Ayan Hirsi - Taking the fight to Islam

[N.O.R.F]

Originally posted by LayZieGirl:

Here we go again with the bashing, courtesy of NORTHERNER OFCOURSE. WELL DONE

Who have i bashed? What do you think AH? Do you think she is right or wrong in what she is doing? Have you read the article? What is your take on it? etc etc,,,,

 

A valued contribution none the less,,,,,,,

[Ms DD]

I dont know why they take this woman so seriously. We all know she is a liar and her family has also refuted her claims about her past.

 

But as long as she reinforces the prejudices against Islam no doubt she will be feted by the Western media whereever she next turns up, irrespective of the fact that she is a self confessed liar.

[Johnny B]

And laying is so un-islamic had u concluded , that is . nevertheless, its not about lying, as lying is not a particular trait for particular [ fill me in ], Any other reason why she shoulden't be taken seriously?

[FatB]

ok so we all agree on not taking her sirously... so why is everbody jumping up and down about this?.....

[Ms DD]

Johnny

She did not only lie about her birth date apparently, she lied about her marriage being under duress and arranged without her consent. The truth matters escpecially when youa re taking on a whole religion, and she has, apparently, little concern for it.

How sure can we (those of us who didnt go through the trouble to study Islam) be with regards to what she claims Islam potrays and says about muslim women ? I agree that in some cases women are being abused, but Islam doesn’t condone it and it is not only in the muslim community that have this problem.

 

She is just trying to gain fame, and the quickest way she thinks she can gain it is by insulting Islam and Prophet Muhammad(may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him and his campanions)

Ms Hirsi-Ali is right to take issue with domestic violence, female circumcision, equal opportunities and so forth. However, there is no need to antagonise whole communities and make up lies with regards to the faith they hold close to their heart. She is not really endearing herself to the very people she is claiming to help now, is she? She should be working closely with her community to resolve such issues through effective means. Alienating people won’t help her cause.

 

I agree with the fight for womens freedom but to insult Islam is another. Showing the problems women go through is important to tackle and stop but to insult Islam and cause riots thats another problem.

 

Its culture that you need to tackle that uses Islam to make it ugly.

 

The fight is not against Islam but against opressive cultures. Ayan Hirsi has decided that Islam is to blame. What a pity, because as intelligent as she is, she has not been able to learn more about Islam and be able to make a distiction between culture and religion. I beleive that all that she is doing is for fame and to gain acceptance in the western world,(no wonder they are supportive )or maybe out of anger over her past.

 

There are ways of fighting for women, but she certainly isnt standing up for my cause as a woman.

[Johnny B]

^And this is exactly the spirit i lost in ur previous post.

 

The issue is not about if she lied about her age etc etc.

 

I don't know Ayan in person,and i agree with you that she has a point or two regarding Muslim-Women,but the claim "to blame is the culture and not the religion" seems rationalizing the religion at best and allianates the culture.

 

What is culture and not religon has never been so obvious and crystal clear , nor has it bean clear weather Culture is part of a religion or Religion is a part of a culture.

 

Nonetheless, Since Ayan is not here , i've to ask you which is part of which?

[Ms DD]

^^ I would have thought that was obvious (or at least obvious to those who studied Islam). But to humour you, acts such as honour killings, forced marriages, FGM and wife beating arent part of Islam. A Hersi tries to persuade (albeit not convincingly) us that Islam is the problem.

[nuune]

Naagtan warkeeda in ahmiyad la siiyaba ma haboona, idinkaaba sii xayeysiinaya la qaadan wajigaa gubey.

[Johnny B]

Honour killings, forced marriages and FGM are unique problems for the modren Muslim-women of today, while wife beating is universasl.

 

Getting humoured ,i don't see how you'd address these issues unlike Ayan, without considering the theo-socio factors that help stablish these harmful social traits in the first place.

 

 

Be it Culture or Religion, according to some sociologists, certain traits can only blomster in a society either by having a sound direct usefullness or having a theological shoulder to lean on.

 

Now, i do understand that you're of the idea that 'if it's good it's Islam,if it is bad it is Culture', but can you explain why those socially harmful traits (Honour killings, forced marriages and FGM ) survived Islam, and are almost unique to the Muslim societies.?

[Fabregas]

Maybe because some poor/ignorant people have been convinced(mostly by males) that these activities are sanctioned by Islam.Thus anyone who speaks out against these activities are branded as being against Islam.There are plenty of people are speaking out against these activities especially proud muslim women.These people are quietly going about their business unlike Ayan who's whole existence and media publicity is dependant on attacking Islam, in order to reap a little money and attention from the Neo-con/Zionist circles.......

[Che -Guevara]

The woman could mock and deride the Islamic values all she wants. The more important question here should be what does this woman actually did for Muslim women?

 

Hightlighting an obvious problem doesn't mount to anything. Did she actually did anything tangible to mitigate problems faced by Muslim women?

[Valenteenah.]

I'm continually surprised by the attention given to this lady. I've have read everything she has to say and I found her lacking in almost everything - be it knowledge of the religion, integrity, intelligence or even simple common sense.

 

There is no sense in flogging a dead horse.

[Ms DD]

Originally posted by Johnny B:

Honour killings, forced marriages and FGM are unique problems for the modren Muslim-women of today, while wife beating is universasl.

You are wrong there my friend. Honour killings and forced marriages is prevalent in Sikh/Hindu communties. Honour" killings isn't an Indo-Pak phenomenon either.

Let see who also practise FGM..In Egypt Christians and muslims alike mutilate their females.

Originally posted by Johnny B:

Getting humoured ,i don't see how you'd address these issues unlike Ayan, without considering the theo-socio factors that help stablish these harmful social traits in the first place..

Unless making stuff up without researching, Islam shouldnt be an issue.

 

Originally posted by Johnny B:

Be it Culture or Religion, according to some sociologists, certain traits can only blomster in a society either by having a sound direct usefullness or having a theological shoulder to lean on..

Can i ask you where in the scriptures does it say that 'honour killing' or forced marriage is acceptable?

My point is, some twisted people in all creeds in that region practise this horrendous acts. Nothing to do with religion.

 

Originally posted by Johnny B:

Now, i do understand that you're of the idea that 'if it's good it's Islam,if it is bad it is Culture',

Sometimes i do wonder why we run when we cant even walk. I think the discussion should begin with Islam and its validity in the modern soceity. I have an inkling that Islam isnt your cup of tea.

 

Originally posted by Johnny B:

but can you explain why those socially harmful traits (Honour killings, forced marriages and FGM ) survived Islam, and are almost unique to the Muslim societies.?

Do you research here. It is not lmost unique in the muslim community.

[Pujah]

Why are you guys spending so much energy talking about this lady? She is not representing us or Islam and whatever she says will not stain our religion as Islam speaks for itself.

My suggestion is to stop giving this lady more publicity than she deserves.

[Shakti]

^ right on. Now thanks 2 u ppl, I know about this disgrace.

Here is something i found in wikipedia, about on how she become atheist, it really got me giggling on her ridiculousness

 

its says: "She considered herself a Muslim until 28 May 2002, when she became an atheist.[28] In an interview with Swiss magazine Das Magazin in September 2006, she said she lost her faith while sitting in an Italian restaurant in May 2002, drinking a glass of wine I asked myself: Why should I burn in hell just because I'm drinking this?