If you are a moslem, you should know that, you are obligated to help when your fellow moslem anywhere makes a call for Jihad. If its an emergency, you are simply obligated to side with him and do whats required of you, without question. The one who made the call is responsible for its legitmacy and can be punished after the dust has settled if abused the faith for his greed and material benefit in wanting against others. If its not an emergency, like the ICU call, you are supposed to validate its legitmacy according to prescribed process and procedure. That was done . It was found out that ICU was abusing and misusing the call for Jihad for its own material benefit against other moslems in Somalia. ICU is a bunch of imposters. They do more harm to the religion than any non-moslem enemy you can think of. Thats the reality. Your Jokes aside.

Juje, What happened was that the ICU angered ethiopian moslems, even more than the christians, with the fake Jihad call by the ICU imposters. When the ICU realized that they will be faced by ethiopian moslems from the highest military commanders to soldiers, and the policy became an egg on their face, now ICU is trying to distance itself from any religious call. There is nothing more unIslamic than calling oneself Shiek and sepreme Islamic leader and announcing lie after lie against other moslems. Thats what happened with ICU. They cannot run fast enough away from that lie. It has been totally exposed according to the right process, procedure and validation of Jihad. What ICU do not understand and are avoiding is that, we ethiopians have now the right and duty of Jihad to protect the religion from imposters, and to protect ourselves from thugs in religious garbs.

Originally posted by Oromia: As I am from Hararghe I can tell you what the Oromos and Somali Galbeed think. The most important mission the ICU needs to complete is drive the Tigree dajjal army to Hararghe. Then the rest will be completed by Somali Galbeed and Barentumma Oromos. May Allah (swt) bless and help the ICU mujhadeen to up root this cancerous entity from the Horn. For the past 15 years Somali carnage and destruction is mainly caused by Tigre's inveolvement in Somalia. The same is true in Oromia, Eritrea, and Galbeed/******. Now, Alxamdullilax, and shukur for the brave men of the Islamic Courts the situation is changing. However, the Habash should not be allowed to do this again at all after they are defeated, Insh'Allah. Therefore, it takes a concerted effort and pulling together of resources of Somalis, Oromos, and Eritreans whether we are in the Diaspora or the Horn: 1) to beat back the Tigre militia back to home province Tigray and snacth all the districts it took from Eritrea and Oromia, 2) create a confedarate government of Somalia, Somali Galbeed/******, and Eastern Oromia 3) create a weak central Ethiopian gov't constituting Amxaras, Afars, Christain Oromos, Benishangules (Arabic Speakers), Gurages....so that Ethiopia will not create any probloem in the future to Somalis, Oromos, Eritreans, and even to our Sudanese brothers. The initial and urgent step to accomplish now though, I believe, is the creation of contact with the UIC with Shiek Jarra of the Islamic Front for the Liberation of Oromia(IFLO). I hear he is in Yemen? OLF is so weak and too corrupted x-tianized for this kind of grand startegy. Victory and Peace to Somalia, Oromia and Eritrea! This is a funny read for anyone who understands the lay of the land in Ethiopia, Somalia, Eritrea and Sudan, the 4 counties mentioned. So one province of Oromo, because you cannot be accepted by the 40 million Oromo will fight to the last Southern Somali. Thats exactly what Isyas is saying. He will fight to the last Southern Somali to liberate his 25,000 sq km that he is not free to do as his country. Why do you mix religion and provincial thinking? Aren't the Afar moslems or are they too close and too friendly to the Tigray for you? Isn't the Oromo half moslem half christian? How come you can only speak for a small province which is inhabited by the Hareri that you call little Tigre and the Somali that your organization calls Habesha somali. It would have been a lot easier and something Allah and Man prefers to have peace and brotherhood with your immediate neighbors and in this case all the same religion followers, than to go a 1000km trip to Mugadishu.

Ahmed_Guree, You cannot resist being ignored so let me give you why or what the reason is. I currently do not live in the Somali region, but I trust more the persons who spent have of their adult life fighting with arms and in politics for the right of the somali people. They are now in Addis Ababa and in Jijiga still fighting only politically and peacefully for the peace, development and rights of the somali. I would listen to them first and foremeost than someone in life of material comfort in US or Europe engaging in low culture arguments about people whom he is not willing to share a day of their life, problems and solutions. When one of the founders of ONLF decides that the ONLF has abondoned its past aims and turned into a racket in the service of other governments and groups, he reconciles with his WSLF colleagues, comes home and informs his people of whats really happening; I listen to him and give him the benefit of doubt more than I give to some internet postings. Thats the reason why.

Originally posted by Jaylaani: Defend your self where in Baydhabo? You and I both know Ethiopia is doing it for other reasons not to defend its sovereignty How the military tactics and strategy is implemented, we leave it to the military, but if you think the ICU is not after our very core and identity as people, you are mistaken. Here I give you a quote from Elias Redman, the vice chairman of the Ethiopian Islamic Affairs Supreme Council. It will give you a glimpse into what the imposters of Mugadishu are declaring against us: "Here, we were Muslims before the Mecca people, before the Medina people," he said. "We have the original books, and we are sharing the original Islam. They cannot tell us what Islam is."

Originally posted by Jaylaani: Tigray, Axmaaro..what is the difference? They all from the same flock of sheep. Jaylaani, This statement encapsulates what we ethiopians are saying or doing to defend ourselves: "Shiek Ahmed Aben said on his part there are 29,600 mosques in Somali state only and added that the jihadists have also declared war on these mosques and the laity who do their prayers in them. According to Sheik Ahmed, the people of Somali State are being administered under a federal system where they have their representatives and have also organized regional government, and on top of that its Sharia Courts are performing better than that of Mogadishu."

Originally posted by Jaylaani: quote:Originally posted by General Duke: The TFG has not declared war on any nation, group, individual or even substance. But the Axmaara did it for them. What is the difference? Jaylaani, What we ethiopians did and said was this: After proper investigation and following the prescribed process and procedure of Jihad, We have found it that the ICU Jihad call was unIslamic and those of ICU that called for Jihad are imposters. There fore ethiopians have the right to defend themselves against this false Jihad and the imposters who are misusing and abusing the religion for their personal or group material gain. Thats all we said.

HornAfrique, SICU cannot stop from making war. If they stop the questions will be coming fast at them from the people. Questions such as: Where is your government? How do you intend to reconstitute Somalia and what are you doing about it? where is your system of justice and peace and reconciliation? There is only and only one way to avoid these questions. Make war and news of war at all times. Mention ethiopia every minute. Don't ever mention TFG or other regions, only ethiopia. Don't mention other countries like kenya, so that the population does not feel ICU is making too many enemies for it. Its that simple. It worked in US for some years, fear of terror and "we are at war" and it will work for ICU for some time also saying "we are at war". The question is what happens when the population takes a break and starts asking, just like US.

ICU was trying to avoid governing the places they control. All ICU wanted to do was have perpetual wars and ICU doesn't have to answer any questions of governing. The Wadaads didn't want to get into the messy and sometimes unclean works governments have to do. Well now they are stuck in the territory they hold, cannot expand the war to other regions by deception, so they have to govern. The name they gave to the tax is as Orwellian as any western government. __________________________________________ Somalia’s Islamists begin collecting taxes in Mogadishu’s markets Aweys Osman Yusuf Mogadishu 11, Dec.06 ( Sh.M.Network) –For the first time since they took control of the capital Mogadishu, Union of Islamic Courts has begun collecting taxes from some business areas in Mogadishu. Islamists in Karan district, north Mogadishu, have been seen collecting taxes from people trading in livestock. Shiek Nur Tukuda, Islamic Courts chair for Karan district, said the taxation is meant by collecting money for the jihad or holy war against foreign troops in Somalia. “I received the order to collect taxes from the Islamic Courts financial department that has issued a decree,” he told reporters. Somalia’s Union of Islamic Courts encouraged people to take part in the jihad war they officially declared on Ethiopian troops in the country. Business people were urged to voluntarily offer the finances needed in the jihad, but this is the first time they announced a tax collection since Mogadishu fell into their hands nearly six months ago. Islamists said they were planning to impose the taxation, which will be renamed as “the contribution money” in other bigger markets in the capital like Bakara market. The transitional government started collecting taxes in Baidoa several months ago. Islamists presented the mount of tax money on livestock: a goat trader will pay 5,000 Somali shillings ($7cent) while a cow trader will pay 10,000 ($14cents) and a camel trader will pay 20,000 ($1.05) Somali shillings. So far, there was no opposition of the taxes imposed on the traders in Mogadishu. Islamic Courts vowed they would clear all Ethiopian troops away from the country following the approval of UN draft resolution on lifting the arms embargo on Somalia and letting regional peacekeeping forces be deployed in the country. Ethiopia rebuffed that it has thousands of combat troops in Somalia, but admitted it has several hundred military trainers and advisors at the government’s temporary headquarter of Baidoa to train government soldiers and protect the government institutions and senior heads. Somalia’s transitional government was formed in 2004 with the help of UN and international community after protracted negotiations, but remained powerless ever since it moved to Somalia. Experts fear that Somalia could become a battleground for long time rival enemies, Ethiopia and Eritrea, which fought their border battles in 1998 and 2004.

Originally posted by Naxar Nugaaleed: how low can these people go? It seems the ICU is so desperate, they even overused Shiek Ahmed, a person who was given the benefit of doubt by Somalis. The ICU is throwing everything at the TFG, this would be considered the kitchen sink. Selfishness and greed does that to the ambitious, but incapable to wait. When politicians are in a hurry to hide bad news they bring something so low you never expect it from them. So much for acting Wadaad. At some point the truth had to come out that these ICU folks are driven by human greed and selfishness like anyone. No more hiding it.

Originally posted by Oromia: Truth is easier to tell and also more stronger. You know that waqaafena, one of the major religions of the Oromo, besides Islam and Christianity is different in its faith system than both in the case of fortune tellers and witches. The liberator is first and foremost in you, before you go any further all the way to Mugadishu and putting all your hopes of being liberated on an imposter. Didn't I tell you I don't talk to Habash? Why you talking to me then? [/QB] You are in a Somali forum, but a forum. You are writing something about religion and also about ethiopia. I happen to know those were untruths and also ethiopian moslems don't follow fortune telling. Ethiopian moslems also know quite a lot about Hassan Tahir and they have spoken already. If you do not like to be told the truth, then don't bring untruth about ethiopian moslems to this Somali forum. Its that simple.

Originally posted by Juje: You guys have to give credit to the motivation factors of the ICU. What, with an Africa map that does not include Somalia this has to be big pulling power. Imagine how many people would side with the ICU cause they want to see Somalia back in the map. What a joke. If anything it shows that the ICU policy makers actually think low of the Somali intellect level. Juje, What the ICU are missing is that, these kind of big untruths work for a very limited time. If the ICU did not succeed in that limited time doing something very grand that can make people forget and get occupied by another new grand thing, then people question the sincerity and credibility. From there on its downhill. I don't think the ICU realizes how much the Fartaag moment and false announcements cost them in credibility. Before that incident most people would have accepted that Wadaads will tell something closer to truth or truth abut incidents. Not anymore.

Originally posted by Jimcaale: Study by who? Can you furnish the results of the study if you don’t mind? [/QB] I think if I mentioned to you the debate in the ethiopian parliament should suffice. It was public information and available to all interested. The debate was extended by a week, because some political parties wanted to make sure for themselves that not only there is nothing against Islam, but that there is nothing deviant in it. Governing party (EPRDF), the allied party SPDP, the opposition party (EDUP) leaders all confirmed that they seeked advice from religious leaders both from inside Ethiopia and outside and are convinced that the Jihad call from ICU is illegitimate/illegal. The reason is that the ICU declaration for Jihad obligates moslems to automatically follow the call. This is obvious already. What is an ethiopian moslem supposed to do? Since this is not an emergency he has to answer the following questions in the affirmative: 1. Was the declaration legal/legitimate 2. Was the process of validation followed 3. Was the procedure followed None of the three fundamental questions has affirmative answer. I don't think you expect me to provide links for the validation process or the legitmacy of Jihad call or the procedure on how to call a Jihad. You can also agree with me that the ICU was not on a 24 hr emergency when they declared Jihad. Actually the last one Hassan Tahir was consulting with Egyptian Intelligence chief. Since Somalis and Ethiopians are the ones immediately affected by the Jihad call, they are the ones who from individual, to communities to regions...that have to investigate and satisfy themselves of the decisions they take. Remember the issue is not that the imposters in Mugadishu should not fight against anyone, but the imposters should not abuse and misuse the religion. They can fight to their hearts content for land, for property, for money or vengence in Hassan Tahirs case, but do not abuse and give a bad name and image to the religion. Thats the whole point. The voting in the ethiopian parliament was: out of those opposed 9/10 were christians and their opposition was political and some as stated religious (do not allow any war period). more than 9/10 moslem members of parliament are in the government side parties. From the numbers almost all must have voted for the resolution to pass by more than 300 of the approximately 420 that were present during the vote. I hope that clarifies the ICU Jihad call and why the response from Somalis and Ethiopians is as it is.

One very funny message on the subject: "Ho Ho Ho.... This is a clear forgery as reported in the news given in the above link. It is clear the Islamic courts want to use this to mobilize the Somalis against Addis Ababa and Baaidoa. The irony of the matter is to see the islamic courts: such people of `the book` use such forgery. May Alah forgive them!"

Originally posted by mystic: OOoooh, you don't want the ICU to declare war on Ethiopia then i suggest you take your ET Soldiers out of Somali soil. If you are a muslim and the enemy is attacking you or your land, you have every right to defend yourself! How come you just conveniently dropped the word Jihad that we exchanged maybe about 5 or 6 posts? Did it fell through the cracks of conscience? What is your view now of the ICU Jihad declaration? let me ask you another question. Is Jihad and war interchangeable in your understanding or two separate issues?

Originally posted by mystic: Well tell that to your fellow president It is not the president of my country or the president of somalia that declared Jihad or conspire with an egyptian secret service against me. Its an imposter by the name of Hassan Tahir, whose official title is supreme leader by ICU.

Originally posted by Oromia: Oromos and most Muslims in Ethiopia believed and still believe the captioned prophesy that thier librator comes from the East. Is Shiek Aweys of ICU the flag bearer of that liberator? We will see. Truth is easier to tell and also more stronger. You know that waqaafena, one of the major religions of the Oromo, besides Islam and Christianity is different in its faith system than both in the case of fortune tellers and witches. The liberator is first and foremost in you, before you go any further all the way to Mugadishu and putting all your hopes of being liberated on an imposter.

Originally posted by mystic: do you have something to prove to us somalis or do you enjoy watching us divided and weak? On the contrary. I am not from Somalia, but I hope and wish all the best for the somali people. I wish Somalia to be soon reconstituted. I am convinced now the somali will see ethiopia as a market and who wants to destroy their market. I am convinced of that. The majority even absolute majority I would say don't see us as enemy, but as future friend and neighbor and economically as market and rent payer for the use of their ports. We are both tired of fighting for others benefit, while we are left poor, in famine, underdeveloped and in tears of wars and destruction.

Originally posted by mystic: Are your words the only evidence i am going to get? I think you know already, or I have to assume you know certain things: 1. When is a declaration of Jihad legitimate 2. What is the process on has to go through to assure the validation. 3. What is the structure or procedure N.B. One has to make sure the above is strictly followed and the conditions fullfilled. Don't forget that, moslems who are not in the area have to follow the call. Since the imposters in Mugadishu did not do any of this, and also their call was baseless, moslems close by geographically or from far are not obligated to follow. On the contrary moslems are obligated to expose imposters, because nothing harms the religion more than imposters.

Originally posted by mystic: I asked you a simple question what makes the declaration un-Islamic? I would need some prove and more inside to answer your questions. I don't know if the person is an imposter or not. What makes the ICU declaration of Jihad on Negash unIslamic is it did not satisfy the conditions and never followed the process/procedure. Since this declaration was not an emergency, it has to follow the complete process of validation and has to satisfy all the requirements of Jihad. The declaration from ICU did neither and all the Ulemma, Immams, Clerics referred to agreed that its not Jihad. Not a single organization or government in the moslem world has agreed with ICU in the declaration.

The egyptians are super greedy. They want to use the Arab Farsi and Sunni Shiia issues to benefit them alone. They know that they will be hired for these jobs, which thanks to American the egyptians have accumulated the structures and education for such. They are looking for jobs also in the military to protect Arabs from Iran in the service of America. The jeleousy of Egypt to Saudi Arabia is really devilish.

Mystic, Why would an egptian inteligence officer risk his life in Somalia when he has ex-president Abdullkassim or Hassan Dihir to do the job for him? The egptians don't get to recieve 2.2 billion cheque from America every year by getting themselves in trouble? They have Palestinians to suffer for it. Do you agree that Hassan Dihir is willing to do the job for the egyptians or not? The last time I checked he is a somali not only that he claims he is super somali and "super" moslem, if there is such a thing.

Labor in US is spelled Labour in Britain/Canada Color in US is spelled Colour in Britain/Canada Which one do you want? You spell Sheria the way you see fit in english. What takes you three postings on the issue of spelling, yet you refuse to answer the basic question. Is the Jihad declaration by ICU on Negash Legitimate? Some clerics have called it unIslamic and bogus/fake. Some clerics have also called the man who made the Jihad declaration on Negash as an imposter. Please do not misunderstand the above statements. Hassan Dihir can fight whomever he feels fighting like, but do not deny moslems to defend the religion from imposters abuse and misuse.

Originally posted by mystic: So we are to be punished for living in one of the most strategic location on the world. These other countries and nations need to back away from my people and nation. They did even meddling. I agree with you that its unfair for the somali to be victim of anyone who can row their boat or who can ride their mules, donkey or horses. But the only one who can make sure that happens is the somali. As an ethiopian and at this moment I can only tell you this: If you allow your house or your person to be used to destroy me in the service of egypt who wants to keep me in perpetual war and destruction and in poverty and backwardness so I cannot use the waters of my rivers fairly and equally sharing with them (Its Allah's gift to all of us, except for the greed of the egyptians); then expect me to fight for my survival. Its that simple and that straight forward. I have every right to fight for my survival and peace as long as I am not in want or fight for others lands and also no ill will to others.

Originally posted by mystic: You think a bunch of Warlords/TFG can rule and bring peace, take long look at Ethiopia. Observe the land and people, economic and development and tell me is that what you call a nation, just because you have a government and president doesn’t necessarily mean you are fit to be called a nation. If we let these warlords lead us then we will have a nation who has a population that is malnourished, with disease all over the place, people are poor and illiterate, the government is corrupted and they care only for themselves and not the people. I rather have a country who is without a government than one who has a government that doesn't cares for its citizens! Mystic, Let me assume you don't know, instead of accusing you of telling untruth on purpose about todays ethiopia. You are absolutely right, ethiopia was illiterate, famine and starvation, civil wars everywhere etc. A lot has changed of late. Those who want to change the situation have come to power. Just to give you a small example without going far distance from somalia: In the Somali region there was only one high school until the federal government was established. Now believe it or not there are 26 and a university is being constructed to open next year, there is a college already and a number of technical institutions. Everyone has local government to take care of local issues and nobody is being dictated from Addis Ababa. The federal government itself was set up by agreement of the regions and the regions agree what the federal government powers are. Ethiopia is moving fast. What you may hear the negatives are from the past. It takes time to completely defeat and burry the past and make the present visible for the future. The foundation is everywhere and by all accounts it looks solid.