Originally posted by Fanisha: Somali-Friend, Are u really a Habashi guy? or just pretender? :confused: Fanisha, Let me ask you a question, that is: What is Habashi in your understanding?

Mystic, Calm down. You can spell it in any way to your hearts content. I will spell it the way I see fit. It has nothing to do with religiosity unless in ICU world is different rules. Back to the thread. The ICU declaration of Jihad on Negash is bogus and unIslamic. It was also declared by someone who is nothing, but an imposter in the person of Hassan Dihir/Tahir. Do you have any comment on that?

Originally posted by Jimcaale: Cadan maa laga heesaaya mise anigaa waalan? What does Ethiopian Sheikh got to do with Somalia problems? So the Sheikh is from Ethiopia but ethnically Somali? Is this some type of FATWA?? Lets leave the FATWAs aside. The Shiek is stating the obvious. Some Shiek in Mugadishu has declared Jihad on him and his people. Doesn't he have the right to state the facts as it pertains to Jihad from Mugadishu and what it means?

mystic, Sheria is the way its pronounced in ethiopia. I am not a linguist. I don't know how the Arabs or Farsi sound it, but I am sure of its sounding in Ethiopia. I am willing to be corrected if you have historical background information to it, that we ethiopians pronounce it wrong.

Originally posted by Jimcaale: quote: if Somalia is reconstituted in a federal way and all its regions will have their peace with each other, Somalia will be a hundred times more important country than his and president Abdullahi Yusuf will be more important leader than Isayas. You're damn right! Somalia is more important to Melez than Eriteria. What you mean by federal way?? More division than we already have? Its the people of somalia who choose what kind of government they will have for the country and no body else. The last time I checked the people of Somalia through their representatives have chosen the Federal system. Somalia is more important to anyone worth his salt. Portuguese, Spanish, British, Soviet, French, Ottoman egypt, Ottomans, Anglo egypt...etc are witnesses for the importance of Somalia. Meles is a 50 year old man. The portueguese were important some 500 years ago. I don't have any propaganda words that start and end with Meles. Meles did not "create" or settle the somali in the most important location of all.

Originally posted by mystic: According to Sheik Ahmed, the people of Somali State are being administered under a federal system where they have their representatives and have also organized regional government, and on top of that its Sharia Courts are performing better than that of Mogadishu." What state is he referring to, what federal system? Does he know that in a Muslim country the Sharia law shall be the ultimate law? The government itself should be Sharia based, not only the courts. All Muslim countries are required to uphold the Sharia. Somalia is a country without a functioning government. I wouldn’t be surprised if he is from Puntland. The Shiek is speaking about the Somali Regional State of Ethiopia. He is also speaking of the Federal system of the same country. Are you telling the Shiek that the Sheria courts of the region he is talking about are less Islamic than the ones in Mugadishu? Or are you telling him that Hassan Tahir is more a shiek than he is? Which is it?

Originally posted by Santaaro-Saaxiib: You got to be kidding me. You're an eritrean yet you're telling a somalian man who to solve his countries problems and who to support. Remember as much as people hate or don't trust the ethopians and their intension is the same way some of us feel about you. And don't think that is minority view. I think some one lie to you here so come back to this world and solve your country's problems first. :mad: Eritrea having realized it cannot be a major power and its dictator having realized he cannot be the big man of the neighborhood have chosen to be a nuisance for everyone. Isayas realizes that, if Somalia is reconstituted in a federal way and all its regions will have their peace with each other, Somalia will be a hundred times more important country than his and president Abdullahi Yusuf will be more important leader than Isayas.

Here is one highly regarded Shiek's view of ICU as opposed to the religiousity they seem to declare and also wear. This Shiek is convinced that fakery does more harm to the religion than its enemies. "Shiek Ahmed Aben said on his part there are 29,600 mosques in Somali state only and added that the jihadists have also declared war on these mosques and the laity who do their prayers in them. According to Sheik Ahmed, the people of Somali State are being administered under a federal system where they have their representatives and have also organized regional government, and on top of that its Sharia Courts are performing better than that of Mogadishu."

Originally posted by Jimcaale: Your interest seems to revolve around the ICU, Arabs and Islam/Muslim in the politics forum. I agree with the exception that I leave religious issues to scholars, Immams, teachers and leaders. I only bring up something that has been studied and conclusions reached. Example the Jihad call by Hassan Tahir on Negash is bogus and contrary to Islam. Hasan Tahir himself is nothing, but an imposter. But on this thread I only asked a question. The question in case you missed it was: How would a Somali in Mugadishu who has seen the eritreans and OLF manning positions deny his fellow Somali in Gedo from setting up a government the way he wants it and also getting help from whomever he accepts?

Originally posted by Mr.Red Sea: the filthy Ethios Just don't try to show me where that is in any Kitab, as you attempt in your posts to be more moslem than ethiopians or somalis that don't accept your hipocrisy. It tells more about you than it does about the people of ethiopia. Its persons like you who give the religion a bad name and a bad image. The hipocrisy is clear to see.

Originally posted by rudy: lock them up! they aint above the law of the land. i say bad wadaads should be punished. It has been proven everytime in history, that fake Jihads, fake wadaads, fake Mahdis..etc harm the religion than all its percieved or real enemies combined. ICU is that version in south Somalia right now.

Originally posted by Mr.Red Sea: nothing wrong with that except they should have the backing and support of all Muslims. Here is one moslem who will not be on the side of fakery. He is convinced that fakery does more harm to the religion than its enemies. "Shiek Ahmed Aben said on his part there are 29,600 mosques in Somali state only and added that the jihadists have also declared war on these mosques and the laity who do their prayers in them. According to Sheik Ahmed, the people of Somali State are being administered under a federal system where they have their representatives and have also organized regional government, and on top of that its Sharia Courts are performing better than that of Mogadishu." When Mugadishu ICU starts declaring that its more moslem than others, and you seem to be echoing just that, expect to be told to prove it. Actions speak louder than words, and by his actions Hassan Tahir has been found to be nothing, but an imposter.

I hope this comes soon to the Somali in Mugadishu and area where ICU is holding them under fakery. This picture has been a reality in most of Somalia for some time now.

Originally posted by Sharif_seylaci: Forgeing soldiers not an option they will get killed like those americans The somalians in the south they will fight any one there Ethiopians Americans Sharif_seylaci, I have one question for you, but first let me explain the basis to my question. Example: Uganda and Gedo, thats where its believed the area the Ugandans will be sent according to TFG plans. When a local government is set there, according to what the people of the area and TFG set up choice, what will happen is the people of Gedo will defend their area from outside of it. The Ugandans will defend and assist the local government. They will even provide protection and security for the buildings and government officials. The Ugandans will also be assurance for development agencies that are ready and waiting. Here is my question: Do you think the man in Mugadishu who saw Eritrean and OLF fighters on ICU side will be so unfair against his fellow somali in Gedo of getting help from the Ugandans? If you say yes. Where is the fair mindedness of the somali culture? I will not ask you where is Islam, for lets avoid turning this into discussion of who is more moslem as the ICU seems to do.

The game of ICU is over. The exposure of the fakery is now complete. 1. The Islam against "less Islam" and their neighbors Christian- card has been exposed as fakery. Ethiopian moslems were very angry at the misuse and abuse of Islam for clanistic and individual benefit in Mugadishu, but were calmed down realizing that the people of Somalia did not buy this fakery. The people of Somalia would not accept Jihad on Negash for interests of some hipocrites and imposters. 2. the misuse of Somali nationalism. Did Hassan Tahir think that he has a monopoly on somali nationalism and he can use it for his own ambition without any benefit to the somali people? Did he think that the fakery of his nationalism where he showed it long ago against WSLF will not come to expose him as to who he is? Puntland now puts the last nail on the coffin of the fakery. Puntland is trusted by all somalis that she stands for somali unity, she stands for peace and harmony among somalis and non-somali neighbors. One cannot find a better nationalist than this. The rest of Somali states will now follow this unmatched leadership and the sacrifice Puntlanders are making to wait for somalia to be reconstituted. ICU called for Eritrea and OLF to help them, knowing full well that the government in Eritrea has never been known for peace with its neighbors (it has fought each of its neighbors) and the least friendly to Islam in the whole region. But ICU opposes other Somalis getting the same help ICU uses. I don't like to speak of Islam and the dealings of ICU, but suffice to say fairness and truthfulness are not in the ICU camp.

Originally posted by Jimcaale: Don't you think it's a little too late? Who's running Radio Jigjiga? FEMA? Khatoom conference maxaa ka dambeeyey? Full of accusation and hardly any evidence. Whoever wrote it is mixing up apples and orangse. Probably unaware of any facts in Darfur or Somalia. Darfur & Somalia are neither on the same location or rank in the UN, EU or AU concern, nor related or face similar problems. If I may suggest, look for better convicing ways to trash Arabs. Only helps your cyperspace persona a bit. Jimcaale, The article was written at the time when Sudan was hesitating to send or not to send Troops to Somalia.

Taliban, I don't know what the real issue in Darfur is, wether its oil or the drunk behaving Gaddafi feels like playing games, but Somalia would be in the same situation wether it was christian or Hindu. Its just too strategic, you can't miss it. Every Empire that was worth its salt never missed a piece of Somalia, wether it was portuguese, ottoman, british, french, soviet, american, ottoman egypt or angloegyptian and anyone who can row his boat or now fly a winger can't miss somalia. To add to this situation oil was either suspected to be there or found a 100 years ago. Only Irag and Iran were known by then. The Saudi oil was not found until 15-20 years after that. The moral of the story is some places have nothing to do with religion. They are just too hot. Religious conflicts may be used as tool to heat or cool what would have happened anyway.

Originally posted by Taliban: quote:Originally posted by Somali_Friend: Puntland is a state in Somalia Please elaborate what you mean by "state." If you are in US it would be a state just like California or New York If you are in Canada it would be a province just like Ontario If you are in Britain it would be just like Scotland place in the UK of Great Britain. All these places have different historical reasons and basis, but their relation to the government of the whole country or union they are part of is very similar.

Taliban, Just one small example: “Legally the Government is still the Government, but we are the power in Somalia. In order for the Government to fulfill its role, and for us to continue doing what we want to do and to provide leadership to our people, we need to come together” Shiek Hassan Dihir Aweye http://www.somaliweyn.com/pages/news/Sep_06/1Sep24.html

The Road to Darfur Region in Sudan, Lies in Mogadishu Somalia ust like Darfur Africans have blamed mounted Arab fighters for violence that humanitarian, officials say has made one million people in Darfur homeless. Up to 30,000 people are estimated to have died, the fast majority of Somali people, also blamed a raising violence, and humanitarian crisis toward Islamic Courts Union (ICU) in Mogadishu were people said their outward rejection of lawfully established Somali transitional government is one of the main reasons of looming, civilian hardship in southern Somalia. Since Islamic Courts Union (ICU) defeated the late anti-terrorists collision in Mogadishu area, the ICU’s temporary military victory over their rivals had drunken their minds, and politically impaired whatever chances, they might had of getting regional recognition as a perhaps part of future Somali government. But their closely affiliated of what international community called, "their unhinged support of global Al-Qaeda" were they even accused of locally harboring known and wanted Al-Qaeda fighters. getting late will only serve to the Bin Ladens of world, and their intention to turn that nation into living hell, were women, and children will be burned alive! Not only their putting of extreme ideology on mingling, and sometimes their fixation of local sharia, were (ICU) accused of literary punishing famine ridden people in the Banadir region area to death, But after the extreme hardliners of ICU, took the top leadership, such as Sheikh Hassan Dahir Aweys, According to Somalia political insiders that was the end of ICU’s political moderate, and beginning of fanatically charged leadership, were the Somalia helping neighboring countries, overnight become an enemy of the day, then finally that lead ICU to be called the sidekick of global terrorists. Sudan’s sinister motive for inviting both the Somali Transitional Government, and the ICU on hasty arranged conference The Sudan government’s failure to disarm well arm, and organized Arab militia called “Janjaweed” might have lead the international community to look in a badly managed humanitarian crisis in Darfur region. khartum talksWhen that situation in Darfur becomes globally spotlight, which then induced western governments to intervene, the Sudan government reluctantly agreed to the deployment of about 300 African Union troops to protect ceasefire monitors in the remote area of that region. But still the government would not agree the fully deployment of international force, then instead of solving its own problem, the Sudan government exported, and cunningly transferred it’s home grown trouble to Somalia, were the need of international peace keeping force is helplessly needed. So Sudan tries to sabotage, and halt African Union’s mandated peace keeping force to enter war torn Somalia.Somali Refugees As they analyst in recently the political observers in Sudan, said "the Sudan government may be trying to safe it’s own face by perusing the Somali Transitional Government, and the ICU, not to invite any peace keeping force in their country of Somalia, then if that happened; The Sudan government will argue that there is no need any peace keeping force in Darfur region" but the fact is; Sudan is wildly cheating international community by hiding behind Political chaos in Somalia, were it fictionally believed that by making peace between Somalis, it automatically brought justice, and honor to itself! On the other hand by trying to derailing a peace keepers' mission to Somalia, Sudan only brought itself to more, and more problems. Before, African Union, and international community solve any problem in Darfur region, they need to make livable place in Somalia first, and sent peace keeping force as soon as possible, getting late will only serve to the Bin Ladens of the world, and their intention to turn that nation into living hell, were women, and children will be burned alive! Because; the road to Darfur region in Sudan, lies in Mogadishu Somalia. Source: Radio Jigjiga

Taliban, Temporary, transitional or whatever word is used will not make a difference to the discussion. When you say ICU invited the government to Mugadishu to work together, aren't you evading something here? If you are interested in logic I give you a simple one: Puntland is a state in Somalia Puntland recognizes the TFG as Government of Somalia federal Puntland does not recognize ICU as government of Somalia. where does that leave you? Does Bay and Bakool recognize ICU or TFG as the government of Somalia? I didn't use this as example. I didn't want the discussion to be over a village or some town. Lets also leave Somaliland from the discussion which can be a diversion at this point. ICU also never disputed the parliament or its speaker. They might of course want more seats for themselves if an agreement is reached.

Taliban, Which ones do you want? The interviews shiek hassan tahir did The declaration from first Khartoum meeting The Invitation of TFG to Mugadishu to govern the country from Mugadishu instead of Baydhoa If you insist on a link I can find you one probably on Somaliweiyn easiest. My question has nothing to do with liking or disliking the TFG, but has all to do with political startegy and tactics of ICU.

Originally posted by Jimcaale: Thanks for the link tho I was expecting the picture of Cabdulaahi in uniform in the battle field. Sadly, a humongous disaster is befalling all over again. Ex-warlords armed with UN-US-EU-AU-IGAD stamp of approval to kill as much as desired. Melez's hard work has paid off and the ultimate goal is about to be carried out. Amxbaaro is glowing with pride right about now as poor nomads thinking of fleeing once again or die trying. Allow Muslimkaan gaalada ku adeegsaneyso indho u yeel. Allow masaakiinta dhexdooda ku jirtana faraj u fur. Jimcaale, We all should blame ourselves first for whatever is befalling us and our peoples. We have all made a habit of blaming europeans and americans. If Somalia was a superpower, do you think would have done different than that of china, britain or US? I doubt it. If we in east africa allow ourselves to be game for the arab who himself is game for the europeans and america, well we should doubly fault ourselves. I think you have a mistaken image of the poor Amara or Ethiopian in this case. He is himself a victim just like the somali. The day we remove the conditions that make us playing toy for the arab, will be the day we can all live in better peace.

Originally posted by Jimcaale: Can you post the link of the 'some outlets' in here if you don't mind? Actually, here is the whole clip from one of them Garowe online: ___________________________________________ Somalia pres visits the frontlines 9 Dec 9, 2006 BAIDOA, Somalia Dec 9 (Garowe Online) - The president of Somalia�s UN-backed interim government secretly visited his troops overnight Friday after heavy fighting broke out between government and Islamist forces earlier in the day, confidential sources said. President Abdullahi Yusuf was accompanied by his top military commanders on his visit to the troops, which military officials said was designed to further motivate government forces in the region. Heavy fighting erupted on Friday in Diinsoor, a district southwest of the government base at Baidoa. The Islamists have claimed victory and the government has denied such claims, but its difficult to independently confirm what any group says because communication lines to Diinsoor have been cut for the past week. Sources said President Yusuf urged government troops to prepare to continue the war against the Islamic Courts. The eruption of violence follows a decision last Wednesday by the UN Security Council approving an 8,000-strong African peacekeeping force to deploy in Somalia in support of Yusuf�s government. Violence continues Reports from the frontlines of the battle indicate that the two opposing military forces exchanged artillery fire on Saturday. Somali government troops and Islamist forces are facing each other in the Safar Noleys area in the outskirts of Diinsoor town, residents reported. One Islamist official told Garowe Online that fighting began again on Saturday and is continuing, adding that its difficult to ascertain the number of casualties. The government�s deputy defense minister Salad Jeele denied that heavy fighting was going on in the Diinsoor area, but admitted that there was war intensity in the region. Baidoa residents reported seeing hundreds of troops and weaponry leaving the town and heading to the frontlines.

What was the reason ICU declared repeatedly and loudly that ICU accepts and recognizes TFG as the legitimate government of the country? Was ICU expecting to make an inside coup and take and use the TFG legitmacy? Did ICU miscalculate the number of parliamentarians it can count on for this job? Did ICU failed to kill and scare enough parliamentarians from its opponents? what do you think?