What's the Purpose of Life?

[Haneefah]

SB,

 

quote:

---

Furthermore, if one possesses that firm belief in his heart, there cannot be any room for suspicion, doubt and questioning.

With all due respect, that is facile arguement.

I did say 'if' one possesses that belief in his heart didn't I? This does of course entail assessing what that belief is before you wholeheartedly submit to it, and all I was saying is when one attains that belief, it's not possible for it to coexist with suspicion and doubt! If suspicion arises, then it defeats the purpose of a belief, for the belief is obviously no longer present.

 

quote:

---

In other words, the sunnah is only the application of the Qur'an. Therefore, one cannot accept the Qur'an as guidance for mankind whilst simultaneously rejecting it's application.

 

No. In other words what you're saying is the words of Allah are not enough? Isn't that what you're REALLY saying?

No, that's not what I said. Please don't twist my words. Reread what I wrote; of course exercising your comprehension skills (I'm sure you have some) would do you great justice here.

 

Now, abraar, isn't what you write above contradiction of what you said earlier (that I can follow whatever path I choose)? Or is it mean I can believe whatever I want as long as I keep my mouth shut?

Exactly how am I contradicting myself if I tell you that it's upto you to choose what to believe but you must not attack the belief system of others? Does having the right to choose what to believe also entail having the right to belittle what others believe in? Or does whatever you believe in strip you off of any moral and ethical standards?

 

Like I said before I reject the Sunnah, I explained my reasons.

I'm not trying to dissuade you from adhering to the Sunnah. It is your right to worship anything you please

. Just like it is my right to worship who I please -- God and God only.

Now, this to me sounds like a real contradiction. If that's the case and you trully believe in 'to each his own', why does this discussion continue to take place? Why do you continue to press for different answers when the nomads have clearly stated their position on the purpose of life (which is to worship their Creator). Why must you respond to their answers with "HOW SAD" and "Spitting of cosmic debris" or accuse them of lacking insight if you accept that they have every right to choose whatever path they so desire? Surely, by now you must have realized that 99.9% of the members of this site adhere to the Islamic faith and thus chances of getting differing views on such a central principle of this faith are very slim.

 

In any case, I fail to see any beneficial reason to further engage in this discussion, for I sense waxa lagugu akhrinayo oo idil inuu yahay hal bacaad lagu lisey. For that reason, I wish you luck and sincerely hope that Allah purifies your heart and bestows His guidance upon you.

 

Legend,

 

Abraar..you completely missed the point I was making...

Have I, walal? Well, I was rather sincerely interested to gain some insight to your conclusion, but it was really never an attempt to start a debate. However, it's all kheyr Insha'Allah

 

 

Johnny,

 

I feel nothing but sympathy for you. You can laugh all you want, manipulate our words as much as you like, and employ as much sarcasm against Islam and Muslims as you can, but I (and all the Muslims here for that matter) know that there will come a day when you won't have such a privilege: A day when you will plea to your Creator with tears gushing out and fear, sorrow, despair, and regret overwhelming your soul; a day when you will wish to turn back the hands of time, when you will ask for another chance. Only on that day, it will have been too late, for you will have already chosen your eternal fate and there will be no going back. So, my brother in humanity, think and reflect while you still have the chance! (of course, not with the same mindset that leads you to believe man is a product of evolution, but rather try to ascend a bit higher and liberate yourself from the satanic delusions for a change-it's a task I know, but we can help-maybe then will you be able to find your own voice and a meaning to your existence). Oh how I can't help but pity you. However, I'm more than compelled not to give up on you! See this is the beauty of my faith, I wish nothing but goodness and eternal peace for my fellow human beings, hence why a reminder is called for, for those who can think and reason with their intelligence that is.

 

Here are some signs to ponder:

 

"Allah created the heavens and the earth for just ends, and in order that each soul may find the recompense of what it has earned, and none of them be wronged."

 

"Then seest thou such a one as takes as his god his own vain desire? Allah has, knowing (him as such), left him astray, and sealed his hearing and his heart (and understanding), and put a cover on his sight. Who, then, will guide him after Allah (has withdrawn Guidance)? Will ye not then receive admonition?"

 

"And they say: "What is there but our life in this world? We shall die and we live, and nothing but time can destroy us." But of that they have no knowledge: they merely conjecture"

 

"But as to those who rejected Allah, (to them will be said): "Were not Our Signs rehearsed to you? But ye were arrogant, and were a people given to sin!"

 

"And when it was said that the promise of Allah was true, and that the Hour- there was no doubt about its (coming), ye used to say, 'We know not what is the hour: we only think it is an idea, and we have no firm assurance.'"

 

"Then will appear to them the evil (fruits) of what they did, and they will be completely encircled by that which they used to mock at!"

 

"It will also be said: "This Day We will forget you as ye forgot the meeting of this Day of yours! and your abode is the Fire, and no helpers have ye!"

 

"This, because ye used to take the Signs of Allah in jest, and the life of the world deceived you:" (From) that Day, therefore, they shall not be taken out thence, nor shall they be received into Grace."

 

"Then Praise be to Allah, Lord of the heavens and Lord of the earth,- Lord and Cherisher of all the Worlds!"

 

"To Him be glory throughout the heavens and the earth: and He is Exalted in Power, Full of Wisdom!"

 

 

I'm out!

[Johnny B]

Originally posted by Abraar:

Johnny,

I feel nothing but sympathy for you. You can laugh all you want, manipulate our words as much as you like, and employ as much sarcasm against Islam and Muslims as you can, but I (and all the Muslims here for that matter) know that there will come a day when you won't have such a privilege: A day when you will plea to your Creator with tears gushing out and

fear, sorrow, despair, and regret overwhelming your soul;

a day when you will wish to turn back the hands of time, when you will ask for another chance. Only on that day, it will have been too late, for you will have already chosen your eternal fate and there will be no going back.........

.........I'm out!

Stop ..stop..top..top....sighs heavily.

What a sympathy, thanks, but no thank you, i think i´ll do alot better without that "sympathy" of yours.

 

This, ladies and gentlemen is the kind of "sympathy" that is beeing pushed down to your throats in the name of the good.

This sympathy is beeing used to derail and force threads that would normally take a natural path, Threads are beeing pushed into a specefic path with a single line of thinking and anyone of you who shows a sign of differing stance will be haunted and accused of beeing less pious and what not.

 

The good thing is this site hosts far too many faithful Muslims who are peaceful and are so secure in their faith that they don´t need to haunt other Muslims or non-Muslims to feel good.

 

 

Originally posted by Castro:

It's not your business who believes in what. Muhammad (scw) said

lakum diinakum waliya deen

. Who are you, as 21st century cyber-mullahs no less, to call anyone a kaafir? Your words (probably your actions offline too) are nothing but contempt for others since without denigrating them you can't see yourselves in a positive light. These are telltale signs of an impotent mind and a heart darkened with sickness.

....

My purpose in life is to help alleviate the suffering of my fellow man.

Nuff said !!

[Rahima]

It’s amazing how we continue to feed the useless argumentative ways of certain nomads when we all know their views. These sorts of discussions, irrespective of original topic name have been done to death and all end up with the same conclusion.

 

Clearly, one or two nomads have their own warped thoughts of what Islam is (and some by their own accord are not even believers). Most of us know better. Educate we have tried- failure. Debating we have tried- failure.

 

I say we end it and move on. Perhaps they can discuss their own warped views amongst themselves whilst we discuss matters of importance and learn our religion more so that we do not resort to such backward ways- to actually think that we understand this religion better than the companions of the prophet s.c.w and the culimaa’ who have dedicated their lives to Islam.

[Gabbal]

^True walaal but the poltician in me wants to address one last point.

 

 

SB's response to my statment him and his friends here could not differentiate nor distinquish between Islam (a religion untainted) and Muslims (worshippers who are mere humans):

 

Actually I DO. Obviously you and other jaundiced folks here don't. I don't blame jewism for what jews are doing to muslims in Palastine, that is not REAL jewism. Same with america, I don't hold them responsible for the baleful results of their cavalier gun-ho and hegemonist policies, that is not REAL americanism. Don't you agree with me?

No, you did not understand walaal as you would not have come out with such a handicapped analogy. "Jewism" nor "Americanism" do not exist. I would hope you meant zionism and capitalism in those terms.

 

You should not blame "Jewism" for anything because the Jewish religion does not exist today nor does what is going in Palestine have anything to do with it. As a matter fact, it is the Jewish people (the race/ethnicity) not the Jewish people (Orthodox worshippers) who are causing all problems for the Palestinian people as a result of being guided by a political concept called Zionism that started out not on the basis of religion but nationiality with a set form of rules mirroring that of the apartheid.

 

As for Americanism; what is Americanism? Such a thing does not exist nor can you compare to a religion such as Islam with a clear set of tenets and laws. Rather what you had ment was capitalism and its overlords at various ruling corporate headquarters in the U.S. I still do not understand how you could have, displaying such ignorance, laughed as if you had made a point.

 

What a delightful show of the critical thinking and aptitude you have displayed here for us.

 

Johnny: Dude, you have beliefs that are different from most people on this forum. That's fine. Everyone knows that and you're obviously free to do so. But if you're really here to have a real discussion, then you should take it up with Sheikh Nur or any of the other knowledgable nomads. Didnt Nur challenge you to a debate a while back? Be a man, and take it up!

You don't say?

[Naden]

The original post, as I understood it, was to enquire of the utility of one's life. I didn't care what type of beef others may have had with SB but the subsequent hijacking of the thread led to a great deal of finger-pointing and subdebates.

 

Nonetheless, for anyone who studied the faith formally, the book of God is not a mystery to be cracked only by Culima. Some (far too few) spend their careers studying it formally and share their knowledge with others. A few (far too many) use the ignorance/lack of education of many believers to gain a position of knowledge (and subsequent power) neither earned nor deserved.

 

The purpose of our creation was to exalt God, and as another brother explained, the manner in which we reach this purpose is time-person-ability dependent. Or else, the Koran would not hold charity and the care of the orphan and infirm in such high regard. Why all these epileptic reactions to a question of what the individual purpose of a life is?

 

I thought of a recent debate among Somalis in a large community in Canada. The community leaders were called into a meeting to discuss the issue of organ transplant. A hospital committee wanted to understand the position of Somalis (the largest African community in the province) on registering in bone marrow registeries and signing organ donor cards. The Somali community leaders quickly retorted that organ donation (didn't even discuss the marrow registry) is haram and not acceptable to Muslims. The hospital wondered then why Canadians of Somali origin accepted over 12 organ transplants in the past year. These dying people were not denied the organs and their families certainly didn't reject them.

 

In a country in which voluntering is done by 1 in 3 or 4 people, mutual care of others in society is seen as necessary to raise the quality of life and not leave the sick and destitute to suffer alone. We as Somalis always scream that we take care of our kin but today's life perhaps requires that we take care of complete strangers and to do so for the remainder of our natural lives. I bring up these examples to show that there are and there should be a purpose to an individual's life that doesn't call into question their faith but is necessary to fulfill their duties to a society from which they draw so many benefits.

 

When my own uncle had heart surgery, he was given the equivalent of the entire volume of his blood twice over to survive the surgeries. Blood donated by strangers. When as a college student I tried to organize a blood drive among Somalis and other muslims (in fairness to our people), I got nothing but snickers and eye rolling. We are walking about preaching to others how supreme our faith is and how righteous our peope but deeds certainly speak louder than words.

 

As a final word, I don't take away anything from the learned people of Islam. I was taught by several during my school days and they left me with both the knowledge of the language and the history of the sira to read the Quran. I listen to Omar Khalid and others every once in a while to learn how they navigate the modern world and apply their faith. Then I use my own judgement and interests to navigate through my life.

 

Originally posted by Rahima:

I say we end it and move on. Perhaps they can discuss their own warped views amongst themselves whilst we discuss matters of importance and learn our religion more so that we do not resort to such backward ways- to actually think that we understand this religion better than the companions of the prophet s.c.w and the culimaa’ who have dedicated their lives to Islam.

[Castro]

^ Volunteer? Donate organs? Join and give back to the community that snatched them out of the jaws of despair and war? Naden, you're kidding me right? Never. :rolleyes:

 

Originally posted by Kashanre:

^True walaal but the poltician

in

me wants to address one last point.

Politican? I could've sworn it was just shidh.

 

Johhny, saaxib, I strongly urge you not to belittle the "dogma" and doctrines of Islam. Some Muslims like Khayr and Khashanre are obviously eligible (and often beg) for ridicule. That's your prerogative. Be careful what you say though about the faith. Even if you find it "absurd" it behooves you to keep that to yourself. Nin kuu digay kuma dilin.

[Gabbal]

^Castro, you do not need to take yourself away from the "group" to stay mainstream walaal. Are we without principle, also?

[Arawella]

Ok people, so SB is not so inclined in swallowing without questioning the teachings of the Sunnah, hence pray tell what’s wrong with that!?

 

We can deduce from his arguments that he is a believer albeit an inquisitive one. Allah blessed us with the choice to choose unlike the angels, who or what we wish to worship. Honestly, it is much more satisfying to question rather than be lead like a blind man.

[Khayr]

Kashanre,

 

Mabruuk saxib, you and I are in the same 'group' according to SOL's Master Spammer.

Its a pleasure saxib for you and I to be known as 'like minded' nomads, Alhamdulillah.

 

Naden,

 

Do a little SEARCH on SOL for that Topic that you went off on a TANGENT with. It has been discussed on SOL several times.

[Naden]

Originally posted by Khayr:

Naden,

 

Do a little SEARCH on SOL for that Topic that you went off on a TANGENT with. It has been discussed on SOL several times. [/QB]

What topic is that, Khayr, and I will do the search?

[Castro]

Originally posted by LaVie:

Ok people, so SB is not so inclined in swallowing without questioning the teachings of the Sunnah, hence pray tell what’s wrong with that!?

Outright rejection of the Sunnah is unacceptable in Islam. Is it Kufr? I don't know. I do believe however that as "inquisitive" as SB is, he will come around to the truth and see what the Sunnah is, IA.

 

The problem with threads like these is that they bring out the worst in all of us and while we shout over each other and call each other names, we are all left with a bad taste in our mouths and little or no understanding.

 

Speaking of bad taste,

 

Kashanre babbled:

^Castro, you do not need to take yourself away from the "group" to stay mainstream walaal. Are we without principle,

also

?

Lama huraan waa caws jiilaal. We're both resigned to our fates I suppose. Yours is to utter nonsense and mine is to repeatedly hit you upside the head. Unlike you, I don't look to be in groups. Belonging to cliques covers the inadequacies and insecurties of the individual, hence their appeal to you. Whatever your definitions of mainstream, faithful and principled, they are ones I'd rather not be associated with. I'll make this my last beating of you (in this topic), for it's unfair that I repeatedly use my guns when all you and Khayr have are butter knives.

[Socod_badne]

Abraar,

 

Would you please stop accusing me of things you don't or can't back up with evidence. It's the 2nd or 3rd time you accuse me of belittling what others believe without saying what it is I've written that constitutes berate of other's believe. Other than that I have nothing to add to what I've already said to you.

 

Pi,

 

You're right, I got sidetracked like everyone else. Which goes to show we're or I am on the same boat with other thread hijackers. I'll keep in mind to curb this unsought habit in the future. Probably it's because of unresolved or dormant debates/discussions from other threads and from the past that unintentionally got carried over to here.

 

My purpose in life aside from unwavering believe and love for my creator is to do for others what I'd like them to do for me. That would entail helping the destitute and disenfranchised, extending the same courtesy to others that I expect from them, being loyal and available to my loved ones... the whole gamut. Nothing specific I can pin point, that is why I wanted other Nomad's thoughts.

[Socod_badne]

Originally posted by Kashanre:

No, you did not understand walaal as you would not have come out with such a handicapped analogy. "Jewism" nor "Americanism" do not exist. I would hope you meant zionism and capitalism in those terms.

 

It is actually you who doesn't understand. The distinction you draw between what muslims do and Islam is unnecessary. Muslims will be judged by what they DO not by what they belief. Americans will be judged by what they do not by what they belief; jews will be judged by what they do not by what they belief. Those who criticise Islam, not I, will do so on the grounds of what Islam says, not what muslims do. And those who criticise muslisms, for which I'm one of, will do so based on what muslims do, not what Islam says.

 

You and others lambaste Zionists and americans not for what is contained in the OT and US constitution but for what they do.

 

It's always convenient however to link the two, often out of weakness of arguement. But that doesn't detract from WHY and on WHAT you base your reasons for criticing others.

 

See how it works?

[N.O.R.F]

^^

 

It is actually you who doesn't understand. The distinction you draw between what muslims do and Islam is unnecessary. Muslims will be judged by what they DO not by what they belief. Americans will be judged by what they do not by what they belief; jews will be judged by what they do not by what they belief. Those who criticise Islam, not I, will do so on the grounds of what Islam says, not what muslims do. And those who criticise muslisms, for which I'm one of, will do so based on what muslims do, not what Islam says.

Do you also critise muslims who do what Islam says? You criticise a muslim for speaking out against what is wrong in this world (As Islam askes of us)? What is Americanism? Does it not mean to control world affairs at whatever cost? If not, proove it.

 

You just babbling on and on without any thought process going into any of your arguments. You are infact going round in circles!

 

lol@weakness of argument

 

ps its Judaism

[Socod_badne]

Originally posted by Northerner:

Do you also critise muslims who do what Islam says? You criticise a muslim for speaking out against what is wrong in this world (As Islam askes of us)?

 

 

First you have to establish (prove!) that EVERY criticised vocal muslim speaks for what Islam says. It's self-evident truth that not ALL vocal muslims speak for what Islam says (Osama Bin Laden for 1) not to mention the different readings of Islam. If ANY vocal muslim claiming to be speaking on the behalf of Islam has got it wrong, then ANY vocal muslim can be criticised for what he does. If you see holes in my reasoning, show it otherwise concede.

 

Again, it doesn't matter on hoot what you believe, when all is said and done you will always be judged by what you do not for what you say or belief.

 

Take me for example. Those who criticise me don't so for what I say (ie reject the Sunnah etc) but what I do -- independently speak my mind!

 

Keep this in mind. People aren't punished (justly) for what is inside their head but for what they do or plan to do.

 

 

What is Americanism? Does it not mean to control world affairs at whatever cost? If not, proove it.

 

Americanism means many things to many people. To some it's what is enshrined in the US constitution. For others its that with a dash Calvinistic sense of capatilism. Yes, to some it means being dominant sole super power. It means many things to many people. And I don't need to 'prove' anything.

 

 

You just babbling on and on without any thought process going into any of your arguments.

That is nonsense. Anytime I or anyone else writes, a thought process is involved. It's just that some people's thought process is better than others. But there is always thought process.