Originally posted by Curly: ^^^ have another read...you'll notice the first comment was directed at you. The rest was directed at all nomads in regards to the book and the author. Let me get this right now I’m hypocritical because I abhor this woman who's potentially setting us back and because I was standing up for working mothers? OK Just for the record my argument wasn't about judgement...it was about not branding someone negatively for doing something admirable! Why is the first comment directed at me? It implies you have a detailed knowledge of my views on women and family. Clearly you do not. Setting us back? This is the problem. She can't set you or any other women back. She can only do what she feels is right for her family. This argument is exactly like those who say hijab/burqa wearers are setting women back when it's only a personal choice. You are being hypocritical when you acknowledge a choice for yourself but you don't allow others a different choice than yours. Or you claim that another's choice has a negative impact on your choices going forward. Cajeeb. I didn't brand anyone period. And I don't know as to the something that is admirable. If you mean being a working mother - then that is a value judgment you have made rather than something that has been proven through a sound case presented here.

Curly this defensive posture of yours is not doing this discussion any good. I made no claims on choice - I think as mentioned here - some woman would rather work because of non-monetary reasons such as accomplishment, satisfaction etc. And that's fine. What I did question was this mantra of a household with children can't survive unless both parents are working ie. I need to work otherwise the world will end as we know it. As to your myriad off-topic complaints: 1- Somali mothers wanting more or whatever for their child is fine. But I think as most intelligent people will accept time spent with your child is another valuable commodity. All the money in the world can't make up for quality time with your child. You have to try to make the most appropriate tradeoffs for you and your family here. 2- Please leave people who take benefits alone. They are not a generic group. Those who do deserve criticism are those who are fairly young, know the language and have been in the country for a long time but still take benefits. A middle-aged man or woman recently arrived from Somalia who decides to focus on his/her children(and take benefits) instead of a low-paying dead-end job has made the right choice in my opinion. 3- I didn't look down on anyone. And all the recent headlines regarding Somalis don't matter a hoot. I don't make my decisions on what society thinks of my countrymen nor do I suspect you do.

Originally posted by Curly: And why does it not surprise me Elpunto that you're here posting this claptrap? I for one will not be humouring this sort of twaddle on SOL. I think we ought to have a strict zero tolerance approach because joking or not you're sending out a message. I'm ashamed that it was a Somali woman that wrote this book and in this centry! I really do think you need to relax and reassess things calmly and coolly. You don't know me and my views on women, family or children so jumping to conclusions is mistaken. The reason I posted this was because of its humour and its contrarian views(the current model being you can have it all). And no I don't agree with most of what she wrote(not that it has any bearing on my ability to post this). Sending out a message? I think women can make up their own minds. They don't need you or I to moderate or censor what is available to them. As to you being ashamed of this woman - I find such a notion hypocritical. On the one hand - you don't want to be 'judged' for being a working mother or putting your child in daycare but you are quick to judge this woman and her particular views on marriage and family.

^Jacphar, the poster is not questioning whether people can choose their own system of governance but whether this system is better than the secular model in the first place. Originally posted by ailamos: quote:Originally posted by ElPunto: There is a simple answer here. As a Muslim one believes that Allah's method for governance, if properly applied, will be superior to whatever man-made systems there exists including the secular ideal you espouse here. That there haven't been any present day examples doesn't mean that this quest should be abandoned or that it is hopeless. Thanks for the reply, I appreciate your response... could you be more specific as to what you mean by the "proper application" of such method's of governance? What would be the use of religion in governance if citizenry would follow the principles of basic human decency and civility? Isn't that the reason religion was laid down in the first place? to "civilize" people? also, what can Shariah do that Civil laws can't? Properly applied to me means by people who have both worldly knowledge and religious knowledge and who have gained experience and wisdom in a variety of capacities and settings. Religion(Islam) is the backbone and wellspring of basic human decency and civility. The combination of Islamic belief and governance reinforces and infuses the political system with the aforementioned decency and civility. Religion also inspires its adherents to a higher moral and ethical plane than non-theistic belief/governance systems. Edit: I think when you characterize some punishments as not modern you head into a slippery slope.

^Living standards have gone up over time as they generally do in a growing economy. Your lifestyle, however, is something that is under your control. I have no firm opinions on this but I think this 'We must have 2 incomes to survive' is not altogether always accurate. Especially when you subtract the cost of childcare from one of the incomes.

Palestians have been dealing with an occupation for 60+ years. They are organized and educated and united. They are 'supported' by their fellow Arab states whose oil gives them influence and clout on the world stage. There have been 3 regional wars surrounding the Palestinian issue that have involved many countries. It really isn't the same set of circumstances at all. Somalis have only themselves to blame. If a country like Rwanda that had 800,000 people slaughtered can get back on its feet then what excuse do we have.

There is a simple answer here. As a Muslim one believes that Allah's method for governance, if properly applied, will be superior to whatever man-made systems there exists including the secular ideal you espouse here. That there haven't been any present day examples doesn't mean that this quest should be abandoned or that it is hopeless.

What a tragedy. If a dollar went to charity everytime the phrase - poorest country in the western hemisphere was uttered - it would do a lot to help with the fundraising drive. It might not be appropriate but I can't help thinking death might be a blessed release for the child growing up in the slums of Port-au-Prince.

Pay attention here ladies: This book “How to Make Your Man Happy” is the brainchild of Zahra J. Saleh Don't dismiss it!

Originally posted by Curly: The reality is that many people can not afford to have only one household income whilst raising children, unless you're planning to marry a guy who comes from money or earns a salary to cover you all...(your odds are a little slim there) Given that the large majority of us live in the western world we find ourselves in a position that we must work even without children. I'd love to stay at home with my child but the simple fact is you can't I'm really not sure about this. Forty years ago before the advent of large numbers of women in the workforce most households were one income households and they managed successfully raising kids, owning their homes, taking vacations etc. I think what has changed is perceptions of what you 'need' to live comfortably. What is in fact a choice(since you can live on $50,000 just not as well as you could on $100,000) has morphed into a must.

This sort of article is over the top criticism and in a number of instances hypocritical. That the folks who built the Burj haven't been to the top is pointless. How many construction workers relax/sightsee in the buildings they contruct? They just move on to the next site - it is a job after all. As to the 4 million gallons of water etc - check out Phoenix, Palm Springs and other desert cities in the States - do they use any less water than Dubai? So what if the architecture is American, design European etc? There is nothing wrong with importing talent and skills. Heck that is a huge part of the success of the States. Where there is a real problem is the treatment of labour in the UAE and the Gulf in general. Non-existent safety standards, substandard accomodation, absconding with pay, witholding passports and arbitrary deportation. That is where the real criticism should be directed at. Funnily enough before its implosion, Dubai was touted everywhere as the model for the Muslim world and nary a word was said about its faults. You can't win with western media.

^Have you morphed into Layzie? That guy was such a blowhard.

^He resigned under pressure. Both sides called amicable! He had a big gaffe with the 'Barack Obama is not born in the States' brouhaha over the summer. One of the leading instigators.

There is hope. Peacenow likes some Muslim people and their dress.

^Representin! err representimo? Funny how nowadays you don't hear much about illegal alien invasion etc. Thank God Lou Dobbs is off the air on CNN.

Of course this had to turn political too!

The Tel Aviv Cluster By DAVID BROOKS Published: January 11, 2010 Jews are a famously accomplished group. They make up 0.2 percent of the world population, but 54 percent of the world chess champions, 27 percent of the Nobel physics laureates and 31 percent of the medicine laureates. Jews make up 2 percent of the U.S. population, but 21 percent of the Ivy League student bodies, 26 percent of the Kennedy Center honorees, 37 percent of the Academy Award-winning directors, 38 percent of those on a recent Business Week list of leading philanthropists, 51 percent of the Pulitzer Prize winners for nonfiction. In his book, “The Golden Age of Jewish Achievement,” Steven L. Pease lists some of the explanations people have given for this record of achievement. The Jewish faith encourages a belief in progress and personal accountability. It is learning-based, not rite-based. Most Jews gave up or were forced to give up farming in the Middle Ages; their descendants have been living off of their wits ever since. They have often migrated, with a migrant’s ambition and drive. They have congregated around global crossroads and have benefited from the creative tension endemic in such places. No single explanation can account for the record of Jewish achievement. The odd thing is that Israel has not traditionally been strongest where the Jews in the Diaspora were strongest. Instead of research and commerce, Israelis were forced to devote their energies to fighting and politics. Milton Friedman used to joke that Israel disproved every Jewish stereotype. People used to think Jews were good cooks, good economic managers and bad soldiers; Israel proved them wrong. But that has changed. Benjamin Netanyahu’s economic reforms, the arrival of a million Russian immigrants and the stagnation of the peace process have produced a historic shift. The most resourceful Israelis are going into technology and commerce, not politics. This has had a desultory effect on the nation’s public life, but an invigorating one on its economy. Tel Aviv has become one of the world’s foremost entrepreneurial hot spots. Israel has more high-tech start-ups per capita than any other nation on earth, by far. It leads the world in civilian research-and-development spending per capita. It ranks second behind the U.S. in the number of companies listed on the Nasdaq. Israel, with seven million people, attracts as much venture capital as France and Germany combined. As Dan Senor and Saul Singer write in “Start-Up Nation: The Story of Israel’s Economic Miracle,” Israel now has a classic innovation cluster, a place where tech obsessives work in close proximity and feed off each other’s ideas. Because of the strength of the economy, Israel has weathered the global recession reasonably well. The government did not have to bail out its banks or set off an explosion in short-term spending. Instead, it used the crisis to solidify the economy’s long-term future by investing in research and development and infrastructure, raising some consumption taxes, promising to cut other taxes in the medium to long term. Analysts at Barclays write that Israel is “the strongest recovery story” in Europe, the Middle East and Africa. Israel’s technological success is the fruition of the Zionist dream. The country was not founded so stray settlers could sit among thousands of angry Palestinians in Hebron. It was founded so Jews would have a safe place to come together and create things for the world. This shift in the Israeli identity has long-term implications. Netanyahu preaches the optimistic view: that Israel will become the Hong Kong of the Middle East, with economic benefits spilling over into the Arab world. And, in fact, there are strands of evidence to support that view in places like the West Bank and Jordan. But it’s more likely that Israel’s economic leap forward will widen the gap between it and its neighbors. All the countries in the region talk about encouraging innovation. Some oil-rich states spend billions trying to build science centers. But places like Silicon Valley and Tel Aviv are created by a confluence of cultural forces, not money. The surrounding nations do not have the tradition of free intellectual exchange and technical creativity. For example, between 1980 and 2000, Egyptians registered 77 patents in the U.S. Saudis registered 171. Israelis registered 7,652. The tech boom also creates a new vulnerability. As Jeffrey Goldberg of The Atlantic has argued, these innovators are the most mobile people on earth. To destroy Israel’s economy, Iran doesn’t actually have to lob a nuclear weapon into the country. It just has to foment enough instability so the entrepreneurs decide they had better move to Palo Alto, where many of them already have contacts and homes. American Jews used to keep a foothold in Israel in case things got bad here. Now Israelis keep a foothold in the U.S. During a decade of grim foreboding, Israel has become an astonishing success story, but also a highly mobile one. NYTimes

Zahra J. Saleh is a freelance writer based in U.A.E. Currently, she has two books in to her credit. “How to make your man Happy” , now available in University Book Store, Al Jabry Book Store Burjuman, all jashanmal in UAE, All Prints in Abu Dhabi Zahra Jama Saleh, has been working as an Executive Secretary for many years in UAE and during these years, she also wrote many articles on the local papers, such as Gulf News and Gulf Today before she released her first book in the year 2004.” Wellbeing is what is Inner Beauty” has become another successful article wrote by her. Zahra released her first book “HOW TO MAKE YOUR MAN HAPPY” when this topic was like “keep your lips sealed and don`t even a say a word about it” in some parts of the world. This book was widely accepted and became “the talk of the town” since then!. It is a self-help book about interviews made with 120 ladies of 67 nationalities, each one answered “what makes man happy and what are best methods to do so”? Is it the old fashion ways, aggressive ways, civilized methods or new techniques used by modern women “What makes the man happy? Most women said as below:- 1. Cook good food: Most women, particularly older women with successful relationships, said “the way to a man`s heart remains through his stomach. Good, home-cooked food, presented hot and on time, would make a man happy any day they insisted”. 2. Keep a beautiful home Women in relationships said “an elegant, quiet home made their men feel happy and wanted. Clear clutter, minimize noise, have pretty knick-knacks, make sure the room smells fresh, they advised” 3. Don `t ask questions Never nag your man or question him about things he does, within or outside the home, said many women, both in and out of relationships. Give him space; let him decide for himself and you at all times they suggested. 4. Aggressive Approaches: Awatif: A 19-old-year-old single Egyptian student. To approach the guy I have in mind, I dress smartly to astonish him and walk close to him as often as I can. I also give him a diplomatic smile. The type of men who really make me take a second look, I mean “wow”, are those who are tall, with bronze skin, light coloured eyes, a muscular body, and who are gentlemen. I search for a man who would admire me for who I am. He should have patience to get to know me well. Money comes last my list. This book “How to Make Your Man Happy” is the brainchild of Zahra J. Saleh, a freelance writer with a number of articles and author of a well acclaimed book first published in September 2004. Pick up your copy here: http://www.afro-arabbooks.com/index.html

Adeer I was mistaken as to you. After all this time on SOL and my posts to be called a troll. And a dodger. And a beginner. To begin with I did not claim that both sides have reached political maturity for the type of political merger I proposed neither did I claim there is wide spread interest for it. But for the record, I have NOT said that there is not political maturity to undertake such a proposed merger. I said the level of the two communities’ maturity and interest remains to be seen, implying once the initiative is on the table we will see the level of their interest. They have not reached political maturity or it still remains to be seen? This is confusing. I did not propose the status quo. This is what I proposed repeatedly: What needs to happen in Galkacyo is that trust through cooperation must be built up over time. At that time a political unity of the city can be worked out. To solve the problem of Galkacyo address Galkacyo not regions. I haven't found myself in the wrong thread. I simply asked some questions. Questions which you clearly did not like and have only belatedly responded to after much prodding. Hence the unflattering references and the attempt at running me out of a thread. I will continue to post my opinions for the gallery but I will stop addressing you.

Pardon me adeer - it seems you have finally started to answer my well-thought objections that you were unable to see before. That is progress indeed. For someone making the assertive case you seemed to ask a lot of your critics. I'm glad you have acknowleged that there is no political maturity to undertake this merger nor is there any widespread interest. That is an acknowlegdement of reality. Yet you still think a merger of 2 regions is the right solution to the problems of 1 city? Adeer I think you have to admit you're proposing the wrong medicine to the illness here. What needs to happen in Galkacyo is that trust through cooperation must be built up over time. At that time a political unity of the city can be worked out. To solve the problem of Galkacyo address Galkacyo not regions.

Adeer when I did talk to you like a grown man - you said your objections were based on clannish reasons when I have given repeatedly well thought objections which you refused to address. You will have to excuse me if such a response from you resulted in my speculation on your character although in your defense I did mention another possible rationale. Your questions I will respond to with questions: Is there any indications of the maturity and interest in a merger? I means how did you arrive at they're ready to merge? How do you know there is any interest in it? For me the two parties can't even sort out Galkacyo and resort to accusations against each other just like in the case of the 5 Pakistanis killed earlier this year. That tells me they're not ready for a merger. They're not even ready to tackle the issues that divide them in their own city. I didn't say Galmudug is not interested in federalism. It just isn't much of a state. Apart from a few parts the region it claims it doesn't control. Can you even name the head of Galmudug? I can't - I doubt many in this forum can. There are some basics that you need if you are talking about a state and a merger. The very minimum requirements for a political merger are grassroots support and an agreement on rights and responsibilities. Puntland's identity is a federal Somali state. What identity are you refering to exactly? It's amazing you make these nods and winks and then accuse others of childishness. Saaxib - it's time for you to answer the hard questions about the proposal you made. I pointed out the holes in it. And here you keep asking me the same things over and over again. Please make an assertive case in responsive to these questions: Are the two regions indeed of the same political thinking before a merger is done? What indicates there is an interest in forming a union in both Puntland and Galmudug? Is Galmudug looking to itself to solve its problems and has it the apparatus and popular support of a state thus meeting the requirements for a 'merger'? Additionally - What requirements are there for 2 regions to join? Do you have any minimums?

^It was a throwaway comment - you did drool on the guy and swept the girl aside. ElPunto = ThePoint. Eesh - gabdhaha qardhood so caqli miraan sow may ahaan jireen?

'Forget about the girl (aad moodo iney istakiin kusoo qadeysay' - take my comment with a pinch of salt eedo.

^Just like a women - hating on her own kind

Oh my goodness. I have given three reasons why this might not be workable. When I asked you to show me how those objections were unwarranted you respond 'I don't have to prove anything'. And you're the ONE making the proposal in the first place. Specifically - what questions have I dodged? Give me chapter and verse. I won't be fobbed off with statements that are simply untrue. That you attribute objections to 'silly clannish perceptions' is a conclusion that speaks either to you and your character. Or it could be that you have little other response for valid objections and holes in your argument. I sincerely hope it is the latter.