Carafaat;794315 wrote: Elpunto, I saw the similaritie of waqooyi communities as well. Laakinse lagama jiiro, hadii kale waa ku xiiqiisa.

Xaaji Xunjuf;794306 wrote: Taleexi abti why cant koonfurians say canood War saaxiib wuxu waa lahjad oo iyaba waa inagu qoslaan markaan xarabkeena si farshaxamaysan ugu hadaltiroono.

MMA: Don't be racist is it Laas Canood or Laas Caano

We shall wait and see.

Pretty city indeed.

A fact: Khatumo was not represented in the meeting. It is not only Khatumo folks that were left out in the meeting. And we all know that the TFG, PL, SL, Galmudug and Ahlu Sunna will not only be the guardians and masters of Somalia's future.However, even though I was not represented I'm happy with the outcome of preserving the union and the details will be dealt with on due course but rest assured Khatumo's priority is ever creating a reality on the ground where it wants to restore law and order in its lands and reclaim the occupied lands.

Clan states are temporary. I want to one Somalia where every individual has a line of communication in the power pipe. No more, no less.

It is all like the glass is half-full or half empty scenario; who dictated by whom or visa verse it all depends one's preference method of comprehension. Agreed something has been cooked for the Somali peninsula and its implementation phase has started. I also partially agree with you what you laid up there but Somalia and "Somaliland" are two distinct entities in the eyes of the international community is quite an amusement if not the classical comedy of the day. In addition, with regards to Awdal, Khatumo, & Maakhir's destiny is getting clearer by the day. The great autonomous Somaliland State of Somalia only represents the triangle cities given that Somalis know it so does the international community. Any sane person would agree that Khatumo institutions are getting stronger by the day, political clout is ever expanding not to mention PR front. Above all, they are on the right side of the argument where they draw a line in the sand and proclaimed to have a self-rule, like anyone else in the peninsula to pursue their birthright, unalienable right to self-determination. All they want is just to be the masters of their destiny not more, no less what SL wants. Saying unionist admins in the north have no choice while you portray SL having a choice is a mere unjust, and unwarranted stand. Over 20 years of lies, SL is coming back to the fold is a reality to be reckoned with. Somaliland's long standing bravado over the years has been finally associated with its right price tag; A local admin within Somalia is. A word of advice, I usually charge my consultations but to the secessionists take this one as goodwill from me. If I were you I would've vacated the lands of Awdal, Maakhir and Khatumo and thereafter build bridges and restore the lost trust within the neighborly communities for future alliances if you guys care ... Balse horaa loo yiri : War shifo dheh, war iska daa lagala quusay'e... I wish you all the best and I hope you guys recuperate soon from your protracted, grandiose delusional.

STOIC;793960 wrote: Talexi, You lot are focusing on my abtirsimi instead of focusing on what is right and working. I have identified what I believed in regard to reaching a stable Somalia, but you chosed to ignore it all.More often than not , people corner others to say what is not on the table as a result of being overwhelmed by the very thing they accuse others of.I will urge you guys to focus on the positve and on the solution that will benefit you.If you focus on my clan this will lead to feelings of utter loathing.The only reason I love this site is because of baning clan Thank you sir we shall leave it there... Hasha geela cunta ee cabaada iga dheh.

Peace beel.

By Muktar M. Omer Feb. 23, 2012 The Importance of Ground Rules in Debates No Sport is played without ground rules. In football, playing the man and not the ball is a bookable offence. First misplaced tackle yields a yellow card; second yellow card earns the offender a red one and exit from the field. If the referee lets flying tackles from behind unpunished, spectators who paid to watch football may instead watch rugby. In scholarly debate too, ground rules are as important as the substance of the discussion points. If there are no rules, a dialogue cannot yield results. It becomes a shouting duel. Its purpose boils down to commotion and point-scoring. Listen. Dr. Mohamud Ugas is a good man. Nothing in his past or present makes me doubt his personal integrity. He has my utmost respect. It is his ideas and reasoning that I have issues with, not him. If he played the man, I will play the ball. But only after I prove that his otherwise useful points in his rebuttal "Is the ONLF Struggle on Track or Not?" were sullied by his use of a litany of fallacious arguments that are a no-no at this level: Red-herring: Dr. Ugas started his article by casting doubt on my judgment, hinted he suspects my intentions and awareness of details about the struggle, and ended with a patronizing advice that I should not rush to make conclusions before digesting issues. He may be right about all of this. But in logical arguments, such presumptions are not allowed. It is called ad hominem fallacy; it is called red-herring. It is what is known as ‘poisoning the well’, which is presenting “adverse information about the target with the intention of discrediting everything that the target person says”. The adjectives ‘young’ ‘idle’ ‘are the ammunition used in this case. Smart readers won’t miss this fallacy; average ones take the bait and miss the issue. Straw man fallacy: This is when someone attacks ideas and beliefs not expressed by the person he/she is supposed to challenge. In this regard, Dr. Ugas talked about why ‘Ethiopia is occupying ******’, ‘the resources of the ****** region which are not to be found elsewhere’, ‘Muktar labeling the ****** struggle to be fruitless’. None of these points were either explicitly written or implied in my article to which Dr. Ugas was responding to. To call the struggle stagnating is not synonymous with calling it ‘fruitless’. Therefore, let the straw man who made those statements defend them; it is not me. Faulty generalizations: Dr. Ugas states “There is no doubt that the world knows very much that the ****** liberation struggle is the pioneers of the Somali nationalism in the Horn of Africa. The world welcomes the struggle in many official and unofficial meetings.” Where? When? Which country supports the struggle, except the one in the red sea? Qatar? USA? China? Brazil? Rwanda? Just one name is fine with me. Also, when Dr. Ugas says “there is no doubt…” in whose mind, if I may ask? Appeal to authority: This fallacy is committed when and where “an assertion is deemed true because of the position or authority of the person asserting it”. Dr. Ugas wrote “if ONLF clogged Ethiopia from [exploiting resources of the region] isn’t this a progress?” Maybe, maybe not. If they have been able to stop Ethiopia in 1994 and they are able to do it in 2012, how is it a progress? It is a good thing but is it not staying where you were? Also, has the struggle been about remaining a spoiler of Ethiopian machinations, or was it to go beyond that and end colonialism? The premise of Dr. Ugas’s assertion needs to be tested first. Is it true ONLF is stopping Ethiopia from exploiting resources or are there other factors too? I am not suggesting ONLF is not preventing Ethiopia from exploiting ‘******’ resources, I am wondering why Dr. Ugas did not back this up with the parameters he prescribed for me? As it is stands, the sentence is subjective, ‘believe me’ type. I can go on and on about the endless fallacies in the argument Dr. Ugas presented. There is no need to do that. It is much more useful to discuss substance, now that I have made the point that it is impossible to move an argument forward if certain ground rules and norms are not observed. Dr. Ugas rightly asks why I have not used ‘indicators’ to evaluate the success or failure of the struggle. Oddly, most of the indicators he presented are not measurable. There is no point in listing indicators if they cannot be measured. For instance, how can “the mission of the organization’, ‘the impression of the world towards the fighting organization, ‘the power of the occupying regime or government’ be quantitatively measured? These are considerations, or could be extenuating factors. They are helpful when setting targets for indicators. They cannot be used to explain poor results. If these considerations are judged to be insurmountable, targets will have to be revised, timelines for success will have to be adjusted. They must not be used to justify lack of progress or the length of time needed to achieve these results. Whether freedom is to be achieved next year or 400 years from now, there has to be annual, five-year, ten-year targets and these milestones has to be quantifiable. Do we have these benchmarks so that we can judge if we are on the right track or not? Or do we only remember them when results refuse to oblige and questions are asked? The other indicators Dr. Ugas listed such as ‘the support of the people in the region to the organization’, ‘the organization’s allies’ can be measured. I agree with Dr. Ugas that benchmarks will have to be first defined so that we can measure where we are against those benchmarks. But this is not do-able in an article. It needs research. Is Dr. Ugas saying that if rigorous research is not done, we cannot pass judgment based on anecdotal evidences? If so, why would he then pass judgment on Meles’ Zenawi’s alleged atrocities and alleged land-grapping intentions in the ‘******’ without undertaking a research? I differ with Dr. Ugas on this. First of all, my article presented opinions, not researched facts. I did make no such claim. Second, I have done my research, and my conclusions are based on interviews, observations and desk review of studies about the politics in the region. I realize the limitations of such research; therefore I did not claim they are facts. I used the findings to form opinion on how things are doing. I am entitled to do that. After an arduous research is done, pages of statistics and charts are produced, ultimately the key finding is often presented in few lines. In many cases, research validates the opinions of experts, especially where volumes of anecdotal evidences abound. If an international institute today embarks on a research mission to find out if there are human rights violations in Ethiopia, it is prudent to wait for its conclusions. But, I don’t think it is difficult to predict what its findings would be. Sometimes, anecdotal evidences are enough to shape opinions. I did use indicators too, albeit qualitative ones. I said the struggle did not get any new ideas, support base and allies. Only one clan started the struggle, only one clan is fighting today – the ****** clan; in truth, some sections of it. The leaders of the struggle give a single message of freedom or death, but never genuinely entertained different strategies or ideas to achieve this. Today, even thinking about any other idea other than the one the ONLF leadership promotes is loudly censured and condemned by the front. They may be on the right course. They may be guarding against sedition and distractions. They can rationalize why they are stifling critical discussion internally, but they cannot say my statement is false. If they say so, I challenge them to tell us what other eventualities/options/ideas they are prepared for. Read more http://wardheernews.com/Articles_12/Feb/Muktar/22_ONLF_Freeing_the_freedom_fighters.html

Farxad badanaa ... reer Somaliland ... halkaa ka sii wada.

STOIC;793934 wrote: Aaliya, my sister let me make CLEAR to you that I don't SPEAK for a clan.Anything I say here is purely my OPINION.Brother Xiin asked me for opinion and NOT my CLAN.....I understand why you mad and let anger cloud your writtings Waxaa la yiri, waa kuma qof weyni, waa innaga oo aan isyeelyeelayn.... You sir spoke on behalf of SL and thus, you spoke on behalf of your clan interests. Get out of the closet and make a stand.

Promoting & practicing selective justice won't end our inflicted miseries anytime soon. Criminal is a criminal in my books but Ali Samastar tol li'i, iyo dal la'aan baa haysa.

NASSIR;793808 wrote: Where's the clan-man, Oodwayne? Give him some time. Let the PTSD takes its course.

Nevertheless progress it is.

Abwaan;792433 wrote: Carruur Booli iyo jirrinimo lagu koriyey maxaa kale oo ka filaysaa? They should take him to court elsewhere whatever it takes, inform the international community regarding this incident. I don't believe that they will get justice in where his pirate dad rules. Shit fooqal shit ... my friend is wounded.

Dee bal waayahee afkaaga bal car erey carabig ah ka ilaali !

The Sage;793019 wrote: So the Somaliland-haters jump out of the woodwork because the British government wants the AU to deal with the issue before he extends recognition? The fact that Somaliland is entering into the discourse of international diplomacy more often is definitely unsettling for many here. I also find it quite confusing that people like Duke claim that the former Somalia has made a full recovery when it's sovereignty is eroded on a daily basis by the presence of Kenyans, Ethiopians, Ugandans and Burundians. The fact that there is a conference about Somalia isn't something gloat about, it would be like gloating about needing to go into surgery because one is deathly ill, while its good that you are being treated it's nothing to be proud of. On the other hand Somaliland's resilience and prosperity is gaining notoriety with each passing day in the international community. Halkaa ka wad Mudane Sage.

Xaaji Xunjuf;792929 wrote: No Somaliland started on 26 June 1960, sareyow ma nusqaamow what you are talking about are the SNM Somaliland fighters and they started in Saudi Arabia in jeddah it was movement. But keep in mind taleexi i remember during the SNM days there were no parties no one sang songs in western capitals beerkey ada ku weyn and shaking their booty's and wrapping themselves with flags iyo habro buranburaya oo airpodhada tagaan iyago tawafsan.They were the most successful rebels Africa has ever seen Somalilanders in the west and particulary in saudi arabia were all paying a huge price the saudi Somalilanders almost half of their salary's went to the SNM. And they were fighting for a cause not for money or kursi not like the headless local useless clan jabhads of now and days who defect from one mamuul to another,never compare apples with oranges. Thanks for the correction. Now 2/3 of the salaries of Khaatumo diaspora is going to the liberation front. Is there something wrong with my claim? hmmmm I guess not.

Your criterion of measuring a language's usefulness is partially valid. The volume of the speakers matter, like mandarin of China ... As a Somali, you would be better off learning the language of 1/2 billion people next door. Unless, of course, you prefer to be in an isolation.

The TFG has to be more responsible. Thanks for sharing NASSIR.

Arabic has so much manuscript I wished I could be well versed .... It is a pretty rich language .. talk about history, literature, and philosophy .... how many volumes of Arabic text I wanted to decipher and crack its code if only I could...

Jacaylbaro;791696 wrote: Beri baan mid isku furay ,,,, Dee Ilaahay baa ogaa wixii igaga soo baxay Tell me about it.

Thanks for the correction. I meant a fraction of the Somalis will be represented. How much leverage will they have shaping their destiny, or at least participating, is anyone's guess. "Prepare for the worst (if we can)" baaba hadal isku fuuqsatay.