Johnny B Posted September 2, 2006 JB: So you mean, mankind's faith and belif values regarding God and 'life are a self-delusion that we pass to our children generation in generation out , and it is this delusion that creates today's political, economical, social and spritual crisis? Ngonge: - that is correct. JB - So, if we can change those values we can change the others as well? Ngonge - Yes. JB - With that could we end the killings and sufferings ? Ngonge - You could do that. JB - Could we skip oppression and violence as well ? Ngonge - Actually , you could. JB - Sounds so hopeful, it makes me belive that humanity has a chance. Ngonge - You've more than a mere chance my son, You and all the children of God has a happy destiny ahead to realize. JB - Is that true? do you really mean it? Ngonge - I can assure you that mankind has the capacity of experiencing things beyond what you can dream of, Humanity is at the enterance of golden times, an era of thousands of years of peace . this could be your destiny , but you have to choose it first. JB - You make it sound like if mankind needs to conciously choose to have a peaceful life-experience, thus totally chnage their faith and belif values. Ngonge - , Your faith and belif values regarding God was it. JB - How about those who don't belive in God ? Ngonge - It doesen't matter if people belive in a God or not , everybody has something they belif in regadring Life that is, What all of you notice but fail to grsab is Man's collective faith in God reflects Humanity's collective faith regading Gud. Its not that defficult to understand if you pay attention to what i'm gonna tell you now, though some people have defficult to accept. Ngonge - ..... coming soom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Che -Guevara Posted September 2, 2006 Hhmmm,Interesting, You are very doctrinaire in your writing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Khayr Posted September 10, 2006 Could this be another sprinkle of Liberal Dogmatism? :rolleyes: Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Qandalawi Posted September 10, 2006 I don't understand most of what was said in that writing but isn't this a serious assertion You and all the children of God Subhanallah... Repent to your god, this ain't a joke but a very serious sin, I suggest you to read Surat "Qul huwalla" or Assamad to see how much weight of a burden could carry such claim. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faarax-Brawn Posted September 10, 2006 I am Pierre Faarax & i approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Johnny B Posted September 10, 2006 Tukaale , You and the children of God is a metaphor , please try to understand it in the context . Farax, i second that , but then whose intellect are we using to judge the veracity of its contents ? not mine , that is definitely for sure . Khayr, spill the beans and relif us, eh , you'd always been good for learning . _________________________________________________ continuation____________________________________ JB - You were about to tell me something that could make Mankind realize a happy destiny !. Ngonge - Yes ,Mankind can choose to take these steps now if Mankind really want to change the world and change the self-destructive course it has taken, the following steps that is. Ngonge - 1: Realise that some (many ) of their faith and belif systems about God and Life doesen't function. Ngonge - 2: Acknowledge that there are things they don't understand about God and Life. Ngonge - 3: Be more receptive to their inner and outer criticism , stay wide open for any qualifying but totally diffrent understanding about God and Life. JB - Very intresting points i must say , Regarding the first point , i know about people whose faith and belif about God doesen't function anymore , they claim that the world lacks understanding for an old fashioned religion , Life would be prefect had we listened to it , obeyed it and did exactly whatever it literally said. Ngonge - I know these people , they're the ones who think the way forward for Humanity is backward., and their holy script whichever that might be, should be literally interpreted. Those are the fundmentalists , available in all belif systems. JB - Are they right? should the earth be a better place to live on if we listened to them and obeyed literally their "holy" script? Ngonge - The initial problem with that is you just can't listen to the old script , you've to interpret the words, and the minute you're on interpreting , you be the one who decides the meaning of metaphors , convoulted senteces or a whole event of happenings. It becomes your words about God's words , instead of God's words, thus everybody has to believe that you're infalliable. JB - so , questioning the veracity of such interprations is a child's right ? Ngonge - I see that you've a clue of what a comparative theology is. JB - Just curious, what would you say to people who claim the only way available to Humanity is to follow their interpretation of their "holy" scripts litrally? Ngonge - I'd ask them to notice that those words were said (written) in a diffrent era, on a diffrent world and under totally diffrent circumstances, i would remind them that those teachings were based on few solid principles then, to interpret them today literally instead of understanding the circumstnaces behind them can only lead to a fatal misunderstanding at best and a loss of it's wisedom at worst. To conclude i'd tell them , believe in whatever you may belive , follow your heart ,but never ever try to force your ideas about your faith and belif values on others, as that is against the very princples of faith. JB - But what to do if they are so convinced about their righteousness and think its their duty to make others live like they do, assuming that they're saving others? Ngonge - I'd ask them duty towards who ? JB - How about if they answer duty towards God? Ngonge - Then i would remind them that they've misunderstood God, God never gave Humanity the "free will" just to be taken away by a punch of self-righteous believers, unless they've subconciously lost their own " free will " that is. JB- That was a very strong assertion. but then you come across wholly clean since even the fundmentalists do believe in the doctorine of the "free will". Ngonge - well, It's about God's will , and many of the laws and regulations applied in those cultures are not God's will but the leaders of those societies. JB- And who can claim to know what God's will is? Ngonge - ........coming soon. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Castro Posted September 11, 2006 Perhaps I should have posted this here. Here's a relevant excerpt: At the morning mass Benedict said that Western societies had become "hard of hearing" about God, saying: "There are too many other frequencies in our ears. What is said about God strikes us as pre-scientific, no longer suited for our age." He contrasted this to a faith he still found in developing countries, where 70 percent of the world's Catholics now live. "People in Africa and Asia admire our scientific and technical prowess, but at the same time they are frightened by a form of rationality which totally excludes God from man's vision, as if this were the highest form of reason," he said. They sensed a "contempt for God" in Western societies and "a cynicism that considers mockery of the sacred to be an exercise of freedom and hold up utility as the supreme moral criterion for the future of scientific research," he said. JBiiyow, how is this related to broadway or to biscuits? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faarax-Brawn Posted September 11, 2006 Farax, i second that , but then whose intellect are we using to judge the veracity of its contents ? not mine , that is definitely for sure THATS IT!! I throw my towel in. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Khalaf Posted September 11, 2006 Can I get into this broadway play? Your first part of the play it said: Ngonge - You've more than a mere chance my son, You and all the children of God has a happy destiny ahead to realize. No my friend, those who have happy ending are only those who believe in One God the God of Abraham and All of mankind, A God that has no human qualities, or is human in nature and those who follow the Quran with deeds, the rest are doomed in hellfire. Lets look at like this a classroom, full of students. To pass the class the teacher assigns guidelines/rules and gives out exams to test the students to see who best studies. Whom so ever works hard will pass the exams right, and the others will fail the class. Now is it fair if everyone to have a happy “destiny†a good grade even thou they have not worked for it? The answer is no. How can a sinner-one who commits vice and a believer one who is committed to virtue be equal and receive the same reward? In the second part of the play it said: JB - You were about to tell me something that could make Mankind realize a happy destiny !. Yes –Islam we can come back to this: why this is the only rode to the success of all mankind. But first u said: JB - Very intresting points i must say , Regarding the first point , i know about people whose faith and belif about God doesen't function anymore , they claim that the world lacks understanding for an old fashioned religion , Life would be prefect had we listened to it , obeyed it and did exactly whatever it literally said. Life, or as in Arabic nafsi the soul would be perfect if we obey summit to it literally u say my friend? This would mean no rules, no law against the nafs just summit to whatever feels right correct? I ask u what type of world would this be, if everyone did as they wished? If u deem a society as such better please do tell us how that is more beneficial to the human race then old fashioned religion and its “restrictive†systems. Second: Ngonge - The initial problem with that is you just can't listen to the old script , you've to interpret the words, and the minute you're on interpreting , you be the one who decides the meaning of metaphors , convoulted senteces or a whole event of happenings. It becomes your words about God's words , instead of God's words, thus everybody has to believe that you're infalliable. We believe in Allah the Quran and All His Messengers. Though a precursor to these following points I want to make is u most be first convinced why Islam is the only rode, the above statement of interpretation does not apply to the Muslims. Why, because if it is shown the Quran is Divine, then the Quran has alreadly been interpreted and embodied in a living society with Allahs Messenger pbuh among them, therefore there is nothing new to be added by the modern man none of his whims. Its not the slaves words/orders, but Allahs Words and Orders which are being carrired out by His slaves. Third: Ngonge - I'd ask them to notice that those words were said (written) in a diffrent era, on a diffrent world and under totally diffrent circumstances, i would remind them that those teachings were based on few solid principles then, to interpret them today literally instead of understanding the circumstnaces behind them can only lead to a fatal misunderstanding at best and a loss of it's wisedom at worst. Can u tell us how humanity- characterstics/morality/ect is any different in the 21st century as was in the 7th century? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wisdom_Seeker Posted September 11, 2006 Where is this going? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Khalaf Posted September 11, 2006 Where ever Nistisa . You can join the play, add any thoughts? or are u the oneliner type? welcome BTW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wisdom_Seeker Posted September 11, 2006 I am taking my time khalaf, but i assure you that you will see more than one line pretty soon Thanks for the welcome khalaf Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Khalaf Posted September 11, 2006 Inshallah and enjoy your stay walaalshiis. salaamu lah Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wisdom_Seeker Posted September 11, 2006 Somaliaonline is great, i am sure i will. Take care Mac-Salaam Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Socod_badne Posted September 11, 2006 This post is what you get when someone had too much loco in their cocoa. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
