Anwar al Awlaki: Speaks the truth shames allying with the enemy

[ANTARA]

^^ waar Awjohhny-yow wat are u babbling about?

 

 

Awlaki takes any alliance with the Kuffar seriously, we need more ppl like him. nonethless, muslims should be greatfull to both as they have enormously contributed to the deen of Allah, may he reward them accordingly.

[Khayr]

Originally posted by -Serenity-:

The issue of siding with the ‘disbelievers’ is a multi-dimensional subject, subject to conditions like

 

1) Situation - are Muslims at war with non-Muslims?

2) If its not a war, is it still a stately issue concerning the Muslim State?

3) If not 1 & 2, is it an issue of faith and practice?

4) If not 1 – 3, it is an individual issue involving a Muslim and non-Muslim? Perhaps dispute over property, personal or criminal? This is where I would severely disagree with the above interpretation. An individual dispute is an individual dispute and must be settled fairly (depending on the governing body of the state, whether Islamic or democratic – unless the latter ruling conflicts with core Islamic beliefs). A crime is a crime. And a crime committed against another human being, whether Muslim or non Muslim is a crime nonetheless.

You know when some of the early muslims didn't make the hijrah and came to the battle field with the quraysh because of fear and they hoped to switched sides during the battle and they lost their lives, Allah came down hard on them for siding with the mushrikeen of Makka.

 

In sura Al Mumtahinah, when a sahabi who faught at the Battle of Badr, told the quraysh the Rasul (salallahu caliyhe wasilm) was going to surround Makkah (Conquest of Mecca) by surpise, for fear that his family who were in Medina would be harmed, Allah became angry at the Sahabi (even when the Rasul ((salallahu caliyhe wasilm) was willing to forgive him).

 

It is an issue of where your heart lies and one sure sign of that is in what one speaks, is in their actions, their desires, their thoughts.

 

 

To side with a criminal ‘Muslim’ brother/sister who has indiscriminately bombed a bus, is a crime against Islam.

Wrong to side with them and wrong to take away their life for a non-muslim. A muslim's life is not equal to a non-muslim's life.

[Ibtisam]

Antara, thanks,

 

Serenity I'll reply to you after you deal with what Khayr has said above.

 

Johnny WHAT?

[Fabregas]

Bismillah al-Rahman al-Rahim

 

It is with much sadness that I read Tawfique Chowdhury's speech to the anti-terrorism officers in Wales, which he brazenly posted on an Islamic blog. I was deeply shocked and appalled by his enthusiasm for collaboration with a body that has failed its own war against Islam and the Muslims at home and abroad. It is deplorable for a graduate from the prestigious Islamic University of the Prophet's city – the first Islamic State – where the subject of 'Aqida is emphasised the most, to declare himself an ally of the West against Islam, not even by choice, but naturally. It is ridiculously outrageous for a Muslim speaker to lure the anti-terrorism officers into using him and other religious leaders against the Muslim community. This is not to say that we should not work to prevent unlawful violence. In fact, many have been at the forefront of this work, without signing a deal with the devil, or joining any sort of alliance, be it natural or otherwise, with the brutal, cunning and oppressive anti-terrorism workforce.

 

In light of this, I urge Tawfique Chowdhury to publicly and unequivocally retract his irresponsible and reckless speech, in order to save himself and his institute from disrepute. The failure in doing so will only reaffirm the public sentiment in the UK that he has clearly taken sides with the enemies of Islam the Muslims. I would also like to take this opportunity to remind the scholars, preachers and Imams that their silence is consent. Tawfique Chowdhury is not the first to fall into disrepute and controversy, and he certainly would not be the last, unless and until they fulfil, and not betray their covenant with Allah, like those of whom Allah makes mention in His Book: "(And remember) when Allah took a covenant from those who were given the Scripture to make it known and clear to mankind, and not to hide it, but they threw it away behind their backs, and purchased with it some miserable gain! And indeed worst is that which they bought."

 

Imam Shakeel Begg of Lewisham and Kent Islaamic Centre

 

lol. more ppl are replying this. including imam shakeel above.

[Ibtisam]

^^^I've seen a number of replies from other esteem shikes. But I've seen others from his institute defending him, but even they stop short of agreeing with him, instead saying it was not his intention and he is a good Muslim, which people don't doubt, but he just needs to correct his words I guess, but if he does the anti terror big dogs will be after him for lying to them or rather will be "mullah does a U-turn in being an ally after pressure from radicals"

[Johnny B]

^ I take that as a somewhat disoriented Ibti going Whauuuuut?! .

 

I was just highlighting on what NGONGE/Serenity & co were calling you on , but in an overall perspective.

 

Point of contention beeing on Where in the ladder of commitment you place loyalty towards others, in this case towards someone who shares a religious belief with you.

 

As pointed by NGONGE/ Serenity & some others , you're cutting a relatively wide loyality-swath just to side with one of the Sheikhs in question, hence the call.

 

To side with someone is a 'moral' judgement, i.e relative matter which can't be applicable to the case of Brother Bokero unless you cut that swath , which you just did in your 1st post.

Wad fahamte nooh?

 

The Examples given by Sheikh Khayr are as usual ....say out of context?.

[Ibtisam]

^^^I don't side with one Sheikh Johnny, because they are on the same side, as even the one being criticized is saying I did not mean what I said in the context you took it in. He just did not say it very well. In fact I expect a speech or written response soon agreeing with all the others.

[Ibtisam]

HERE is the BBC Panorama

 

The Somali Mosque Al Huda, Khalid Yasin and many others are featured as well as the government sponsored project.

[Sir-Qalbi-Adeyg]

Where's the commotion coming from?

 

This seems to be the sum of the shieck's argument and it's something all muslim can/shoul agree with. How does one interpret the following statement as 'allaying with the enemy'. And who exactly is the enemy?

 

As the Gaza events and decades of horror in Muslim lands have shown, terrorism is not an Islamic monopoly. However, what should be of concern to Muslims - is not that ‘islamic terrorism’ is a contradiction in terms, but rather that the term is and has been coined and is being used widely"

[-Serenity-]

Originally posted by Khayr:

quote:

---

To side with a criminal ‘Muslim’ brother/sister who has indiscriminately bombed a bus, is a crime against Islam.

Wrong to side with them and

wrong to take away their life for a non-muslim. A muslim's life is not equal to a non-muslim's life.

But, luckily for the rest of us, the Quran is clear and does not discriminate on taking life.

 

Surah Al-Mâ'idah

32. Because of that We ordained for the Children of Israel that if anyone killed a person not in retaliation of murder, or (and) to spread mischief in the land - it would be as if he killed all mankind, and if anyone saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of all mankind. And indeed, there came to them Our Messengers with clear proofs, evidences, and signs, even then after that many of them continued to exceed the limits (e.g. by doing oppression unjustly and exceeding beyond the limits set by Allâh by committing the major sins) in the land!.

Ibts, there is nothing to debate with Khayr or you. If there is something I've said u disagree with, the onus is on you to point it out & provide the proof. Otherwise, honestly the bigotted and condemning views are a reflection of hypocritical attitudes and nothing more.

[Ibtisam]

^^Hold your horses in your hurry to issue your own condemnation :rolleyes: I merely said I will REPLY to you later. I don't see the worth of debating with you since you are more or less saying the same things that you are so outraged about. In your hurry to distance yourself from what you see as hypocritical attitudes you have your own contradictions to address. Don't worry faaro waweyen baan kuu qoori inshallah. But first you have to understand there is a difference between Muslims and none Muslims in their treatment, the application of principles, the value fo their views particularly with regards to OTHER Muslims. If we don't agree on this basic level, we won't agree on anything else. It is NOT mix and match and take the best view.

 

When you get the time watch the BBC link above it is 30mins.

 

P.s.s. I did not read what Khyra wrote because it was addressed to you, so take it up with him.

 

P.s.s When did you join the crew that posts Quranic verses to "support" your own theories, without the necessary tasfir and context as agreed by the experts.

[Sir-Qalbi-Adeyg]

Originally posted by *Ibtisam*:

But first you have to understand there is a difference between Muslims and none Muslims in their treatment, the application of principles, the value fo their views particularly with regards to OTHER Muslims. If we don't agree on this basic level, we won't agree on anything else. It is NOT mix and match and take the best view.

 

Explain this please, you have me and most likely everyone else utterly confused again.

[-Serenity-]

Ibs, you have enough time to read and post articles ad nauseam on the subject, so gather your thoughts and reply to your might

Originally posted by *Ibtisam*:

[QB] But first you have to understand there is a difference between Muslims and none Muslims in their treatment, the application of principles, the value fo their views particularly with regards to OTHER Muslims. If we don't agree on this basic level, we won't agree on anything else. It is NOT mix and match and take the best view.

Seriously, you have to stop the silly assumptions and get off that high horse. I do know there is a difference on the rulings between how to deal with Muslims who commit crime against other Muslims and Muslims how commit crime against Non-Muslim. But I also know they are both abhorrent and punishable (albeit differently) and are subject to the place and governance in place to carry out that verdict. However the gravity of the sin is demonstrated by the ayah, which is why I posted it.

p.s. I'm always been quick to distance myself from hypocrites and people who use religion as a backdrop to make what is clearly wrong palatable.

[Ibtisam]

^^EDIT: Not you:

 

Jibaaber: It seems Serenity is not confused and got it: But for your benefit, application of rules and treatment of individuals as prescribed in Islam is not equal or the same in Islam for people who believe and those who don’t. I.e. people are treated according to their believe and status, there is no we are all equal and the same regardless of religion.

 

So the thought, views and actions of none muslims are not equal to those of Muslims and you are not required to treat a Muslim person the same as a none-Muslim. There are different set of guidelines and rules which govern each camp; those who believe and those who do not.

 

 

EDIT2:

P.s. I’ve always been quick to distance myself from hypocrites and people who use religion as a backdrop to make what is clearly wrong palatable.

Perhaps you should not be so quick on labeling people hypocrites, I can't comment on these people you are speaking of because you give no details. Do they include me, or someone else on this thread, or you mean the shike you quoted or do you mean a group. If you are throwing general statements around, then sure, I'm glad you distance yourself from hypocrites and people who lie or misuse the deen, you should. :cool:

 

P.s. You know I tried getting off that high horse and stating basic assumptions but then you never know where people stand on certain things, particularly when you cannot decided if they are arguing simply because work is a bit slow today

[Resistance]

I think this debate has run its course and is heading into an area where i doupt many of us has much knowledge so brothers and sisters lets leave it there.