Blair: Islamic extremists have no real grievance against the West

[Blessed]

^hello..

 

So what was said? Why is the concept weak? I think, the fact that Bush was b.sing in Egypt about 'the peace process' the very day hat Israel were killing Gazzans by the dozens,whilst the Arab leaders applauded and nodded along like the good xameer they are, highlights the struggle within Muslims.

 

"What is actually happening is that our enemy is fighting back and they think they can outlast us. They think their determination is better than ours," he said.

I agree with this part, dhulkaa la idin la dhici, like all the 'super powers' before you!

[Ibtisam]

^^^^Loool Don't get arrested dear! like all super powers before you eh! loool

 

 

About the talk....Overall the event was interest, derailing in many different directions, yet focused on a new way, a new approach and attitude. Dr. Helbawy was quite admirable, touched on many different aspects of Islam and most importantly Muslim’s attitudes in the west. Although a far cry from the original ideas of the Muslim brotherhood, some of its key fundamental arguments were visible in his talk. Well received and understood by the Muslim audience (who strangely enough were a minority) however it felt short of offering a basic understanding to the non-Muslims. Nevertheless, his talk was the most focused and attempted to address the theme of the talk. This part was okay.

 

Then there was the government part, now I can be an idealist, and I can also be a liberal Muslim, yet it was not enough to make me appreciate Dr Mustafa Ceric solutions and suggestions. The talking point was that there is a conflict (always has been) between Sunni, Shia, and Al Khawariji. His bright idea was to alienate Khawariji, especially their political ideas, and at the same time create merge between Shia and Sunni authorities for one global Muslim leadership, to develop a universal peaceful Islam. to do this we must change mindsets blah blah blah, the rest you know....

 

 

Hello by the way

[Seekknowledge]

"Truthfully, a Muslim in my country today has more freedom than they do in many Muslim countries."

The guy is a psychopath but he's got a good point here.

 

Thierry aren't Salafis ruling Saudi Arabia?

[N.O.R.F]

Ghanima, take those Somalis/Ethiopians who tried to blow up trains. They lived in the UK after seeking asylum etc, lived in peace in govnt properties, worked, got free school, health services etc (even if they chose not to work). But they still wanted to blow holes in people on board a train!

 

Its one thing being mad at the govnt's foriegn policy but its quite another blowing up trains. The former is normal but the latter is blind extremism.

[Fabregas]

The man is right, grievance doesn't give you the right to blow up trains. But he is also an extremist fanatic himself, who went to war in Ieaq after praying to god and Bush though he received a direct phone call from God. Thus Blair is cunningly tryingly to Muslims with the terrror card. What he really means is that Iraqis, Afghans and others should allow their lands to be occupied, looted and warlords installed. Blowing up a train is clearly extremism, but a kid with a stone challenging Israelis with mass Tanks is also considered an extremist with no legitimate grievance.

[Allamagan]

Originally posted by -:

It is hard to take Blair seriously. His only legacy is being Bush's little B*tch.

Exactly!

 

BTW, TB's poorly encrypted messages was to reiterate or echoes of Bush's infamous either-with-us-or-with-our-enemy, you see TB used the same term us against them i.e we, christians against the muslims that was the essence of his message in short. Yes, who would take this guy seriously? :rolleyes:

[Thierry.]

Northerner has valid point, what has the innocent Tom, Dick and Harry got to do with the policies of the government and to make it even worse some of the extremist in the Muslims world target Muslims “for not standing up against the government” Algerian extremist in the 90s and my main man Alman Zawahiri are such examples. So there is a struggle of what method of reaction.

 

I don’t know if you guys have watched the documentary power of nightmares but it explains very well extremism.

 

It is quite long:

 

Part1

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=881321004838285177&q=power+of+nightmares&total=469&start=0 &num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

 

 

Part 2

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=4602171665328041876&q=power+of+nightmares&total=469&start= 0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=3

[Thierry.]

Seekknowledge Salafi Saliih means pious predecessors the companions and the three best generations after them. Saudi in their religious doctrine tries to adhere to the teaching of those three best generations but as you can understand it is very hard live up to the standard of those early generations.

 

So in short Saudi Arabia tries in their best to follow the Salafi path and collectively they are doing in the most systematic way but they still have long to go before they mirror those generations.

[N.O.R.F]

^^What do you think of the MCB saxib? They got bad press for a while after 7/7. Whats the score now? Are they being proactive in your view? Any Labour thoughts on this?

[Thierry.]

It’s been a bit calm as of lately not that many Muslim stories in the media, the MCB have taken the umbrella title literally they are accommodating all types of Muslims, which can prove to be contradictive at times but saxiib they have a long way to go before they become an organisation that is involved in the community, especially the youth have suffered under the passiveness of the MCB and as a consequence groups like Hizb Tahrir and al ghurub have taken advantage. But on a plus side some Masjid have taken matters into their hands, my local one offers free Arabic and Tajweed classes, Leyton and Finsbury park are improving a lot and attracting a lot reverts

Regarding Labour they are moving more and more towards the view of the Sufi Council, which is a shame.

[N.O.R.F]

I had a feeling that was the case. The Sufis are prepared to tow the line it seems. What we need to remember is that the MCB are not financed (as per their statements on Islam Channel) and they are all volunteers with what looks like the right intentions. I just think they have been a reactionary organisation of late and tend to point fingers at foreign policy more than actually trying to get some sort of understanding among the Muslims and non-Muslims. This is obviously upsetting the government who have adopted an us and them attitude and the MCB has followed suit.

 

With the mosques you mentioned, are they under any umbrella mosque groups? I know a lot of the mosques in Sheffield are under the same umbrella organisation and often meet to discuss many issues. This is the way forward if we can agree on it that is.

[Thierry.]

I agree I commend the work of the MCB I think they are doing what can, it easy to sit in my house a criticize them for not doing a good job, but we have to remember that most of the leadership are old men first and second generation Pakistanis that are not trained for the problems the young generation are facing in the UK. So if we want to improve them well we can also volunteer.

 

But saxiib like you said although foreign policy has some influence in the mindset of an extremist, for somebody to go and blow up a bus with women and children in it there is no excuse for that.

 

Majority of the Masjids are sponsored by the Saudi government and to be fare they have radically changed the view of the “Bengali Mosque”, “Somali Mosque” and into organisations that teach the same doctrine, must Imams are English but Educated in Saudi Islamic Universities such as Medina University”

 

Saxiib the Sufis are a joke but are winning a lot of backing from conservative right wing politicians and think tanks. I don’t know if you watched last month the report by the Policy Exchange think tank most of their bogus information came from the Sufi council.

 

Here is the link if you have not seen it

 

[N.O.R.F]

Will watch it

[Seekknowledge]

So in short Saudi Arabia tries in their best to follow the Salafi path and collectively they are doing in the most systematic way but they still have long to go before they mirror those generations.

:confused:

[N.O.R.F]

Thierry, this Policy Exchange crowd look to have written a report based on 'dodgy evidence' as Paxman put it. Its Think Tank galore with regard to anything Islam/Muslim at the moment.

 

I used to pray at the Euston Mosque and don't recall seeing any books in there apart from the Holy Quran.