guys this is the pain We are facing death in Iraq for no reason A serving US soldier calls for the end of an occupation based on lies For the past six months, I have been participating in what I believe to be the great modern lie: Operation Iraqi Freedom. After the horrific events of September 11 2001, and throughout the battle in Afghanistan, the groundwork was being laid for the invasion of Iraq. "Shock and awe" were the words used to describe the display of power that the world was going to view upon the start of Operation Iraqi Freedom. It was to be an up-close, dramatic display of military strength and advanced technology from within the arsenals of the American and British military. to read more click here http://politics.guardian.co.uk/iraq/comment/0,12956,1045361,00.html Bush's envoy is humiliated! Blair gets the cold shoulder at Berlin summit Tony Blair's efforts to seek agreement with France and Germany over Iraq suffered an embarrassing setback yesterday when French President Jacques Chirac bluntly insisted that power should be handed back to Iraqis in a 'few months'. to read more please click here http://observer.guardian.co.uk/europe/story/0,11363,1046627,00.html keep the good articals going and thanks every body. best wishes

Northerner thanks for your information, i really like to watch John's new prog on ITV and will pass it to many friends who would enjoy it watching. Jidaawy Originally posted by JIDAAWY: One thing I have noticed is that confused Americans still believe in the nonsense, promoted by the White House and neo-conservatives, that Iraq was behind the 9/11 attacks and was bristling with deadly weapons that could annihilate the US and UK `in 45 minutes and had to be invaded!! I think fear factor is employed here, if you scare people to death then they dont look details and dont use their head. Seems to me that Iraqis, Iranians, Pakistanis, Saudis, Taliban, and al-Qaida, are all too much for many geographically and historically challenged Americans who don’t care weather their government lied to them about the invasion of iraq or not. i think people care of those thinks but they give their government the benefit of dought. when the lie start to appear people will give the government boody nose like what happen in britain last night when the government lost one of the safest seat in the country. Prime Minister Tony Blair has signalled his readiness to listen to voter concerns after the Liberal Democrats seized one of Labour's safest seats in a key north London by-election. read more http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3123378.stm before the war Tony Blair's support from his party and the nation was over the top. now this is what his colloegues are suggesting. But fellow ex-minister Glenda Jackson said she believed Labour could win a third term - if Tony Blair was to quit as prime minister and party leader. read more http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3122496.stm They simply wanted to see some muslims get screwed in retaliation for 9-11. doesn’t matter if they did it or not.. i think islam and muslims are used many times as an escapegoat as communist used to be. but us muslims should not allow that by generalising all british and americans. there are some british polititions, media, intelectuals and common people who worked very hard to stop their country going to war with false pretences. I believe the Brit and Canadian media still belong to the same trash pin the American media lies in… bro i dont know Canadian media but british one i think they evenly split to pro and against the war. best wishes

Yacquub Originally posted by YACQUUB: New nation, by Wadaads i mean people who have Islamic knowledge (Elm) not not as an entity or group. as you may gather by now, indivitual cant solve our problem whatever solution he/she may have. group or team that have similar belief, can work together and provide political solution to our problem can succeed. I am talking about some one who has the quality or near of what Prophet Yusuf (A.S) put himself up for the top post ( he said I am knowledgeable and trustworthy). as i said my earlier post and now again any individual who has those quality is welcome wadaad or non-wadaad. ok let me break down the question for you is Islam the solution of our problem? And if yes how can it be put in practice in our country with all these differences? i hope this clear for all. islam can be our solution if we follow its teaching. we cant have both ways, on one hand break every rule in Allah's book and at the same time reap benefits of being a muslim. as the word islam means total submission to Allah, muslims must obay Allah, follow his prophet's teachings and use their god given brain to solve their problems. in practice there must be group of people who understand islam's principals and foundamentals. these people must conduct their business accouding islam and not slogans. they need to find political solution to our problem. as long as we put tribelsm above islam, islam cant solve our problems. best wishes

yacquub As we are a Muslim nation I thought Islam is the way and how about if we give a chance the Wadaads they might end the hatred, tribalism etc. yes islam is the way but muslims are not all wadaads. they are only one section of the society or should i say one profession. wadaads were part of the problem, many of they either supported their tribe or militant out dated opinion of some islamic schools and went war with their own people. i think the solution is for all somalis to contribute running their country and no one section can restore a somali government. mind you i may support an specific individual wadaads that show experience and knowledge. best wishes

xalimo7 your right oil is the most important reason for iraqi war and the prove is that the only ministry that occopiors -the US & Brits- gave full protection from looting was ministry of oil. As for Britsh, my take on them are, they (the British) are nothing more than Drunken Americans.So they no longer considered to be a Democratic Country, consider them to be the 51st state of the States. as you may know that many british people opposed the war and they took streets of london and other cities, where more than million people domonstated against the war. Now government is underfire, people accused the government of lieing. the government now has a difficult task to talk other issues than iraq war. i think those who took the decision to attack iraq are nervous and will receive their bayback in polling day. best wishes

It seems that the so-called war on terrorism is being used largely as a bogus cover for achieving wider US strategic geopolitical objectives Michael Meacher Full artical click here http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3085656.stm i think this artical answars your query about why most somalis were against iraqi war.

bro/sis nothing new in this letter that hasn't been in the previous similar letters. i remember in 1982/3 when i received similar letter (that was back home in somalia) and how i was worried about what could happen to me and my family. then i copied several of them by hand and told my dad to do the same but dad disagreed and told me nothing could happen to us if we belief in Allah. he tore up the letters and told me to use my brain then my emotion and fear. i guess that is why dad was called sheikh. wasalam

Dear hornafrique Defying Somalia's lawless image, a militia has disarmed 1,202 gunmen in a move that could spur the international community to help the failed state demobilise more of its fighters, a human rights expert said on Wednesday. this is a good news which is rearly heard from our country and should be supported. "It's a positive move by Somalis themselves with no outside help," the expert, Ghanim Alnajar, told reporters, adding the Juba Valley Alliance militia paid for the operation itself. although is small step compared to what is happening in other parts of the country its good step in the right direction. and i also hope it will become permenant project rather than temporary one. i should mention though that next step should be political solution and letting the native kismayoans to take part the governing their city. best wishes

sis maridian I waz wonderin if you people knew that it is stated in the Ethiopian constitution that any region of their nation may secede if they wish, all u need is a referendum with a majority of votes. there is also a clause in the ethio constitution that says the majority in the federal parlimant should aprove sach desire if and when a region decides so. do you realy think that uneven parliment votes for such rather adventure? sister the problem of Western somali is far from being the ocupation of ethios -surely its one of them and not the only one- but there are too many other problems such as proverty, tribelsm, underdevelopment, unresponsible politicians but to name a few. i think even if they receive their independence right now they start to kill each other as they are not capable of governing themselves. have you seen what is happeneng in their regional adminstaration. the people in that region need ceasefire and opening dialoge between their people and solve their problem no one eccept Allah can help them with their problems. and as somalis say labo qaawani is ma qaado . i realy wish for those somalis success and their wished realised. i realy do. best wishes

thank you sis african for this rather informative and refreshing artical that you shared with us here. its always good to see some one who speaks out the truth whatever the cost might be. i must agree with you and other who said in short any muslim pain is ours too . best wishes

Smithnwest 4. Following the Ogaden War of 1997-78 was among the officers attempting a change of the Government of Siyad Barre. bro it was quoted from mr yusuf saying that he was trying to overthrew the civilian govenment before mr barre's regime so many people blame him and sees him as a father of political ills of somalia 6. -Arrested by Dictator Mengistu Haile-Marian of Ethiopia for six years for opposing the Latter¡¯s policy on Somalia and diverging national interests. are you sure bro that is the only interpretation and facts behind Mengistu's arrest of mr yusuf. there is also another interpretation of that situation which is more probable than yours. that is when mr yusuf destroyed what was the only armed opposition to mr barre's regime by assassinating, discrediting and corruption ssdf's officals and fighters, then mengistu decided it was time to stop that monster who has no use to him any more. 12. -Commands a high degree of admiration and influence throughout Somalia and beyond. please add that they also fear from him and his henchmen. 2. He is unmatched, perhaps a unique African leader who is extremely anti-corruption and self-interest. oh please give me a break! if i knew any somali politician with this charactistic i would have been fighting for him to lead the country and get my total loyalty. please ask real planders (i mean those who live under him) what happen to their income and all currupt dealings between mr yusuf and companies that use pland's seas. dont get me wrong bro i support the man but all totally different reasons. best wishes

Ameenah Oh, just out of curiosity - what do think of Punland and Sland forming one state - would that work? that was exactly my message if pland to break away from somalia which is understandable the obvious choice is to united with sland since later one has fully functioning democracy and has shared culture, people, tide economy, borders ect. with each other. it also reduces likelihood of future wars in the region. in the meantime we the south try to come up some sort of workable government and will follow your success. SmithNwestern Bro we want a nw Somalia and not the same failed nonsence, we want our state in our country and our capital and our flag and we need not to break up but when I hear ppl like Abdi (run out of time) Qasin I get mad like I wanna this is the view of most planders and i never come across any plander who is wishing to breakup from somalia. i dont think mr salad and his misfits have any future in any comming nation building cause they excuded from that process with their arrogance and failer to make reality the most ambitious project of the last 13 confereces "the arta project" which i was naively supported for long time. Bari nomad ...But currently the population supports a Federal solution for Somalia. this is what many somali people support and given the choice they will prove worth it. wasalam

dear zakaria My dear vote goes "UK" that is right Uk is the weakest in the industrial nations. on productivity level your righ UK has bad record but do you know the trade off for UK. its unemployment which is very important for the british people not the level of its productivity as UK has the least unemployment in Europe. and dont forget UK is the forth largest economy in the world. that is not however my point. my point is what makes a great nation great? is it hard working? is it their culture or continent they live in or their religion or just their luck? so what do you think is secret of their success? wasalam

i dont see why puntland want to declare independance from somalia if they dissatisfied with other somalis why shouldn't they unite with somaliland because it solves one of the problems of the region which is the question of SS&h that somalilanders and puntlanders are so keen on it. it will be also alternative to war between the two ppl in one region. the advantages also include economic, cultural and peace & security. so no to another new nation in the horn of africa but consolidation of already existing nations i.e. somalia, somaliland, ethiopia, kenya etc.

this is why US is the greatest nation in the world. and somali nation is least productive nation in the world and worst of all. why? Study: Americans also found to put in longer hours than Europeans Monday, September 1, 2003 Posted: 9:04 AM EDT (1304 GMT) GENEVA, Switzerland (AP) -- The U.S. worker is the most productive in the world, boosted by the use of new information and communication technologies, according to a study released Monday by the U.N. labor agency. However, American employees also work longer hours, and three European countries -- Norway, France and Belgium -- beat the Americans in productivity per hour, the International Labor Organization said in its new issue of Key Indicators of the Labor Market. The output per U.S. worker last year was $60,728, the report said. Belgium, the highest-scoring European Union member, had an output of $54,333 per worker. "Part of the difference in output per worker was due to the fact that Americans worked longer hours than their European counterparts," the International Labor Organization said. "U.S. workers put in an average of 1,825 hours in 2002." Japanese worked about the same number of hours as Americans, but in major European economies the average ranged from 1,300 to 1,800 hours, it said. "In terms of output per person employed, the U.S. is on top," said Dorothea Schmidt, an economist on the team that produced the 855-page report. "In terms of output per hour we have three European countries doing better than the U.S. ... and they have done so ever since the mid-'80s." Norway leads in output per hour Norwegians lead the world with an output of $38 per hour worked last year. French workers were in second place, averaging $35 an hour, the report said. Belgians were third at $34, followed by Americans at $32. The high overall U.S. productivity resulted from two factors, the report said. The first is that the U.S. economy provides an environment for widespread use of information and communications technology. The second is that it has had more growth of wholesale and retail trade and financial securities using the technology. Schmidt said there are "many, many reasons" why the three countries outscored the United States. "One might be that during the time that these people work, they work more efficiently," she said. "It might be that the technology they use enables them to be more efficient in this one hour." But Schmidt said the differences were not that great. "It's not that they do twice the work that a U.S. worker does," she said. "It's the small things. If you work 15 hours a day, of course there are hours when you are not as productive as if you only work six hours a day." But working less is not necessarily the key, as shown by most other European Union countries that trail the United States, she said. It also depends on such factors as motivation, skills and training.

its sad day for muslims everywhere and shows that muslim blood is so cheap. allaha u naxariisto all of them and punish the culprits. Amiin

HornAfrique i understand why you so adamant to discuss the past i.e. union act or acts -depends where you stand. bro/sis the basis for that union was very shaky if not flawed. i'm not saying for the sake of it but it was the outcome of a little research i have done sometimes ago and i dont want you to go through the same torturous proccess and come out disappointed as i did. what realy happend in that time of our history was - i mean union process- was emotional union and during that time too many mistakes were made and that haunted us since than. now if we want to do service for our nation than we should leave the issue of union between the two states for the moment and concentrate unity and the peace of all parts of somalia (i.e. the south. thank you for your reply and respect best wishes to you

please allow me to interrupt your heated debate. 2 points only first we somali people have enough problems to solve and dont careless whether the first union with sland was legal or not because its irrelevent in our present situation (if we cant unite 2 cities in the south how you honestly ask people who have worst memoris of failed union to repeat the same mistakes that we both sland and somalia made four decades ago). i can only apologise to our brothers in the north, and our neighbour slan all the hurt caused by mindless power hungery class who caused that unnecessary pain. secondly its imposible to talk islam and at the same time use as a weapon to win your lost wars. khilafa is misunderstood concept and it's misused as well. there is no one ready made kind of governing in islam. the khilafa that is in the quran promised and incouraged is muslims to lead this world as early muslims did. and the unity that is mentioned in the quran is to unite for the worship of Allah (subhanaho wa ta'aalaa). whichever way muslims organse to govern them selves is ok according to the teaching of islam. muslims can unite under commonweath system or EU type of union or any other union as long as its people aprove it. so please if you do not have enough knowledge of islam try to acquire it more of its knowladge and dont pretend you know everything cause you may hurt the very cause you trying to support. please dont hate each other we have enough hatred in the part of the world we all come from. again forgive if i distrupt to you. best wishes bro/sis

bro samuri although we differ which cause was primary and which one was secondary, i absolutely agree with you there is no point of discussing indivituals while the future of our beloved country hung in the balance. we differ many opinions but one thing is certain post arta somali government that is inclusive, effective, able one is needed. best luck and cheers too bro

bro samurai i appreciate your way of discussion and using evidence but i must say most of the evidence you used is circumstantial and cant stand a chance in court of law. most of your tantalising evidence could be used in diffirent context. take for instance the incident between president Egal (may Allah give rahma) and the tribel leaders. i dont think those tribal leaders have any connection whatsoever to tng and or mr salad himself. i beleif they had legitimate concerns about the foreign policies of government of sland such as boder closure by djabuti government, other concern for them was lifestock ban by the arab states etc. aren't these citizens had right to presure their choosen government bro samurai? even the problems in bay region was caused by dictatarialship of my shatigaduud who refused to call elections in RRA's leadership. he wanted to remain in RRA's leadership and also to became new president of SW region without event allowing his opponants to contest an election. his rivals had legitimate issue, hadn't they bro? take another example, puntland case when mr yusuf's term ended and the region went into constitutional crisis. mr yusuf used fear of tng to drum up support and reclaim the throne. aren't opponents of mr yusuf had right to challenging him bro samurai? i'm not disbuting your evidence but there where more causes than one single one (the tng connection). what i'm saying is tng and mr qasim's is used to explain more complicated issues. if my salad and his useless colleagues were capable of causing such huge problems, wars and unrest in almost every region why should or would create a piece of land in mogadishu even unoccupied parts of the city such as hamarwayne, hamar-jabjab, shangainy etc -these places are called no mansland. i think if they spent a fraction of the efforts that was needed to cause the mayham and havoc you reported they did they would establish mini state in some parts of mogadishu. the truth of the matter is the tng and mr a/qasim could talk and shout and claim everything but they cant even move one direction in one piece, they were and are fractured, have wrong mix of abilities, cant trust between them and they have bloody corrupted minds. could those dead minds possibly to what you supposing they did bro samuri? and about mr salads conditions to participate the current conference in kenya i belief its typical of the man and his useless companions to derail the conference. bro sumuri wouldn't you agree that what happen in somali for the last few years had more than one cause? enjoy your day bro.

Samurai Warrior Nonetheless, New-Nation, my brother, you seem, unless intentional on your part, to be minusculising the calamity and the tumultuous disenfranchising that these towrags not only had left behind, but are still wreaking havoc in the land. How does one explain that mate? I must agree with you some of your thoughs such as corruption and bribing some tribel leaders and old friends in here and there. i also think he and his TNG indirectly caused some fighting like when mr salad sent some of his comrades to bay rigion. the fighting in kismayu which mr salad addmited was lie because he cant posibly organise, maintain, lead fund such a large army, but i belief his is claming credit what his tribe did in kismayu. we know mr salads tribe jointly control the city and secrifice everything even before arti started so bro samuri the power politics in somali. i honestly understand your connection between tng and problems in somalia for the last 3 years but i have to disagree with you the main charge of tng causing mayham more than what the warlords did to our beloved country and its beuitiful people. do you bro samurie honestly beleif that ali khalif, hassan abshir, jama kaluun, deerow and the other can cause such a large and sophisticated network of wars? are these people confined in there hotel rooms and "golaha sacabka" ee mogadishu. even abdikasim spent most of his time in his villa watching aljazeera and reading some arabic newspapers. what president abdikasim is capable of is long luctures with little substance as he used to do in old days of mr barre's ragime. I dont realy know if he can acheive all what bro samurai mentioned in his piece?

Bari-nomad All the TNG did was re-ignite civil war in Somalia and create more warlords. I hope the conference in Kenya will not do the same because in the end it is the people who will suffer. i dont think abdikasim and his TNG can even organse 10 people let alone create warlords, they just want to take credit of what they are not capable of. they lack courage, determination and skills of organising people. i hope this conference produces some success and some leadership we cant give chance like we did when arta confirence elected new president and parliment.

flying still the question of tribe loyalty i think most somalis want a government and good leadership one offers better life and the generalisation is bad as you cant say because there are some criminals that all somalis are criminals. they need to see something that is better than what they are in. the prove is somalis were tribes and had tribal loyalty even in early days of colonial power when they saw syl they united behand them. tribal accusations are excuses for failed generations. i believe if leaderships like our early ones -abdulahi isse (may allah give his rahma), Adan Ade, Abdirishid Sharmake (may allah give his rahma), Abdirisak, Egal and so forth, we might have a chance of success. so tribal loyalty is there but is there any who can rise above tribal politics and claim our leadership?

HornAfr Althogh i'm new to this forum i was long standing observer just reading and now i decided to participate the debates, is that a problem? or you dont feel safe to see new ideas in this forum. flying-still your analogy is some how difficult to accept as teaching and leading are different concepts. Teacher's functions include leading but their main function is to create perfect situation for students to increase their knowledge. if all or most of the students fail in their assessments then teacher is not blameless because all the students cant be ****** and they cant have same ability. its either something wrong with the teacher or the subject. in leadership situation however the main function of the leader is to lead or show the way forward, is like driving a car if you cant drive there is no point of blaming the car. if mr salad is a leader he would choose good team able, knowlegeabe team then plan and excute. but if he sits -as he did- his villa and expect that mogadishu and other parts of somali will lead it self then he fails as he did. if the president was honest then he should allow others to try they might have a chance to succeed. but to blame our tired, hungery, sick, eldery, widows, unemployed etc. it self is failure and wrong. these people are the same people who supported mr salad and welcomed him in the first day when he arrived in mogadishu, even warlords couldn't stop them, what happen to the warlards who said the president cant come to mogadisho? these were heroes. did you know how many people travelled for other conners of somalia to defend him and his government. what about former members of somali army, the police, civil servents and so on who came all the way from refugee comps in kenya and ethiopia. i still remember a former policeman who attended one of the gathering to support the new government when they arrived in mogodisho saying i'm now a businessman but want to be a police work with the new govenment to restore security and order in the capital without asking pay for his service. what did abdiqasim give to somali nation, higher inflation, more lies, corruption, blame and so on. what more chance should they give? build him a castle and ask him to stay there as long as he likes? my brother/sisters i'm not just sitting here and just critizising mr salad but i was strong supporter of TNG and mr Salad. i was also activist who took part activites that was helpful to the TNG such as organising conferences for TNG ministers to propagate their success and even organise protests outside Ethiopean ambasses. some how he dispointed me greatly. if any leader emerges from any parts of somalia or outside the country then i'll give a chance and work with him/her. other good somalis will also support that leader and will give a chance if they start improving the lives of ordinery somalis even in small way but if they fail then they will lose any initial support. so tell me flying-still what more chance should we give to this president or any other president that we didn't give already to mr salad and his government?

flying-stil if someone claims to be a president he must take full responsibility of peoples concerns. he cant just blame others for his failer. now mr salad promised securiy, jobs etc but he failed on all accounts. i think 3 years enough for him to show us what he can and cant. so its time to test someone else, isn't it.