The bottom line for Somalia's problems is this: Political power is used to steal resources, either through outright theft or by conferring governmrnt jobs onto your relatives. And the primary factor that determines how resources are misused is qaabiil. It is not qaabiil that is the problem per se but how the political system is abused on the basis of qaabiil. To that end I would: 1- Hold elections for political positions which must be certified by outside election monitors to be accpeted 2- All political positions are to be subjected to annual audit done by outside parties - every cent must be accounted for 3- Political positions have no power of patronage - ie. simply because you have been elected you can't employ half your cousins in various jobs 4- All government jobs are subject to a national exam - those individuals who score the highest get the jobs - if there are more individuals than jobs a lottery will determine who gets in 5 - For government jobs that require no skills per se - it will be done by lottery

^When are you joining the exodus from Scandanavia to the UK?

^Wrong post eh? :confused:

^Try again Zafir. Originally posted by Cara: ^Not necessarily. There are only a few men who chew daily. Banning khat for them will be painful, but they are unlikely to suddenly become functioning members of society. Not if welfare checks are still easier to come by than the reward of honest work. I'm guessing there will just be an increase in fadhi-ku-dirir gatherings at the local coffee shops. Ahh! See - it's not a question of those folks suddenly becoming model citizens. That just obfuscates the issue. It is a question of probable harm reduction - for both the individual's pocketbook and health. Occasional chewers will do what other people who enjoy illicit drugs do: find a source and pay a little more than they are used to, or give it up. Since the terribly detrimental effects of khat on the community isn't stemming from the once-monthly masticator, it's hardly reasonable for taxpayer money to be wasted on enforcing the control of yet another illicit drug. Yet they will probably feel the brunt of it, since they can potentially lose jobs if arrested. In fact - occassional chewers are more likely to give this up altogether given the increased costs a ban would involve. LOL at taxpayer money wasted. Any ban would hardly call for more resources simply for this particular drug. It would call for using the resources already in place against illicit drugs to seize and confiscate khat. ie. airport screeners would add khat to their list of things to search for. End of story.

Funny!

Some of this has been posted before - you should do a search. You should also just post them on the page using the image utility. And your shots could be better. Farmland south of Jowhar Farmland Bakool Mountains extreme northeast Coast south of Kismayo

A belated Happy Birthday Dahia The Note Taker.

^at least he went some way to answering the question I refuse to do someone's homework without getting some sort of compensation

Originally posted by -Serenity-: I totally agree with Baashi and co here. Banning khat will most certainly reduce the number of consumers and its spread. Which is the eventual goal - it doesnt matter if a small number of ppl still get it via the black market. Most people will quit if its banned and becomes illegal (and we wont have to be subjected to that unsightly man with green stuff in his mouth on the trains ). This is precisely right. And if as all the folks above say - only a tiny proportion of folks have a real problem(less than 10% as they say) then a ban shouldn't be a big deal. All the ocassional chewers can just subsitute an espresso. At the end of the day, A ban on khat = raising the cost of chewing khat (monetarily and criminally) = a likely reduction in frequency of chewing and the onset of new chewers = a better outoome for the Somali community

Originally posted by underdog: If I, as a consenting adult, choose to engage in some recreational weekend munch-sessions, aren't you violating my free-will by trying to ban khat? If I'm a functioning member of society who occasionally enjoys unwinding with some miraa in the privacy of my own home, will you come to my door and arrest me? No - no one is violating your 'free will'. You can still choose to indulge in your khat sessions. Only if a ban goes into effect such indulgence may result in penalties. At that point the true cost of khat will become apparent to you.

Photos would be nice but in the meantime just go to Google Earth and you can get an up close satellite picture. It's at 10,44 N by 47,14 E.

Madness but they won't go over the brink.

I find ludicrous the argument that 'banning' X or Y (or Khat) will 'drive it underground' and that a ban accomplishes nothing. There is a 'demand' for everything in society from khat to sex with underage children. At some point a society draws lines - I think people need to focus on where that line should be rather than a baseless argument about driving it underground. IMO - khat should be banned in the UK. Much of the UK trade fuels the khat that gets into North America. And quite frankly paying a higher price(both in dollars and criminal penalties) for consuming this crappy green leaf is warranted.

^It really doesn't matter whether it's copy and paste. It's knowledge all the same. It is 2 opposing viewpoints on the question you and some one else were debating. And the articles are a good read as they provide a deeper anaylsis of the complexities of the debate. Read it - it really is in your own best interests. Thanks Northener.

^No you - peacenow! Are you gonna answer it?

^Sorry. Adeer - you're a research machine(what I don't know). Maybe you should do tutorials for the rest of us on all the knowledge you're finding out - in the Nur topics type of vien.

^ The question is: what has Islam go to do with a particular country being a good or bad place to live?

^War daa ninka. Even when we get agreement - why must Somalis seek to change it to disagreement? I too vote for the 2 ladies. Time to dump the men as Somali leaders.

^Haha. At a certain age - it's best to tell a loser like that to leave your home and become his 'own man'. I've seen countless examples of parents, especially mothers, providing housing, food and a cleaning service for folks like that. On top of that - many cause them endless headaches as they get into scrapes with the police and gangs etc. These parents have to bear some of the blame on this particular front. You have to tell your child - look you're a big net loss - so to reduce my loss and hopefully make you a mature and thinking adult - go out on your own. Pay for your own housing, for your own food and cleaning. Othewise as a parent - you're enabling the loser ethos of your child. And that's my 2 cents.

I'm not sure why the Odinga partisans are issuing threats of unrest and chaos if they don't win. Things will get sorted out soon enough.

^You asked him the wrong question Thierry. In his mind there is a lot 'wrong' with Islam. The question is: what has Islam go to do with a particular country being a good or bad place to live? Most would take Saudi Arabia over Congo - showing that Islam is not issue but other things are. Hope it starts to register peacnow.

Originally posted by Sue: well I'm glad some of you don't come across this backward way of thinking. So just to make sure...no one here has ever heard elders calling a girl ugly because she isn't covered? I know we wear see through dircas without people raising eyebrows but hey it's ok because it's a wedding! you can flaunt yourself at weddings and any other time it's bisinka haraam! it's this type of strange contradictions that makes me really loose my confidence and respect for our culture. I'm not really a fan of somali music but from what I've been told it's usually talking about women's bodies in a rather perverted manner, so I've been told anyways. That's hardly mmmh a postive thing. Aaliyah I know why they're doing it but I don't think it's the healthiest way I just think that method is more likely to have the opposite effect. And thepoint I think you've missed my point, I'm not saying bear all. Anyway, I guess I'm alone on this one as usual. Some Somalis are ignorant and prejudiced. You could say most actually. But if they want to label ugly skimpy dressers - that's a personal choice. I don't approve of it - it's narrow minded - but whatever. I don't think it's a big deal. Somali weddings are usually segregated - so to dress it 'up' is the norm - women showing off to women - par for the course that. I'm not sure where your disapproval is coming from on this score. As to Somali music - I think you have to listen it to for yourself rather than relying on others' possibly limited experience. From the little I know - a lot of Somali music is about the 'daalka' they've managed to ruin. Have you gotten the answers that you wanted on this thread? I get the impression you are unsatisfied as to the responses.

^Perhaps I should word my question differently. What is it in her record that so inspires/dazzles you, at a personal level, so as to take up her cause so vociferously here on SOL?

^About what? Skipper - it was a joke.

^It's not all about the white man North. Asians and South Americans did it on their own. Just please leave Islam out of it.