Almost 100 organizations around the globe will protest

[Jacpher]

Originally posted by Socod_badne:

 

Sharia Law is outdated, unfair (chop the hands of one who steals few gallons of water but give manicures to rulers who steals nations entire wealth), and accessory to Islamic living. All one needs to follow the path of Allah is the quran and the teachings of the prophet (scw). Since much of the Sharia law (like 60%) is based on Hadiths, it is not compulsary for muslims to follow it. Further, it is set of laws based on the INTERPRETATION by men of their time and NOT the words of God (most of it). Even those parts that are from the Quran are open to interpretation. Remember there is no single voice for muslims, there is no equivalent of Vatican or the Pope.

I don’t understand what you mean by Sharia is outdated & unfair? Where did you get the 60% figure? Care to elaborate more or give the sources you based on your conclusion? Do you follow Quran as well as the Sunnah of the prophet scw? You don’t need to answer if you want to.

 

I hope you don’t think the corruption & the mischief of Muslims countries (including ours) is due to the adherence of Sharia?

[Bakar]

SB,

 

Good to see u, saxib. I enjoy reading your views despite the fact that you and i stand two opposite end.

 

You said:

 

What laws of Allah say we can't separate religion and state? As far as I know, the Quran which contain the words of Allah, is not a book for modern governments or modern economies or modern medicine or modern militaries...we are FORCED to use laws of modern states to run out countries. In fact this is the reality of all the muslim majority countries .

 

 

SB, I failed to comprehend why a Muslims use theories or some diestic belief advanced by European as a yardstick in measuring human development, while shari` is perceived as inconsequential. If the Qur’an is merely words of Allah and plays no roll in human betterment, then why do we claim to be Muslims?

 

Your statement resonate deism belief--God as being discovered through nature and reason, rejecting revealed religion and its authority over humanity. Hence, can we claim to be be a Muslim whilst distancing the decree of his/her creator?

 

It is immensely crucial to understand the principle behind the notion of religion being separate from state! Also, it is equally imperative to know who were the pioneers or the advocate of secularism and most importantly the state of their society. In other words, what were the political, economical and social setting of their respective society and why religion was perceived as detrimental or stagnant to human progress?

[Baluug]

Socod Badne,I have only skimmed through your various posts about this issue,but the things that stood out were that you said Shariah law is not obligatory for Muslims,that those laws only serve the rich,and that the laws in Canada are perfect. Subxaanallah!!Brother,i advise you to take a shower,say the shahaada,and make toowbah to your Lord,Allah SWT.After that,i advise you to hit the books and find out about what sharia law actually is,and please don't spout bullsh*t because you clearly don't know what you're talking about.

[Us_Marines]

One thing I agree with SB is why don't muslims start the sheriah law in th muslim countries and see how it works? We came to peoples land and we want to change the law of the land.A piece of good advise for the canadian muslims, if the sheria law is rejected and you don't like canada anymore please just go back to whereever you came from.If i am not wrong we all volunterelly came here to the west and left the so called muslim world, and we are asking for sheriah law? Hm!!!! just like i said earlier enforce it in the muslim world first.If it works well believe me the west will adopt it.

[Us_Marines]

Originally posted by Muhammad Howell - Niinka Cadaan:

wow. That's six down, only four to go!

Are you the man at the gate who tells people who is in or out of the religion?can you let me in please?

[Baluug]

Originally posted by Socod_badne:

If a wife refuses to go to Sharia Law court to settle a marriage problem, what will her community think of her? I can bet my life on it that she will be singled out as weak muslim or a bad muslim. Then what becomes of her?

If the wife,or anyone,is only worried about what the community thinks of them and not what Allah SWT thinks of them,they should go to kufaar court,anyway.

[Baluug]

Originally posted by TRUTH_BE_TOLD:

quote:Originally posted by Muhammad Howell - Niinka Cadaan:

wow. That's six down, only four to go!

Are you the man at the gate who tells people who is in or out of the religion?can you let me in please?

Subxaanallah.He tells you xadiis and now you speak to him like he is something he can never be(which is someone who determines who is a muslim and who is not)?Instead,you should be thanking him.Sounds like you're a real jerk,basically,you're perfect for the marines.

[Warrior of Light]

Originally posted by Socod_badne:

Sharia Law is outdated, unfair (chop the hands of one who steals few gallons of water but give manicures to rulers who steals nations entire wealth), and accessory to Islamic living. All one needs to follow the path of Allah is the quran and the teachings of the prophet (scw). Since much of the Sharia law (like 60%) is based on Hadiths, it is not compulsary for muslims to follow it. Further, it is set of laws based on the INTERPRETATION by men of their time and NOT the words of God (most of it). Even those parts that are from the Quran are open to interpretation. Remember there is no single voice for muslims, there is no equivalent of Vatican or the Pope.

There are somethings which can never change with Sharia Law,for example the Quranic decrees. Open any book on Islamic jurisdiction they are the same. The so called Muslim nations though I prefer calling them Arab/middle eastern nations dont follow the shariah instead follow what they desire.Because if they did,Haram would have been Haram to all, equality would have prevailed.

 

You mentioned an example of stealing the shariah court will first listen to the case. See if the crime was hideous as claimed and above the set 'fixed monetary amount (the minimum wage) ' then the sentencing.The Logic of this? The person who has abundance but yet cannot control his desire to steal from another is the one punished. The one who steals under necessity is given a minor punishment and helped to become an able person in the society. We may argue on this fact, where in the world can this person be helped, unfortunately there is no niche which follows the shariah but if it existed. That man would have been a tax payer by the next fiscial year, an able man.

 

The unfortunate thing is that you find those with no power or influence having their hands chopped while the powerful get away with it. The fault isnt with the LAW. Nay, but with the people who are implementing it. Does the law need to be changed No. So many people have been jailed for theft and looting and served time and yet after release they return to their old ways and steal?? Theft is a behavioural disorder which needs to be addressed.

 

We may not have a Pope but if look back in Islamic history. Qadi- rulers of the Courts were self autonomous they ruled by the book, they had the power to correct the leaders.As they had the knowledge and they feared Allah. They knew that the oath they took and whatever decree they make against a soul they will be held answerable to Allah. The Islamic govt never interfered unless a person claimed unfairness.Thats when the case will be re-evaluated by the ruler of the state. And in ruling people you have to appreciate their culture.So yes,in passing judgement the persons culture, age, beleif will be kept into consideration.

 

The problem we are facing is we lack people knowledgable in Islamic Jurispundence and the correct work ethics. If they will work following shariah, by Allah we shall have no problem. But if they take to diviant behaviours e.g bribery and favours then we are in trouble. The second problem we have is Muslims dont even know their basic rights nor religious obligations. So if you dont know what your entitled to how can you ask for your right???

 

And it's total BS to say that Sharia Law, when instituted, is not obligatory. While that technically is true, the reality is different. We, muslims and somalis, know very well of the public and community pressure that mold and guide how we behave towards each other. This is important part of our way of life. No one likes to be seen as community outcast, especially when it comes to religion. If a wife refuses to go to Sharia Law court to settle a marriage problem, what will her community think of her? I can bet my life on it that she will be singled out as weak muslim or a bad muslim. Then what becomes of her?

Intent on matters of religion are between Allah and his servant, thus the person will have to make up their mind. Is it for the glitters of this world or the afterlife?

 

A case which has been conclusive in the shariah law can still be readdressed if the person beleives it wasnt fair. And also family intervention is allowed as the family know better the condition of the person questioned. Mercy can be shown. Those who are favourable can help the weak.

 

If I am to stipulate an example. A grandfather is about to die , he knows that one of his grand daughters is in need of fiancial assistance and according to the shariah what she will inherit not be of help. He can give one third of his property to her as a gift before his death and then whatever remains in his property he writes up and concludes his will.

 

Well I dont see why people are making a fuss of this what people should do is read on Islamic Shariah be accustomed to it. (Instead of relying on he said she said.) And especially that the arbitration were concerning the family laws, which are noble.

 

May Allah make us more knowledgable of our deen.

[Us_Marines]

Originally posted by liibaan:

quote:Originally posted by TRUTH_BE_TOLD:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Muhammad Howell - Niinka Cadaan:

wow. That's six down, only four to go!

Are you the man at the gate who tells people who is in or out of the religion?can you let me in please?

Subxaanallah.He tells you xadiis and now you speak to him like he is something he can never be(which is someone who determines who is a muslim and who is not)?Instead,you should be thanking him.Sounds like you're a real jerk,basically,you're perfect for the marines.

Dude don't act like alittle kid insulting others,if you sweating because i gave you my opinion then you shouldn't be debating and find a place where everyone will agree with you. That man was judging SB that he is out of the diin, at the sametime i will tell you there is a hadith that will tell you can judge or tell anyone that he is out of the religion.yep he was acting like he was a gate's keeper.

I fit in the Marines, bt you fit in the shallow mindes.take you sharieh where it fits.

[Warrior of Light]

Seems like its the order of the day people picking on others,calling names....etcetera where is the notion of fraternity? :mad: :rolleyes:

[Us_Marines]

Originally posted by Warrior of Light:

Seems like its the order of the day people picking on others,calling names....etcetera where is the notion of fraternity?

:mad: :rolleyes:

WOL brother i hate picking on others or someone doing it to me.All i did was expressed my opinion and i had different one than his, because of that i am a jerk.Believe me after i posted my message i asked myself why did i called him shallow mind.I shouldn't have steped that low. sometimes shit happens and my apologies goes to you and the rest of the members that i offend for calling names.

I still stand by my comments seperation od state and religion.this is the million dollar question. Tell me any muslim country that enforce the shariah and have being so far succesfull and people being happy with it? Apparently there is none.This does not mean that the sheriah is not the right law, but some fanatic,extremist and redicules hajicked the religion by chopping the heads and arms of anyone who view things different than them.

 

A very good example in saudi a man killed his wife and the only person who was present was the dead wifes sister.she reported to the local law enforcement.the matter was transfered to family court and they said one woman was not good enough to be a witness.The poor girl lost her sister and the murder is free in the streets probably looking for another woman to marry.if that is the image other see about sheria law, why do you thing they should bring to the west when when muslims in there country can't get it right.if that khadi would use the modern technology (DNA,Finger prints)to proscute that man,probably canandian muslims wouldn't be worried of mrs manji and likes opposing the sheriah law.islamic law is great,but the enforcers are not.so till we find non extemist who can inplement the sheriah law right,please let it stay at the so called muslim countries and i will wish the a good luck.

Mr gate keeper i might be better muslim than you may be you are but like Tupac said only God can judge me but not liiban and his likes.

Peace out

[Warrior of Light]

Apology accepted my brother. And I happen to be a sister.

 

 

Tell me any muslim country that enforce the shariah and have being so far succesfull and people being happy with it?

So far there is no such country (I also commented on that if you read my post). But of the few countries where the Islamic courts are obligatory, Malaysia has one of the best systems in action.

 

if that khadi would use the modern technology (DNA,Finger prints)

You have a point there. Modern technology could be used to solve criminal cases, because of the lack of 4 witnesses are lot of cases are left to rot. But you must also remember modern technology only show you the how, they need to know the source why it happened and sometimes even evidence is tampered with. Anyway,if the case is solved or not we know as Muslims that the person may run from justice on earth but he will face His Lord Inshallah. So patience should be called for.

 

What could be done Shura(council with an agreement)held then maybe some laws maybe changed that is improvising with new technology but still Adil (Justice) should be the only reason for such changes. Wonder when scholars on Islamic jurispundence will do so? And which laws or techniques to be changed another tricky area.

 

What is important though is to know our religion, protect our family, practise our beleifs and try to create a sound community, which is tolerant to others beleif. Minor disagreements can be easily solved if we are all on the same level. So knowledge is the answer.(Important so we have less Rushdies and Irshads)

 

Allah knows better.

[Socod_badne]

Originally posted by Ducaqabe:

I don’t understand what you mean by Sharia is outdated & unfair?

It's outdated because it doesn't provide practical solution to modern problems. Hence, why Sharia Law where practiced has been a failure. Remember the Sharia law was written by man living over 1000 years. Why can't learned muslims of today update it not to change the word of Allah but make it more applicable present issues.

 

I find it unfair principally for not providing mechanisms for how to deal with corrupt leaders. It's well known that in Sharia Law run countries that Wadaads and government officials get away with all sorts of crimes because they are above everyone. Who's to overlook the overseers?

 

Where did you get the 60% figure?

It's relatively accurate figure but don't remember where I read it...just remember reading that somewhere. Most of the Quran doesn't deal with how to run Islamic society...the Quran tells the history of the world, human race, history of the prophets, how the earth was created, jennah, aakhiro, judgement day...if you read the quran you should know this. Further, its open knowledge to any muslim that the primary source of the Sharia Law is the Sahih Hadiths and not the Quran. I know alot of the hadiths are inspired by the Quran but still they are not the words of Allah.

 

Care to elaborate more or give the sources you based on your conclusion?

If I can yes...what do you need sources for?

 

 

Do you follow Quran as well as the Sunnah of the prophet scw?

 

I follow the Quran as commanded by Allah. I pick and choose what to follow of the Sunnah...mainly decide based on what is more in line with the teachings of the Quran and what is not.

 

 

I hope you don’t think the corruption & the mischief of Muslims countries (including ours) is due to the adherence of Sharia?

There are many reasons contributing to the problems in the muslim world but the Sharia Law is not the solution. It had many chances and failed...thus time for new approach.

[Socod_badne]

Originally posted by Bakar:

SB,

 

Good to see u, saxib. I enjoy reading your views despite the fact that you and i stand two opposite end.

Like wise

 

I failed to comprehend why a Muslims use theories or some diestic belief advanced by European as a yardstick in measuring human development, while shari` is perceived as inconsequential. If the Qur’an is merely words of Allah and plays no roll in human betterment, then why do we claim to be Muslims?

We look to the West because the West got it right and we haven't. I'm not saying we should shun our religion and culture for Western ones but that we take from them what has helped them go from being poor, uneducated, uncivilised, barbaric civilisation of the Medieval times to what they are today. There is nothing wrong from learning from other civilisations.

 

Human history is littered with one civilisation learning the trades and tools of another. There would be no advancement if this wasn't the case. Our own religion is perfection of those that preceded it. I find this irrational negative reaction to any mention of looking to the West for solution to our problems as the biggest impediment to the alleviation of our (muslim) problems.

 

Your statement resonate deism belief--God as being discovered through nature and reason, rejecting revealed religion and its authority over humanity. Hence, can we claim to be be a Muslim whilst distancing the decree of his/her creator?

 

Diests believe in God but not any of his prophets or revealed texts. I believe in the Quran.

 

Since I believe in Allah and his texts, I believe what Allah has decreed. But can any earthly person claim to know what that is? I think not...that is why I believe Islam should be private. State and religion should be separate.

 

It is immensely crucial to understand the principle behind the notion of religion being separate from state!

It arose because common sense ppl got fed up with self-professed God's representatives on earth (preists, popes...) abusing the power entrusted upon them by the faithful masses. This is my biggest support for the separation of state and religion...cuz no matter how perfect religion is (which Islam is), ppl at the top enforcing God's laws are fallable human beings who are likely to err. Too many ppl have used the cover of religion to hide their heinous crimes.

[Socod_badne]

Originally posted by liibaan:

Socod Badne,I have only skimmed through your various posts about this issue,but the things that stood out were that you said Shariah law is not obligatory for Muslims,that those laws only serve the rich,and that the laws in Canada are

perfect.

Sharia law is NOT obligatory. Give me Quranic verse saying so.

 

Sharia law does favour the privalaged. Go to any sharia law run country and you'll see what I mean.

 

I NEVER said Canadian laws are perfect. Nothing is perfect.

 

please don't spout bullsh*t because you clearly don't know what you're talking about.

What is it that I said is wrong?