^LOL - now that's an ironic yet sad piece of information.

Originally posted by xiinfaniin: quote:Originally posted by ThePoint: ^Adeer, waadado(sp) who continously seek power and territory? - let's just say I have suspicions about them. It seems to me - at some point if they keep going like this - it will end in bloodshed when they inevitably face resistance. And then what is to be your argument? You have every right to have suspicions about them. Their success today doesn’t, in any way, guarantee future successes either. All I was saying was the fact that Kismayo has fallen in the wadaado’s column the way it did was a military success. I also believe it could be translated into a political one as well. But lets see if your gloomy predictions hold. I too have my own predictions--all-be-it positive ones. Yes - definitely agree with you about the fact that it is indeed a military and political success. No doubt about it. It is not a success in terms of their stated agenda - that of Islamniimo and Islax. That is incompatible with takeover after takeover of territory Adeer. To me that is the litmus test - Are these guys really about Islamniimo and Islax or the usual Somali hunger for territory and power? For the past few months - apart from the good things they've done in the capital - it really has been about the expansion of territory and power. And if this continues(and as yet there is little sign that it has ended) - it will only lead to bloodshed and the complete debunking of the ICU in my eyes and most reasonable people's eyes. We shall see - at this point - the ball is totally in the ICU's court. The TFG is a non-entity.

Originally posted by Paragon: ^^ThePoint, who said the blood of those who stand in opposition to what is good is sacred? If it means shedding blood to achieve what is best for the nation then so be it. I don't see the logic of frowning upon the wadaad's involvement in social and political matters. It is as if the term 'wadaad' was at first put in place to confine the 'wadaad' to as little as nill involvement in social affairs. That logic is no longer functional. The UIC forces must increase both power and territory for the good of all Somalis, ThePoint. Good Lord! Now people can't stand in opposition or their blood will be shed? And who are you to determine what is 'good' and what is not? And according to you - 'so be it' with the bloodshed. That is rather easy for you to say. This is remarkable. Is it Islamic to shed another Muslim's blood simply because you claim it brings 'goodness'? Or is it the Islamic way to demonstrate your goodness in yourself and in your community and then entreat others to follow? I'm sure you know what is right and what is wrong. But what possible reason would cause this post from you - it would seem the old age reason with Somalis. And I am SURE you know what that is.

^Adeer, waadado(sp) who continously seek power and territory? - let's just say I have suspicions about them. It seems to me - at some point if they keep going like this - it will end in bloodshed when they inevitably face resistance. And then what is to be your argument?

^What a wierd fellow you are! Would you have the same non-chalant attitude to burning the Somaliland flag?

^Strange that you would call the act of expanding territory and power without consolidating what you already have success. To me - it seems other descriptions are more apt. :rolleyes:

If this woman is bright - she will also post another blog asking money for the abortion so that her future child is saved from such 'ills' as growing up without a father, poverty, lack of good education etc.

^Your kind doesn't like true, blue blacks dear - you would've hardly been welcome

^You see conspiracy in everything Stoic? Light against dark kulaha? I was embarrassed for them - why couldn't black folks come in first for a change? At least the white folks came in second last! It seems to me Black tribe is handicapped from the start - 3 unatheltically large ladies ain't the winning combo for Survivor. How's that for a better consipiracy theory?

Originally posted by Mr. Red Sea: The Point, I agree, but if you try to sweep and clean the dirt sitting in front of your hut,it will accidently spill over to the neighboring home, so yeah it's very small place, so it has to be cleaned at once. That is one crappy analogy Mr. Red Sea. With thinking like that - I guess you approve of Bush sweeping in 'democracy' in Iraq. Somalis don't trust other Somalis. Let each group clean up its own region and then present their acheivements.

Unfortunately the ever friendly and socially responsible media are playing it up: -------------------------------------------- Fury over Pope's remarks raises concerns ISTANBUL, Turkey - Pakistan's legislature unanimously condemned Pope Benedict XVI. Lebanon's top Shiite cleric demanded an apology. And in Turkey, the ruling party likened the pontiff to Hitler and Mussolini and accused him of reviving the mentality of the Crusades. Across the Islamic world Friday, Benedict's remarks on Islam and jihad in a speech in Germany unleashed a torrent of rage that many fear could burst into violent protests like those that followed publication of caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060915/ap_on_re_mi_ea/pope_muslims;_ylt=AtUENFDxiyyfZVzaduhSSx6s0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3b2NibDltBHNlYwM3MTY-

TFG this, ICU that. I just wish every building block of Somali society could focus on their own immediate community before embarking on anything else. Start with yourself, your family, your village, your city, your region. Once that has begun in earnest can further discussions of a broader coming together be embarked upon.

^Too much info. It's interesting that all the trees are trees of the temperate regions of Europe, NA etc. Where the mangos, coconuts and passion fruit trees?? :rolleyes:

Even wonder about the smartest race eh? NO, but I've certainly wondered about the retards who concoct bullcrap purporting to show the 'smartest' race.

^What's this I hear about his Nation of Islam ties? I really dislike those cultists.

^Your all together very unislamic, unwomanly forwardness

^Chill out - they're just having fun. That is part of a Black film festival no! :cool:

Originally posted by Pierre-Faarax: quote:Originally posted by Tyjwania: ^ I'm thinking about lunch, wondering what I can get for 5 bucks. Try that,its like 4.69$ only uff! - no wonder Americans are so overweight - the same meal or should I say meals would run you $8.00 or more in Canada

Originally posted by Socod_badne: quote:Originally posted by ThePoint: ^Source - http://www.religioustolerance.org/isl_numb.htm - You will also notice that the numbers you are arguing about are at the very low end of the estimates - which casts serious doubt on any firm reliance on them. You're missing the point , The Point. The 1990-2001 ARIS survey is the most reliable and comprehensive survey we got. And the point was never about how muslims are in the States but whether or not Islam was fastest growing. For that we need the rates of growth of other religions for comparison. THis is why the ARIS survey is so handy in this debate, it has stats for almost every major religion. I don't believe so Percentage increases are of little consequence since a tiny cult religion can double or triple with the addition of a few converts. So the best measure for any 'real' religion is number of adherents added. Can we really arrive at reliable numbers for adherents added if the current number of adherents is so widely disputed? I think not. As to the comprehensiveness of the survey - it may very well be - that needs to be investigated further. But the comprehensiveness of a study has little bearing on its accuracy or correctness. How's that for point?

^Source - http://www.religioustolerance.org/isl_numb.htm - You will also notice that the numbers you are arguing about are at the very low end of the estimates - which casts serious doubt on any firm reliance on them.

^I think you need to take it easy there SB - there is a lot of murkiness in the numbers. -------------------------------- Date Number of Muslims Note Source Ref. 2001- 1.1 million adults; 1.8 million adults and children A ARIS study 2 2000 1.6 million B Glenmary Research Center 1 2001-OCT 1.9 million C National Opinion Research Center 6 2001-APR 2 million Muslims D Hartford Institute for Religious Research 3 2001 2.8 million E American Jewish Committee 4 2001 4.1 million F Britannica book of the Year 6 2001 A little over 5 million G Abdul Malik Mujahid 9 2001 5.78 million H World Almanac 7 1995 6 million I CAIR 6 1997 6.7 million J Ilyas Ba-Yunus 8 2001-APR 6 to 7 million K Prof. Ihsan Bagby 6 2001 7.0 L Four Islamic groups 4 2002 7.0 M CAIR 5 1998 12 million N Pakistani newspaper

Originally posted by Paragon: ^^ Sxb, sorry to have given you the impression that I took it personal. I was speaking as I did because, with the new social research coming up about 'multiculturalism, it seems issues are going to get difficult for Muslims. It is so bad to be blasted on tabloid as being some sort of terrorists or digital ghetto dwellers but these things that are day in day out makes one wonder where things are going. With the talk of 'controlling', if that is the word to use, what Muslims watch has something more sinister behind it. So sxb, iga raalli noqo if I came across accusing. There's no doubt this is a difficult time for Muslims and others who look 'Islamic' but that doesn't mean that UK is not one of the best places for any immigrant.

Originally posted by Paragon: ThePoint, I think yours is oversimplication and over-reliance on assumption. It is not racists, immigrants or other disgrantled individuals who find faults in multiculturalism; it is the very people that advocated for it. Just google Sir Tevor's attack on multiculturalism or even kenan Malik's 'the problem with multiculturalism'. FYI, Sir Trevor is the head of the Commision for Racial Equality. Majority of the people may support multculturalism but as things are, and I am assuming you are not in the UK now, multiculturalism is under a strain. PS: UK 'was' considered decent but not anymore. If anything, everyday, more and more articles suggesting that the problem with 'extremism' lies with multiculturalism. These include academics and social commentators all alluding to the creation of mono-culturalism and iron-out foreign digital ghettos in the UK. Even when things were going well ppl were questioning it - I'm not surprised. But that doesn't mean multiculturalism is a failure or needs to be discarded. UK 'was' considered decent? Saxiib what has happened in the last few weeks that have caused this radical downgrade?

Originally posted by Paragon: quote:ThePoint: And the UK is decent too. ThePoint, really? Is that what you think? Well, I guess you haven't been reading the tabloids in the UK. Multiculturalism is really coming across as failure in the area of London I reside. [Read]Near Forest Gate. Who thinks it's a failure? The average person or racist and prejudiced people? I find it fascinating the reaction that happens when a couple of immigrants commit some crimes - everyone starts questioning immigration, multiculturalism, assimilation etc. Why do people have these distorted expectations and only from immigrants?As if immigrants are supposed to be perfect people. For me - successful multiculturalism happens when the host society accepts the culture of the newcomers and allows for a space for them in their new homes. That is the case for the majority of immigrants in the UK as far as I know. Businessmen, politicians, actors etc of all hues and origins are a normal part of British public life. That in the main is successful multiculturalism. Granted there are problems, strains and difficulties but one needn't throw out the baby with the bathwater.

^^ LOL Northerner