Cartoon Protest in London...

[Castro]

^ I'd be interested to see your response.

 

Originally posted by sheherazade:

Indeed I have come to this conclusion- to keep silent. The discussion revolving around Islam and Muslims has become buuq for me. EVERYBODY'S A CRITIC.

If "everybody's a critic", good Sheh, that makes you one too. What's the point of being a silent critic? That's a contradiction in terms, no? Is this also why our resident sheikh Nur avoids many volatile, but serious, issues and focuses, instead, on matrimonial bliss, Xalimo and Faarax hook up strategies and some such popular but trivial nonsense?

 

No offence intended to Nur. I'm just curious.

 

NGONGE, I've decided not discuss the cartoon row any more. If it makes you feel better, with the exception of a point or two, I agree with the bulk of your assessment.

[NGONGE]

Very well. However, that you agree with the bulk of what I say merely reinforces my deliberations and (to an extent) shows (me) that to toil on with argument after argument does bear fruit in the end. To say that it pleases me though is far of the mark. If it were one of ubahanne’s little games and righteous V evil battles, I’d (at this point) say that I’m, indeed, very pleased. This, as I hope all those reading know (and would extend me the courtesy of the doubt), has never been the case.

[Asxabul_kahf]

Salama aleykum brother,

 

First of all, some of your previous questions sounded very sarcastic. Like should I lock myself in a masjid or blow myself up. I mean such stereo typical views coming from a Muslim person, it's totally surprising. But I will give you the benefit of a doubt and say you were just asking honest and sincere questions. Brother I thought about your question in many ways, and walahi if I start answering it will need a whole thread by itself. So I decided to simple take your questions and make it like back and forth dialoge with few supporting ayahs insha Allah.

 

 

“Here we go again with that vague cry of ‘return to Islam’ and repent. I could never understand how that applies to current problems. In fact, I could never understand in what way it should apply.â€

 

 

Whenever a calamity afflicts a community, the first step to take is to have a sincere repentance to Allah brother. Yes it has everything to do with this, “And O believers, all of you, repent to Allah in order that you may be successful.†[24:31] Aren't we all looking for success here? Isn't the Ummah failing? Yes brother, this is the same successful we are looking for in political empowerment and community organization. We are blind to see our own success, and Allah mentions over and over again “O you who believe! Turn to Allah in sincere repentance!†[66:8]. Because every things that faces us, any tests tribulations comes from Allah, and all the prophets when they preached to their people they said worship Allah, obey him and he will in return forgive you for your sins. You have to understand brother there is a direct connection between our sins and our problems. “Allah will not change the condition of a people as long as they do not change their state themselves.†(13:11). Also you can note that Allah helps those whom he loves on this earth and yawmul qiyama. Verily, Allah loves those who repent and those who purify themselves.†(2:222). By the way I am using the Quran as a reference point because it's Allah's words, the controller of all the worlds. If I used human wisdom as a support then it would more likely have a flaw. Therefore any sound wisdom comes from Allah and his messenger s.c.w. Also true success and power lies in Iman, so yes we need to come back to Iman, this is a longer topic but I will summarize it by displaying this verse. “And turn in repentance and in obedience with true Faith (Islamic Monotheism) to your Lord and submit to Him (in Islam), before the torment comes upon you, then you will not be helped. And follow the best of that which is sent down to you from your Lord (i.e. this Quran, do what it orders you to do and keep away from what it forbids), before the torment comes on you suddenly while you perceive not.†(39:54-55) and this is not even the real torment, this is a mere trials in this dunya.

 

 

Ah! Maybe you mean that we should follow the correct path. Which one is that might I ask you (if that is your suggestion of course)

 

Good thing you asked, Brother the correct path should be clear to every Muslim, That is if he is moving towards gaining Ilm and not blind following. It is following the way of the rasul s.c.w. How? By first learning it and acting upon it and then conveying it. Now yes there are so many different dacwah groups who do things differently based on scholarly opinions. But this is the third step, how to give that dacwah of what you learned. Therefore brother, the duty of the common Muslim you and I have to stick to the orders in the Quran, and the Hadiths which are clearly authentic and avoid anything that is argued upon. The verse below clearly defines that.

 

"O you believe, obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority among you. (And) if you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger if you believe in Allah and in the Last Day. This is better and more suitable for final determination." (4:59)

 

we Muslims need to worry about kick-starting a dialogue amongst ourselves and agreeing on one policy, one reference point and one Islamic mufti.

 

We have ONE POLICY..brother it is called QURAN and Sunnah!. Every Muslim has to live his or her life according to the teachings of the Quran and Sunnah. Our Prophet Muhammad s.c.w has said: "None of you can become a true believer until his desires become subordinate to what I have brought." The best way to benefit from the Holy Quran and the hadith’s of the prophet is to go on changing our life-styles and mending our ways in accordance with its teachings. However, It is clear most of the Muslims today view them as just books to read and shelf in a cabinet. When it comes to policies or reference points they go in the library and read what encyclopedia Britannica said. Second thing brother, whether we have One mufti or thousand muftis, Every Muslim is responsible to learn his /her religion and know how to protect themselves from shirk and bid cah (innovations). This is not the type of religion where the priests are the holy ones and everyone else takes the blessings from them. I hope you understand. I am not undermining you here, All I am saying is, What the culumaa are giving you has to be authentic hadiths and verses from the holly quran. Another thing, I don’t agree with having just one mufti or sheikh….it is like saying lets have One grocery store for the whole nation, which doesn’t make sense. We need to have as many culumaa and scholars as possible, but refer to ONE MESSAGE. I hope that is clear.

[Asxabul_kahf]

Also I would like to add, The muslim ummah is missing all the elements of quwwah' that allah has prescribed in the quran. Each one in detail will take forever, So i suggest you read upon it, It is the different clues missing from your long discussions.

 

1. Iman with correct Aqeedah.

2. Repentance

3. Sabr with ibadah (of course)

4. Sacrifice

5. Dacwah (by All)

 

They are the qualities that are missing from the muslim ummah, which we need to work hard on gaining back. Others such as love, unity, power and wealth, there are the fruits of these quilites

 

Please forgive me insha allah, And may allah guide us in the right path.

 

salama aleykum

[NGONGE]

^^^ Still as vague as ever. Now, I don’t disagree with a word you said there. But, how do you propose to apply it to our current situation? What are you suggesting that the angry Muslims that saw (or heard about) those filthy cartoons do? Are you preaching patience? What exactly is your proposal for TODAY? Remember that people are acting regardless of what you say. Many already believe they have repented and returned to Allah’s ways. Many more believe they’re using the Quran and Sunna as their reference points. What do your vague (in this context) words mean?

 

I’ve given you the example of all those Islamic groups for a reason. They all believe they’re following the correct teachings of the holy book and the prophet’s sunna (yes, even the Shiia). How do your words differ from theirs?

 

I know it might need a whole thread to clarify your words and position, but since you’re doing it for good reasons and intentions, I’m sure you’ll find the time and words to be through with your advice. Give it ago and don’t hold back, saaxib.

 

Edit:

Your second post as even more ambiguous than the first. It’s as if I’m asking you how to cook a nice meal and you’re providing me with a shopping list without any instructions of how to cook the wretched meal. Put your apron on and start cooking, brother. Lets see if what you recommend will be as tasty as you imply.

[Khayr]

Originally posted by NGONGE:

^^^ Still as vague as ever. Now, I don’t disagree with a word you said there. But, how do you propose to apply it to our current situation? What are you suggesting that the angry Muslims that saw (or heard about) those filthy cartoons do? Are you preaching patience? What exactly is your proposal for TODAY? Remember that people are acting regardless of what you say. Many already believe they have repented and returned to Allah’s ways. Many more believe they’re using the Quran and Sunna as their reference points. What do your vague (in this context) words mean?

 

I’ve given you the example of all those Islamic groups for a reason. They all believe they’re following the correct teachings of the holy book and the prophet’s sunna (yes, even the Shiia). How do your words differ from theirs?

 

I know it might need a whole thread to clarify your words and position, but since you’re doing it for good reasons and intentions, I’m sure you’ll find the time and words to be through with your advice. Give it ago and don’t hold back, saaxib.

 

Edit:

Your second post as even more ambiguous than the first. It’s as if I’m asking you how to cook a nice meal and you’re providing me with a shopping list without any instructions of how to cook the wretched meal. Put your apron on and start cooking, brother. Lets see if what you recommend will be as tasty as you imply.

The shreeking noises of Ngonge don't need a response-every second, of every minute!

 

Smile a little saxib and show a little gentleness-at times. A good teacher needs to show a little patience and kindeness towards his Students.

[sheherazade]

Originally posted by Castro:

^ I'd be interested to see your response.

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by sheherazade:

Indeed I have come to this conclusion- to keep silent. The discussion revolving around Islam and Muslims has become buuq for me. EVERYBODY'S A CRITIC.

If "everybody's a critic", good Sheh, that makes you one too. What's the point of being a silent critic? That's a contradiction in terms, no? Is this also why our resident sheikh Nur avoids many volatile, but serious, issues and focuses, instead, on matrimonial bliss, Xalimo and Faarax hook up strategies and some such popular but trivial nonsense?

 

No offence intended to Nur. I'm just curious.

 

I do not hold my views in such regard that I feel the need to air them at every opp. I don't fancy being part of every buuq/baaq discussion however serious. I can only be a critic if I voice my critique.

 

I dare not speak for Nur; merely speaking to him has all manner of fan and foe speaking on his behalf, my behalf and causing a whole hell of a lot of buuq. Mara waxda fi sana is all I can abide.

 

BTW, as we are all here to discuss issues deep and shallow, I find the driving force behind most of the debating is ultimately how well one puts their case and less so about the matter itself. An opinion is a very personal thing and man will do all he can to be heard, acknowledged and appreciated. Ever wonder what a discussion minus the ego and personality would sound like? Dull, quiet and short.

[Asxabul_kahf]

salama aleykum

 

 

Read the quran, you will find your answer.

 

 

jazakumulaha kheyran.

[sheherazade]

It doesn't get better than this.

[Legend of Zu]

Originally posted by sheherazade:

quote:Originally posted by NGONGE:

As things stand, it’s a free for all. In such a case, regrettably, silence is the best course of action.

 

Salaaam.

Indeed I have come to this conclusion- to keep silent. The discussion revolving around Islam and Muslims has become buuq for me. EVERYBODY'S A CRITIC.

That is the same course I have opted. my initial thought was to respond and partake this debate until i read the majority of what the debators wrote! and it occured to me that it wasn't about how to strengthen the islamic world, it wasn't about the prevention of similar events to occur in the future and definately it wasn't about what is the rightous approach. Silly me, it was about "Ooh I am Angry..look at me..I love the Prophet (SAW)..I'll instill fear in the hearts of Infidels so they wont abuse the Propohet Again!"

 

As if they don't know there are thousands of Books that abuse and defame the Prophet (SAW)...and what were their response...I wonder?

 

It seems like many ppl are happy to show their pain rather than look for cure or show strength at the times of animosity!

 

Cheers

[Kashafa]

^ That's the whole purpose of a discussion forum, yaa Legend. To allow those who want to froth at the mouth to froth and those who want to pontificate to pontificate. Ignore the ranters and if you can't, blast'em

[Khayr]

Salams,

 

Originally posted by Legend of Zu:

That is the same course I have opted. my initial thought was to respond and partake this debate until i read the majority of what the debators wrote! and it occured to me that it wasn't about how to strengthen the islamic world, it wasn't about the prevention of similar events to occur in the future and definately it wasn't about what is the rightous approach. Silly me, it was about "Ooh I am Angry..look at me..I love the Prophet (SAW)..I'll instill fear in the hearts of Infidels so they wont abuse the Propohet Again!"

 

As if they don't know there are thousands of Books that abuse and defame the Prophet (SAW)...and what were their response...I wonder?

Just because there is a Mass abundance of GARBAGE, does not mean that you One SHOULD Accept that GARBAGE and be COMPLACENT about it. One should Clean up that GARBAGE, according to their CAPACITY-that should be the Muslim Motto and it is not a sign of Hypocrisy that one- can't clean up All the Garbage or blast all 4billion people who might contribute to that Garbage.

 

Fi Amanillah