RendezVous Posted February 28, 2005 Supuu sikiza jo.. Nobody did say we have a fight against ISLAM as a religion..nor did we say we have a problem with the word 'ISLAM'meaning submission... We submit to Allah s.w not you or anybody else for that matter..When our religion was called ISLAM...it didn't come by 'TRYING'names or giving nicknames..we have a prove that you are needed to 'SUBMIT' in submission to Allah s.w '..and we choose ISLAM as your religion' Do not try abusing the word ISLAM..Which means SUBMISSION...you going around saying what submission...or how can someone be silent in Submission..we are not saying you be silent on issues affecting our society but express them islamically..follow your religion properly..or u think anybody's forcing you to submit to Allah. Islam is a perfect religion enforcing what is right and what is wrong..there is a lot of equality for both men and women..look at the phrases like... 'Inaan muuminiina wal muuminaati' 'inaal musadiqiina wal musadiqaati'..'inaal qaanitiina wal qaanitaataati'..and so on..and about stoning as in this case..it was said.. 'flog each of them with a hundred stripes'.. Our problem is when people start translating ISLAM in their own way...like the way you are talking about Submission..do u submit to Allah your creator or to nomads at SOL.. ISLAM is the fastest growing religion today in the world..especially in the states and Europe..but most people nowadays are muslims by Names like Ibraheem and xaliimo...Few rarely follow ISLAM.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
J.Lee Posted February 28, 2005 Originally posted by Fiance': Silence is Starvation Its not that some women dont have the choice....... Some women just Choose to endure this crap ..... Dont go around spreading that lie. Thats what they want you to believe. Who is the they you're refering to? In regards to your first statement, you make it sound as though there is an alternative choice that they are not choosing because they choose/want to endure this misogynistic crap when in actuality they don't have a choice at all. Besides would you choose to be degraded and subjected to brutality if you had a choice not to.........? Islam is a perfect religion enforcing what is right and what is wrong..there is a lot of equality for both men and women.. I agree and any muslim would agree with that statement for it is the truth but the problem isn't Islam but rather the Muslims who justify their cultural practices through Islam when those practices are contradicting the teachings of Islam and our religious doctrine. As you stated, few rarely follow Islam (in its truest form). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faarax-Brawn Posted February 28, 2005 Originally posted by juba: quote:Originally posted by Brown: [ Lets face it,some islamic nations tilt slightly towards men's side. yea like every other major religon Juba, walaalo. why do i care about what other religions do or they dont do? I have a perfect religion. and when muslims come around and twist it to suit their very own egotistic rulings, that i have a problem with. One thing i know is, if and if that woman would have lived in a western country, the outcome will not be like this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Senora Posted February 28, 2005 In regards to your first statement, you make it sound as though there is an alternative choice that they are not choosing because they choose/want to endure this misogynistic crap when in actuality they don't have a choice at all. Besides would you choose to be degraded and subjected to brutality if you had a choice not to.........? But they do have a choice. Come on,what are we, a bunch of punks?! You step on my toes, I'm knocking you out. You get a bunch of these women who feel the same way about the situation, and sincerely looking for a change, trust me, persistence will win out in the end.Anyways, i cat believe i even had to break it down....we all know deep down inside that anything is possible. As long as you got heart. Brother Rendezvous... I didnt even have to read your whole post, your first sentence told me you didnt understand my quote.... This act of submission towards the status quo refers to... the sickening compliance to the existing condition in the Iranian society. Understand now? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faarax-Brawn Posted February 28, 2005 But they do have a choice. Come on,what are we, a bunch of punks?! You step on my toes, I'm knocking you out. Tell em, thats how yalls do it in the dirrt'teyh dirrtty souf! HaHaHa. on the real tho, supuu, its not all parts of the world that has women empowered as you 'is'. some ppl were raised to fear,obey and simply be afraid of men. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
J.Lee Posted February 28, 2005 on the real tho, supuu, its not all parts of the world that has women empowered as you 'is'. some ppl were raised to fear,obey and simply be afraid of men. Say that then, believe it or not Supuu, Eastern women particularly Arabs have "Men are you Masters and You're inferrior" mentality that has been drummed in to them since childhood and a mentality that is hard to break for it dates back to before Prophet Maxamed S.C.W. and it still exists ......centuries later, so I'm quite sure change isn't in their horizon anytime soon. Besides you live in a western society and are thought that women have rights and blah blah thus why you have "You step on my toes, I'm knocking you out. " while they are thought that Women have no rights and thus why they can't stand up for themselves because they think the way they are treated is normal while you think is abnormal.......Simple as that....... But they do have a choice you say....Lets entertain that idea....Pray tell me......What are their choices and how are they, women that don't know they have choices, go about implementing change and what can cause change if they don't believe there needs to be change? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RendezVous Posted March 1, 2005 ...........Eastern women particularly Arabs have "Men are you Masters and You're inferrior" mentality that has been drummed in to them since childhood and a mentality that is hard to break for it dates back to before Prophet Maxamed S.C.W. and it still exists .... ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Who told you that..Acudhu Villah..do u remember the lady who came to prophet s.a.w and was seeking some intervention about a possible 'FORCED MARRIAGE'...what did the prophet s.c.w said...to the small lady.. It is your wishes that you will be the sole one who will consider whether to get married to the guy or not... The lady was given the authority.. I ask Was that 'INFERIORITY PLANTED IN THEIR MINDS'.. What about the Quraan interpretations of a Mother...and the Hadeeth also on Mothers.. One SAXAABA came to the prophet asking who can be the best Companion of his ..who is MORE BETTER to be close After having so much thought for sometime.. The prophet said..Your mother..he asked and the saxaabi asked again.. then who?..The prophet said ..your mother..then he asked the third time then who?..the prophet said..Your Mother... He only said ..your father..the fourth time... The mother was valued three times than the father..point Blank...Warrior dadkaan nagaqabo..sis...ama nizitoe more.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OG_Girl Posted March 1, 2005 ...........Eastern women particularly Arabs have "Men are you Masters and You're inferrior" mentality that has been drummed in to them since childhood and a mentality that is hard to break for it dates back to before Prophet Maxamed S.C.W. and it still exists .... this is a styreotyping!! Let me back to the topic,any women can claim a guy raped her! In Iran or most of middleastern countries , any one is accused of rape, even if he is proven innocent will be discluded from the community and labelled for rest of his life. So, should there be way to protect men too.Also if court proven guilty he would face death plenty...So where is injustice here! before you just accuse our justice system you should know, the judge is humanbeen, he can't just use his emotions like most of you using it here.Isn't that easy you think of it. The bottom line is; The rape crimes should be proven!We can't just take her words. I worked the whole semester ( around four months , part of my gradution requerment) in the family court, believe me not all women whom claiming being a victims are innocent! Like there is an evil men there is an Evil women too. There is also a lot of guys being rapped, can you imagine a grown up man comming to court saying three huge women rapped him!!! Well happened front of me but guess what ? The judge told him to get lost and he's been charged for wasting " court's preciuos time" !! Just look other possibilities that men could be victims too. Not our system favoured men all the time. Salam Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Warrior of Light Posted March 1, 2005 Originally posted by OG_Girl: he is proven innocent will be discluded from the community and labelled for rest of his life. So, should there be way to protect men too. Its a shame they are discluded as he is innocent.Societies can be harsh I think they fear that he can become one.But its still a presumption only Allah knows better. Defamers in Islam are lashed well, that is if she was a chaste woman.Dont know if the same ruling can be applied to men :confused: The one who has defamed his name should pay the price. Like there is an evil men there is an Evil women too. Naam, very true. There is also a lot of guys being rapped, can you imagine a grown up man comming to court saying three huge women rapped him!!! Well happened front of me but guess what ? The judge told him to get lost and he been charged for wasting " court's preciuos time" !! Just look other possibilities that men could be victim too. I knew this problem existed but never knew that the courts didnt consider the moraland psychological abuse of the gentleman. Poor man ,what an ordeal to go through.The judge should be charged with overlooking ones modesty and chastisy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OG_Girl Posted March 1, 2005 she was a chaste woman. Since she never been married so the law treats her as a chaste! The other point, to be honest, If I was her lawyer's position I wouldn't take her case cause it's hard to convince the judge that she's been raped in " his place"!. Don't judge this particualar case in western point of view. No way girl in our society go man's place and expect to not happen to her any thing cause respectful muslim man wouldn't ask a girl to come to his place!So in this case just going to his place that proves she agreed to have Adultrey with him. Dont know if the same ruling can be applied to men If you never married( I mean officially in the court or shar'an, even thought you are not a virgin the rule applies as a virgin)Whatever you are a male or femele.The law treats you as a chaste no one can say to you otherwise or argue since that needs 4 witness' to prove you otherwise , so no one will risk and put them selves into troubles..lol<---I am talking legally! The one who has defamed his name should pay the price. Agreed! Salam Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
J.Lee Posted March 1, 2005 OG-Girl , You call it stereotyping, I call it the truth, and btw, care to explain how that statement was a stereotype when there are facts (such as this article) that conclude otherwise? Rendevouz, find a single sentence that that led you to believe I was attacking Islam. It seems as though, like majority of Somalis, you think Arab culture is a fair representation of Islam or rather the two are one and the same (Attack arabs then you're attacking Islam) when they are different. Furthermore, I'm attacking their culture not our religion so please explain your exclamation of "Acuudi bilaahi". Did I insult Islam? ahhh, NO , for I know how fair and balanced Islam is and the rights it bestows on women, rights, may I add most Arabs along with many other groups chose to neglect in favor of their primitive cultural belief's rather than their religious belief's. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RendezVous Posted March 1, 2005 MS excel...or whatever you call yourself... Please assume that on this occasion am not talking about Arabs neither am I an arab..am a somali and a muslim..am talking on behalf of some guyz or may I say pretenders(MUNAFIQUUN)...who antagonize ISLAM..they say they submit to Allah while they are doing the other way... I said it is ISLAM which is perfect..and people and especially the MUNAAFIQUUN are busy trying to create some stories like WIFE BEATING in ISLAM and INEQUALITY and so on...all this items are described very well in DETAILS BY THE HOLY QURAAN...If you read my previous threads...you will see some Equality and Inequalities..There are times Women have more qualities than men...in DEEN and there are times when men have more qualities.. Most times you will see in Quraan... 'inaal munaafiqiina wal munaafiqaati..(two)..inaal musslimiina wal muslimaati...(two)..inaal muuminiina wal muuminaati... showing two(a man and a woman)..If there is no equality it would read like... Inaal muuminiina only...or even inaal munaafiqiina only...and u will find in the HOLY QURAAN alone..do u see that in the BIBLE...? So there is no excuse of 'WOMEN IN ARABIA...or somali WOMEN or whatever...All muslims are brothers and sisters...the prophet s.a.w said in his last khutba... 'LA FADLA LI CARABIYIN LI ACJAMINYIN..'..ILAA BI TAQWAAAAAAAAAAA.. meaning There is no human who is better than the other..infront of Allah except the one who fears HIM. So don't talk about ISLAM wala prophet..wala a lot of nonsense sis.. :mad: Talk about the main story.. ISLAM IS PERFECT...Read Quraan 'ALYOMA AKMALTU LAKUM DIINAKUM'meaning we have perfected your Religion...Mind u this was the last Sura of the HOLY QURAAN.. IT IS ONLY .ARABS AND SOMALIS AND OTHER MUSLIMS WHO ARE DOING AGAINST ISLAM... A BIG FULLSTOP...jaribu tena Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
J.Lee Posted March 1, 2005 MS excel...or whatever you call yourself... That is cute but my nick doesn't stand for MicroSoft Word. So don't talk about ISLAM wala prophet..wala a lot of nonsense sis all I wrote, If you pay clear attention, was that "Eastern women particularly Arabs have "Men are you Masters and You're inferrior" mentality that has been drummed in to them since childhood and a mentality that is hard to break for it dates back to before Prophet Maxamed S.C.W. and it still exists ......centuries later". There isn't a single sentence in that statement that is talking about Islam. As for the Putting the Prophet (SCW)name in there, it was to show how large the time gap is and how change isn't soon to come. Furthermore, it was to show long how the Arabs had the same mysoginistic views and belief's(burrying their daughters alive, mistreating their women and etc.), views that they held even before Nabi Moxamed's (SCW)time. Of course, It stopped when they embraced Islam and practiced it in its truest form but centuries later, the same views and beliefs take precedence over their religious beliefs. and people and especially the MUNAAFIQUUN are busy trying to create some stories like WIFE BEATING in ISLAM and INEQUALITY and so on... So you're stating this story like many others, is fabricated? WOW! :eek: Warheedheh, you put turtles to shame, maandhow, I wasn't insulting Islam but rather the Muslims who use it to justify their views when in fact, it doesn't coincide with our revealed knowledge, The Quran nor any Hadith's, which would make them Munaafiqiin and deserving of our comtept for their misrepresentation of our religion. Vermin! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Senora Posted March 1, 2005 Say that then, believe it or not Supuu, Eastern women particularly Arabs have "Men are you Masters and You're inferrior" mentality that has been drummed in to them since childhood and a mentality that is hard to break for it dates back to before Prophet Maxamed S.C.W. and it still exists ......centuries later, so I'm quite sure change isn't in their horizon anytime soon. This "mentality" is/was present in just about every society in the world. Its not distinctive to the Eastern region alone. What I am arguing/opposing is this attitude of conformity. And frankly, your pessimistic attitude aint helping any. Besides you live in a western society and are thought that women have rights and blah blah thus why you have "You step on my toes, I'm knocking you out. " while they are thought that Women have no rights and thus why they can't stand up for themselves because they think the way they are treated is normal while you think is abnormal.......Simple as that....... These western societies got a lot of skeletons in their closets too. But im on the other side here. I think these Muslim women were taught better. But their lacking unification, just like every other oppressed group in the world. But they do have a choice you say....Lets entertain that idea....Pray tell me......What are their choices and how are they, women that don't know they have choices, go about implementing change and what can cause change if they don't believe there needs to be change? I dont know a muslim woman, after reading this, that thinks there doesn't need to be some sort of a change.If you know of some, then they're some neglectful cowards. You must know about the power of voice. You know MSWord, there are countless options available on the table, but most importantly their needs to be an abscence of doubt for change. Stop complaining that there can't be anything done, and do something for goodness sakes! Nothing comes easy. What happened to compassion people? Are we so driven by our personal agenda's that unless an issue directly affects our lives, we stay inactive? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RendezVous Posted March 1, 2005 Simple and it remains the truth ..that ISLAM came for the best treatment among other world religions..There is a lot of inequalities in other religions..for example Women are recognised as 'EVIL' by the christian Congress.. Whatever..Think of it as A western propaganda anything that says about Women have no right..or this so called Wife beating..so on We said there is no wife beating in ISLAM..they show us pictures of women beaten..we showed them Women raped in the Christian World...so how is it ISLAM.. So what was the story..Inequality but how...by stoning or lashing 100 strokes..or what..It is defined in the Holy quraan point blank.. I urge all our men to respect their women and likewise all our women to respect their men.. With ISLAM...i assure you everything is ok.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
