Women are inferior to men in the Quran..is it true?

[RendezVous]

Volume 8, Book 81, Number 778:

Narrated 'Aisha: Usama approached the Prophet on behalf of a woman (who had committed theft). The Prophet said, "The people before you were destroyed because they used to inflict the legal punishments on the poor and forgive the rich. By Him in Whose Hand my soul is! If Fatima (the daughter of the Prophet ) did that (i.e. stole), I would cut off her hand."

[RendezVous]

Originally posted by The Flipmode:

quote:Originally posted by naden:

Pi,

 

I stand corrected, God did decree the cutting of hands. I still believe it is barbaric and suitable for that society.

did u EVER

Question Why that Barbaric Shariah

was revealed by the

Holy Quraan

,...

 

so in other words, you are saying..

 

The Holy Quraan Is faulty

coz it was the Quraan that prescribed.It was a verse in the Holy Quraan.

I think some of this information will help some of our brothers and sisters who are in doubt of the Shariah

 

 

CUTTING THE HAND OF THE THIEF

Question:

 

Could you please tell me under Islamic law, is the punishment for stealing, the cutting of hands?

 

Are any factors considered before such punishment is dealt? i.e. witnesses, persistent criminals, the criminal’s circumstances etc.

 

Would a mother, under difficult circumstances, who steals to feeed her hungry baby, receive the same punishment?

 

Answer:

 

In the Name of Allah, Most Compassionate, Most Merciful,

 

The different penalties prescribed by Shariah is not in order to inflict harm on people and make them suffer, rather the Shariah concept for imposing penalties for the various crimes is that they prevent harm, destruction and anarchy in the society. They are not prescribed in order to harm people, but the contrary.

 

Allah Most High says:

 

"In the law of retaliation there is (saving of) life to you, O you men of understanding" (Surah al-Baqarah, 179).

 

Due to the idea behind these various penalties being imposed not to make an individual suffer, rather to create a better society as a whole, the Shariah laid down certain strict rules and conditions in order for the punishment to be established or enforced. These strict conditions can be seen in all the various penalties that have been imposed.

 

The case with theft and stealing is the same in that certain conditions have been laid down for the penalty to be imposed. If the conditions are met, only then will such a penalty be enforced.

Source of the Question and answer

[Socod_badne]

Flipmode,

 

Help me with something. This Iraqi Shia dude tells me that in Islam woman's testimony is worth half that of a man. Something I already knew but he goes on to say that in instances of adultry where you need 4 witnesses, where only women witnesses are available you'll need 8. Is that true. Flipmode, the great Islamic luminary, help this brother dude.

[Khadir]

Socod_badne=

Help me with something. This Iraqi Shia dude tells me that in Islam woman's testimony is worth half that of a man. Something I already knew but he goes on to say that in instances of adultry where you need 4 witnesses, where only women witnesses are available you'll need 8. Is that true. Flipmode, the great Islamic luminary, help this brother dude.

The four witnesses are required for adultry, not eight! if four women are present then its four women, if a mix of men and women, then they are four. The only time the rule of two women for every one male witness is allowed is for debt contracts( business), because women were less skilled in those matters. Remember Allah is always clear, the ayats concerning adultry and debt contracts are seperate. And Allah makes distinction when he refers to the number of witnesses for each case.

 

witnesses For Debt contracts:

In debt contracts Allah is clear, there is always detail where it is necessary.

[ [2.282] O you who believe! when you deal with each other in contracting a debt for a fixed time, then write it down; and let a scribe write it down between you with fairness; and the scribe should not refuse to write as Allah has taught him, so he should write; and let him who owes the debt dictate, and he should be careful of (his duty to) Allah, his Lord, and not diminish anything from it; but if he who owes the debt is unsound in understanding, or weak, or (if) he is not able to dictate himself, let his guardian dictate with fairness; and call in to witness from among your men two witnesses; but if there are not two men, then one man and two women from among those whom you choose to be witnesses, so that if one of the two errs, the second of the two may remind the other; and the witnesses should not refuse when they are summoned; and be not averse to writing it (whether it is) small or large, with the time of its falling due; this is more equitable in the sight of Allah and assures greater accuracy in testimony

 

Witnesses For Adultry:

4.15] And as for those who are guilty of an indecency from among your women, call to witnesses against them four (witnesses) from among you; then if they bear witness confine them to the houses until death takes them away or Allah opens some way for them

 

In the arabic, Allah refers to the adultry witnesses in plural form meaning four witnesses either females or males or mix.

[Hayat]

flipmode: why all these posts dealing with women and the status of women?(even if your latter stance was accurate). surely it would give you more creadibility of you were a woman?

[Socod_badne]

Originally posted by Khadir:

The four witnesses are required for adultry, not eight! if four women are present then its four women, if a mix of men and women, then they are four. The only time the rule of two women for every one male witness is allowed is for debt contracts( business), because women were less skilled in those matters. Remember Allah is always clear, the ayats concerning adultry and debt contracts are seperate. And Allah makes distinction when he refers to the number of witnesses for each case.

That is exactly what I thought, he of course disagrees. Thanks anyways.

[NaaiMa]

You know... I remember reading that shariah law should only be implemented in society if everything else Allah (swt) has commanded us to do; is also being done.

 

For example; it wouldn't be right to cut of a mans hand for stealing if zakaat is not also being collected the community. Because if zakat is being collected, and all the proper instutions are in place, the man would not have needed to steal anything... You can't just pick and choose what aspects of shariah you would want to implement...its kind of an all or nothing thing.

 

I think. lol. Let me go look this up...uno momento por vavor

[Khalaf]

Asslaamu Alaykum,

 

First, the question: are women equal to men in the Qu’ran? Nacaam, without a doubt. Such a question is prevalent among people today because the lack of knowledge in the deen, in-fact islam has taken burden off the woman and put it on the man. There is no system/religion/ideology in this world that will ever honor a woman and endow her with greater rights then The One Who Created Her, who knows better then Allah? Her rights are in plain Arabic in the Glorious Qu’ran its up to her to educate herself so that man will not abuse it.

 

 

Second, I have to say I am very disappointed as Muslim to hear my fellow Muslims utter statements like this:

 

• i'm not going to come right out and say shariah is faulty, i think it could not be applied to this day and age, with the current people living in the world. i think shariah law could only work and only worked at the time of the prophet (PBUH) and the Khalifah. Anything after that you only have to read history to see shariah rule, due to different understanding of it become Disaster rule! Shariah allows too much flexibility in its nterpretations, so that any tom and dick could justify his actions using his version shariah laws. It is these different interpretations that cause the problems as well as dishonest Muslims, crooks and power hungry people who see Islamic laws as a way to do want they want without people asking difficult questions.

 

 

My dear brothers and sisters, there is no need to call each other names first, because we see comments like this which are do to ignorance of our religion and our history and the lack of resources which inform us of that history. By no means will I try to tackle shariah, figh if you are not knowledgeable you should keep shut since more harm will be done then good.

 

when people say shariah is limited to the time of the Prophet(pbuh) and the Khalifah, and that shariah is outdated, didn’t our Lord Say:

 

This day, I have perfected your religion for you, completed My favor upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion. [5:3]

 

"Say! Do you know better than Allah?" (2:140).

 

Does bani-adam and our limited knowledge and experiences know better then the Creator? When you look at history, sure there is more technology, and scientific advances now, but human morality/characteristics have not changed much.

 

Islam is for all times, as is the Divine law. Lets not our limited knowledge make us transgress against ourselves, the Plan of Allah will come to pass-as human beings we just think about the present, forget about the past, and let the present predict the future. When shariah is mentioned people talk about cutting hands, or stoning the adulterer, and how there is many interpretations ect. All this has been unanimously mentioned by our scholars, so talk to knowledgeable people, I would relate it but I fear that I make a mistake due to lack of knowledge.

 

But in my view, I think we must look back at the best community ever raised up in mankind-the companions of the Prophet (sallAllaho alaihi wasallam). And ask ourselves why they were successful to structure a society full of justice, prosperity, humanity, equality, honor, truth-a historical fact that not even the biggest enemies of Islam can deny. The system of government they have implemented has been copied and reused by other civilizations-namely the West. Why? Because they had firm sincere faith in Allah and His messenger, which we don’t today. Shariah will only work successfully in modern country, only when and if we perfect our iman, since islam is perfect. If not, then we have failed our covenant with Allah, and better a generation will be raised to carry out this timeless universal message.

[Khadir]

AbdulNoor=

When shariah is mentioned people talk about cutting hands, or stoning the adulterer, and how there is many interpretations ect. All this has been unanimously mentioned by our scholars, so talk to knowledgeable people, I would relate it but I fear that I make a mistake due to lack of knowledge.

first, thank you brother for your lengthy clarification. Second, I totally agree with your advice to seek more knowlegde in matters that seem disputed in islam. However, i will add that shariah does differ from the quran in few areas. It is troubling sometimes that stoning is found no where in the quran....also in the Bible, Jesus comes to condemn the old jewish practice of stoning. In such a case, it possible that the muslim ummah may have problems with the absolute validity of the Shariah Law. Is Shariah divine law? that is disputed.

 

Islam is for all times, as is the Divine law. Lets not our limited knowledge make us transgress against ourselves, the Plan of Allah will come to pass-as human beings we just think about the present, forget about the past, and let the present predict the future.

Islam today largely consists of other sources of knowlegde, it is not all divine Law. To say that islam is divine law would mean all aspects of islam is dictated by the Kitab thus equal to Divine law, but this is not the case.

[RendezVous]

Originally posted by Khadir:

Islam is for all times, as is the Divine law. Lets not our limited knowledge make us transgress against ourselves, the Plan of Allah will come to pass-as human beings we just think about the present, forget about the past, and let the present predict the future.

Replied by a nomad like,

 

Islam today largely consists of other sources of knowlegde, it is not all divine Law. To say that islam is divine law would mean all aspects of islam is dictated by the Kitab thus equal to Divine law, but this is not the case.

I agree to disagree, I think our brother mentioned that Islam itself is divine and pure as Allah Himself said in his QURAAN

 

This day,

I have perfected your religion for you

, completed My favor upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion. [5:3]

But our own ways of life in the 21st Century has been tampered with until you may feel that ISLAM ain't that divine anyways.NO, it is because Muslims nowadays don't stick to their Five pillars of ISLAM.No value for time of prayers, Zakaat is not adjusted accordibgly, No wonder we have lots of economical problems (coz Allah himself is not HAPPY with the way we are not following HIS words.) Many People have started doubting and questioning ISLAM even without making elaborate research.The companions of the prophet(The Sahaaba)RA used to ask the prophet anything they feel like until they get a satisfactory answer which we are not doing anymore.If you think you have a slight problem, you go barking like the way AYAAN HIRSI did before she was shown the TRUTH OF ISLAM and started getting silent again on her favourite "There are no rights for women in ISLAM"

 

Only when Muslims go back to the drawing board,I mean go back to the real meaning of the HOLY BOOK, The Quraan, that is the time ISLAM will be divine. Some of us are EVEN wondering If they are muslims or not

 

So now, are there some nomads who are saying that GOD didn't reveal the Truth?

 

"Say! Do you know better than Allah?" (2:140).

NOTE TO ALL NOMADS,

 

There is a verse in the HOLY QURAAN which says,

 

Suratul Talaaq verse 4

 

"...and whosoever fears Allah and keeps his duty to Him, He will make his matter easy for him".

and

 

Suratul Talaaq verse 7

 

"...Allah puts no burden on any person beyond what He has given him. Allah will grant after hardship, ease.

[Ibtisam]

abdul_noor

 

Please reread what i have written. Despite the fact you have used it to support you thread, you somehow missed the point altogether.

 

As for you disappointment, really and truly i could not give two toss, if i did say something wrong, its God and his punishment i should surely be worried about not your opinion of me!

 

The point I made in my thread, is that Shirah Law could only work, if the correct interpretations are followed, if it is operated by obedient, God fearing individuals, whose only interest and aim is to please Allah. We do not have enough of these people in today’s society, my opinion in this case is that anyone claiming to be following shirah has other interest and gains that it wants to achieve via practicing shirah.

I have talked about the practice of shirah and not else.

towards the end of your post you say the same thing as above, which i don't have a problem with

 

 

Flip- again you are jumping to conclusion, throwing quotes about does not aid anyone in understanding. i didn’t hear (read) anyone saying that God did not revel the truth, so don't put words into people's mouth while trying to make yourself colourful. Even if some did say that (which i can't find) surely a better way to approach them will be ask their reasons and explain things in a better manner, not throw random verses at them!

 

 

cheers

[Mr.Faarax]

I read somewhere this and made me think...

 

"Muslims nowadays cannot conceive of behaving like the companions and they will claim that "times have changed" and "we are living in a different reality today". It is definitely true that the standard of living has changed over the years. That, though, does not seem to be the root cause of the difference. It is inconceivable to think that the companions would live the way we are living today because "times have changed but because the people and their priorities and goals have changed. So many Muslims have changed to such an extent that they have difficulty even conceiving of living with the same goals and priorities as those of the companions."

 

maybe that sheds the light' why the shariah is not followed completely.....

[RendezVous]

Originally posted by Digaale:

I read somewhere this and made me think...

 

"Muslims nowadays cannot conceive of behaving like the companions and they will claim that "times have changed" and "we are living in a different reality today". It is definitely true that the standard of living has changed over the years. That, though, does not seem to be the root cause of the difference. It is inconceivable to think that the companions would live the way we are living today because "times have changed but because the people and their priorities and goals have changed. So many Muslims have changed to such an extent that they have difficulty even conceiving of living with the same goals and priorities as those of the companions."

 

maybe that sheds the light' why the shariah is not followed completely.....

This is what they call The 21st Century where our life is totally different from that of the Companions(Sahabas),

 

1.People don't pray or pray at will, they say we are busy like in a meeting.Prayers is just 25 minutes the whole 24hours.

 

2.Zakaat is Never paid, we even take interest from banks let alone zakaat.

 

3.We love music, that sing about illicit behaviours, The Hip Hop dances thinking that is modernity.

 

4.We club and drink and even gamble, take our children to play close to us in malls, showing them how to "waste" themselves instead of "Moulding them" to be good muslims.

 

5.Muslim Women are "advised" to seek their rights to wear semi nude to show off their privacy, women are liberated and sold together with various items like spoons as if they are not Human while Still calling that "freedom and liberation", human rights

 

6.Sex is free they say, There is no meaning of marriage.Homosexuality and gay is like a religion, Swingers and Wife swapping have been given a 21 st century invention.Women make abortion, strippers on loose, virgins are wasted and thrown out of the house by a nightstand.Let me stop before I vomit..

 

7. Some people go for Hajj like tourism

 

8. Others who NEVER studied ISLAM or know about ISLAM become stars by "Abusing and talking BAD of ISLAM" and they say that is Freedom of expression..

 

9. People kill and make terrorism ISLAM, There is no where Sahaabas made any terrorism.Everything they were doing was self defense.

 

Never did the prophet companions did all that.Never shall we do that.Even if life changes..you can't claim, you will join the life of Sinners Even if it is the 21st Century.

 

Islam has provisions to subdue all that.

 

Islam in the 21st Century

 

and

Islam, Humanity and the 21St century

 

Know your religion and then try to fit it to the 21st Century by reading those links..

[Ibtisam]

^there is always a middle Ground. It would be nice to see the world in black and white, but maybe you should look closer at the grey bits. :rolleyes:

[Khalaf]

Salaam

 

ibtisam I have reread your original post, and still sister it seemed to me like you were saying shairah worked only in the past and is not suitable for our time. However in the later post you have clarified your position and we both agree. As for disappointment my sister, it was towards the comment nothing personal towards you. You are 100% right Allah is the Only Judge, and Who is better Judge then Your Creator. But my dear sister as Muslims, as human beings we should call each other to truth and learn from each other-that is why we are here after all right.

 

And as for Muslims not adopting shairah in 21st century or there is too many interpretations, my view is that Islamic system has already been interpreted and lived by not only by millions of people across the globe under one law but exemplified by a massive state full of justice and prosperity-the Kalifah. Just study the history of Islamic civilization-no doubt about the great achievements and success it has brought to humanity. Morality of human beings has not changed-shairah is relevant for all times-the problem is where is the community that can uphold it. I think in the current times the Muslims live like the meccan period of our nabi saw. We have no state, we are oppressed, weak. We are great in number, but weak in iman-so we must build that iman make it stronger, unite our hearts, strictly follow the Quran, go back to the basics and after that we can move onto to the medina stage-which is the establishment of shairah in de res salaam.

 

The punishments of shairah that get much attention such as cutting of the hands, stoning the one who commits adultery while married, ect. If we look back at the Qu’ran will see the incredible difficulty to carry out these punishments. For example and people can correct me, in Islam there is duty to establish zakat system to help the poor and feed your neighbor. The implementation of this system will solve the problem of stealing due to poverty, and if this system is cheated, and society fails its duty the punishment can not be carried out. Our nabi (saw) has said: "He is not a believer who eats his fill while his neighbor remains hungry by his side" (Baihaqi). For fornication and adultery, again extremely hard nay impossible to have four people witness two people committing this act, lets say hypothetically this did happen if the accused swear by God as there witness the punishment can not be carried out. When ever this punishment was carried out (very very rare) during the time of our nabi (saw) it was because the accused confessed to their sins. The laws of our Lord is most merciful to the human being-Allah Alone is Rahman.

 

As one of the sahabah has said: Islam summons] mankind from the lowliness of the earth to the heights of the heavens, from the servitude of each other to the service of the Lord of the Universe, and from the oppression of the religions to the justice of Islam."

 

Khadir No believer disputes the validity/divinity of Allah’s Law. Allah commands us if there dispute refer to the Qu’ran and the Messenger (Sunnah). As Muslims we shouldn’t use our whims, or philosophical reasoning of man to establish justice in society that is why we see all this fitnah in our world.