Have you ever thought something like this for Somalia?

[cubano]

I know SNM was very strong, but I didnt know they defeated WSLF.

Are you sure?

[Old_Observer]

17 hours ago, Xaaji Xunjuf said:

Observer the difference between SNM and SSDF is purely. SNM was an independent rebel movements the Ethiopians had absolutely no infuance on our leadership constitution charter flag and our goals. We only used diredawa and harar as head quarters. We bought our weapons from the derg. With our own money our diaspora in England middle east were sending our business folks in djibouti and saudi arania.SSDF  was a xabashi movement they were to weak and surrenderd to afweyne they didnt even fight. That why SSDF is known sii soco soo soco dumarka u faan.SNM  was fighting on two fronts against afweyne in Somaliland and against afweyne WSLF clanish militia we wiped the floor with them total anihilation in 1983.. at the same time we were working on burcoduuray operation mandheere prison break colonel cabdilahi askar break out.

 

WSLF was in so many directions then on its own. We only say WSLF because of the personalities involved. And because most WSLF people had contacts with Ethiopian rebels from different parts, would be difficult for SNM to work with them.

BTW SSDF also had contacts with Ethiopian rebels, that was one factor Mengistu was hating them.

[Old_Observer]

13 hours ago, cubano said:

I know SNM was very strong, but I didnt know they defeated WSLF.

Are you sure?

Cubano,

WSLF is just a general term or name. The leadership was at those times in different organizations. UWSLF for example is from WSLF influence so is ONLF and others.

[Old_Observer]

On 7/3/2018 at 6:22 PM, maakhiri1 said:

I see alot of  retards trying to rewrite history.

That is what happens when the history has no clear chapters or did not get into any significant breaks.

Everyone goes back and modifies it to fit to today. People don't have commonly accepted break points.

[Old_Observer]

5 hours ago, Amigos said:

The reason most Somalis look down on SSDF was because they were the only militant group to surrender to Afweyne. Say what you want about SNM and USC, but they finished what they started.

You see. Exactly what I am saying. Propaganda and what really happened are totally different and sometimes the opposite. When Eritrea and Ethiopia got to war there were Ethiopian opposition that left Eritrea and Eritrean opposition that left Ethiopia.

Its incumbant on any nationalist to ask, do I fight my country siding with another country or I go back to my country and struggle from inside. The same choice ONLF was faced in kililka.

Let me ask you one simple question:

Can you list all the organizations 1 to...what ever you want to list, as no.1 most Somali nationalist to last one total tool of foreign interest?

BTW if what they finished is waht they started USC should have abondoned what they started. You don't break a country unless you have a means to put it together. If you knowingly broke it knowing full well you have no alternative then you should be the last one to be called nationalist.

 

The Tigray in Ethiopia gathered 200 organizations (7 of them Somali) to set up transitional government, draft a constitution and stand the country on its feet in a totally new way and structure etc.

[Dahireeto]

23 minutes ago, Amigos said:

Again, you are very ignorant. 

You actually claimed Ethiopia hated SSDF when, unlike SNM and USC, SSDF was wholly supported by Ethiopia and Libya. The merger request that came from Abdullahi Yusuf and the SNM refused was supported by Mengitsu.

Using your narrative, SSDF can never be called nationalist as it was physically supported on the ground by Ethiopian units. They surrendered to Afweyne not out of nationalism (for they were the same people who later invited foreigners to use against other Somalis), instead, they surrendered because they were bribed by Afweyne and out of sheer clannism.

In the context of Somali civil war, there were only two organisations that succeeded in what they set out to do, the SNM and USC. They ended the brutal tyranny of Afweyne. Others like SSDF started out as rebels but became collaborators that supported the very regime the were fighting. 

Complete ignorance. You have absolutely no clue of what you are talking about sir. Stay with your usual SNM propaganda and don't embarrass yourself like this again. 

 

[Old_Observer]

2 hours ago, Amigos said:

Again, you are very ignorant. 

You actually claimed Ethiopia hated SSDF when, unlike SNM and USC, SSDF was wholly supported by Ethiopia and Libya. The merger request that came from Abdullahi Yusuf and the SNM refused was supported by Mengitsu.

Using your narrative, SSDF can never be called nationalist as it was physically supported on the ground by Ethiopian units. They surrendered to Afweyne not out of nationalism (for they were the same people who later invited foreigners to use against other Somalis), instead, they surrendered because they were bribed by Afweyne and out of sheer clannism.

In the context of Somali civil war, there were only two organisations that succeeded in what they set out to do, the SNM and USC. They ended the brutal tyranny of Afweyne. Others like SSDF started out as rebels but became collaborators that supported the very regime the were fighting. 

The fact that you called yourself intelligent, tells me there is no discussion and you don't want to be confused by facts. You rely enough that you are intelligent you don't need facts, you don't need to think. That is good. I don't want to reduce your intelligence by documented facts found in the archives of Mengistu about USC, SNM, SSDF...

[Old_Observer]

" Ethiopia even managed in this period to woo Gen. Mohamed Farah Aidid, the future leader of the United Somalia Congress (USC), predominantly of the Mogadishu Clan clan, from his ambassadorial post in New Delhi in late 1988."

 

[Old_Observer]

1 hour ago, Amigos said:

And how does that even remotely support the statements you have made? Specifically:

OR:

 

You still don't get it do you? Our intelligent.

What is the point of Ethiopia fighting a D-Block in Ethiopia and bringing a D-Block to power in Somalia? Would you do it If you had the authority in Ethiopia and if you were an intelligent policy maker in Ethiopia?

Why would Ethiopia go out of its way send officials to India to meet Aidiid, support his groups which united under him later and almost bring him to power, except Mengistu himself lost power before Aidiid can get one.

Most Somalis except the ones who think it through would bet their nomadic fields to tell me that A. Yusuf was favourite of Ethiopia and not USC "most nationalist" or SNM another Somali super nationalist.

 

We are only talking here SSDF was least favored and even much obstructed movement by Ethiopia. I hope you have known that SSDF is also contains Communist party of Somalia, Workers Party of Somalia, Progressive officers of Somalia, etc.

Dahireeto,

Thank you.

 

[Old_Observer]

Reconciliation in Somalia will have to be different than one in South Africa or what is happening in a half hazard way in Ethiopia.

In Ethiopia is just a cover for alliance. The new government needs some help from Mengistu groups, a big help from Oromo groups, so under reconciliation is easiest and best way to do it.

No body cares now that Mengistu was accused of crime against humanity for which there cannot be reconciliation, but legal process only and there can only be pardon after that.

South Africa is between government and people at end of the day.

In Somalia its all kinds. Government and people, Some organizations like USC and people, Other organizations like Itihad and people (this mostly happened in kililka so can be ignored, kililka has given the payback and got even and won no need to talk no issue to resolve, has been solved by force over Aweys and co.)

The SFG should be responsible for what government did in Somaliland and Puntland (many of us don't think how bad this conflict was and how terrible the measures were), over officers in more than one occasion, on intellectuals and elders..There might even be documents unless USC has destroyed. This should be only area of SFG in the reconciliation.

The Bay and Bakool issue should have a commission just for that case. All crimes committed there by any organization should come out in the open. Anyone who participated unless clearly and in detail confesses and asks for forgiveness should never ever be allowed to participate in politics, social position, in education of any kind, community status. Before investigation is done all clans regions should sign that they will not allow anyone in their community to any participation if found participated and not fogiven.

 

 

[Old_Observer]

Who was in Mengistu Jail? And why

Bixi, Aidiid, A. Yusuf take your pick. lol

Does it make sense to you and do you now understand why Ethiopia would never choose before 1991 to ally more with SSDF than SNM and USC. Here is the order of preference of Ethiopia then 1. USC, 2. SNM 3. COUP DE ETAT, ...last SSDF.

After 1994 and even after the Bay Bakool situation 1992 All the players changed and the game changed completely. Kililka changed and that changed the relationship between Somalia and Ethiopia.

If you say Ethiopia favoured SSDF after 1992 you are correct. The reason is simple Nothing complicated:

SNM was not dedicated to rule Somalia, USC was determined to rule Somalia, but with total disregard to most parts of Somalia and in some cases the Ethiopian freedom fighters/soldiers had gotten into battles against USC due to Bay Bakool situation. SSDF was the only one who can organize a conference where most Somalis would come comfortably.

 

[Ifiye]

Gaalka dil gartiisana sii.  The secessionist Amigos has facts and real historical documents to prove his point.  OO who claims to be Tigray but actually from the caanaboore community on the other hand brings nothing except his usual cantarabaqash iyo hadalaanba wax macno sameeyneeyn.  

[Old_Observer]

THE LOVE- HATE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN MENGISTU HAILE-MARIAM AND ABDULLAHI YUSUF: DECLASSIFIED

May 13, 2015

 

By Ismail Warsame

The mutual love-hate working relations between Abdullahi Yusuf, the late President of Somalia, a former leader of now defunct Ethiopia-based exile Somali armed opposition front, the SSDF, to the Military Dictatorship of Siyad Barre, and Mengistu Haile-Mariam of Ethiopia, the Late Chairman of the Derg, the leader of Marxist oriented Military Junta that overthrew Emperor Haile-Selassie in 1974, represent and historically characterize the antagonistic-admiration relationships between the two neighbouring countries in the Horn of Africa.

Late President Abdullahi Yusuf Ahmed

On the one hand, Ethiopians despise the bold and prompt decision-making character of the Somalis, while admiring their creative, adventurous and entrepreneurial spirit, on the other hand. Somalis can’t stand the passivity, tolerance of servile and ever-delaying attitude to personal decision-making, lack of taking action and individual responsibilities of the Ethiopians, while admiring the extreme patience and deliberative character of the Ethiopians. There is a school of thought, among them, that the merger and diffusion of the two characteristics would give these countries in the Horn an advantage over other African countries to provide the competent leadership the rest of the continent needs so badly.

Col.Mengistu and Ethiopian Army Generals of the time were quite impressed by Col. Yusuf’s records of Somali Military victory in defending Somali sovereignty and territorial integrity against Ethiopian military provocations at frontiers. They wanted to learn what made him tick. Col. Abdullahi Yusuf, exceedingly politically ambitious as he was, was understandingly mesmerized by the improbable seizure of power by Mengistu, who came from very humble origins even in Ethiopian standards, to lead one of the most important countries in Africa by deposing the king of Kings, the Lion of Judah, and Emperor Haile-Selassie 1^st.

The first uncomfortable realization by the two men of their incompatibility to work together showed up when then Col. Abdullahi Yusuf, among Somali Army Officers, came to Addis Ababa early in 1978 through the facilitation of Somali Democratic Action Front (SODAF) and under the invitation of Col. Mengistu immediately after the failure of the April coup d’é·tat against the Regime of Siyad Barre. SODAF, an exile political opposition of politicians and intellectuals failed to secure popular support among Somalis, thus giving way to the formation of the Somali Salvation Front (SOSAF). SODAF later transformed itself into the Somali Salvation Democratic Front (SSDF) with the merger of other smaller opposition organizations. Post-Red Terror Ethiopia was a police state fully under the absolute control of the Derg with the uncompromising and paranoid command of the Mengistu Haile Mariam. There was a permanent night time curfew and emergency laws in force in all urban centres of the Ethiopia throughout the years of the Derg Administration. No one, foreigners, in particular, could move from one location to another without the “Pass-paper” issued by the Derg offices. SSDF leadership found this internal policy of the Regime difficult to operate under, where decisions, communication, movement of men and logistics were needed quickly and timely to meet the requirements of the frontline SSDF fighters.

Former Ethiopian president Mengistu Haile-Mariam

The 2^nd clash between the two Colonels came when SSDF secured significant military and financial support from rich, radical and leftist Arab regimes that enabled SSDF to achieve impressive battlefield victories over demoralized and badly commanded Siyad Barre’s Army. Yusuf wanted to depose Siyad Barre. Mengistu wanted to destroy Somalia. They started to measure up each other, each one suspicious of the other’s political motive. SSDF became so strong that it was an apparent state within Ethiopia with many Generals of the Ethiopian Army under the indirect influence of Col. Abdullahi Yusuf, now armed with military charisma, modern military hardware and money from Qaddafi of Libya. Mengistu felt threat coming from his military.Tigrinya and Eritrean movements stepped up military pressure on the Derg Regime from the North. Mengistu transferred top military brass from Addis Ababa to the frontlines to resist the Ethiopian rebellion, thus to try eliminate the possibility of military take-over in Addis Ababa. 

 

The 3^rd confrontation came when Mengistu and his Derg members, aware of the military expertise of Col. Yusuf, sought his advice on crushing the Ethiopian rebellion. Yusuf declined to help.

The 4^th and most serious confrontation between Yusuf and Mengistu was when the former signed a Military Pact with Arab Steadfastness Confrontation Front of 1977 to oppose the new Egyptian Policy on rapprochement with Israel and the U.S. sponsored Israeli-Egypt Camp David Accords of 1978 without notifying Ethiopia. In a separate understanding between Yusuf and Qaddafi, SSDF was to quit Ethiopia as a base in-exile and Qaddafi was to provide the logistics and training of SSDF guerrilla fighters inside Somalia, using bases to be established in the North-East. Mengistu got mad and his Foreign Minister, Goshu Wolde, claimed districts of Goldogob and Balambale as Ethiopian territories in 1985. Yusuf denounced the Ethiopian false and provocative claim. Mengistu thus moved to eliminate Yusuf, cripple SSDF, divide the Somali opposition and encourage the Issak clan-dominated Somali National Movement (SNM) to partition Somalia.

President Ahmed Silanyo of Somaliland

Before the detention of Col. Abdullahi Yusuf in October 1985, secret service agents of Mengistu tried an assassination attempt on the life of Yusuf. According to the intercepted paper trails obtained by SSDF intelligence officers at the time that I had the opportunity to see, indicated that some Somalis were involved in the plot. These included the then-Chairman of SNM, Ahmed Mohamed Mohamoud (Silaanyo) and Amina Nur Godane, the wife of Late Mr. Abdirahman Aidid, an SSDF top-ranking leftist politician, among others. The plot failed. Mengistu ordered the detention of Yusuf, who walked out of that Officers’ Corp Prison in Addis Ababa in 1991 as the Derg Regime collapsed and Prison Warders fled the premise. Abdullahi Fash, the former and one-time Somali Minister of Information during the Regime of Siyad Barre, who also defected to join SSDF and later became an Executive Member of the organization, died in detention in the same Addis Ababa prison in suspicious circumstances. Abdirahman Aidid and Abukar Haji Mohamed Hussein were murdered in Dire Dawa in 1984. Derg Regime refused to conduct an investigation and inquiries into these mysterious assassinations.

[Old_Observer]

7 hours ago, Amigos said:

I have asked you a simple question, where in the source you have linked above does it say Mengitsu "hated SSDF"?

I have specifically asked you to just point to your source and not write an essay. You still did not answer. Bizarre for someone claiming to have "documented facts"

Anyway, go and read up on the subject, you are clearly ignorant. Below are some quotations you can use to answer your question of why Abdillahi Yusuf was jailed: 

"Abdillahi Yusuf's SSDF failed to attract any substantial non-[Pirate clan] military support. Thus in 1982 Barre was able to split the group and, as a consequence, the majority surrendered in response to an offer of general amnesty and payment for their surrendered arms. Some were appointed to very lucrative posts. Ethiopia, annoyed with this development, put Abdillahi Yusuf in Jail, where he remained until Mengistu Haile Mariam was peacefully removed from power and deported and Meles Zenawi came to power." 

Source: Historical Dictionary of Somalia

"The SSDF capitulation annoyed President Mengistu Haile Mariam who put Colonel Abdillahi Yusuf and some of the SSDF leaders in jail. Colonel Abdillahi remained in jail until he was released by the EPRDF...."

Source: From Barre to Aideed

The capitulation and shameful surrender to Afweyne was the beginning of the end. 

There. Sources. See how easy it was? 

lol

Thanks to cheap hard disk and computers the internet is carrying white lies, manufactured fakes under titles that sounds "credible" especially for emotional people that just want to see what they have already in their head.

 

Even child knows A. Yusuf was arrested by Ethiopia because he told them "This is territory of Somalia, you need to remove your flag from here". That was the incident, but had always have had conflict and suspicion with Ethiopians. The only reason they kept working with him was militarily he was most likely to make an impact on Barre regime,

 

But no matter how much you dislike someone, or how much you relatively look and feel small, white lies should not be permissible culture.

 

 

[Old_Observer]

7 hours ago, Ducale said:

OO is cough by the scruff of his neck.  Making unsubstantiated claims about mengistu hating ssdf.  Ethiopia ayuu duqu ku xidhna is not evidence. Nin nacaybkaas ethiopia u haysay marnaba kuma seexdeen inuu iyagii umad soomaali ah ku soo  hogaamiyo oo waliba xasuuqey geysteen kala qaybqaato. 

 

Ma anaa waalaal mise dhaanta jigjiga ka yeedheysa? 

 

 

 

 

Not so fast my friend.

I would have expected you to at very least recognize what was quoted by our friend here is fake. At the very least why A. Yusuf was arrested. I assume anyone that knows that A. Yusuf was arrested by Mengistu knows why he was jailed. I know you always are inclined to prove that Puntland was pro Ethiopia, but at least dry facts are dry facts.