^Maybe a bit too American centred but let's face it they have, by a wide margin, the best schools of any country on the planet. Any such list would be heavily American.

^Perhaps I am. But I hardly think it is the be all and end all of evil to a child. Each of know tens if not hundreds of women who have this gruesome procedure done but have managed to get on with their lives and move forward. Personally I think something along the lines of the female abortion and infanticide done in India, for example, is much more evil. But then gradations of evil are more semantic than anything else. There is no fundamental disagreement.

Originally posted by Valenteenah: So coming back to whether parents have a green light to abuse their children or not, I reckon they don't. In answer to another stolid question, " What constitutes a punishible crime with regard to acts performed on children who are unable to 'consent'", I would probably say, anything which harms the child and/or is against the law in the country the child resides in . Hardly mind-boggling, is it? It is not mind-boggling nor is it as simplistic as you have it. What is harm? - harm is defined differently in different societies according to their values. Regular circumcision harms the male child - it is unnecessary in the strictest sense. So does ear piercing for girls. They are hardly in the same category as FGM but the point stands nevertheless. Bottomline - what constitutes harming of the child depends and is never black and white. That was my point from the very beginning.

Originally posted by Hizb_UK: ^^loool, and since when did a child consent to anything ( in particular a Somali a consenting 10 year-old ku lahaa, u should join that new Dutch poedo party that argue children can consent to sex ( don't take tat as a offence ). The fight against FGM should led from the Masjid and i want to see it as number 1 item on muxaadirooyinka. Don't just let the gaal fight against wat is wholly unislamic. But you're missing the point: Can children ever really consent? What constitutes a punishible crime with regard to acts performed on children who are unable to 'consent'? Do we give the state the right to determine that parents have acted in a cruel capacity with regard to consent for children or does that appropriately belong to the parents? The point I was making is that separate from the act itself there are underlying complexities.

^I detest arguments like 'if you don't like it, move' - that is the talk of bigots. Otherwise you made some very valid points.

^What a bunch of fags - they should find those militia 'men' and feed them to the lions :mad:

Originally posted by Valenteenah: quote:Originally posted by ThePoint: But then what happens if the girl is a willing participant in the whole thing - should he still be locked up? Should it still be the Swedish gov'ts preogative to interfere? I don't know. I don't think the question of what to do after FGM has been done is so black and white as the issue itself. Again with the 'interference', how can convicting someone of a crime they did be interference on the part of the govt? The legislation already exists, it's illegal to carry out FGM on underage girls, why shouldn't he be prosecuted? It's not like spilt milk. If they did it to this daughter they will do it to the next one. As for the girl being a willing participant, we all know the huge amount of influence parents have over their children. Kids believe what the parents tell them to believe. But just because a child can be convinced that what's happening to them is a good thing, however horrible it might feel, does that make it right or acceptable? Does it give the parents the right to physically harm their children? If a child doesn't mind getting their hands burned when they do something naughty, should the parents burn him/her? You guys speak like having your genitals slashed up and sewn up together again is a benign, loving gesture on the parents part. What total bullshidh. Pleading 'ignorance' is a weak drum to beat. People can and should be able to tell right from wrong. I don't know - it seems to me you're being overly simplistic. We all agree FGM is horrible but the question is what to do afterward and whether the Swedish govt's stance is consistent and proper. It is interference if the girl has chosen to undergo this procedure and is 10 years of age at least. The government has not chosen to interfere in homosexual liasons between 2 consenting individuals. The question is less about the laws on the books than about the internal consistency of 'liberal' Sweden's laws. In a 'liberal' country like Sweden what is 'right' or 'acceptable' doesn't come into play if both parties are willing and desirous. In theory - there should be no law specifically against FGM in Sweden - only apply that against child abuse and mutilation(without consent because of course consensual mutilation is perfectly alright).

Originally posted by Valenteenah: quote:Whatever happened to the 'ideal' civil liberties Scandinavian nations used to espouse. Two men can marry, but it is government's no business. Two married couple can swing as many as they want, yet not government's business. A little girl ayaa la guday, but this time dowlad shaqadeyda waaye inay soo faragishato. Gudniin dhaqan laga tagay waaye, that no sane individual can condone, laakiin if the dowlada Iswiidhan keeps a blind eye on homesexuality, prostitution and other vile vices -- noo, they welcome and condone them by recognizing their marriages and acts for buying sex -- laakiinse it makes her business what should legally be a family's business, not government's. MMA, the vices you mention are often between two consenting adults, unlike the mutilation of a child by her own family. The victims of FGM are young girls and the family is always the culprit, so why in the world should it remain their business? Cultural relativity has been used to turn a blind eye to FGM for far too long. There is a similar Law in the UK, however it hardly gets used, mainly due to lack of reporting. I'm glad Sweden is taking it so seriously. The important thing is to protect children and parents who insist on inflicting FGM on their daughters need to be put behind bars for a very long time. They really don't deserve their kids. But then what happens if the girl is a willing participant in the whole thing - should he still be locked up? Should it still be the Swedish gov'ts preogative to interfere? I don't know. I don't think the question of what to do after FGM has been done is so black and white as the issue itself.

^Prolly a very good idea

^I think I get - it was totally tongue-in-cheek on Sophist's part.

^I don't know about lesson - everyone has to make the choice for themselves based on belief and knowledge. However, I was intrigued by some of the comments in the article: -"The danger rests with the presence of some individuals who are trying to impose the Iranian model on the region, a model whose most prominent opponents are not just the United States and other countries in the region, but even Iranian intellectuals and writers," said Almohayed. -"She must have gone crazy," opined Yusef Chahine, Egypt's most famous film director, who gave the real-life ballerina a shot at stardom by casting her in his film Al-Mohager in 1994. -These preachers are "supported by Gulf states magnates who control satellite channels and production companies and want to 'veil' Egyptian cinema and marginalize the non-veiled actresses," said Tayeb. -"In Iran, directors and actors are looking to break the religious shackles, while she wants to enclose Egyptian cinema," said Qamhawi. So to sum - by donning the veil which is a part and parcel of this religion - this actresss is 'imposing', single-handedly, on the rest of Egyptian society, she is apparently 'mad' because how could any 'sane' person do that. Or she's been 'taken' over by Gulf Arabs and she wants to 'enclose', again single-handedly, Egyptian cinema. So much for liberality and letting people live their lives independantly. I hate these ****** hypocrites.

^What am I missing? I saw a Somali woman refugee's photo but nothing about a Somali woman attending the school. :confused:

Can no moderator just please shut this BS thread down?! :rolleyes:

^20k - 30k pounds is 40k - 60k Cdn. For sure I would've applied. And dealing with khat and khat chewers - you gotta expect some khat freebies! How could you pass that up?!

^Americans - whadaya expect! They're looking for community worker for ANTI -Khat work - they just weren't smart enough to get the syntax right.

http://www.somalivoice.org/jobs.html Job Details - London Job Title: Khat Worker – Somali Community Reference: 306-H03/MH Employing Agency: Barnet, Enfield and Haringey Mental Health NHS Trust - DASH (Drug Advisory Service Haringey) Job Type: 1 Year pilot project Job Hours Flexible – can be offered as full or part-time to suit Location Based at DASH offices ( Stroud Green Road site) and other community satellites around the borough to be determinedDescription Khat Worker – Somali Community Grade: NHS Band 6 Salary: £20,458 - £30,247 p.a. plus HCAS £3,069 - £3,850. This post is initially funded for one year. The successful candidate will need to be Somali and English speaking, and a dynamic self-starter who can drive this development work forward in this short space of time, using a variety of mechanisms and resources.Having had experience of working with the Somali community you will undertake outreach work, manage community events and work with the community to understand the social, economic, physical and mental health issues surrounding the effects of khat use. Closing date 16th June 2006 Interviews 5th July 2006

^I truly do sympathise with his family - but I'm also left wondering at the ********* and recklessness of some ppl

Originally posted by Nomadic_Princess: Found this while I should have been studying. Thought it was somewhat entertaining. Enjoy LOL - Somali as a second language singing!

^I'm not sure what it is(apart from a huge propaganda campaign; I can't tell you how many times I've heard 'Canada's 9/11') - but these 2 guys were in jail already - they claim they're connected to one of the other suspects because he rented a car for them. Seems rather flimsy to charge them with terrorism related charges. As to us possibly being in their same shoes - I think it is unlikely. These guys were caught smuggling weapons into the country and after everything that has happened back home - what a bunch of losers.

^I'm not sure why these relatives speak to the media. It seems to fan the flames of what is so far unfounded allegations and a media feeding frenzy

^I can tell this thread will soon get out of hand

^Relax - take a breath. Isn't time for some harmony among Somalis?! :eek:

Originally posted by Viking: quote: "Almost 30 percent of Syrian men are taking part in Friday prayers in the 9,000 mosques of Syria," said Islamist MP Mohammed Habash who heads the Islamic Studies Centre in Damascus. This is quite low for a Muslim country. It's more difficult living in a non-Muslim country as Friday is a working day. It sure is - what a sad state.

^^Oh quiet old man! Sometimes I wonder whether ppl realize the positive aspects of their present situation rather than assuming everyone else has it better than you.

Originally posted by Zafir: quote: It is not at all difficult to understand why people want out of Somalia, with its brutal clan warfare, its life-sapping drought and its dire poverty. In recent weeks, a surge in fighting between Islamists and Somali warlords has left hundreds dead and many more injured in Mogadishu, Somalia's crowded capital, spurring an even greater exodus. But getting out by sea to Yemen, an illegal gateway to jobs in the Middle East, carries risks that rival those on shore. How is it that fighting in Mogadishu effects 17year old living in boosaso?? Or is it one of those sharci raadis stories, am tumaal and all and so forth. I am in no position to judge, but after calculating all the necessary measurements of my trips and the possibilities of me getting raped, thrown to sharks, getting beaten and whatever have you out weighs the possibility of making it to Yemen safe and sound. I would most definitely take the route of safety. ^You have it totally right