Cartoons: Freedom to Abuse

[Baashi]

Originally posted by Castro:

I'm not so sure you've justified anything but your disdain for Bashir Goth. Ah well, to each his own I suppose.

Look at you imagining things here. I and Bashir simply have a disagreement on this issue. Actually I like the guy's writing style. We also have the same intellectual hobby: Somali poetry. We got something in common there.

 

Addi intee ku cuncuneysa walaalkiis?

[Castro]

^ That was a low blow. Read the Caroll article I just posted. Good enough read to get you to forget the low blow.

[Baashi]

Kix kix here we go again Aight will read that one Insha'Allah. But for crying out loud don't resort to you disdain Bashir crab without qualifying your statements again...if you see holes in my argument just point them out...anything less than that is cantra baqash.

[Castro]

^ Just trying to make your Icelandic stay exciting atheer.

[Castro]

This is the Real Outrage

Amid the cartoon furore, Danish imams ignore the tragedies suffered by Muslims across the world

by Tariq Ali

 

 

The latest round of culture wars does neither side any good. The western civilisational fundamentalists insist on seeing Muslims as the other - different, alien and morally evil. Jyllands-Posten published the cartoons in bad faith. Their aim was not to engage in debate but to provoke, and they succeeded. The same newspaper declined to print caricatures of Jesus. I am an atheist and do not know the meaning of the "religious pain" that is felt by believers of every cast when what they believe in is insulted. I am not insulted by billions of Christians, Muslims and Jews believing there is a God and praying to this nonexistent deity on a regular basis.

 

But the cartoon depicting Muhammad as a terrorist is a crude racist stereotype. The implication is that every Muslim is a potential terrorist. This is the sort of nonsense that leads to Islamophobia.

 

Muslims have every right to protest, but the overreaction was unnecessary. In reality, the number of original demonstrators was tiny: 300 in Pakistan, 400 in Indonesia, 200 in Tripoli, a few hundred in Britain (before Saturday's bigger reconciliation march), and government-organised hoodlums in Damascus burning an embassy. Beirut was a bit larger. Why blow this up and pretend that the protests had entered the subsoil of spontaneous mass anger? They certainly haven't anywhere in the Muslim world, though the European media has been busy fertilising the widespread ignorance that exists in this continent.

 

How many citizens have any real idea of what the Enlightenment really was? French philosophers did take humanity forward by recognising no external authority of any kind, but there was a darker side. Voltaire: "Blacks are inferior to Europeans, but superior to apes." Hume: "The black might develop certain attributes of human beings, the way the parrot manages to speak a few words." There is much more in a similar vein from their colleagues. It is this aspect of the Enlightenment that appears to be more in tune with some of the generalised anti-Muslim ravings in the media.

 

What I find interesting is that these demonstrations and embassy-burnings are a response to a tasteless cartoon. Did the Danish imam who travelled round the Muslim world pleading for this show the same anger at Danish troops being sent to Iraq? The occupation of Iraq has costs tens of thousands of Iraqi lives. Where is the response to that or the tortures in Abu Ghraib? Or the rapes of Iraqi women by occupying soldiers? Where is the response to the daily deaths of Palestinians? These are the issues that anger me. Last year Afghans protested after a US marine in Guantánamo had urinated on the Qur'an. It was a vile act and there was an official inquiry. The marine in question explained that he had been urinating on a prisoner and a few drops had fallen accidentally on the Qur'an - as if pissing on a prisoner (an old imperial habit) was somehow more acceptable.

 

Yesterday, footage of British soldiers brutalising and abusing civilians in Iraq - beating teenagers with batons until they pass out, posing for the camera as they kick corpses - was made public. No one can seriously imagine these are the isolated incidents the Ministry of Defence claims; they are of course the norm under colonial occupations. Who will protest now - the media pundits defending the Enlightenment or Muslim clerics frothing over the cartoons?

 

It's strange that the Danish imams and their friends abroad ignore the real tragedy and instead ensure that the cartoons are now being reprinted everywhere. How will it end? Like all these things do, with no gains on either side and a last tango in Copenhagen around a mountain of unused butter. Meanwhile, in Iraq, Afghanistan and Palestine the occupations continue.

 

Source

[Baashi]

I read them both and indeed both authors have capacity to look both sides of the coin as oppossed to the ones who don't bother to look the other side of the coin. They made good points.

 

As to looking out for me and make my day in what is percieved as cold and lonely Iceland..what you know mze . Nevertheless many thanks amigo.

 

I find Iceland very exciting. Outgoing and easy going Oday Baashi have bonded with locals...I can't wait the summer sxb my macawiss and koofiyo oo feeraysan baan wataa (with disclaimer tag of course )

 

Waryee waan sii caraabayaa ee dee halkaa ka sii miis cantrabaqashka

 

Ciao

[NASSIR]

What a great opinion by Bashir Goth! Thanks Amalia

[Khayr]

Originally posted by Caamir:

What a great opinion by

Bashir Goth!

Thanks Amalia

What was great about HIS OPINION/XAWAINATION?

 

Please do share with us some examples of the Keyboard Orientalist's STUPIDNESS.

 

Originally posted by Ngonge:

 

I can’t really fault the man’s logic. It’s a powerful (though slightly on the long side) piece. I personally thought he was reasonable and controlled. His usual pieces are,

almost always, hard on Muslims

. There is also, usually, an attempt at a ‘fatwa’ or two (his Ramadan piece is a great example). Here however, he dealt with real problems with complete sense, solid logic and exceptional clarity. There was no attempt to ‘allow’ or ‘forbid’ anything. He started by

praising reason and, fortunately enough for him, did not let himself down when it came to his own wisdom.

How in the world did you come up with such thoughts-were you looking at your mirror again saxib?

 

Bashir Goth said:

 

One may be forced to draw an analogue, despite the difference in time and context, between Prophet Muhammad's struggle for freedom of worship in the early days of his call to Islam, and the West’s torturous and bloody journey to earn the freedom of speech they enjoy today.

How in the world can you equate the RISALAH/MESSAGE of the Prophet of ISLAM (salallahu calihe wasilm), His struggle with that of Freedom of speech which stems from a rebellion to the Church and all that was/is SACRED?

 

How does this goooof, Bashir Goth equate the two?

[Khayr]

Were are Bashir Goth's supporters?

[-Serenity-]

^ . Qaraar yuu ku dilin.

 

I wonder what was CW now known as Amelia's reason for posting that article.

Obviously because I thought it was a great article...one which still remains despite ur silly name calling and replies to misunderstood quotes. :rolleyes:

[Khayr]

Originally posted by Amelia:

^

. Qaraar yuu ku dilin.

 

quote:

---

I wonder what was CW now known as Amelia's reason for posting that article.

Obviously because I thought it was a great article...one which still remains despite ur silly name calling and replies to misunderstood quotes. :rolleyes:

Maadhama faarixey iya afka ilaai kuu fuudhadey,

maybe you can explain your points better and help us to understand as to why you thought it was a great article.

 

Surely, you are competent enough to do so.

[Khayr]

Originally post by Zafir in anther thread

 

40,000 rally peacefully against Prophet cartoons in southern Pakistan city Zarar Khan,

 

Canadian Press

Published: Thursday, February 16, 2006

 

KARACHI, Pakistan (AP) - Tens of thousands of people shouting "God is Great!" marched through Karachi on Thursday and burned effigies of the Danish prime minister in Pakistan's latest round of protests over cartoons of Prophet Muhammad.

 

About 5,000 police and paramilitary forces, wearing helmets and wielding guns and shields, were deployed along the three-kilometre route of the rally to prevent the violence that has plagued other protests throughout the country this week, police said. The rally in Karachi ended peacefully and about 40,000 people participated in it, said Shahnawaz Khan, a senior Karachi police officer.

 

Protesters burned Danish flags and also chanted, "God's curse be on those who insulted the prophet." The government ordered educational institutions to close for the day and many shops in the city - a hotbed of Islamic militancy - were shut. Most public transportation did not operate.

 

Shah Turabul Haq, the head of Jamat Ahl-e-Sunnat, the Sunni Muslim group that organized the rally, said the "movement to protect the prophet's sanctity will continue until the pens of the blasphemous people are broken and their tongues get quiet."

 

He demanded the government expel ambassadors of countries where newspapers published cartoons of the Prophet. Another cleric, Mufti Munibur Rahman, called for a boycott of products from those countries, and called for world bodies like the United Nations to treat "attacks" on the Prophet's sanctity as a crime.

 

Pakistan's President Gen. Pervez Musharraf and visiting Afghan President Hamid Karzai on Wednesday appealed for European and other western countries to condemn the cartoons, saying freedom of the press did not mean the right to insult the religious beliefs of others.

 

The drawings were first published in a Danish newspaper in September and later reprinted by other media, mainly in Europe. Many Muslims regard any depiction of the Prophet Muhammad as blasphemous. One of the drawings depicted the prophet with a turban shaped like a bomb.

 

On Wednesday, a protest by more than 70,000 Pakistanis in the northwestern city of Peshawar dissolved into deadly riots by stone-throwing and gun-wielding youths, who targeted foreign businesses.

 

The unrest followed similar riots Tuesday in Lahore, where U.S. and other western business properties were vandalized and the provincial legislators' assembly set on fire.

 

Five people have been killed in protests in Pakistan this week.

 

Ameer ul-Azeem, a spokesman for United Action Forum, an opposition coalition of religious parties that have organized most of the protests in Pakistan, said television footage of violent attacks by protesters on embassies in other countries had prompted Pakistanis to do the same.

 

He appealed for people to avoid violence in more demonstrations the coalition plans for later this month, but didn't expect people to follow his advice. "At least, there will be one violent protest in every village, town and city," he said.

 

 

[Haaraahur.]

Baashi

You have been blessed with a piercing insight. I agree with your analyses though I am unable to express them as eloquent as you have. The strength of orientalists has always been articulacy not truth and coherency.

 

Markay luuqada kaaga hiiliso ciil badanaa!

[Khayr]

The strength of orientalists has always been articulacy not truth and coherence.

I would add that their strength is in having control via MASS PRINT, MASS MEDIA and their point is by spreading doubt and confusion by INDOCTRENATING people through IMAGES via newspapers, t.v. news, magazines etc.

 

Case in point 9/111, no matter how many theories to negate it, the MASS people have been INDOCTRENATED to equate 9/111 with MUSLIMS.

 

This goes back to Literary Theory.

[NASSIR]

Kheyr, I just liked his opinion and there are elements of truth of what he said. Here is a critique by Ismaciil Ali Geeldoon.

 

 

HOMILY OF A DEVIL’S ADVOCATE: A RESPONSE TO BASHIR GOTH

 

 

Ismail Ali Ismail

February 19, 2006

 

 

Bashir Goth has tried in his article "Cartoons put a great religion to the test" (WardheerNews.com, 10 February, 2006) to be too clever by half and has in the process laid bare both the bankruptcy of his argument and his malevolence towards Islam and Moslems. The very title of his article is of course offensive to Moslems and is indicative of a schizophrenic-personality approach to treating an important and burning issue: ‘important’ because it has brought to the fore how the West and The Moslem World see each other, and ‘burning’ because it is topical but, literally, too hot an issue to play with. Islam is too great a religion to be tested by idiotic cartoons drawn by an evil person and promoted by the diabolical others who propound a boundless and therefore mindless freedom of expression. The writer would have been probably justified to choose as the title of his article words which would have reflected the view that the cartoons put the tolerance of Moslems to the test. But he chose to drag Islam into his diatribe against Moslems – a diatribe which leaves little doubt that the writer is attacking Islam itself in a roundabout way.

At the outset the writer praises Islam as a religion only to hide his contempt for it which becomes apparent in later passages. The schizophrenia is all the more clearer when he first speaks as a Moslem (e.g. “My brothers and sisters…†and then later†As Muslims we may claim…†and finally, “My fellow Muslims,â€) and then in many other passages as a non-Moslem (e.g., “The holy Qur’an is said to be the greatest miracle.†“Muslims believe that….†and “…I find it beyond my understanding why Muslims always drag Jews and the holocaust into…â€). In making few quotations from the Qur’an and by dropping few names of Moslem scholars he poses as someone who commands a good knowledge of Islam even though he had been previously exposed and castigated as a mere charlatan. But it seems that he never learnt his lesson. A learned Moslem knows full well that the Qur’an is not only a linguistic miracle but also a continuing miracle in the sense of having revealed scientific facts which Muhammad could not have known on his own but which become apparent with the efflux of time and in the light of scientific discoveries. Any Moslem who has familiarized himself with the life history (Sierah) of the Prophet would acknowledge the many miracles which the contemporaries and disciples of the Prophet witnessed on a day-by-day basis and attested to.

 

Bashir Goth states by implication ,and rightly so, (we have to give the devil his due) that we should have, in reacting to those evil cartoons, shown patience and restraint as the Prophet did when he himself suffered the indignities which were heaped upon him by his own kith and kin. Islam enjoins patience and forbearance upon us in the face of adversity and we have been told to emulate the Prophet whose character was moulded by the Almighty as the best example to follow. But to us ordinary freaks his character is inimitable. We are neither prophets nor saints. Prophets are of a different mould. When A’isha was asked about the character of the Prophet she replied that “ His character was the Qur’anâ€; and the Almighty has also told us in the Qur’an to exercise patience. In Aal Imran (verse 133) we are told that “righteous†are: “Those who spend (freely) whether in prosperity or in adversity; who restrain their anger and pardon all people; for Allah loves those who do goodâ€. In Ashoura (verse No. 37) it is stated: “Those who avoid the greater sins and indecencies; and when they are angry even they forgive.†Certainly therefore we have been told to suppress our rage.

 

Christians have similarly been told to “turn the other cheekâ€. But, do they? And we have all been told by our respective religions not to kill, not to steal, not to commit adultery, not to bear false witness, etc. But do we, as human beings, follow these instructions? I think the answer is obvious. But, Bashir Goth needs to learn something about human nature and should see Moslems as ordinary human beings who commit transgressions and crimes like everyone else, who fight each other in their own countries and set their mosques on fire just as Christians do to their churches. Admittedly, some of these heinous acts are committed in the names of religion. But to blame these acts or the maledictions of some priests on a particular religion can only be an attempt to turn that religion on its head. The prophets are long gone and saints, if any such there are, are few. Therefore to single out Moslems and castigate them for expressing their rage in a very graphic manner while extolling what the writer sees as the “virtues†of the West is glaringly prejudicial. It is a mark of our times that virtues have been turned into vices and vices into virtues and some of us see this as modernization. A philosopher once said: “Man is a moral amphibian; he has a higher nobler nature, and he has a lower animal nature.†Bashir Goth can see Moslems only in their lower animal nature while he sees the West in its higher nobler nature. I do not wish to follow his suit by excoriating the followers of other religions - or the West for that matter – in order to show him the historical facts of their vile deeds. I should now like to answer some of his other statements which are at once startling and revealing.

 

He states: “… the Danish people have the right to behave the way they want to behave on their own turf.†If we apply the logic of his statement to Moslems behaving as they wish in their own countries would it not justify the kind of behaviour he is condemning in Moslems? Elsewhere, he says: “There is no doubt that the extremist groups that have hijacked Islam long ago have also hijacked the cartoon crisis.†First, Islam has not been hijacked, for it is still there. Secondly, to call criminal elements as “Moslem extremists†is an affront to Islam - a religion of peace which does not condone the killing of innocent people, wonton destruction of property, and burning of flags. As to his statement that Moslems lack the virtue of self-criticism which the West is “ blessed with†Bshir Goth will best be advised to educate himself and read the various books and listen to series of lectures which Moslem scholars give on the Iqr’a satellite channel and even on Aljazeerah in order to see the virtuous Moslems who denounce day and night the violence that has taken place, the killing of innocent people, the burning or destruction of embassies, beheadings and threatening diplomats who are accredited to and are guests of their countries. Many Moslems have condemned in the strongest possible terms the attack on the Twin Towers, but those who want to paint Islam as a religion of mindless and indiscriminate violence will cite, like Bashir Goth, the work of some rotten apples (who also kill Moslems) as an example of virtuous Moslem religiosity. And if Bashir Goth finds it beyond his comprehension “why Muslims always drag Jews and the holocaust into the agenda whenever they have a debate with the Christian world†(emphasis mine) it is only because he wants to convey a distorted picture of Islam. I do not know if and where Moslems and Christians sat together and discussed bilateral issues. But Moslems have recently pointed to the duplicity of the West which made it criminal to deny the holocaust but would not do the same for blatant and willful characterization of their holy prophet on flimsy grounds of freedom of expression. Nowhere in the world is the freedom of expression unlimited; otherwise, law as an instrument of social control would be redundant and there would be no place for laws of slander and libel. So to say to Moslem that any person is free to offend them and insult their prophet in the name of freedom of expression is foolish, irresponsible and contemptuous of the inevitably ugly consequences.

 

But Bashir Goth says many other things which show further his contempt for Moslems and Arabs. It is evident that he harbors a grudge against the Arabs whatever the reason may be, for he says out of the blue that they had a ‘big hand’ in the slave trade and he wonders, symptomatically, “what the life of the Arab people in the petro-dollar Gulf countries would have been today without the West exploring and bringing out oil and gas for themâ€. It is ludicrous to suggest that the West was so altruistic that they prospected for oil in the Middle East out of love for the Arabs. Bashir Goth should ask himself, instead, what the state of Western industry and civilization would have been like without the oil of the Middle East, and why the West is so prepared to protect this vital resource with its own blood. Furthermore, he scoffs of Moslems finding satisfaction in new conversions to Islam as he says: “It is not uncommon to read reports in newspapers from Arab and Islamic world on Islam spreading in the West like a fire on a windy day. They talk with glee about European women converting to Islam in their hoards. In fact most of such reports come from Muslims living in the West. With such vitriol rhetoric and with the stereotype of the few Europeans converted to Islam turning their back on the norms and values of their home countries, changing their attire and adopting an alien look and attitude, it is just natural for the Western people to feel their values and their free speech were under threat.†(Emphasis mine). These words surely cannot be the words of a Muslim as they are, plainly and simply, an attack, not only on Moslems who pride themselves on the swelling of their ranks but also a blatant and unwarranted denunciation of those westerners who convert to Islam. Incidentally, reports of such conversions originate with the western media: in fact I read about them in The Economist and the BBC website.

 

As if given a monopoly of the truth and as though he just discovered it Bashir Goth states: “My brothers and sisters, truth hurts and I am hell bound today than any time before to tell the truth.†Well, by letting us read the truth between the lines he has revealed to us his true colors and his true faith; for that we should perhaps be grateful . And he says he is hell-bound. I personally would not want to go in that direction.

 

Ismail Ali Ismail

E-Mail:geeldoonia@gmail.com