Originally posted by AYOUB: ^^ Sool, Sanaag, Togdheer etc are multy clan as any part of Somaliland. Some people in there might have - you put it - a "clan bond" with Boosaaso while others don't. Bear that in mind. Some natives of this region have "clan bond" with Diridawa. Some Somalilanders have "clan bond" with Cali Sabhiix in Djibouti. Lascaanod is not special in this respect. As much as I appreciate your honesty, it's still kinda ironic to see you're using the "bond" reasons that caused dismantling of Rep of Somalia in the first place as excuse for keeping me out of Lascaanod. If you ask me, the Colonels and Generals from your neck of woods use this "clan bond" to send their malitiamen to Lascaanod and other "excuses" to send the same malitias to Baidoa, Xamar, Kismaayo etc etc. It's never their fault and they always come up with defending themselves when people resist them. BTW - Any attempt on Q #1? I can't help you with comprehension or reading difficulties vis-a-vis Q #1. It has been clearly addressed above. The argument is not based on any clan bond. Again - one wonders if you READ and then COMPREHENDED what I wrote. The argument against Somaliland is the opposition of the vast majority of SSC folks to the core political basis of Somaliland - which is that of secession. Simple as that. And please if we confine ourselves to Sool only - people know who inhabits that place - one hardly needs a demographics lesson from you. Where you got "clan bond" and "excuse for keeping me out" when I have made no mention of those things tells me a lot about your mindset.

Originally posted by AYOUB: Interesting, very interesting.... Let me ask one or two Q's.. 1. Do the signatures of Lascaanod elders who took part in the Burco Conference of 1991 mean anything? That's what ended the civil war in that part of the world as far as I can remember. Which means the reer Sool who still honour what they signed as men of integrity not traitors. It has been superceded/nullified by the arrangement to set up the Puntland regional government. Whatever party was part of the Burco conference subscribed to peace and reconciliation not secession. 2. As far as you guys are concerned, what's the argument against Somaliland for reer Lascaanod apart from... you've guessed it H-ism? I didn't see this much wailing when Cadde Muuse and Yey brought Ethio troops to Gaalkacyo. I didn't see this much wailing when US bombers were dropping bombs in Bari on behalf of the above no so gentle men? Toxic waste dumping? Deforestation? Apart from clannish pride, what the argument against Somaliland? Lascaanod will (inshallah) be ruled by elected local officials under Somaliland just Borama or any other town. The argument is simple. The residents there overwhelmingly do not share Somaliland's political and ideological agenda. It has been repeatedly rejected. Given that - a decent neighbour does not fund and incite thugs(in addition to its own army) in order to force its agenda despite the rejection. So what exactly are you going on about? Listen to Xiin and celebrate, if you're that pathetic, in secret.

d/p

Ootkac, ootkac and more ootkac. The Somali caviar that is cheap and goes with everything.

^That's the nice thing about Europe(dare I say the only thing ). Compact space and low cost airfares gives you such a range of choice. We have neither in North America.

On the lam eh? For a few dollars I'm sure some Somali will rat him out. Unless he's managed to escape the States.

^You are supporting Somaliland in this conflict which is interfering and supporting factions through funds and incitement. You failed to recognize how morally wrong it is to engage in incitment, hostility and aggression against a neighbour that is not in agreement with your political views. That is the failing I cite in your post. The cause of this latest conflict is clear. It stems from Somaliland's long held desire to force itself on the populations living within the borders of the former British Somaliland. It does this inspite of the clear and repeated rejection of Somaliland. What is your reaction to this sort of behaviour? Do you approve? Is it right? Why can't I get a Somaliland supporter on the record on this? You're right - oppressors will be thrown off in the end. I wonder whether you would ever admit that Somaliland is the oppressor if that happened.

Originally posted by Mslm: Red Sea: The Point, One has to wonder why were the SL troops stationed in dusty little village of adhi cadeeye for more than 2 years. And all of sudden why now, why now move towards Las Anod. If we use logic, there is nothing special about this timing for somaliland, evidently some reer Sool who are more than few and enough to make whole militias which are the natives of Sool are involved in this conflict. What do they want and whose interests are they serving? I can't say right now. But if we speak the truth that is the situation sadly. If somaliland felt the need to push towards Las Anod, they would have done in the past two years whether they fail or not, they would atleast attempt to take over Las Anod. Sool politics have shifted perhaps to not the favor of some or perhaps it might not be accepted by some of us, but so is the times that we live in. waa aduunyo laqabsada haka dhicinee. Besides we can blame somaliland for all we want and deny the fact that reer themselves are divided, but that is truth which being reported in every site. It seems to me that Puntland is losing the plot in every turn here. What the hell are you talking about? The troops were in Adhicaadeye to harass and be in position to force themselves on folks who didn't want to be part of Somaliland. Rer Sool who support Somaliland are few. About the same as Somalilanders who support the TFG. But why take my word for it. Go see what the Garaad has to say. He is the one who represents the people of Sool. Let me give you the lowdown - he and the vast majority of his folks don't support Somaliland or secession. The Somaliland army and its paid thugs have tried to put the move on Las Anod before. As with other places like Dhahar. This is just another incident in the pattern of agression and hostility. "waa aduunyo laqabsada haka dhicinee" - I hope you take that view when the instability and bloodshed heads your way rather than cabaad. The Rer are not divided. They have like all Somali rers those that are available for purchase and who go to the highest bidders. I don't think Puntland is the loser here in the end - it's your chershised entity's long run stability and viability that is the loser. Again - what is the Somaliland interest that is served here by this latest outrage?

Originally posted by Mslm: Red Sea: The Point, kuwa mawqifka somaliland taageersan ee udhashay meesha maxaad ka odhan lahayd, because obviously there are folks hailing from the area that support SL and are along side the SL troops? Adeer - the entity that you support funds them, incites them and launches them - and the ONLY reason that they taageer Somaliland is the first point - namely funds - money, cash, green, moola. It is not political or idealogical. And the few thugs on Somaliland's payroll don't represent the wishes of the majority. Is this not inappropriate? Is such hostility and agression praiseworthy? Is it really worthy of chest-thumping and gloating? Can it be tolerated for long? Given the folks in Las Anod and in the surrounding areas do not support secession - how does this benefit Somaliland in the long run? Will it not lead to a further destabilizing of Somaliland and the probability of a counter attack? Where's the intelligence and thoughtfullness here?

^The only thing I cheerlead for is the proper use of the English language especially when so clearly pointed out to you.

Originally posted by Fatah_Al_Soomaal: quote:Originally posted by ThePoint: ^If it really was them - then there would be no talk of Somaliland army or Somaliland troops. And our friends from Somaliland would not be expressing the joy and boasting we've seen on SOL. Be serious. Believe me my good friend, I am more informed and more aware of what is going on than most. The Somaliland militia are local subclans miltia. Anyone who trys to tell me any different doesnt know what he is talking. And I dont mean to come across as an arrogant man when I say this. Spare me the sophistry. The vast majority of Las Aond folks and the SSC folks don't support Somaliland and its secession bid. They want nothing to do with it. So there should not be any funding or incitement of any folks against the city of Las Anod or its inhabitants. In any normal context such actions would be hostile and tantamount to a declaration of war. End of story.

Originally posted by Oodweyne: Dear Mr. The-point , Your rude remarks that are in here, merely bespoke, in my view, rather the spleen of an exposed nerve at best, or perhaps, you are one of those, that was lead to believe that Somaliland has no right to Laascaanood City in the first place.... I rude and you polite. Some folks take easily to fallacy and self-delusion. I noticed you skipped most of my questions above. Kindly address each and every one if one is take you seriously. (1) - Regardless of how many turgid clannish pamphlets that you may read in regards and have swallowed it, in regards to Lascaanood being a property of Puntland; one can safely say to in here, do not go deluding yourself in that manner accordingly; and see to it, if anything, to notice that the recent fight is between a two side of the same city - in the clannish sense . Las Caanood is the property of those who live in it. The extent to which they support or are part of the Puntland regional government is irrelevant. What is relevant is their rejection of the Somaliland government, its secession bid and its forcible attempts at coercing the good folks of Las Canood into their project. If the recent fight is in fact within one clan - why is there talk of Somaliland capturing the city, Somaliland troops, Somaliland this and Somaliland that. In short - why are you gloating and boasting if the locals have 'liberated' the city? And why are you involved in the internal politics of a different clan? Is it appropriate for Puntland or any other entity to fund and incite factions within the Somaliland polity? Clearly not. (2) - And secondly, do not, at all cost, go into that gentle night, with the assumption that Somaliland will forgo her right to her eastern territory on behalf of this fallacious entity that is called Bugland ( that claims these territories on a the basis of clannish chutzpah ). LOL - eastern border!!! Presumably - to be internally consistent and not a complete and shameless hypocrite - you support the right of the Federal Governement of Somalia to secure its northern border through funding and inciting of bought thugs and agents and then launching repeated operations on the said border. + Somaliland is a self declared country - it has no right or standing to secure ANY border. And if it is the undiscovered 'beacon' of Africa - it should hardly use thuggery to force folks into its orbit. Or is the so called beacon a veneer only and petty clannishness dressed up in sophistry? Personally - I don't support any forcible attempts to bring Somaliland back into the Federal Republic of Somalia at any future time. I think dialogue and negotiations are the right way forward. You on the other hand support the use of incitment and agression and a small band of bought criminals to foist yourself on folks who have clearly rejected your enterprise. That is the hallmark of a thuggish, ultra-qabiliste, arrogant and ultimately niave character. Is there anything more left to say here.

Originally posted by Caano Geel: point, your too intelligent not to know pattern of aggression in the somali context is the body bags of innocent somalis, men and boys, not the aggressors. that the gains to be made or lost arn't for the people subject to their rule. without sounding sanctimonious, sometimes its good to have a reality check, parts of somalia are currently in the midst of the worst draughts for a generation. You know of the mass internal destitution, no aid coming in, no support, no saviour in the horizon. with all the this, the audacity of the warm and well fed to chant war cries behind their monitor glows is rich. now on the back of the month of ramadam, to call it barbarian wouldn't do it justice I don't like the 'This is war' and 'Let's go to war' talk when one doesn't feel the effects of it and when the gains, if that is it can be called, benefit few. That said - I don't believe in pacifism. There is a pattern of agression and incitement here on the part of Somaliland towards parts of SSC who simply don't support secession and don't support the Somaliland government. And no amount of talk, consultation or assembly has been able to arrest the pattern of incitement, agression and conflict. Isn't there a threshold after which even peaceable folks say that we have strike back if only to prevent further attacks? You're an intelligent fellow - what are your thoughts on this? Or are you our resident Buddhist?

^If it really was them - then there would be no talk of Somaliland army or Somaliland troops. And our friends from Somaliland would not be expressing the joy and boasting we've seen on SOL. Be serious.

^But you said 'I fail to see how this question is IRrelevant'. Oh never mind.

^I also 'fail to see how this question is irrelevant' - so I'd love to hear you answer it.

^Adeer go easy on the chap - the zeal to highlight every single post means you miss the gist(intelligent or otherwise) of what you're trying to convey.

^Me a blind opponent of Somaliland? But that would presume Las Canood is part of Somaliland. And that Somaliland forces have a right to be there and wage war there. Ummm - I think not. The Somaliland government is funding and inciting a small group of thugs from SSC and that you gives you the temerity to refer to 'various factions'. Why are you interfering and supporting various factions in a place that wants nothing to do with you? Why is your army there in this place that wants nothing to do with you? Why are you not against naked agression that is of no benefit to Somaliland folks? Caajib. And I'm called blind. Go figure.

CG - I fail to see your point here. The recent events are part of pattern of aggression and incitement. Enough is enough.

Originally posted by Oodweyne: ^^^ Waryaa yaa sheekh Suldaan ( Salaan Sare ); intaa dabadeedna waxaan ku idhi aar kadaa, inaadeer, kan Duke ah, isaga shaqadiisu waa Copy-and-Paste , oo intaaa garasho u dhaafsiis, looma dhalin. Markaa, madaafiicda rigliga ah, iyo Kaftanka aan deelqaafka lahayn, ragga wax garad ka ah, ee reer puntland u miis ( waar tolow Yaa arkey Mr. Baashi , baryahan ). Hase ahaatee, kan Duke ah arrintiisu waa fish-and-chips iyo waxa aan dhaafsiisneyn, ee u aayar.... Regards, Oodweyne. Walle edeb darro baa ugu sii darteen xad gudub. What are you doing invading Las Canod? Where do you get the idea that there are no conseuquences to falaago? What are you boasting about exactly? Isn't this the perfect opportunity to launch a major counter attack well into Burco and other areas of Somaliland proper? Aren't you asking for a bloody nose? How can you possibly criticise anyone let alone Duke with the garbage you've posted regarding the events in Las Canod?

^Good question. I think his Somaliland 'trip' was in his own mind.

Originally posted by Northerner: quote:Originally posted by ThePoint: quote: Originally posted by Northerner: ^^how long will we ignore the split in LA yaa Xiin? This is not an issue exclusive to SL (regardless of how MM, Fahiye and TP try to spin it). Originally posted by Mslm: Red sea: now we see reer Laas Anod are divided here aren't they? one side supports Puntland and then there is a side that supports not. This is ridiculous. Everyone knows the vast majority of SSC folks are against secession and the Somaliland project. The question remains then(and I like the dancing around it) - why is the Somaliland government arming, financing and inciting a small number of criminals who don't reflect the will of the majority in SSC? And why are the Somaliland supporters in agreement with this policy? Let's go Somaliland supporters - articulate a position here. As for why SL is interfering in Sool I think that is obvious. Asking people questions about why they want to fight their own people and not display the 'nationalism/somalinimo' they have been using for years on these here threads does not constitute support to either side ya TP. Now, I ask, where is all that 'somalinimo' got to? Sorry Eid break. Northerner and Oodweyne - this has nothing to do with Somalinimo or its permutations. It has to do with naked clan based incitement and aggression which seems to get tacit support from both of you given the diversion to 'Somalinimo'. These folks whom the entity you support keeps attacking want no part of the Somaliland project. The plea is leave us alone. Why haven't your political masters heeded it? Of what national interest is this to Somaliland? None of this is even considered - just blind support for Somaliland.

^Caamir - let's deal with facts here. In the Somaliland army - there are folks from SSC. And they are part of those attacking Las Anod. Thus you can't simply close your eyes to that. Clearly - these above mentioned folks don't represent SSC and are bought agents and thugs. But their existence cannot be denied. Nevertheless I am eager to hear the position of the Somaliland supporters on their approval of the incitement by the Somaliland government. Don't keep me in suspense yaa jamacaa.

^War Khalaf - this girl is stalking you. Watch out

Originally posted by Northerner: ^^how long will we ignore the split in LA yaa Xiin? This is not an issue exclusive to SL (regardless of how MM, Fahiye and TP try to spin it). Originally posted by Mslm: Red sea: now we see reer Laas Anod are divided here aren't they? one side supports Puntland and then there is a side that supports not. This is ridiculous. Everyone knows the vast majority of SSC folks are against secession and the Somaliland project. The question remains then(and I like the dancing around it) - why is the Somaliland government arming, financing and inciting a small number of criminals who don't reflect the will of the majority in SSC? And why are the Somaliland supporters in agreement with this policy? Let's go Somaliland supporters - articulate a position here. Red Sea - what willful deception. That is irrelevant. What is relevant is that the majority of the SSC don't support Somaliland secession so stop attacking them. Leave them be or this falaago will come back and bite you in the azz.