A question: Somali clans claim of being Arab...

[me]

Originally posted by General Duke:

I have to give the Sharif his credit, he is sticking to his guns.

 

In my mind there is no doubt that we have Arab blood, but I am not sure how accurate the historical account of our fore fathers are.

 

Even Imam Ahmed Ibrahim is claimed to be an ARAB, and his Jihad was led by Arab/Somali's. This is 500 years ago, and in the Futuh Alxabasha, the Somali clans are all mentioned except fora few.

And what does this prove, how does this contribute to the discussion? If you wanted to make a point, please make it. Because I don't see the point your making and its relevance to the discussion.

 

How does Axmed Guray being relate to whole Somali clans being Arabs.

 

Btw. No one is denying that Arabs have visited Somalia, traded with Somalis or even have lived in Somali cities. What we are discussing is if there is any truth in some Somali clans being Arabs. In the Futuh Al-habasha, are they saying that the Somali clans are Arabs or are they saying SOMALI CLANS, are they discussing the ancestory of the Somalis in those accounts? If not whats its relevance to the current discussion?

 

Somalis are not Arabs that should be clear by now.

 

Evidence for Somalis not being Arabs:

-DNA

-Linguistic evidence

-Abtirsiyo khaldan

 

Evidence for Somalis being Arabs:

-Hear say

-Myths

-My ayeeyo told me

[Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar]

Evidence for Somalis being Arabs:

-Hear say

-Myths

-My ayeeyo told me

 

Me, runtii, dadkaan know as certain as their existence that inay Carab waxba iskaga galin, iskaba dhaaf faracnimo, ka ahayn Xaawo iyo Aaden.

 

Of course Soomaalida Carab waa ku jirtaa -- they are called Banaadiri, Reer Xamar ugu horeeyo, who took great leaps to Soomaalinize themselves, beginning with clans with Soomaali names. And yet we have the madoowest of madoow of Soomaalis in general claiming Carab and other bogus, unsubstantiated legends and myths.

 

Soomaali language does share a lot of words with afka Hindida, yet I have yet to see a Soomaali claiming descending from the historical Hindiya. [Perhaps they exist, and I hadn't seen them -- actually their credibility is certainly more plausible than Carab lineage since there seems a lot Soomaalis who do look like Tamils.]

 

C/llaahi Yuusuf recently said Soomaalida inay 'garac' yihiin iyo in kale lama kala yaqaano. He is, of course, wrong.

 

Soomaalida waa dad jiray, dad jiri jiray, oona jiray waligood, but unfortunately dad kamid ah kalsooni isku qabin in their inferior mentality and who couldn't dispel what they hold in dear, si walba ha loogu sheegee ama loogu sharxee ama loogu tusiyee, what awoowe said always ka horeeyo the reality. Since it is human nature, I don't blame awoowe or ayeeyo, since iyagaba kasoo maqleen their awoowe and ayeeyo.

 

However, in this enlightened and informational age, where knowledge can easily be accesed, it is fitting and time to put the hammer on the final nail on the coffin of this chronic self-identity crisis and myth -- for once and all.

 

Glad to see, though, finally we are realizing and separating the fact from fiction.

 

Mansa Musa, ha i dhihin adigana kuwa Carabta aaminsan aa tahay. I hope not!

 

NB -- Shisheeye badan ayaa aqriyo meeshaan ee Soomaaliyeey ceebtiina asturta, waxa qaarkiin soo qoreysiin anaga dhexdeena ayeeba yaxyax iyo yaab naga keentay.

[Castro]

And the "shisheeye" that goes through the trouble of reading this forum would have difficulty finding someone to translate the above?

__________________

 

Mar sadexaad raali ahoow. Intaas ayaan ka save gareeye, oo waa soo qori kartaa waxa maqan.

 

[ September 18, 2006, 05:02: Message edited by: Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar ]

[Gabbal]

Me-

 

Why is it important to you what people claim? Secondly how did you translate as having some sort of Arab blood or descending from Arabs as being Arab today?

 

I think to everyone, their opinion. These people on a crusade, particularly those that do not belong to tribes that claim Arab descent, seem to be the most vocal for..? Psychology would say the problem is from within.

 

So who ever wants to claim whatever, thats their business, no one is on a crusade to change your beliefs so stop stressing and trying to change other's beliefs.

 

Waa talo.

[Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar]

Ooooobis, raali noqo duqa. Damn. "Edit" aa taabtay, meeshaa "quote" ka rabay, mana ogeyn. Aad aan ugu xumahay.

 

Waa kusoo celin kartaa hadaa rabtid, kuweyga intaa ku qoraa.

 

Raali mar labaad.

 

And the "shisheeye" that goes through the trouble of reading this forum would have difficulty finding someone to translate the above?

Unfortunately, adigaaba qarxisay. Runtii shisheeye badan ayaa aqristo meeshaan. Ma aamini kartid inta Soomaali interest ku eh oo Soomaali ahayn, be it the country or its people.

 

Teeda kalena how is Kaastaro, maka soo baxay isbitaalka oo ma qabtay shirkii Ururka Dhexdhexaadka?

[Castro]

No worries about the deleted text saaxib. The "ceeb" you're worried about though is more of a concern. So what if we have people claiming to be more Arabs than the Arabs? I see no more shame in that than people who live in the "greatest" country in the world and claim to get abducted by UFOs. Or those who still insist the earth is flat. In each case, the shame, if there's any, is on an individual basis and can hardly be extended to everyone else.

 

As for el commandante, he's not very well, as I'm sure you've heard, and once he passes away (or I do, whichever comes first), I will stop using name.

[rudy-Diiriye]

i know arabs, i have seen arabs! and us ppl aint no arabs!!...so stop day dreaming!! believe what u see in the mirror! pure african.....! no doubt.

 

eos! end of story!!

[me]

Originally posted by HornAfrique:

Me-

 

Why is it important to you what people claim? Secondly how did you translate as having some sort of Arab blood or descending from Arabs as being Arab today?

 

I expected better from you Mr. HornAfrique. The claim that some clans are Arabs while others are indigenous is a part of the mechanism of division used by those who do not want us to reconcile.

 

If our people do not have a common history or ancestry, we can not claim to be the same people. It would mean that we are a collection of different peoples. Some clans being Arabs while others are indigenous.

 

The claim of some clans being of Arab decent while others are indigenous creates a tension, since we know that it doesn’t end with the claim only. The information is misused and used to discriminate, because most qabiilist jaahils would link ancestry with race and ‘superiority’.

 

For the common good of our people, we need a departing point that unites all of us. That departing point can be for example our mythical forefather SOOMAALI. We need a history that unites us, that treats us all equal. We need a history that says we are all brothers, in which all clans abtirsiyadoodo ay ku dhamaato SOOMAALI. This would be no more of a fantasy then those ending their abtirsiyo with the cousin of the prophet scw.

 

Taking away the fuel of hate from the warmongers is important, if we want to find a solution for the current Somali crises. Clannism looks for divisions where ever it can.

 

A Clannis sees different Somali dialects and says they are different languages.

A Clannist sees different customs and says we have different cultures.

A Clannist’s belief is built on division and the ranking of certain groups.

 

Clannism is what’s making certain groups claim different ancestry, because they do not want to believe that that people they are fight, killing, whose houses they are burning, whose women they are raping are their brothers. So they will do anything si ay iskaga fogeeyaan maskaxdooda, in ay walaalo yihiin dadkan. Hadii ay arkaan in ay walaalahood sidan u galayaan, they might be ashamed. So in order to justify their actions they need to make sure that nothing unites them and the people they are killing.

 

To start destroying Clannism for once and for all we need to address the issue of Somali beginning, we need to correct the beginning of the clans. Because that’s were it went wrong.

 

The Somali Arab myth was not thought through. It was flawed on many ways.

 

- It divided the Somali nation, instead of uniting them

- It lend itself to be used as a tool for discrimination

- It claimed we were not the rightful owners of the Horn of Africa, and that we were an invading Army (Invading army might sound nice, but it’s also dangerous to our territorial claims, how can we claim to be the rightful owners of Somalia if it didn’t belong to us at the first place?).

 

So Mr.HornAfrique, we can not just let it be. We can not let it go, if this issue has such influence in our society. This issue needs to be properly addressed.

 

A common ancestry would unite us and would make the whole Somali nation one CLAN. Then maybe magta waan isla wada bixin lahayn. Waan isla qaadhaami lahayn. Waan isu hiilin lahayn. Walaalo ayaan ahaan lahayn.

[Sharif_seylaci]

thre is no one somali nation

 

somalis are not ethinically the same if they where

that would change the picture

 

But somalis came from all kind of the world my tribe for exampel comes from xijaaz

Some other tribes where just oromo some from yemen

Som from india ppl from barawe are from portugal

Soo a flag coudent unite the somali ppl what can islam i dont think so maybe when the mahdi comes

He wil make an islamic world

[me]

Y haplogroup E3b1 in Somali males

posted by Dienekes on Friday, March 11, 2005

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A new study quantifies the extent of Eurasian (15%) and Sub-Saharan African (5%) paternal admixture in Somalis, a population which appears to be predominantly East African paternally. The authors also explain why the Somalis have low Sub-Saharan African admixture:

 

The time of the eastbound Bantu expansion was estimated to be 3400±1100 years ago.24 Bantu populations have high frequencies of E3a haplogroups.4 We have observed only a few individuals with the E3a haplogroup in our Somali population, thus, supporting the view that the Bantu migration did not reach Somalia.42 It has been suggested that a barrier against gene flow exist in the region.43 The barrier seems to be the Cushitic languages and cultures to which Somalis belongs. The Cushitic languages belong to the Afro-Asiatic languages that are spoken in Northern and Eastern Africa. The Cushitic languages and cultures are mainly found in the Somalis and the Oromos, one of the two main groups inhabiting Ethiopia.44, 45, 46. The Somali and Oromo languages have a high degree of similarity and the two populations share many cultural characteristics. The Somali and Oromo people live in clans with special patterns of marriage and the Somali and Oromo people have complex, interwoven pedigrees.44, 45

 

 

European Journal of Human Genetics (advance online publication)

 

High frequencies of Y chromosome lineages characterized by E3b1, DYS19-11, DYS392-12 in Somali males

 

Juan J Sanchez et al.

 

We genotyped 45 biallelic markers and 11 STR systems on the Y chromosome in 201 male Somalis. In addition, 65 sub-Saharan Western Africans, 59 Turks and 64 Iraqis were typed for the biallelic Y chromosome markers. In Somalis, 14 Y chromosome haplogroups were identified including E3b1 (77.6%) and K2 (10.4%). The haplogroup E3b1 with the rare DYS19-11 allele (also called the E3b1 cluster γ) was found in 75.1% of male Somalis, and 70.6% of Somali Y chromosomes were E3b1, DYS19-11, DYS392-12, DYS437-14, DYS438-11 and DYS393-13. The haplotype diversity of eight Y-STRs ('minimal haplotype') was 0.9575 compared to an average of 0.9974 and 0.9996 in European and Asian populations. In sub-Saharan Western Africans, only four haplogroups were identified. The West African clade E3a was found in 89.2% of the samples and the haplogroup E3b1 was not observed. In Turks, 12 haplogroups were found including J2*(xJ2f2) (27.1%), R1b3*(xR1b3d, R1b3f) (20.3%), E3b3 and R1a1*(xR1a1b) (both 11.9%). In Iraqis, 12 haplogroups were identified including J2*(xJ2f2) (29.7%) and J*(xJ2) (26.6%). The data suggest that the male Somali population is a branch of the East African population - closely related to the Oromos in Ethiopia and North Kenya - with predominant E3b1 cluster γ lineages that were introduced into the Somali population 4000-5000 years ago, and that the Somali male population has approximately 15% Y chromosomes from Eurasia and approximately 5% from sub-Saharan Africa.

[me]

Analysis of mtDNA HVRII in several human populations using an immobilised SSO probe hybridisation assay.

 

Comas D, Reynolds R, Sajantila A.

 

Department of Forensic Medicine, University of Helsinki, Finland.

 

Several populations were typed for the hypervariable region II (HVRII) of the mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) control region using immobilised sequence-specific oligonucleotide (SSO) probes. A total of 16 SSO probes was used to type 1081 individuals from eight different ethnic groups (African Americans, Somali, US Europeans, US Hispanics, Bosnians, Finns, Saami and Japanese). Data was compared with already published sequence data by analysis of principal components, genetic distances and analysis of the molecular variance (AMOVA). The analyses performed group the samples in several clusters according to their geographical origins. Most of the variability detected is assigned to differences between individuals and only 7% is assigned to differences among groups of populations within and between geographical regions. Several features are patent in the samples studied: Somali, as a representative East African population, seem to have experienced a detectable amount of Caucasoid maternal influence; different degrees of admixture in the US samples studied are detected; Finns and Saami belong to the European genetic landscape, although Saami present an outlier position attributable to a strong maternal founder effect. The technique used is a rapid and simple method to detect human variation in the mtDNA HVRII in a large number of samples, which might be useful in forensic and population genetic studies.

[me]

Originally posted by me:

Analysis of mtDNA HVRII in several human populations using an immobilised SSO probe hybridisation assay.

 

Comas D, Reynolds R, Sajantila A.

 

Department of Forensic Medicine, University of Helsinki, Finland.

 

Somali, as a representative East African population, seem to have experienced a detectable amount of Caucasoid maternal influence;

One might wonder how is this relevant to the discussion about some Somali clans being Arabs.

 

Well as the two studies above have shown us that the fathers side of the Somali was almost pure Cushtic (77.2%) and the second study argues that the Somali population has experienced a detectable amount of Caucasoid maternal influence. So the mothers side of the Somali could have a non-Cushtic origin.

 

So there goes that theory that some clans are Arabs, because the clans trace their lineage through their fathers side and we have seen that the first Somali man was Cushtic and not Arab and on the fathers side we are 77.2% Cushtic.

 

Anyways Wiilka Shaydaan explained it before, and I think he will be happy with the new study because it proves him right.

 

The first Somali man was Cushtic and the dude had jungle fever.

[Sharif_seylaci]

Wel they dont have my asharaaf dna soo

[Allamagan]

Oh no!, for sure we somalis suffering identity problem! certain somali clans believe their great ancestor was from the great Hashimites or from great reer binu Xijaz of Arabia without a clear, factual account of this.

 

C'mon, are there any SOL archaeologists here who wants to be commisioned about this?

[me]

^^ tel me about it! Some identity crisis we got here.

 

I am willing settle for 1 somali race, anyone down with it?

 

We are just Somali, cool? No difefrnet falavours (thats the farax in me spelling) of Somali, but just O.S.(Original Somalis)