^Good summary Geel_Jire.

^Good old Iran. If the clerics are deposed - this country will be indistinguisable from the west in mores, identity and clothing.

Lol - 6 pages on this and who doesn't remember the infamous thread on pro-gay books for 5 year olds. Gayness and gays is a hot topic on SOL - perhaps we should have a section for it

The search for big oil Joe Castaldo Canadian Business magazine Two years ago, the Transitional Federal Government of Somalia announced to the world it was essentially open for business. Prime Minister Ali Mohamed Gedi told reporters the country was prepared to offer oil, gas and mineral concessions to foreign companies, although this invitation came with a warning: all firms were to do business only with his government and not some clan jostling for power. "Any violation of this statement will result in negative consequences," he warned, adding that the "culprits will take the responsibilities on their shoulders." Issuing a threat along with a call for business may be unorthodox, but this is Somalia, after all, and one should expect unorthodoxies when doing business in a country that has existed without a strong, functioning government for 15 years. Despite the prime minister's ominous warning, and the violence and instability that have ravaged the East African country for years, a few oil and gas firms have dipped their toes into Somalia, while Vancouver-based Canmex Minerals Corp. has plunged headfirst. The company signed a partnership with Australian exploration junior Range Resources Ltd. in late January to explore for oil and gas in northern Somalia, marking one of the first extensive exploration efforts since civil war broke out in 1991. Canmex (TSXV: CXM) will spend $50 million on two basins in which it will acquire an 80% operating interest from Range should commercial production begin. Somalia has long been thought to contain petroleum reserves (oil exploration dates back to at least the 1950s) and many companies have tried to profit from whatever lies beneath the surface, including ConocoPhillips, Amoco and Total. But conditions have never permitted a successful drilling operation to be implemented. "It's a very good place to look for giant oilfields, and there aren't many places like that left in the world," says Canmex CEO Rick Schmitt, who is quick to dismiss the notion the Muslim country's fragile political situation could prevent the company from making any progress. This is despite the fact that some of the worst fighting in years broke out in March, with media reports estimating more than 100 people have been killed so far. "We don't have any concerns. Otherwise we wouldn't be working there," says Schmitt. Canmex acknowledges in its filings, however, that "the risk of war, terrorism…or nullification of existing or future concessions" could derail exploration efforts. So why is it worth the risk? According to Schmitt, a preliminary resource report indicates the potential for at least two billion barrels of oil on just one of the Canmex properties. (The other property has yet to undergo a similar assessment.) Canmex hopes to score in Somalia where the major oil companies failed, and it's connected with the successful Lundin family, who are accustomed to operating businesses in some of the world's most dangerous places. Swedish brothers Lukas and Ian Lundin oversee a portfolio of mining, oil and gas companies based in Europe and Vancouver, and have delved into Sudan and the Democratic Republic of Congo. The brothers got into the business thanks to their father, Adolf, a petroleum-engineer-turned-entrepreneur who made a number of oil and gas discoveries in Africa and South America. (Adolf died last September at the age of 73.) Canmex shares directors with other Lundin firms, and one of the family's private holding companies, Abalone Capital, is the largest shareholder. Canmex was founded in 1993 and languished in the Lundin portfolio for years as a shell company. That changed when Keith Hill, board member of a number of Lundin firms, learned Range Resources was looking to farm out oil exploration in Somalia. Range had signed concessions in 2005 with the state of Puntland, a semi-autonomous region in the northeast that, unlike the rest of the country, has a relatively stable local government. The concessions gave Range a 50.1% interest in all mineral, oil and gas development in Puntland, which is approximately 212,000 square kilometres in size. Hill contacted Schmitt about the project, who was then employed as a consultant to Lundin companies Pearl Exploration and Valkyries Petroleum, and who ultimately negotiated the farm-out deal and joined Canmex as CEO. Initially, the deal did not go over well with Prime Minister Gedi in the capital, Mogadishu. He wrote a letter to the Australian Securities Exchange arguing the concessions were not valid because only his government had the power to authorize them. But Gedi later expressed his full support for the venture. How Range was able to negotiate such a deal is a bit of a mystery even to Schmitt. "It's difficult to say how they got in there, but they've made a very successful job of it," he says. Somalia has been on the radar of oil companies for quite some time. The country was seen as a promising oil prospect since its geology is similar to that of Yemen, a country with nearly four billion barrels of proven reserves. Yemen's oil structures are thought to extend all the way down into Somalia. In 1991, the World Bank and the United Nations conducted a study of the oil prospects of African countries and identified Somalia as a prospective play. The political situation in the country fell apart that same year, however. President Siad Barre, who signed the concessions with western oil firms, fled in January. That led to a vicious power struggle among warlords, followed by U.S. intervention in 1992 on "humanitarian grounds." Troops were pulled out by 1994, after several dozen U.S. soldiers and hundreds of civilians had been killed. Oil companies had long ceased all exploration efforts by then. The oil potential of Somalia has largely remained a question mark ever since, while exploration in other African nations has taken off in part due to energy-hungry China. That country has invested more than US$4 billion in Sudan over the past 10 years, and spent US$2.2 billion in 2006 for exploration rights in Nigeria. While most oil exploration is concentrated in western African, the east is now getting more attention. "It's a frontier zone for the most part, but it's fast opening up," says Duncan Clarke, chairman and CEO of Global Pacific & Partners, a London-based oil and gas advisory firm. Clarke stresses that work in Somalia is still in its early stages. Canmex has yet to drill an exploratory well, and until it does, the project's viability is unclear.

^Whoa - you think you can just roll over the male population eh? I think I'll get outta the way cause I'm not so sure you can't PS - When you say 'light a fire etc' - there's only 2 ways to read that - nympho or psycho.....

^I don't think anyone is dismissing the different colonial history of the two sides. Or that the two entities werw separate. But if that is the sole basis of the move for independance - essentially we were once separate now we want it back - then that is the weak argument.

^lol - animosity much.

^I can hardly believe she made that suggestion and so cavalierly at that. Perhaps her signature should read a 'holic' of another kind.

^Well said Xiin. F-B is right in the sense that a dialogue is necessary to a reach a resolution(as opposed to war) but the basis for independance is not something that was reasonably articulated.

Originally posted by Mj. bada Cas: The Point, Only you know what can satify you, howevever. In this world we live in today, you have to lead by example. True enough but a reasonable argument has never failed to satisfy me. I hope that is what you present here. People raise the blue flag sing 'somaliyey tosoo' yet in reality they owe more loyalty to qabiil than to country at large. True enough. I highly doubt, however, that Somaliland has escaped that blight! That being said, Somaliland doesn't see anyone promoting good governance in Somalia. Every single member that is elected in Southern Somalia is former criminal or a foe to the Somaliland people. Somaliland is hardly a model of good governance saaxib. What it is - is the best model of decent governance that exists today on the Somali peninsula. Every single member?? This is the kind of hyperbolic crap that is the signpost of a crappy argument. Saaxib - the question is autonomy within a federal structure as opposed to independance. Let us assume that Abdullahi Yusuf and the TFG suceeded without ever bringing Ethiopia into Somalia. Do you think Somaliland would join that federal government? I think not, the reason being is because they know what kinda of individual Abdullahi Yusuf is. Odd. You embrace Kaahin but A/Y is a complete beast. The only reason he's there is because, inexplicably, his fellow delegates chose him. Now if you(Somaliland) were to throw in your lot with Somalia - I doubt A/Y will continue on as prez. So let us seperat fantasies or what 'ifs' from the discussion. Somaliland is proving itself that they can manage their part of map pretty nicely without even much of foreign aid, at the same token the other Somalis are proving that they are unable to get their acts together given millions of dollars worth of aid and expense of many efforts to reconciliate their differences. These people for some reason don't want to get their acts together. I don't know why you seek to disparage all Somalis except those in Somaliland. Yes - Somaliland has shown it can manage. So has Puntland. They are not as sophisticated politically as Somaliland but some semblance of decent authority is there. And even through the chaos of Mog pre-ICU - much positive economically was happening. And quite frankly - large parts of the south while not having any organized authority kept the peace and allowed for people to get on their lives. The picture you paint of Somalia without Somaliland is inaccurately bleak and simply not supported by facts. Millions of dollars of aid?? Now you're the one indulging in fantasies. There was no meaningful aid to southern Somalia since the UNOSOM pullout. The payment of hotels and airfares for assorted warlords to cajole them to form a government can hardly be construed as aid. Again, Somalilanders have chosen to remain seperate and have absulately nothing to do with Southern Somalia. This is permanant decision reached by the Somalilanders, therefore let us not waste time on 'why' however let us discuss 'how'. How can the trust between the people be restored and how can their be lasting peace between Somaliland and Somalia without another blood shed. LOL - you have barely addressed the 'why'- now you wish to move on? You're not much of debater eh? Absolutely nothing to do with the South?? There are vital economic, social and other links. I doubt Somaliland is an island unto itself. To simply answer your question, it's the people's choice. They say no to fake unity, and nay to federal government which is another case of unity. It certainly is the choice of a significant segment of Somaliland's population but you have not, again, addressed why the alternative of independance vs autonomy in a federal structure is the reasonable choice. PS - What the hell is fake unity?

Originally posted by Artful Dodger: The Point Bro, You made a good point but in terms of self-determination in the United Nations Human Rights Charter, the degree to which that self-determination is taken is up to the people. there is no convention in their that states that self-determination should be in an autonomy form for full scale independence as state. that is for the people themselves to decide. True enough though stating the obvious. There has to be a more reasonable explanation than they can do so. The question is why should they do so? Now somaliland folk have realised for them to have any chance of governing themseleves their best situation would be to have independence to run their country. their reason has largely to do with them having seen enough in 30 years being part of the Somali republic that in a union with the south their people and their needs have always been undermined and the massacre and Genocide in the late 1980's early 90's was the final straw of neglect and abuse they suffered as part of Union with South somalia. Walaal - the neglect of a place like Boasaaso(and others) was worse than the neglect of Hargeisa, Burco or Berbera pre-1988. The killings and atrocities in the South are just as bad if not worse. Additionally a quarter of million people starved to death in Bay and Bakool. Can you therefore blame them for becoming disilusioned with ever being part of another union with south somalia, be it as part of federalist governance system or not? Simple answer no. As shown in the above paragraph - suffering is hardly the domain of one group. As to the union - note this - the union did not cause the injustices you talked about. The injustices were caused by a bloodthirsty, tryannical, divisive dictator. Why is federalism no good? I don't think you addressed that. The best path forward for Somaliland is continued independent governance and that is their predominent wish which i feel should be adhered to. Again - you clearly failed to demonstrate why independance rather than radical autonomy. Another question - if those regions of Sool and Sanaag decide to throw their lot in with the other Somalis - would accept a truncated Somaliland state as such?

^Un-BO-lievable! And all this started by the Mujahid.

^Less of the filthy axmaros to bother with no?

^LOL - apparently the heat doesn't die down with age or matrimony

^Way too harsh and dismissive but funny in its own way.

^War Duke - maa iska amustid. He will turn on you next with that comment

Originally posted by Artful Dodger: Che, I think i may be able to shed further light on this issue. The main reason that i believe the Somaliland surge for Independence is justified is- Because it is a basic prinicple of the United Nations Charter of Human for everyone to have a right for Self-determination if he or she seeks. it was confirmed in the 2001 referendum that the Somaliland population unanimously wished for this to happen. I doubt anyone is against self-determination. Paricularly after the disastrous policy of concentrating all the power and assets in Mog. The question is why not seek self-determination through federalism within Somalia rather than outright independance. No supporter of Somaliland independance has been able to answer that to my satisfaction.

^I see - it's not enough that scholars and others have examined these transactions and approved - you must impute riba into it through your speculations. I don't know where Guidance Financial gets its loans - I don't even know who they are. Nor do I know what the terms of these loans are. What I do know - that any claim of Islamic financing is examined thorougly by scholars, approved under the right conditions and monitored carefully for the duration. Now what do you know or will you continue with speculation??

^Ok Xiin - just took a look at the website. They do provide financing and most of their clients do choose their financing. So yes - allah wax ka ficaan ah siiyo. But most real estate brokerages do not offer financing - they simply refer you to the bank. A real estate broker who is simply a middle man is not a haram job.

^Talk about placing endless restrictions on Muslims! When islamic financing is approved by Sharia boards and other scholars - I'm not sure where you come in and say it's all wrong.

^Horrible. Way to embody Islamic values!!! Let's beat up someone who says things we don't like. This religion needs no person's protection. If you object - object in the Islamically correct way - peacfully! :mad:

^CG - easy - it's a website in the public domain. Highlighting here is hardly worthy of disparagement.

^Here's the situation. A real estate agent is a middle man between buyer and seller. He makes money through a commission on homes sold. How the homes bought or financed is not in his purview. Obviously - almost all are done through riba financing but is he responsible for that?

^Good answer Nur. That question is in the same vein you see all the time. ie If God was merciful why all these starving people, dying of disease, etc. You wonder why all of these people don't to do anything themselves to alleviate the situation instead of engaging in useless speculation about the will of a higher power.

^LOL. I guess that SOL poll taken a while ago wasn't soooo off the mark.