Islam blasted by gay Muslim peer

[N.O.R.F]

The world has gone mad i tell you :rolleyes:

 

NEW LABOUR PEER Waheed Alli has attacked Islam claiming the Quran is riddled with contradictions and the religion dominated by rituals.

 

 

Lord Waheed Alli: searing attack on Islam.

In remarks which will infuriate Muslim leaders the openly-gay Lord Alli accused clerics of being “intellectually lazy†and called for a “radical democratisation of Islam.â€

One Muslim figure who witnessed Lord Alli’s speech reacted: “I’m angry, I think he’s got it wrongâ€.

The normally low profile peer waded into the religion in a lecture called ‘Islam the Third Way’ at the Canadian Embassy on Monday night.

Lord Alli – who has previously never spoken out on Islam - attacked “Muslim reluctance to tackle the contradictions in Islam.â€

Referring to the community’s response to the London terror attacks, Lord Alli issued a stark warning. “Verbal condemnation is not enough. We can no longer be intellectually lazyâ€.

values

Lord Alli argued that Muslims must try and understand Islam better and Islam must be reconciled with the modern world, saying: “ritual has overtaken religionâ€, adding that 7th century values do not fit 20th century life.

 

Have Your Say

“The problem lies in the Quran itselfâ€, he said. “There are contradictions in Quran; we have to stop avoiding them. If you find the Hadith literally, you can kill and maim as many people you can.

"If you use Quran as literal text, you can stone a woman who has been raped and in Iran, two boys were hung up for being gayâ€.

Lord Alli, a friend of Euro trade commissioner Peter Mandleson, said that Sharia law could be a powerful defence in balancing the rights of individuals against the rights of the state.

lambasted

“In a Muslim country, I as a gay man, should be able to go to Sharia law for protection, Sharia law should be a source of protection not oppressionâ€

He called Muslims to follow “the third way†which he said was the democratisation of Islam. “We have to take individual responsibility for action, collective responsibility for our religion.

“We are today at a crossroads – modern values in Islam against orthodox values in Islam, this century will be defined by this conflict – conflict of valuesâ€

Green Party MEP Jean Lambert found his speech a useful contribution and called for Alli to speak on campuses where many tensions lie. “I think he was good, and he should go and speak to the younger people at the universitiesâ€.

However there was some scepticism from the Muslims in the audience. A young hijab-wearing student lambasted Alli for misreading the Quran and argued that Islam guaranteed rights for women.

A Labour politician said privately before the event, “I have great respect for his work in every other area, but I don’t understand why he has chosen to get involved in this debateâ€.

Voted the most powerful Asian in the media in 2005, Lord Alli first came to prominence in the media through his TV production company Planet 24.

Lord Alli, was given a life peerage at the age of 34 in 1998, became the youngest and first openly gay peer in Parliament. He has been very close to new Labour and was an outspoken critic on Section 28, the legislation that bans local authorities from promoting homosexuality.

[Valenteenah.]

LoL... meeshaad eegtidba qofbaa ka nacnacle.

 

I really don't listen to anyone who 'speaks out' about Islam anymore, regardless of their background. You hardly hear anything worthwile.

[Cara.]

One Muslim figure who witnessed Lord Alli’s speech reacted: “I’m angry, I think he’s got it wrongâ€.

Brits! honestly, I don't know how they drum up enough conviction and passion to get up in the morning.

[Valenteenah.]

You know, he probably said that with an arched eye-brow. What more do you expect?

[RendezVous]

However there was some scepticism from the Muslims in the audience. A young hijab-wearing student lambasted Alli for misreading the Quran and argued that Islam guaranteed rights for women.

While I don't normally talk to gays/lesbians and others, all issues that must be addressed MUST follow the quraan and sunnah.This fellow thinks there were no GAYS before ISLAM...

 

Does he know about Prophet Lot's era.

 

Everything is in the Quraan and Hadeeth..There is nothing like 21st Century or 7th century..Drinking/sex/science/parenthood/brother/sisterhood/neighbours/women/men/rights/books etc

 

So we MUST three times before coming with outburst that will bring you problems in this world and hereafter.

[Gabbal]

Norf, am I mistanken or did you say "Muslim peer"?

 

I don't even get worked up by these kinds of things anymore. It's the end of time people, end of time. Feel sorry for these people and pity them, but let them lose their voices over nothing. Reactio is what they are looking for. Meel haka bixiso dee.

[Baluug]

Why the hell would I listen to anyone who calls himself "lord"?

[Jacpher]

Gay Muslim?? Islaanimada wax walba ma lagu lamaanin karaa?

[FatB]

lol i pitty the fool

 

tho the right think to say would be may allah bring him into the light and open his eyes to the truth..

[Caano Geel]

now lets put the gay and his 'third way' thing to one side,

 

and if we are willing to think for a moment i think its simple to realise that religion and faith are two very different things, you can have a religion with out having much faith and faith in something with out religion.

 

Islam has a great intellectual heritage. It was the enterprise of early muslim empires that kindled the foundations of the modern science and politics, their debates and searches for new knolwedge led to the examination of lost knowledge (greek philosophy and so on) and its extension.

 

The foundations of the hadiths is not theological but intelectual, i.e. people asking how does and an action correspond with text and how much support does my interpertation get from my peers.

 

Now having said that, i believe the point the man is making is that we are ignoring this heritage of debate. And i anticipate a flaming for this, but amogst Islams strengths has been its ability to foster debate and encourage understanding from the basis that people are different, they have different cultures which also influence their lives. So implicitly it accepts difference, look at the variety of culture and norms in the islamic world, what they have in common is small compared to what they differ in, but they are still able to come to basic understanding, and crutially these evolve and change with time and new knowledge.

 

The point in this is that religion is too complex a concept for anyone to claim full comprehension. If you want to test this, examine your life and see how it fits with a literal word-for-word translation of the quran. Then ask your self how you reconcile the differences.

 

I think judgment is the most interesting in this, i remeber reading an article (which i cant find now), about why every adulterer is not stoned to death and every theif does not have their arm cut of. The point the author was making was that life is complex and religion even more so, and serves as a guide with which you cant escape the need for individual deliberation and common sense - further this is partly the point, you have to constantly ask yourself how does what i know and believe help me judge the situation, otherwise you have to disengade your brain.

 

And this is the basic point. Modern muslims are too often willing to ignore of hard questions leaving it to others to make the decison for them or relay on an incomplete understanding of literal text. And if you say you completely relay on the literal quran, your saying that you know and understand its every subtlety and nuance, and this such an objective i beleive is impossible for any one us, since we always to fall back on faith when knowledge is not enough.

 

Ahura, how can you hear anything worthwile, if you dont listen to anyone that 'speaks out'. callypso, Kashanre, Liban,tHe oNe aNd OnLy, by be-litteling his argument you effectively dis-engading your self from the debate, how does what you believe have any significance or do you expect to have an environment which respects and responds to you needs if your not at least willing to express them. Rendez-vous on this point least is willing to express - though i fear he may not be the one throw a stone when the adulterer is brought in.

[RendezVous]

Originally posted by Caano Geel:

Rendez-vous on this point least willing to express - though i fear he may not be the one throw a stone when the adulterer is brought in.

Sure Caano..What I think is supposed to be done is:

Let anyone in this world come with a certain problem with his/her life or even continue with ANTI-ISLAM propagandas here and there.ISLAM gets stronger by talks on TERRORISM, WOMEN...like Women are "Hijabified"..women are harrassed or have no right..and so on.Now after a lot of hullabaloo...They realized ISLAM is the best religion as far as women are concerned.They kept quite..Now they are talking about TERRORISM AND even "A MUSLIM GAY " has the guts to add a bit to our ways of life.

 

For sure, The last solution will be to go back to what the Holy Quraan and Sunnah say..

 

In this 21st century as some like to call..the things mentioned in the HOLY QURAAN are still the same same things there now.Except for modifications..Clubs were belly dancing troupes of Carabta.. "drinks"..Khamrada are now properly manufactured..with nice labels..women are encouraged to be skinny and strip..for VALUE...Thiefs are on loose..no cutting of hands..prostitutes are on swing..GAYS were even there thousand of years before Prophet Mohamed saw..(During Prophet Lots)..so on and so forth.

 

Alhamdulillah we have to come with a solution from the quraan and Hadeeth.When the prophet was delivering the last sermon before he died, he encouraged us:

 

NEVER LEAVE THIS TWO THINGS: THE HOLY QURAAN AND SUNNAH

 

Meaning that should there be any confusion within ISLAM..we should infact go back to the books.

 

Labelling this "ka lord" a .."MUSLIM GAY PEER"..

 

First a gay can never be a muslim coz he is already committing unlawful things in life while knowing it is against ISLAM.This GAY surely never prays..IN ISLAM we are told...The difference between US(muslims) and THEM(non-muslims) is SALAH(prayers)..anyone who leaves prayer is a non-muslim..So there is no way they can call him "A MUSLIM GAY PEER" unless the newsmedia wants to associate ISLAM with gays..

 

So do u wanna tell me this so-labelled "MUSLIM GAY PEER" is still a muslim...?When you answer that, I will be happy to go on..

 

Brother NUR may be able to help us on this issue.

 

Wallahu aclam.

[Blessed]

Caano Geel

 

Whilst I agree with on the point of debate, I'm not sure if Ali and Islams detractors are to be taken as lights of guidance on the matter. They all have the dislike for ‘orthodox’ Islam and a love for self expression in common. As one of Irshad Manjis (none Muslims) critiques said, they want their own religion.

 

This is not to say that we shouldn’t question Muslims understanding Islam, explore the different interpretation and question what we are given by scholars within the bounds of the sharia. Islam is a religion of understannding and knowledge.

 

The other day, I was on a Muslim forum where some none Muslims were asking some tough questions and the only response they got were ‘I heard’, 'it is said' and comments along those lines. Sadly, we really lack understanding of our deen and need to work on it. On that we agree.

 

 

However, we as Muslims have a right to dismiss the lament of one who states the following with regards to the word of Allah.

 

“The problem lies in the Quran itselfâ€, he said. “There are contradictions in Quran; we have to stop avoiding them. If you find the Hadith literally, you can kill and maim as many people you can.

Pure disrespect!

 

It’s clear this individual is not in the least concerned with the preservation of the intellectual heritage of Islam, rather he wants to pervert it to suite his lifestyle. The much is clear. May Allah guide him

[Caano Geel]

vous le vous

So do u wanna tell me this so-labelled "MUSLIM GAY PEER" is still a muslim...?When you answer that, I will be happy to go on..

I'm afraid i cant give a definitive answer to that, i believe nor can you. We may say what we think is right or wrong, but ultimately only allah will know

 

B.

 

the provision or the lack of orthodoxy for its own sake i dont think is ever a good stance.

That said, its a sad norm that the most difficult debate/questions mostly comes from the frindges of a society. Its these people that are most disenchanted - the middle ground is normally content. Therefore we have two options:

1. reject them and say aaah well they are too radical any way and have lost their way.

2. engade them and ask why they have their opinions and he try to understand what it tells about our society. This way at least you take the lead in the debate.

 

and yes we do have the right to dismiss but we should be so quick to do it. For example, there may be literal contradictions in the quran but to say with any conviction that the quran contains absolute contradictions, would require i understand a logical basis to examine it and know all the its intentions. therefore with such text, there can only be contradictions in my interpretation.

[Yeniceri]

In elementary school, they taught us the "connecting the dots" exercise. Let's connect the dots on this character and find out what really irks him:

 

gay Lord

Alli accused clerics of being “intellectually lazy†and called for a “radical democratisation of Islam.â€

"If you use Quran as literal text, you can stone a woman who has been raped and in Iran, two

boys were hung up for being

gay

â€.

A gaylord wants "radical" reform in Islam, because, apparently, the millions of Muslims who've been practicing the religion for over 1,400 years are all wrong, and he, in all his gayness, is right. And the timing can't be too far off: his call for gay rights in Islam comes amidst the "homosexuals in the priesthood" controversy that continues to ruin the founding morals of the Catholic Church of late.

 

Coincidence? Perhaps.

[RendezVous]

^^^Those who quote HOLY Qur’an verses with the objective of criticizing it and Islam do not need to be abused but RATHER to be challenged to substantiate their claims.Some interpret QURANIC verses according to their whims and fancy. These people have no objectivity but malice and prejudice.

 

CHECK THE FOLLOWING INTERPRETATIONS AND THEIR MOTIVES AGAINST ISLAM..

 

1. When the Holy QURAAN writes about SELF DEFENSE OR AGAINST WAR like in the following verses:

 

“Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loves not aggressors.†Al-Qur’an 2:190

 

“And those who, when great wrong is done to them, defend themselves.†Al-Qur’an 42:39

 

They say ISLAM promotes TERRORISM

2.When the Holy QURAAN writes about HIJAAB, keeping modesty and protecting women from filth like in the following verse:

 

24:31

"“And say(O Mohamed) to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what must ordinarily appear therof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husbands' fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers, or their brothers' sons or their sisters' sons, or their women.."

 

They say ISLAM covers women

3. When The prophet Mohamed (saw) says in his HADEETH(traditions of the prophet) about HOW WOMEN ARE VALUED IN ISLAM and are treated nicely like:

 

""The best among you is the one who is the best towards his wife"

 

The prophet talking to his daughters:

 

"‘O my daughter, you are about to leave the home in which you grew up, where you first learned to walk, to go to a place you do not know, to a companion to whom you are unfamiliar. By marrying you, he has become a master over you, so be like a servant to him, and he will become like a servant to you".

 

and also:

 

"‘O my daughter, if a woman were able to do without a husband by virtue of her father’s wealth and her need for her father, then you of all people would be most able to do without a husband, but women were created for men just as men were created for them"

 

They still say WOMEN have no rights, are harrased

So on and so forth..

 

So when a MUSLIM GAY says something...we will still find it in THE HOLY QURAAN AND HADITH.

 

Don't worry..