Ibtisam Posted February 20, 2008 Obviously Israel is above the law. The only way to change this is to kick people like Jack Straw out of office. Labour created Israel in 1948 and supplied Israel with plutonium in the 1960s. Today more than 50% of Labour MPs are devoted Zionists. Yet people like Jack Straw get widespread Muslim support in Blackburn (90% Muslims) Shame on them. Toure...you included! ---------------------------- An Israeli general wanted for alleged war crimes escaped arrest in the UK because British police feared an armed confrontation at Heathrow airport. Documents seen by BBC News reveal how Major General Doron Almog managed to fly back to Israel when police failed to board his plane in September 2005. He stayed on board for two hours after a tip-off that he was facing detention. Police were concerned about a potential clash with Israeli air marshals or armed personal security on the plane. Maj Gen Almog had flown to the UK for social and charitable visits to Jewish communities in Solihull, in the West Midlands, and Manchester. Lawyers acting for Palestinian campaigners lobbied the Metropolitan Police to act over allegations he had ordered the destruction in 2002 of more than 50 Palestinian homes in the Gaza Strip. Campaigners say the homes were destroyed by the Israeli army as retribution for a Palestinian militant attack, in contravention of the laws of war protecting civilian property. Israel says destruction of Palestinian houses is among the necessary measures it takes to protect its citizens. The Met initially refused to get involved, citing massive pressures on counter-terrorism teams in the wake of the London bombings. But the legal representatives successfully applied to a judge for an arrest warrant for a private prosecution. Decisions log A decisions log prepared for the Independent Police Complaints Commission, which has investigated the incident, shows officers decided to detain the general at Heathrow's immigration control. They then planned to take him to a police station to consider executing the warrant. However, news of the warrant leaked to the Israeli Embassy. Officials tipped off the general and he and his wife refused to leave the El Al flight for the two hours it sat at the London airport's terminal. The documents now show Det Supt John MacBrayne, a senior counter-terrorism officer who was responsible for the operation, could not get confirmation that his team had the right to board the plane. El Al, Israel's national airline, had refused permission. In his log, he wrote: "Another consideration [was] that El Al flights carried armed air marshals, which raised issues around public safety. "There was also no intelligence as to whether Mr Almog would have been travelling with personal security as befitted his status, armed or otherwise." The officer concluded there were real risks to the police and public and also had concerns about the "international impact of a potentially armed police operation at an airport". When Maj Gen Almog arrived back in Israel, the planned arrest caused a minor diplomatic storm, with Israeli foreign minister Silvan Shalom describing the incident as an "outrage". In turn, the then UK Foreign Secretary Jack Straw apologised to his counterpart for any embarrassment caused. Hickman and Rose, lawyers for the Palestinians, demanded an inquiry. A spokesman for the Independent Police Complaints Commission said its review had not identified the source who leaked details of the planned arrest. It also concluded police had not broken rules by failing to board the aircraft to execute the warrant. John O' Connor, a former head of Scotland Yard's flying squad, told BBC One's Breakfast programme: "All they needed to do was to stop the plane from taking off and negotiate through the Foreign Office." He said he felt the arrest had been "written off", putting "British justice is in the dock." Source: BBC NEWS. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thierry. Posted February 20, 2008 Lool Ibti I heard about this case a couple of weeks ago and I have always disagreed with labour policies towards the Arab Israeli agenda. But if the honest truth is told the only real option that Muslims and migrants have in this country is the Labour party. If that was the conservatives they would have told the General to sit for tea and biscuits. My point is you can either sit on the side lines or become angry till you become red or you can join the party and try to gradually change policies such as the Arab-Israeli one. I have meet many young Muslims in the Labour youth wing conferences who feel exactly same way I feel and in fact the chairman of young labour is Muslim. Next step is to form pressure group within the party such as “Labours friends of Israel” So Ibti next general elections I hope you don’t waste your vote on the Lib Dems Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Abu-Salman Posted February 20, 2008 Toure, the Conservatives may seem the lesser evil when you consider the big picture of immorality (family values, crimes, homosexuality etc). Also, the Labour, the very same who legalized same sex marriage invaded Iraq, Afghanistan and applauded Somalia genocide by Ethiopian troops, is devalued even more, now that Conservatives seems to have "adapted" their policies (for example, reform in the NHS etc). At any rate, it is much safer to stay away from any party, unless expressly specified by Ulamas (such as in exceptional cases)... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ibtisam Posted February 20, 2008 Toure: There is an old saying in the village “people see the ants go past but not the elephants”. That is so true; people squabble over little things but forget the big issues. I remember campaign against the Labour MP Lorna Fitzsimmons (who in the end lost the election in Rochdale) years back, I am a true believer in getting rid of those who does not represent your ideas and values. I do not believe in blindly following and voting for a particular party just because you have always voted Labour. Sadly repeating the same process in the last elections did not cost straw his seat, but it did marginalized it. However I do believe the Muslims in Blackburn learnt a lesson, considering his attitude towards them NOW, after he used and abused the. History has a tendency to repeat itself because we don't learn lesson from it and act to stop it. The need for tactical voting, even if voting means electing the lesser of two evils is what I believe. There are times when I will support a labour representative, for example came May, I will vote for Livingston, rather than Borris, We as Muslims need to block vote with individuals rather than party. I for one want a clear conscience for 2morrow’s mistakes and I can only ensure this by voting for morally just person. As time passes by there is always a loss to mankind, therefore time is precious. It is our duty to participate in politics because we can make an impact….yes but participate to better our conditions and also the condition of everyone in our community and the world not simple following loyalties. P.s. don’t even get me started on the labour friends of Palestine :rolleyes: PPS I do see your idea about changing from within…but it is too bigger goal, and the system has a habit of changing people who went in with good intentions. I interviewed Shahid Malik before he become an MP, he sure has changed. Furthermore in case you have not noticed, not only are Muslims who make it to the top sale-outs, they compete against each other and are too busy having a village fight. I’m sure you remember what happened between Sayeeda Warsi and Malik in Dewsberry. I will see waaxaad laa timiaadid you and your Holborn dude Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cynical lady Posted February 20, 2008 "I for one want a clear conscience for 2morrow’s mistakes and I can only ensure this by voting for morally just person. As time passes by there is always a loss to mankind, therefore time is precious. It is our duty to participate in politics because we can make an impact….yes but participate to better our conditions and also the condition of everyone in our community and the world not simple following loyalties" I refuse to inject my cynicism in that, but ibti dear I give you time! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Abu-Salman Posted February 20, 2008 Frankly, I am very cautious even about getting involved in secular political parties at home; the mere fact of a meeting without Allah's mention is severely reprimanded and a punishable sin for Muslims, with Shariah regulating from personal hygiene and worship to transactions as well as politics (Islam, or submission to Allah is not a selctive pursuit!)... After voting in Djibouti in 2005, a relative confided to me that she choose neither parties for avoiding the resulting responsibility (there is no Shariah-compliant party) and I suddenly realized how misguided I was about my enthusiasm (I voted for the opposition knowing full well the realities in Djibouti). Likewise, I'm also sceptical when relatives says they have voted for a Western group or get involved with such criminal outfits, debating about local hospital nosocomial infections when they sponsor the most deadly weapons overseas without the slightest thought or care (birth malformations and other enduring cancerigen effects are soaring in Iraq and a Western NGO confirmed Ethiopian use of phosphorus rounds in the midst of the Somali Capital etc)! To the extent an Islamic party (like the ICU) is available, the dilemma would be solved and corruption & nepotism finally tackled without endorsing worse evils; in that light, we should actively promote our Islamic Values whenever the opportunity arise. Nonetheless, one has to admit that politics never had the power to metamorphose societies; not only do "democracies" actively promote the statu-quo or typically opt for the path of least resistance (badly needed socio-economic reforms in France are indefinitely delayed, policies diluted etc), just like populist regimes, but, even more insidiously, they never take other communities into account (not to mention the environment or global eco-systems); hence why american policies are invariably biased in favor of established economic interests or absurdly Israel-friendly even when this undermines US citizens' interests in flagrant ways as voiced by many high-ranking US academicians (medicines are widely advertized through medias, public health regulations influenced by Business' lobbies etc)... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jacaylbaro Posted February 21, 2008 Jews rule the world ,,,, that is the bottom line. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NGONGE Posted February 21, 2008 Ibtisam, If that General was on a plane that landed in Egypt, Saudi Arabia or even Iran I really doubt he would have been arrested. Contrary to what JB says, the Israelis do not control everything but they do have very strong political lobbyists. You're in idealist with all your sweet talk about 'tomorrow's mistakes', etc.. Do you want to challenge, compete and upstage the Israeli lobby? Get real and ditch your principles. That's politics, my dear. Ps Straw and his like can only do what is possible under existing circumstances and within established political conditions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jacaylbaro Posted February 21, 2008 Originally posted by NGONGE: the Israelis do not control everything but they do have very strong political lobbyists. That is why they control the world ,,,,, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thierry. Posted February 21, 2008 See Ibti listen to Ngonge wisdom there are very few countries in the world that might have detained the general Venezuela might be one of them but soon enough they would release him. Ibti in an Ideal world yes we vote on policies and those politicians that meet our beliefs should get our votes. The reality on the ground is that Britain is dominated by two parties and you should support the lesser of the two evils (labour). Come General election you have three options: Vote labour Vote Conservatives Vote a minority party (Lib Dem, UKIP, Respect, BNP etc) Jac in my view Israeli domination, Free Mason rule or even 2 Pac and Biggie living in El Paso Mexico can be put into the big conspiracy box. Israel has very strong lobby group such as AIPAC but this is something that is an achievable by any group if they become organised. Just this week an Arab bought a license plate for $14 million, imagine if he used that money to set up an office in the US or UK which monitors the Media view of Arabs or Muslims. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NGONGE Posted February 21, 2008 ^^^ Like Memri you mean? Ibti means well but she's still at that (dreary) stage of futile anger. It's all or nothing for her. ps The Arabs (those with some semblance of a brain at least) have wised up to the idea of lobbying and are in the process of using the strongest form available. Why else do you think they're starting to gobble up all these powerful western institutions! In fact, with the recent American credit crunch and the problems it caused to several high profile banks, it was the large Arab institutions that bailed them out and loaned them billions of dollars or bought huge (sometimes controlling) shares in them. Sooner or later, these newly acquired muscles in the global financial world will start to pay dividend (and I'm not talking monetary dividend either). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thierry. Posted February 21, 2008 Ngonge that I commend very much they are buying into the whole financial markets and there is no better time to do it than when the US have waived their patriotic flags and will let anyone buy to save their economy. However I say some focus should be given to the media, instead of acquiring 20 Merrill Lynches and Citi Groups buy NBC. I understand that everything is small step I commend their current acquisitions. MEMRI serves its purpose well its reaching out to Arabs with its propaganda. Maybe Muslims should think of doing the same thing Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cynical lady Posted February 21, 2008 Come General election you have three options: Vote labour Vote Conservatives Vote a minority party (Lib Dem, UKIP, Respect, BNP etc) Is there a real difference between conservative party and new labour in terms of policies? more or less labour has been thieving on conservatives ideas and passing them as labour policies. What was the first thing Gordon Brown said “he would welcome members from other parties to form a new government under his leadership”, hell there is no real left or right wing anymore apart from the backbenchers sticking to there guns more often than not labour find itself relying on the conservatives just to pass legislations, hence I believe there is no such thing as electoral democracy anymore; we don’t have a choice either way we are choosing the same policies… As for Jack Straw to resign, that’s impossible ministers don’t resign anymore Peter Mandelson is leaving proof… Ps change comes from inside, its about time the Muslim community starts lobbying p.s.s congratulations to me, this is my 1000 post wohuuuuuuuu! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jacaylbaro Posted February 21, 2008 congrats to your 1000 posts ,,,,,,,, you can do it to the 1 Million ,, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Blessed Posted February 21, 2008 Originally posted by NGONGE: Contrary to what JB says, the Israelis do not control everything but they do have very strong political lobbyists. They are also organised, unapologetic, support each other regardless of differences, they put money in everything, they have men in every field and important organisation. I envy them ans I want to throw stones at them. :mad: Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
