to defend us logically and in the individuals to occupy the relevant places in society and speak for us. What is the use of having a prayer hall or mosques if you do not have the pillars and insititutions to defend what role it places or stands for in our community.

[N.O.R.F]

I am short sighted actually. Slightly fuzzy as well

 

The vote came about after it generated enough signatures for a referendum (not something do-able in most other EU countries). The petition was made, if I recall correctly, because of objections to the application for planning permission to build a mosque with a minaret (the Minaret being the problem).

 

Why would they object to the building of a minaret and not the mosque itself? Because Muslims didn’t educate them or didn’t get involved in politics isn’t the answer (they don’t oppose the mosque and the vote only required a certain amount of signatures). It is the application of the fear factor applied by the right wing that got this whole thing started (see the no campaign's poster).

[Ibtisam]

^^^Norf that is the answer- YOU go and read the “no campaign” literature about the Islamic take over and changing the landscape of the city to mirror Muslims countries, and Political Islam’s along with a bunch of phrases that make no sense together. If there were MUSLIM individuals who were well placed in parliament, the media and the institutions to counter these allegations and explain the basic function of the increasing viability of Islam in these society, then the fear mongering people will not have such huge ignorant audience to preach to.

 

Again look beyond this campaign- this thing started back when the Muslims started to arrive- this banning and all the ones that will follow are just the results and the symptoms of the ignorance starting to manifest. Now we are all in denial blaming the bad bad kuufar for hating us and yad yad ya.

[N.O.R.F]

^I both agree and disagree.

[Ibtisam]

That is because you just feel like arguing with me today! Don't go all Ngonge on me- you know I am right

[N.O.R.F]

Bal kabax meesha

[LayZie G.]

North, why did you hold your tongue for four days?

 

Why did it take you this long to come back with a claim about hostile Swiss, when in reality you are as clueless as your first post?

 

 

I don't mind entertaining you for a little bit but I don't want to engage someone whose own biased blinds him from agreeing with Ibti. (Ps: Stop relying on heresy)

 

Your harsh and anti-Islam stand can be drawn from the following reasons:-

 

A) YOu had no argument then as you have no argument now.(What else could it be, beside you not having an argument? No evidence suggest based on what you have shared here today that you have any clue about what is it you are arguing against and even if you did have an argument, you couldn't express it in a clear and concise tone and lets not forget, you can never back up your heresy, after all they are heresy, abuu abdi and abuu yaxye talked it over at the coffee shop, so you want to spread the same nonsense without factual evidence)

 

B) You were hoping for a different verdict and when that didn't pan out as you would have hoped, which meant you did the next best thing, throw the baseless accusation about hostile Europe back at our faces.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong North and maybe I am but when I initially posted this thread, I made myself very clear by stating my objection to the Minaret. If I can clearly communicate my views on a number of subjects, why can't you (when I say you, I dont mean just you but every last one of you, with the exception of Ibti)?

 

Speaking of ibti, I do agree with her position on issues that concern the Muslim. At the same time, I don't believe that education alone would be sufficient.

 

I think the attitudes of the Muslims have to change as well as educate their fellow non-muslims on issues of importance.

 

However, I do not believe the Minaret is all that important, especially in the middle of naters.

 

Furthermore, the architecture of the Islamic arts in various regions differ with one another. For example, a masjid in Iran would not have the same architecture as one in Iraq. Likewise, one build in China would have some resembles of Chinese architecture and so on and so on.(pay attention to various models of Masjids with Minarets, from ASIA-Africa)

 

Again, if you want to engage in a discussion about the root cause of the ban and Swiss history and religion tolerance in their territory, I would welcome it but I can not entertain people who want to throw fit every-time things dont go their way.(MUSLIMS ARE GUESTS IN SWITZERLAND...the arabs dont cater to fellow muslims in their lands as much as the christian states do cater to muslims in non-muslim lands)

 

I'm just disgusted by that simple fact.......the day you break away from arab mentality, is the day everyone here would agree on issues that AFFECT THE MUSLIMS.....

 

 

PS: What did you mean by muslims 3000 miles away? This muslimah has been to Swiss soil, both in Geneva and Zurich, so do not even attempt to know who has been to parts of Europe and who has not.....understand?

[LayZie G.]

Gabbal, I can see inaad geography(among other things) aad ku liidato, ee please do try your best to contribute to the topic or leave on your own accord.....(SWITZERLAND IS NOT THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA)

 

 

ABTI JOHNNY, lol@your question:

 

Malika,

How many churches , Hundu-temples, Budha-temples are in SAUDI ARABIA ( not mecca )?

Leave Malikah alone........unless ofcourse she comes back four days later with an answer?

[Jacpher]

^What does this have anything to do with Saudia whether Makkah, Medina or Dammaam?

[N.O.R.F]

Here we go.

 

Re-read your posts as well as mine then tell me your message was clearer. I don't think I was the only one left dumb-founded by your initial posts

 

If you wish to discuss the anti-Islam campaign in Europe in depth then let me know. I have no time to walk you through terms of engagement on public forums. You're already showing signs of your usual debating skills (jumping left right and centre without much in the way of substance with personal comments to bridge you). Try again, you was doing so well

[Haatu]

Originally posted by LayZie G.:

quote:

---

Malika,

How many churches , Hundu-temples, Budha-temples are in SAUDI ARABIA ( not mecca )?

Leave Malikah alone........unless ofcourse she comes back four days later with an answer?

Because our religion is the right religion and all those other religions are false, so there is no need to build sanctuaries of disobedience in a Muslim country.

[Jacpher]

Ngonge, France broke it's one laws and values. They now adhere to selective secularism.

North: My sentiment exactly.

 

Saudia did not brake any laws when it disallowed other religious groups to build houses of worship or practice freely on their soil. People like to divert attention elsewhere. Swiss and other Europeans brag about being liberals, tolerant and accepting others yet they don't seem to back that claim up all the way. A non-Saudi citizen couldn't even own property there, if I am not mistaking. Those are Saudi laws in their books. On other hand, Geneva and Paris have religous freedom laws in their books and they should be called on to honor them.

[Che -Guevara]

^Do you guys have anything (Quranic verses or hadith) to back up your assertion about not building temples/churches in Muslim country?

[Haatu]

They should follow their laws word for word and we will follow our word for word. I don't know why some nomads are complaining. The Swiss were the ones that proclaimed themselves to be liberal and tolerant. Why are they going against that now?

[Haatu]

Originally posted by Che -Guevara:

^Do you guys have anything (Quranic verses or hadith) to back up your assertion about not building temples/churches in Muslim country?

Sxb I didn't say it's not allowed in Islam to build temples/churches in Muslim countries, I just said there's no need