*Ibtisam;722330 wrote: Salamah, 1. AfricaOwn; as an ambassador and an advocate for Somaliland you make a poor job of making it appealing. You are always angry, resulting to name calling etc. There is an art to persuasion which you lack (Ngonge, Ododwyne, Suldaan, Ayoub and North have) and you are just angry 24/7 and easy to provoke (while JB comes across as happy go lucky). You, XX, axmed, saleex and Abokor are far too militant, rude and disrespectful (yes yes I get it people are the same to you, but you have to learn to rise above it). 2. Liiban; thank you for your length post, some I believe you are sincere, some are just pretty words; without me picking it all apart (don’t have time and you are hardly going to admit to it) here is the main problem I see with your argument; - Assume Somaliland divides along clan lines (that is what you are advocating for remember) forget Awdal for the moment, Your clans of SSC (particularly the main clan) share miyi territory with the clans of the three city; in fact my home town Burco has about 20% SSC population with houses, business and land. My home village/ tuulo, use to be about 80% that clan, Hargeisa as a current commercial and business hub hosts this clan. Should the SSC be forced to clear off (displaced) to honor these clan alignments?. Do you really think that the SSC clan can shift from the shared miyi lands forever? As an individual who don’t live there (SSC) you probably think if the village of LA and the other three city are cleared, then everything will be dandy right? I am sorry to tell you that the area which your clan lives and sustain their livestock reaches far beyond those cities you know and right into the heart of the current "disliked" clan. It is my opinion therefore that your idea does not in reality work or can even be called a constructive proposal which preserves of the interest of your clan, let alone fair to anyone else. It is as absurd as some Somalilanders saying; Those who do not want to be part of Somaliland are free to pack their belongs, grab their geel and huts and shift over to the lands that extend beyond the SL boarder to join the clan brothers they want. - Somaliland and SSC future is intertwined because the people who LIVE (not you or khaddar, or AfricaOwn or XX) in those areas needs and survival are socially, culturally and historically intertwined, it has been for so long before politics got involved. The SSC nomads will not leave the lands that sustains their livestock, nor will they give up the lands and houses in the SL cities, nor will they shift over to the lands of D block to be a refugee. Nor could they say we don’t want to be with you (SL), but we will stay in the heart of your clan and operate with our interest intertwined. Nor can you say SL people stay out of our village while WE roam your cities and our livestock graze right in the middle of yours in safety and good heart. Nor can they say ISq clan should only live in 3 cities and give up their miyi territory. Now do you see the dilemma of such situation? Can you appreciate that your idea is not viable? This is why I find it ridiculous when I hear you and the SSC nomads here saying SL should do what it wants and leave our cities alone. It is a none argument, because in saying that you give up your clans claim to sharing grazing lands that form the backbone of their survival. How do you think they live? Do you think the majority live in brick houses with running taps and supermarkets? Could your clan really just live in your cities and survive, for how long? A day, a week? - IF you agree that the division needed to preserve both interest is NOT possible then we can progress, however if you still think the SSC clan can survive on its tuulos and cities while giving up their interest in the SL territory and shared lands, then please explain, I am all ears;? Dear sister: Unfortunatly, you are advocating what I may term a holistic gumaysi perpetuated your clan admin towards other clans. In reality, we all know all Somalis' interests are intertwined but that is not the point here. If your clan or admin whatever you like to call it thinks/believes/wants to have its actioned unquestioned then the semantics of this discussion is heading south. Let your admin bites what it can swallow -- and leave other clans to their own devices. I know that is too much to ask, but anything else is a non-starter.

Jacaylbaro;722325 wrote: It is going on sxb .... it is not just out of the air yet but there is a massive diplomatic talks going on. Why else do u think there is no war happening ?? The Gogosha Nabadda is still open and it is expected to start anytime this year Insha Allah. Would you please ditch your Gogol and leave people's affairs to them. Get out of their land and then share whatever you see a solution to the concerned communities.

OdaySomali: Maad saaxiib mawqifkaaga cadaysid. Haddii the reincarnation of United Somalia isn't in your vocabulary and you reject vehemenly the mini clan states ... I personally see there is nothing in between but somehow you seem someone has a third option in mind. Would you please mind sharing?.... Teeda kale, what other username do you use on SOL ?

Som@li;722139 wrote: JB, You don't have to bring all those to justify the naked aggression by Somaliland militia in SSC, Maakhir why are you not addressing about the real issue which is in their region of Former BRITISH Somaliland, the clans who live are not all into this project, ignoring and oppressing these people will not make the FACTS go away. You have been trying to keep this under the carpet for over 20 years? how long it is before you address the core issue ? YOU can secede , You can join Israel if you wish, We will not force into union but forcing the people in SOOL and Maakhir into secession is wrong, Denying they exist is wrong. Who gave you the right to determine their life? And don't come with what comes from SL politicians, where are brothers and sh!t! I think in 20 years it is obvious these people don't want anything to do with SL. People in Las Anod don't want occupation and humiliation, SL is taking their basic right of self determination away. SL has being causing destruction on these region, it is time you let GO!, withdraw your troops, and magaalooyinkiina ku eekada, respect the wishes of the people of SSC, MAAKHIR etc Trying to outsmart people and force them in secession will not work, ignoring the issue will not work, bribing their clan leaders will not work, dividing them will not work, hijacking and ignoring the core issue and sell and fool the world will not work.... Is that hard to understand? Salaams Somali It is not ONLY hard to understand for some rather Is-aqis need to back to the drawing board and look themselves in the mirror. What is theirs is theirs but them seeking what is not is like habartii dhali wayday aleelo ku waalatay oo kale.

Som@li iyo Liibaanow: Markaan OdaySomali u jawaabayey iftataaxan baan ku furtay ee bal ila yare eega Mudane OdaySomali salaan sare baan hawada kuu soo marinayaa ugu horayn!. I wonder though; why is my sixth sense telling me that you are a clown of SOLer?, why am I thinking you are promoting secession more over unity?, why am I thinking you are an underground ambassador for the secessionists' cause. Halkaa markaan kaftanka ku waabiyo, dhambaalkaagii wuxuu i soo gaadhay anoo bed qaba dabadeed si wacan ban u akhristay balse waa aan saluugay . How dared I do such a crime you may ask my friend? Si nin weyn baan ula hadlay illeyn wayeel kaftan buu hadalka ku dhammaystaaye, afkaaga kala qaad aan ilkahaaga tiriyona waa edeb daro ee bal ogow - Shaki i gal balse ilaaqtankaan yaraynayey- sidaas darteed whether OdaySomali is a mock replica of XX or another SOLer is beside the point. The idea he brought to the fore is well worth entertaining. Assume this elusive figure is XX or whomever you consider him to be regardless of mala awaalkeena nin ku waydiiyey sidee baynu ku kala badbaadnaa, gar buu kuugu leeyahay inaad fikirkaaga qof ahaaneed ka bixiso. Mise waa maya? horaa loo yidhi Xooluhu urta bay isku fahmaan dadkuna hadalka saas darteed hadal danta ummadda ka hadlaya oo turxaan lahayn wuxuu ina geyaysiin karaa inaynu naclad ubadkeena inagaga timaada ka badbaadno. In the case of unionists and secessionists in the north, it is up to them if they want to finish off each other or want to live side by side in peace. They say the art of politics is considering what is possible and I say considering what is not possible - I personally see Is-aq and H-arti children competing not in the battle fields as the case is now but in football arena, and in other confidence building endeavors - Sadly, some of us don't see that possibility. Nevertheless, I stipulated in my previous post the sequential steps that needs to be taken that is only if we care getting along alas we are all in a sinking ship and last time I checked extending a visit to hell was NOT a favorite destination

Sad indeed.

Alla timaa tol beelay maxaa qalab loo samaystay. Anigu Ducaysane baan ku raacsanahay gabadh madax xiiran waa ma'ansha Allah... waqti badan bay kuu helaysaa oo micno daro ku lumi lahaa.

Awdalites' wishes deserve nothing less but respect.

Qosol iyo calaamatu su'aal laysku daray iga dheh

Jacaylbaro;721707 wrote: Everything about Somaliland is Sad in the history of Somalia .................... one of the reasons why the Unity has failed in the first place. Ishaad ka riday JB.

OdaySomali;721668 wrote: Nicely put yourself yaa Taleexi, I think you are being reasonable here and if everyone looked at what is practicle, reasonable and in the interest of the people, somali politics would be a lot less of a headache. In response to the part of your comment where you were being "assertive and to the point" (lool): One thing i fear from what is going on up north is the tribalising of the politics and people and the division following on from that. If you push and push and push people away from each other on the basis of clan e.g. "awdal" "sscc" "makhir" and your "somaliland" interpretation", it is simply not going to work in the long term in terms of achieving any progress for anyone. If one perpetually links political differences to clan differences you are going to make a whole lot of people oppose each other than would otherwise be the case. For example if you represent everyone that is not SSC, AWDal and makhir as anti union though some of them are pro union then you are alienating them. Vice versa if Somalilanders paint everyone that is, for example "SSC", as anti union then they are alienating some of them. IN any case, pro-unionist camps should not use clan to divide people to hope to later unite them as in the process they will create real and lasting hate that will have side-effects and will shape the future. Otherwise in future, when things get hard, people will turn to what they know best and that is clan. I see you are trying to use the clan diversity to your advantage in this case but I must point out that, as far as i'm aware, "Awdal" in pro-Somaliland, that is deviating from your clan categorisation I know, but facts are facts. Also Las anod and now widh-widh have become more warm to Somaliland, without local supporters that would simoply not be possible. Makhir is relatively peaceful/neutral and has found some sort of balance. What needs to be here is common ground. That should be that (i hope) both camps want peace for the people and it should also be what the elders of all the northern people achieved together in 1991 when they agreed in peace to no longer fight. They should all also realise that until de-jure independence and recognition, as one does not guarentee the other, come, it is really not neccesary to fight. They should know that they, together, are in a better position than the south and capitalise on this. In all honesty the TFG/Al-shabab/warlords/AMISOM/etc will currently not bring anything to SCC, AWdal, makhir or SOmaliland. However, if SSC & other agree with Somaliland, to have a united and independent 'Somaliland' on the condition of eventual long term re-integration with Somalia [once it is at peace and it has a stable political system] so that in the mean time ALL the local people up north can live together in peace and experience development and stability knowing that 'Somali unity', fickle though may it be, is not lost. Puntland and Somaliland and Somalia, in that context, IMO, ay iskaashan karaan. So they should agree to disagree but agree to peace. They should agree to see that there is currently nothing in the south and that they should seek to develop first and long term re-integration later on. If they have peace and development, as Somali people, that would be a guul for all SOmali people. If they are willing to sacrifice in the short run to gsain in the long run and also are willing to be practicle then at least some somali people will find peace. The trend/strategy by unionists of division by clan, is wholly a wrong one; that I must stress. Mudane OdaySomali salaan sare baan hawada kuu soo marinayaa ugu horayn!. I wonder though; why is my sixth sense telling me that you are a clown of SOLer?, why am I thinking you are promoting secession more over unity?, why am I thinking you are an underground ambassador for the secessionists' cause. Halkaa markaan kaftanka ku waabiyo, dhambaalkaagii wuxuu i soo gaadhay anoo bed qaba dabadeed si wacan ban u akhristay balse waa aan saluugay . How dared I do such a crime you may ask my friend? First, let us embrace the facts, Somaliland means different thing to different people. In my view and many other northerners' regard SL something that was born and raised in the sphere of one clan's needs and wants thus, SL merely represents the interests of one clan, advocates the rights for one clan while subjugating, oppressing and adapting expansionism policies on pro-union clans' regions. None of us needs to be a rocket scientists to figure out SL intentions. Breaking up the country, promoting animosity and hatred among northern communities, and yet portraying itself the oasis of peace and democracy what a lie that slipped its way out. Secondly, YES, I'm partially aligning my political interpretation with clan make up and, you would be naive or be singing in a vacuum if you don't consider the clan factor in the Somali political calculus. Do I like it? … H-ELL NO I say, but our rationale and psychic say clan is everything - Rag ciil cadaab ka dooray, fiqi tolkii kama janno tago - anigu ma odhan thus, I'm not liable for them. Hyprid system is what I'm calling for in order modern Somali nation surfaces again. Thirdly, I'm not sure if it was an inadvert or intentional on your part when you've pictured SL as a force that is making inroads in the unionist' heartlands. I want to say; this is a very skewed view of the facts if Xaabsade visiting, who deserves an execution none but by SSC community, Widhwidh or Las Anod make happy some secessionists so be it but facts remain SSC & Maakhir are now in the point of no return to secession camp, of course they've never were but the idea could've been entertained in the past but that is like what accountants term a "sunk cost". Yes to Peace, Yes to Coexistent & Co-habitant. In the case of Awdal, they are geographically disadvantaged somewhat but the latest development there attest they want to be ruled from Mogadishu rather from Hargeisa. In this case, time will tell. Finally, SL and for that matter the unionists block had a chance to sort out their differences while SL was at its embryo state. SSC & Maakhir have never taken arms against the secessionist block until lately but the narrow-minded, visionless leaders of SL made the north what it is today. For now, as I said in my earlier post, SL has to make the first move and leave others to their own devices. A short of it is a recipe for disaster in my biased view. Aan ku soo khatimo, hadal uu abwaanka Soomaaliyeed yidhi mar u xidhnaa xukuumadii markaa dirty, oo lag yidhi waa lag sii deynayaa'e cudur daaro oo dheh - waan denbaabay - markaas buu ku jawaabay ereyadan ee bal ila akhriso. Xabsi ama xoriyad sharif leh ama cabal dee I ask no more no less saaxiib. Inta ay waalidu inaga degayso khaasatan SL wareerka iyo khiyaaliga ka baxayso aynu iskaga sii jirno shimbirayahow heesa.

Aniga waxay ila tahay nacayb aan laga soo kaban karo inama dhexyaal balse waali aynu qarsanayno/inkirayno baa jirta. Waaliduna daryeel bay u baahan tahay.

If you omit the s.h.i.t elements, your remark may resonate and have a positive impact.

My views ain't for sell .... just words on the screen as your ader used to say.

No they aren't but what is your concern/bothering you?

Open your eyes. We neither have union nor secession for now. I'm trying to save lives if at all possible. If not ha is deyso diidee, ha is raamsatee daa.

War yaan sidaa loogu sii talaxtegin walaalaheena qiiradu madax martay.

OdaySomali;721606 wrote: I would think their basis goes back to the union. And that is a wrong, defunct idea for entertaining.

OdaySomali;721549 wrote: However, if Somaliland agrees with SSC & co, to have a united and independent 'Somaliland' on the condition of eventual long term re-integration with Somalia [once it is at peace and it has a stable political system] so that in the mean time ALL the local people up north can live together in peace and experience development and stability knowing that 'Somali unity', fickle though may it be, is not lost. Puntland and Somaliland and Somalia, in that context, IMO, ay iskaashan karaan. Several assumptions underly this hypothetical situation and with all things being equal and presumptions being true, I think this would be the ideal situation in which war is averted and neither camp 'loses face'. Am I being to idealistic. Nicely put yaa OdaySomali. And I may be a guilt of calling you; yeah! you are a bit too idealistic in here. I could be bias because unlike many here I'm a staunch pragmatist. Putting kaftanka aside, Yaynaan milil dushii dhayin. Sida aynu wada ognahay markay Somaliya bururtay, oo ay sidii wuxuushtii isu cuntay, beel waliba waxay u hayaantay to their homelands. Let me be assertive and to the point here and address the sub conflict of the northern clans. In order to avert all out war in the region it is up to the players of the conflict indeed, it takes two to play tango. As you hinted let us divide the parties at the conflict into two camps. Awdal, SSC, and Maakhir (Unionist block) on one side and Somaliland (the secessionist block) on the other. Hence, these opposing views do exist in the north. For argument's sake, let us halt/ignore what other Somalis think about this, at least for this moment. First, in case you do not know there is an active war ongoing in the enclave perpetuated by SL against some regions in the north namely SSC. In order peace be given a chance and negotiations kick off. This hostility has to cease without condition. SL militia, they ought to go back to their homes. This should be the start point. Secondly, SL’s would-be talking points should be revisited and polished. Meaning, they should come to the discussion table as stakeholders with goodwill not as guardians for others in the territory. Thirdly, the unionist block has to respect the wishes of their brethren in the region. They've to foster trade, confidence building and other traditional familial ties among communities. And tone down the unproductive mantra of tola'ayey. Once the supply chain is strengthened be might economic front, security or other common interests I'm sure people would want to talk and preserve the peace and would want to coexist and cohabit. Finally, the fever of secession and union should be treated as such "don't ask, don't tell" policy at least for now -- I say if it saves lives why not--. One should keep them into their heart until healthy communities that are sane which can make concessions and compromise emerge. In my personal view, the ball is in SL's court and, they ought to make the first move if peace is their priority otherwise God forbid all I see in the horizon is many people going to hell in flocks.

Waa arrin murugo leh.

Bal aan ku celiyo. Waxaan ku idhi saaxiib Beelaha waqooyigu isku si waxba uma arkaan, islamana socdaan ee maad sheekada midnimada Somaliland xawaashka ka yaraysid. Hadda ma i fahamtay Blessey? mise mar kale baan isku dayaa inaan si sidan ka wacan su'aashayda u soo bandhigo.

I concur. Even though "Only time will tell" remains to be a relative term.

Blessed: Maad eexda ka xishootid reer Waqooyi islama socdee.

Wallee waxay u badan tahay inaan Alle u gargaarayn inta ay iyagu marka hore nafahooda uga gargaarayaan.