Cartoon Protest in London...

[Caano Geel]

^

the point is not about the insult and hurt caused by the depictions. But how we conduct ourselves to raise our concerns. Exactly what effect will be expected from carrying a 'Europe:The Real Holocaust is coming Soon' placard, or burning down a building?

[Ibtisam]

salamz

 

i have not read all. But

 

Laab_xinnyod

 

If and that’s a big IF you were one of the people who demonstrated on Friday, Then you are nothing but a fame seek individual. What you did has no support or evidence in the quran and sunnah. Your manner was insulting, and it is people like you who undermine all the peaceful work the rest of muslims did and still doing in this campaign. You did nothing but prove ignorant non-Muslims by giving them a distorted view of Islam. Serving one function alone, that of "rent-a-bogeyman" to prove Muslims were "unreasonable fanatics". Who did not value anything other than violence!

 

It was disgusting to see Muslims spouting their evil on national TV, helping the cartoonists who demonised the Prophet PBUH by making non Muslims think we are all some crazed fanatics who want to “kill the infidel†and harm more people with another bombing in London. Shouting "UK you will pay, bin laden on his way"

:mad: how could you then come here and brag and boast of such *s*t*u*p*i*d*i*ty* :confused:

 

It was wrong that the BBC did not make it clear that they were nothing but a racist, evil, fringe of thugs less representative than the BNP, and it's wrong that we Muslims have not dealt with them once and for all.

you all wanted to get onto the Media to promote your hate and demonise Muslim's further, this was highlighted by the fact that when the story broke you all camped outside the BBC – tell me that isn't a deliberate ploy to get attention?

 

You should be ashamed of your self and it is people like you i called extremist.

:mad:

[NGONGE]

Originally posted by Kashanre:

Ngonge-

 

On the first part of your commentary; democratic governments do not necessarily wield control over the press but they

do

generally, and especially western governments, hold influence over it when the image of the state is at stake. I cannot stress that point enough. The Danish government is not responsible for what that paper printed, but they

are

responsible for their initial support of the "caricature" and their willingness to ridicule and trample on the beliefs of a million plus people on this earth. The Danish prime minister laughed and turned away a delegation of Muslim ambassadors in the beginning, but then came running as soon as the heat was turned on. The Danish government became part of the problem sxb, the freedom of press was a lattar ruse.

 

Here in the United States, I am completely convinced the State Department had something to do with the non-existence of those cartoons in the American media. There is a fine line between what constitues freedom of the press and what constitutes slander/libel. The more sophisticated and advanced the state, the sooner the distinction could have been drawn and the situation pacified. The faster one realizes that aspect of the problem the more clearer one sees the situation for what is sxb.

 

As for the second part of your commentery; I but have

one question to ask. Had the cartoons been about the Holocaust and Jews, would the response from the Danish goverment and initial response from the rest of the western world have been the same? Therein lies the answer that justifies the Muslim world's passionate response saaxiib.

 

You stand up for what you believe sxb. However and in any mean you can. Appeasement only hurts

you.

Again. I fully disagree with both your arguments. You need to be following the news closely, saaxib. The Danish government apologised the minute the protest was lodged with them. They agreed it was unacceptable and made clear that they did not share the newspaper’s views. However, they refused, point blank to restrict that newspaper’s ability to print whatever it liked (because it was within that state’s law). You need to google, buy old newspapers, check out Islamic media sources (and whatever else that will make you believe that such events took place). Don’t even attempt to move ahead with this argument before you researched and made sure you understand how things unfolded. By the way, this is not about the Danish government’s motives. They’re not Muslim and it’s conceivable that they were gleefully pleased at what that paper printed. However, officially, they did declare their dissatisfaction with it and that’s all we can go by for now.

 

I say, and you’ll confirm this once you’ve done your research, that our protesting Muslims wanted an assurance from the Danish government that the paper will be gagged, punished or forced to issue an apology. The Danish government refused THIS request and cited it’s own democracy and constitution for such a refusal. Still, even now (and I repeat this for the tenth time), neither the Danish government nor the paper concerned have issued a FULL apology and promised not to repeat the offence. However, we’re all (you and many of the protesters) treating this as some sort of victory! This, my brother, was the deal that was put on the table in the first place and it’s quite tragic that all this commotion took place only for us to turn round and declare our happiness and satisfaction that we got something out of the Danish. We got NOTHING. Again, don’t shake your head angrily and dismiss my words. Go back and read the news all the way from September 2005 until now to see that what I’m saying is the truth, the full truth and nothing but the heartbreaking truth.

 

On your second point about the state being able to influence the media. You display an uncharestarectic naivety on the workings of democratic societies! Decades of democratic rules and libertarian laws have ensured that the media is the strongest thing and most powerful in democratic societies. It’s not the government that influences the media, it’s the other way round, saaxib. Why else do you think Robert Murdock is one of the most powerful men on earth today? That Danish paper had set out its stall for a fight and knew it was going to get one, had the Danish government intervened, it would have only hurt itself. The media is what makes governments, not the other way round, saaxib.

 

Now, let me for a minute wax lyrical about the preposterous argument that almost everyone has been using to justify the protests. I’m talking about the Jews of course. The popular argument goes that if this was done to the Jews we would not have heard the end of it. Too right we wouldn’t. However, do you think it would have followed the same scenario?

 

Let me give you an example here. One that will appear as if I’m praising the prudence and farsightedness of the Jews no less. Last summer, the Israeli Prime Minster decided to unilaterally withdraw from some of the occupied territories. He was going to destroy a few settlements and show the world that Israel was committed to peace. The fact that he was also claiming other bigger, better and more strategic settlements in the West Bank is besides the point here. The point I’m making is that he did go ahead with this withdrawal. The rest of the world was impressed with this man’s single-handed efforts for peace (a masterstroke if you ask me). Many Israelis were too. However, all the Israelis on the extreme right (and there are far too many of those) did not agree with this plan. Moreover, the people losing their illegal settlements also vowed never to leave ‘their’ houses and lands without a fight. Demonstrations and protests were organised. Threats were made and fortifications were put in place. But, when the day for the withdrawal came, hardly anyone got injured or killed. The Israeli army, when it had to evacuate the angry settlers, did their utmost (mainly for the benefit of the cameras) in showing how gentle and tolerant they are. They shed tears as they forcibly removed their fellow citizens from those settlements and quickly (and, seemingly, efficiently) brought that whole thing to a satisfactory (in their eyes) end. If you follow the news and know what happened next, you’ll know that the eruptions resulting from that decision (to withdraw from Gaza) carried on all the way to the Israeli Knesset and caused the dismemberment of the Likud party. There are clear divisions in Israeli politics now because of that decision (though I believe it to be a mere tactical move on the part of Arial Sharon). Still, throughout all of this, hardly any Jews were killed, any Jewish property destroyed (other than the settlements of course) and any damage done to the Jewish image in the eyes of the rest of the world. On the contrary, this actually made them look good and sensible as opposed to the seemingly ‘savage’ Palestinians!

 

You rhetorically ask: had the cartoons been about the Holocaust and Jews would the response been the same from the Danish government and the Western world? Seeing that it is a question you (and I) already know the answer to, I shall not bother to answer it. However, I shall instead deal with why things are so. The Jews, you see, would not have come out in such demonstrations and waved placards promising another eleventh of September and other nonsense. The most you would have got from them would have been a few press conferences where they criticise the world for condoning such offensive rubbish and threaten to take their case to the highest courts of whatever lands. They would have then, slowly, covertly and very diligently have gone about the business of punishing the perpetrators. Rest assured that if that Danish paper had insulted the Jews, it would have got easily punished. But, where WE differ from them is that we protest for today and never plan for tomorrow. The Jews would have worked towards changing the laws that allow such a paper to insult them in such a way. This is why Austria (which is no lover of Jews) has laws that forbid anti-Semitic utterances. You think the Austrians, out of the goodness of their own hearts decided to install such laws?

 

Holocaust arguments aside, it’s no secret that the Jews were hated and mistreated in Nazi Germany (and Austria) before the Second World War. They were; in fact, not very popular in many other parts of the world either. However, because Herr Hitler was foolish enough to declare war on almost the entire world, the proverb that says ‘my enemies enemy is my friend’ came into play and the Jews were welcomed with open arms by the Allies (you need to go back and read British newspapers prior to 1930 to see how much the Jews were hated back then). They then, as the war progressed (and because many of them were talented) went about pleading, granting favours and buying loyalties to make sure that nothing like what happened in Germany would ever happen to them again. There was no lashing out; rather meticulous long term planning that is bearing fruit today. They did it for Judaism and not for the Jews that lived at that time. Because, like how we believe with Islam, they believed that Judaism was for all time and not only today. Compare and contrast if you will.

 

I am no fan of Jewish conspiracies or their ability to control the world. For that, you’ll need to go and read the efforts of other Nomads. What I am a fan of is COMMON SENSE. The Jews, Christians and countless other groups always try to fight their cases with calm and long term planning. Ours, as evidenced by this case and the dozen others throughout the years has always been a reactionary response with no plans whatsoever.

 

This mentality of doing something for the sake of doing something has to stop if we ever want to achieve things. This business of standing up for what you believe in, by any means, is nothing but empty talk. Because, saaxib, if you have been paying attention, it has never been ‘by any means’, it has always been by violence and pointless anger. Be true to your words and try to consider the other means. The pointless rage is what got people to burn the Embassies in Syria and Lebanon. It’s what got them to destroy and burn the cars of civilians in Christian neighbourhoods in Lebanon (civilians who for the most part were sympathetic to the Muslim cause). It’s what got them to burn shops and businesses (and even schools)! It’s what got the numbskulls to carry banners threatening further bombings in London!

 

As for your appeasement charge, it’s quite amazing that this is what you gleaned from all my words on this topic. What’s even worse is that, true to type, the minute you get angry about something concerning Islam and someone tells you that your anger is futile, you come out with such nonsense. Such angry nonsense is exactly the logic those that burn fellow Muslim property and shops use, saaxib. As you can clearly see and have just demonstrated yourself, this anger only serves to divide and erode on Islam rather than defend it and strengthen it. Will any of what I say ever make sense to you?

 

PS

I don’t passionately write all these words for the pleasure of reading my own words. I’m trying to drum some sense into your sentimental heads here.

 

 

PPS

I have written 1671 words above (thank god for word count). Lets hope some of them trickle through.

[Alle-ubaahne]

NGONGE WROTE,

 

You display an uncharestarectic naivety on the workings of democratic societies! Decades of democratic rules and libertarian laws have ensured that the media is the strongest thing and most powerful in democratic societies. It’s not the government that influences the media, it’s the other way round, saaxib.

Saaxiib, your linguestic tone appears to be very native liberal and born-westerner in nature, but fortunately we know the root causes of your "I know everything about the west's intentions, and you know nothing" laakiin, don't try that on us, saxib. The war has begun.

[-Lily-]

^^^ War mongers.

 

Did anyone watch the demonstrations by the Danish ppl, to apologise & call for peace?

[Alle-ubaahne]

^^ Adaa dagaal ooge ah!

 

Waa inaan aarsanaa oo aan weeraro culus qaadnaa

[NGONGE]

Originally posted by Alle-ubaahne:

NGONGE WROTE,

 

quote:

---

You display an uncharestarectic naivety on the workings of democratic societies! Decades of democratic rules and libertarian laws have ensured that the media is the strongest thing and most powerful in democratic societies. It’s not the government that influences the media, it’s the other way round, saaxib.

Saaxiib, your linguestic tone appears to be very native liberal and born-westerner in nature, but fortunately we know the root causes of your

"I know everything about the west's intentions, and you know nothing" laakiin, don't try that on us, saxib. The war has begun.

It warms my heart to know that you read EVRY word I write, saaxib. With you, I don’t even expect you to agree or show indifference. As long as you read it all, I am happy. I fully appreciate the power of the mind and its ability to store and retain information that it abhors and disagrees with. Have you never sat there humming songs you’ve heard as a kid and as you hummed them you wondered why such a song suddenly came back to you? You sit and question yourself and with thinking you remember that when you first heard the song, you didn’t even like it! Now, you’re finding yourself happily humming it and wondering why you never found this song great the first time you heard it. Or like the irate old man who when telling off his son, he would see the son nod and say ‘insha Allah, aabo, insha Allah’. The old man gets really angry and says to the son, ‘ whenever I tell you to do something you keep saying insha Allah! Don’t think you can trick me with those words. War waxad tedhaahda, hadi Allah idmoâ€! Of course, the old man went all his life without knowing that insha Allah meant exactly that. It’s only when his son explained it to him that he knew what he didn't’ all those years. One day, my good friend, you too will know the meaning of Insha Allah.

[Caano Geel]

^ u baahne ninyahow maad iska aamustid. Afka markaad furtid dameer naacdiisa uun baa kaa soo baxda

[Rahima]

As things unfold one thing becomes clear, this ummah is in great strife, more strife than I could ever imagine.

 

It’s about time that we returned to the sunnah of Rasuallah s.c.w and took some very much needed lessons. These strikes, burning and hurting of one another is really pointless. What we need are long-term actions and goals to not only combat such events (which I’m sure all who attest to the oneness of Allah are angered by) but to also raise up the status and current condition of the ummah.

 

I still fail to understand what the burning of buildings is going to do. If we are claiming to be defending the best of mankind then is it not logical that we follow his example? Rasuallah s.c.w waited patiently and planned long term even whilst the Quraish would dump intestines on him whilst he prostrated in front of the kacba to The Almighty. In that is a great lesson. When you are weak and overpowered you should be working to build up strength not throwing punches aimlessly.

 

What is the point of acting in such a manner when no one actually cares and it achieves nutta? The hypocritical words of certain governments are not worth the paper they are written on, so if they are useless then what is achieved by the reactions of the Muslims? What is the point of all this when inside our own homes we are burning ourselves from our own leaders to the man on the street. This is a larger extension of greater problems, burn Israel we say, yet all the Palestinian children are in Levi jeans and drinking away at that thirst crusher.

 

I’m awash with mixed emotions, anger, sadness and some disgust.

[Gabbal]

This is the victory. A precedent has been set and freedom of the press shalt not be a mask for anti-Islamic propaganda.

 

For the frowning internal critics, you can be silent all you want. Let those other's speak out and defend their faith in any which way.

 

 

Danish paper regrets cartoons of Prophet Mohammad

COPENHAGEN, Feb 3 : The Danish newspaper that enraged Muslims with cartoons of the Prophet Mohammad said today it would not have published the material had it known what the consequences would be.

 

''If we had known that it would end with death threats and that Danish lives could actually be put at risk, we would have naturally not have printed the drawings,'' the Jyllands-Posten said in an editorial.

 

The caricatures, one of which showed the Prophet Mohammad with a bomb in his turban, were published in September, but the row erupted only last month.

 

Some Muslims consider images of the Prophet Mohammad to be blasphemous and the cartoons have touched off a wave of angry protests around the world.

 

The right-wing Jyllands-Posten said no one could have known the full outcome of its decision to print the 12 caricatures.

 

Jyllands-Posten apologised last month for the insult caused to many Muslims but said today it ''would not apologise to the powers who have abused the whole situation to further their own agendas.''

 

 

Source

[Caano Geel]

Originally posted by Kashanre:

This is the victory. A precedent has been set and freedom of the press shalt not be a mask for anti-Islamic propaganda.

 

For the frowning internal critics, you can be silent all you want. Let those other's speak out and defend their faith in any which way.

 

Kashanre, i dont know how to say this, but what we have gained right now is a hollow victory. I remember was listening to radio on last thursday with british news paper editors saying ' the images are neither funny or clever and we dont see the point of unnessarily insulting a part of our population for them'.

 

All that violance has achieved now is given the nessecity, we're not against demonstrations or boycotts. We're against the violance, and posters that say 'the fantastic four' referring to the london bombers.

 

If the aim of the cartoonist was to portray muslims as violent savages, they failed, but the hooligans succeeded.

[N.O.R.F]

Four killed in cartoon protests

 

Four people have died in violent protests against cartoons satirising the Prophet Muhammad, following more than a week of demonstrations.

Three people died after police in Afghanistan fired on protesters when a police station came under attack, a government spokesman said.

 

In Somalia, a 14-year-old boy was shot dead and several others were injured after protesters attacked the police.

 

Further protests have been taking place from Gaza to India, Indonesia and Iran.

 

They follow attacks on Danish embassies in Syria and Lebanon over the weekend. The cartoons were first published in a Danish newspaper.

 

Monday's deaths were thought to be the first, but officials in Lebanon have now said a demonstrator died on Sunday after jumping from the third floor of the Danish embassy in Beirut to escape a fire.

 

Nationwide rallies

 

Hundreds of people took part in the morning demonstration in Afghanistan's Laghman province, in a second day of protests in the city.

 

The province's director of information, Hamraz Ningarhari, told the BBC that a policeman and a number of other people were injured.

 

Demonstrators shouted "death to Denmark" and "death to France", and called for diplomats and soldiers from both countries to be kicked out of Afghanistan.

 

"They want to test our feelings," protester Mawli Abdul Qahar Abu Israra told the BBC.

 

"They want to know whether Muslims are extremists or not. Death to them and to their newspapers," he said.

 

Across Afghanistan, hundreds protested in Kandahar and Mazar-e-Sharif, while 200 demonstrators gathered outside the Danish embassy in the capital, Kabul.

 

In the north-eastern province of Takhar, demonstrators threw stones at government buildings and police fired in the air.

 

In the port city of Bosaso, in the autonomous Somali region of Puntland, police shot dead one protester and three more were injured after demonstrators threw stones and barricaded streets outside international aid agency buildings.

 

In escalating demonstrations around the world:

 

 

A crowd of about 200 people used stones to smash windows at the Austrian embassy in Tehran, and firecrackers and smoke bombs were set off

 

In Indonesia, police fired warning shots at protesters outside the US consulate in Surabaya, the country's second largest city. Earlier, demonstrators hurled stones and broke windows at the Danish consulate in the city, and there were protests in the capital, Jakarta

 

Riot police in the Indian capital, Delhi, fired tear gas and water cannons to disperse hundreds of students protesting against the cartoons

 

Shops and businesses across Indian-administered Kashmir were closed after a general strike was called in protest at the drawings

 

In Thailand, protesters shouted "God is great" and stamped on Denmark's flag outside the country's embassy in Bangkok, the Associated Press news agency reported

 

There were protests outside the European Union offices in Gaza, following demonstrations there last week.

The cartoons first appeared in a Danish newspaper in September and caused outrage among Muslims, who consider any images of Muhammad offensive.

 

One of the cartoons shows Muhammad wearing a bomb-shaped turban.

 

Newspapers across Europe republished the pictures last week, saying they were defending freedom of expression.

 

BBC

[N.O.R.F]

South African paper cartoon ban

 

Demonstrations have been taking place around the world

A South African court has barred a newspaper from reprinting the cartoons that have provoked protests by Muslim groups in several countries.

The Sunday Times says the Jamiat-ul Ulama group first requested the paper not to publish the cartoons, though the newspaper had not decided to do so.

 

When the newspaper refused to undertake not to print the cartoons, the group brought a successful court interdict.

 

The paper wants to challenge the ruling saying it is a blow to press freedom.

 

CARTOON ROW

30 Sept 2005: Danish paper publishes cartoons

20 Oct: Muslim ambassadors complain to Danish PM

10 Jan 2006: Norwegian publication reprints cartoons

26 Jan: Saudi Arabia recalls its ambassador

30 Jan: Gunmen raid EU's Gaza office demanding apology

31 Jan: Danish paper apologises

1 Feb: Papers in France, Germany, Italy and Spain reprint cartoons

4 Feb: Syrians attack Danish and Norwegian embassies in Damascus

5 Feb: Protesters sack Danish embassy in Beirut

South Africa's constitution guarantees the right to freedom of expression.

 

On Friday, another weekly paper, the Mail & Guardian, reprinted one of the cartoons on its international news page, illustrating a story about the protests elsewhere in the world.

 

Later that day, Jamiat-ul Ulama brought an interdict against the Sunday Times.

 

"We are aware of the sensitivities regarding the cartoons, and the editorial team was discussing whether these sensitivities should be given more weight that the right of non-Muslim readers to see the depictions that had caused huge offence in other parts of the world," a statement published by the Sunday Times said.

 

"But before we came to a conclusion, we were threatened with the interdict by the Jamiat-ul Ulama of Transvaal.

 

"We declined to give an undertaking not to publish the cartoons, not because we were intent on publishing them, but because we strongly oppose the attempt by any group to edit or censor the newspaper," the statement said.

 

"We regard this as a serious blow to the freedom of the press and have every intention of challenging the ruling when the matter returns to court," the statement concluded.

 

Protests against the cartoons in Muslim countries have targeted embassies of Denmark and Norway, which were the first countries to print the cartoons which some Muslims see as blaspheming the prophet Muhammad.

[NGONGE]

The BBC is reporting that "In Somalia, a 14-year-old boy was shot dead and several others were injured after protesters attacked the police".

 

Are they sure this has something to do with the same protests?

[Foxy]

I dont know much about Denmark apart from the usual Danish pastries that I enjoy occasionally,but it seems to me that, more than few further out cry responses to the publication of certain cartoon accross the European newspapers some muslim protesters have just added to much chilli and spice to their legitimate protest.In the past few weeks All you hear is such and such Arab countries have withdrawn ambassadors from denmark. In many Muslim countries Danish goods were being boycotted. In some countries including western cities frenzied muslim civilians hit the street with abominable posters protesting that did more damage to muslims than any oneone in Denmark. From the responses, You would think Denmark had invaded a Muslim country or maybe the Danish monarchy has passed a law that banned girls from wearing headscrafs in schools. Offcourse nothing of this sort has happened. instead, a number of privately owned newspapers in Denmark pubished cartoons depicting the Prophet Mohhammed(SCWS). Despite appearing over 3 months ago, its only now that the Muslim World has woken up to this issue- one which should barely qualify as a storm in a teacup has instead become a worldwide storm of fury. I believe in January, the paper (jyllands-posten) published an apology, I might not sincerely believe in what they claimed...that the cartoons were published as a part of an going debate on freedom of press. But the reaction of so many muslim civilians and governments make one wonder. In the case of the Danish cartoons, the issue is simple one. if you dont like what you see, write a letter to the damn letter/email to the editors or stage a peaceful demonstration instead of burning flags or screaming death to so and so in an open televised media around the world..

God knows that Millions of muslims live in poverty across this wide world,muslim women are murdered in their thousands of so called dishonouring their families.....and fairly to say I dont see alot of democracy in muslim countries, let alone press of freedom.The Muslim world faces problems of many forms of order bigger than ben hur.The distinction between religion and politics in the muslim world is almost non existent..... Yet Muslims are squandering useful time and resources over 12 cartoons!!!

And yes ofcourse we all know that Islam forbids any picatural depiction of our prophet be it Moses, Jesus(Issa) or Mohammed, however such a ban does not extend to non muslim countries or newspapers operating in countries where islamic laws does not apply...simple....

Yes, the cartoons were insensitive and in a very bad taste. But they dont refelect on the entire state of any European country or Denmark for this matter. I always admire the political openess of the western world and the political freedom of speech. and Yes Lately I noted that with deep regret that the anti-Islamic expression were labled as forerunners of freedom of speech. I believe that Jyllands-posters have got a rotten taste, but that dont mean we abuse and shout death to all that beleive in freedom of speech especailly to the countries that have taken as in and have given us a second chance of co-existing with them peacefully knowing that we fled our own coutries due to what have you nameless situations.......

 

 

cheers