Moti if the issue is islam and how muslims should live and conduct their affairs then we need to approach the whole issue of ONLF and Somaliland in the accourdance of the islamic sharia. first of all if muslims sign peace deal with non muslims they must maintain their part of the agreement unless non-muslims break the deal. Sulxu xudeebiya muslims signed what was thought to be cheating or trick from the kafirs but it turn out to be the most successfull peace agreement that muslims ever commit themselves. And if you study closely you will see that muslims who escape from kufars where ordered to go back and never the muslims break that peace untill kufars broke it. so you have it bro. secondly Moti you raise one of most important issues that facing somalia today and definetly will have dire consequence to the people in OG region which is the issue of future borders of the new somali. for long time the issue of the border between somalia and Etheopia hounted the old somalia. no one on this earth knew the number of somali people in actual somalia so we never been a nation state and that was troubling me most and many others. things are changing lately though, i don't know whether you are aware or not, that those who are meeting in Kinya agreed or nearly agreed one version of somali constitution that confirms for the first time -from somali point of view- the border between somalia and Etheopia. And if they get their way then ONLF or normal people from OG/somali region in Ethio will need a visa. , but no history of somalia says ****** people have involved in any massacres .. and omar Jess did take his soldiers from Somali government when he was asked to kill his own Somali fellows and defected from the Somali government, don’t tell me you don’t know that for a fact…. Moti if you don't know what kids from that region done in baydhabo then ask the natives and i think you need more research before you talk confidently what happen that dark time of our history. Observer the sole authority in the Somaliland regions are somaliland gov or reyals gov so we take their word but what the reality of their arrest was only Allah know. i accept that instead of mr Reyale and his gov respect the somali culture and do some niceties and undermine the public safety they can take those suspects out whatever the consequence might be. ONLF should be grateful to reyals gov at least they will be dealt with respect and in due process. if those same people where in the south they will be killed instantly or sold to Ethos without anyon's knowledge. Horn The irony or ironies, would you excuse me, Sooyaal, if I have a hearty laugh. Your post actually turned out more of a compliment than anything else what you fail to understand is and you can't read behind the lines is that nowadays the word somali nationalist or somaliweyn is associated with naivity, stup1dity, hipocrycy and dark history. so make your choice.

i enjoy many peoms as long as they promote peace, instablity, justice and social cohision. one of the ills that our people suffer and also devestated our beautiful country is tribal wars that burning since old days. peoms like guba is what is keeping those wars burning. please don't trivialise them just let them stay behind academic walls so they could be studied but not used.

i dont know if you're aware or not these poems are the source of somali fighting and never offer any way out of our problems not the old days and certainly not now. Cartaneey Cammuud layska qaad, ceelki Reer Magane Hadday curaddadii noolyihiin, waad cabbi lahayde Nimankii ku caawiyi jiraan, cidi ka noolayne Cabdullaahi iyo Yuusuf baa, ciidda hoos maraye Beddel baa cashiiro u xigoo, waa cuq dabadeede Raggii calanku saarnaan jiriyo, Caliba loo diidye Niman baaba Caarshe u noqdiyo, Caamir oo kala’e Markuu Haybe sidii coomir degey, looga soo cararye Ma la cawryi Reer Yuusuf waa, cirir ********e, Miduu caayo miduu cayriyiyo, miduu carjaameeyo Saddexdaa calaamuu ka dhigay, cuurki Reer Dalal Caqli waxaan lahayn baad tahaye, ha i caloolyeyne, Cayn iyo Hartaad leedahaye, caraqda fuuqfuuqso! this paricular poem as i understad promotes war and uses peom as a weapon. so what is good about them?

i think we have to use any thing that reduces the infection of HIV and other intercourse infactions. i don't think only ulama have the answer to HIV/AIDs problem and they try to educated our people and leave other peoples to do what they can to curb the infactoues diseases. Idiology should not play the lives of the somali people.

how many times should i tell you i'm not somalilander and never been in somaliland although i was told it has some of most buautiful mountains in the horn of africa. i'm born and bread in mogadisho if you now what i mean. Well there you have it foks, the male version of our dearly departed SamiGyrl. horn the great somali nationalist and the father of all moral issues. Horn was that you who said they sent money to those moriyaan in xaraale who are killing each other? observer If Reyalee or anyone in this matter believe they will get a sympathy by merely showing such a high level of submissivness and by tetaining innocent people because they are from "certain" qabil is WRONG. In my ethincal boundary such a dabadhilifnimo is shameful not mention sharafdhac to the entire somali poplation. nothing wrong with fullfilling your part of the bargain to keep the area safe for ever body. secondly as you didn't disbute the reason for the deportation, which one has the priority public sefaty or appeasing few altra somali nationalist? Being born and raised in Addis Ababa i deeply know what is going on in that part of the world far better than most in here. i doubted this one. if you really know the situation of the people in those area you wouldn't support fringe tribal group. the people in the somali region lived the worse sitaution before 1990 now they getting better by the day schools are opening, colleges also constracted and some of them opened, their state government start functioning and so fort. once i met some of the people who visited the area and told me one of the problems is ONLF they blow up civilian lorries or kill those who provide food and medicine and also provoke the the Ethiopian army so they can recruit more. SSDF, USC, SNM and now ONLF is using it so don't be fooled by poems, songs and other parapaganda for the war. since the creation of somalia we had trouble with the issue of the somali region two wars and lot of problems not any more. Labo qaawani isma qaadi karaan. OG-moti brother hopeless brother? is that what you called brothers who are fighting for their lives and religion and freedom against kufaar, i am disappointed you saying that... anyway ... everything is in Allah's hand, and if you think or seek recognition from kaafir and think that with Ethopia being happy about you .. you will accomplish your objectives then you lost faith, you seeking help from Kaafir first second Human, and forgetting the creator... all i can say is ... Somaliland government did major mistake against their people and against their somali, and muslim brothers, and what goes around comes around, they forgot how people in O G A D E N helped Somaliland refugees from previous Somali government and welcomed them what the payback .. submit people whom seeked their help to the enemies, what you forgetting moti is the people of this region especailly to those their name overshadows the region took part and became part and the parcel of the somali problem. in 1980s col Jess recruited lots of them from the refugee camps in Hargeysa whereas others called from Ethio-Somali border to fight for siyad barre. in the south they became the the largest clan in the somali army (not scientific observation though) driving the locals/natives out of the national army. so the people in the region are not innocent as you my suggest. the other thing, for once in their life people in "0gaden" or somali region in Ethiopia should take care of their life and their affairs for them selves and not hide behind the baner of Somaliwayn-nimo.

Sharon threatens unilateral steps Friday 19 December 2003, 8:12 Makka Time, 5:12 GMT Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon has vowed to take unilateral measures to end the Palestinian-Israeli conflict if the US-backed "road map" fails. In a major policy speech on Thursday, Sharon said Israel will implement a so-called Disengagement Plan even as efforts to implement Washington's blueprint continued. He accused the Palestinians of not following the "road map" and warned to act in months. Palestinians have accepted the plan unconditionally while Sharon specified 14 objections. "If within a number of months the Palestinians will continue not carrying out their part of the road map, then Israel will initiate a unilateral security measure," Sharon said. Israel's justice minister said moves could start within three months. Palestinians and international mediators oppose any unilateral actions, saying that only a negotiated agreement with the Palestinians can end the violence and lead to peace. Sharon said that the plan would involve the re-deployment of Israeli occupation forces and changing the distribution of Jewish settlements to reduce the number of Israelis near centres of Palestinian population. Palestinian concerns In an effort to quell US fears of unilateral moves, he said Israel would closely coordinate with Washington, its main ally. Migron settlement is due to be dismantlement Sharon also warned that Palestinians would end up with less land if Israel went its own way. Palestinians fear such measures would demarcate the borders of a future state. Speaking to a security conference in the Tel Aviv suburb of Herzliya, Sharon reiterated calls for Palestinians to dismantle resistance groups fighting Israeli occupation. Reactions In Washington, the White House said it would oppose any unilateral moves that could hinder peace. It urged Sharon and his Palestinian counterpart Ahmad Quraya to "meet very soon, without preconditions". Sharon vowed to speed up building of the apartheid wall Quraya, on his part, said he was disappointed at Sharon's "threats", reiterating that the Palestinians are committed to the "road map". "This is not a prescription for peace, this is a prescription for more war and more attacks and more isolation and more segregation against the Palestinian people," said Palestinian Foreign Minister Nabil Shaath. Hamas, which spearheads the Intifada, said Sharon's unilateral disengagement was "worthless" and pledged to continue its struggle. "Sharon is asking Palestinians to raise white flags, to surrender," said Hamas founder and spiritual leader Shaikh Ahmad Yasin. US officials are wary of Sharon creating "political facts on the ground" as the apartheid wall Israel is building cuts off parts of the occupied West Bank. Israel claims the wall is necessary to prevent the infiltration of Palestinian resistance fighters but Palestinians and human rights groups fear it could demarcate the borders of a future state. In Thursday's speech, Sharon said work on the barrier would be speed up. Anticipated address The speech comes after weeks of build-up. Sharon began speaking of undefined "unilateral steps" last month, indicating that he might consider moving West Bank Jewish settlements while re-occupying parts the West Bank. The "road map" requires Israel to freeze settlement activity in the occupied West Bank and Gaza Strip, and calls on the Palestinians to dismantle resistance groups-steps neither side has taken. Israel has some 150 settlements in the West Bank and Gaza, with about 220,000 Jewish settlers, who are often heavily armed. Palestinians say a crackdown on resistance groups will spark a civil war. Sharon's declaration came as his government faced intense pressure to take action to end the Intifada. Sharon was elected on a platform to stamp out the Palestinian uprising.

Reyale was luck to survive that assassination attempt by sool people. this part of somalia or somaliland depends where you stand- has very dark side which is where the last elected president of somalia was assassinated back in 1969. also most supporters of siyad barre and his grand father and his inspirational role model -sayid mohamed came from this area. so its not surprising to see an other president run away for his life and consequently reduce likelihood of trouble in the region.

if every peace conference fails because of disagreement of who gets what and who supports to which foriegn government then there is no hope for our people. federal state may have some merits but most somalis don't buy it because they can't agree to share existing regions and cities. and i don't think they going to agree to a federal system they never had any experience of it before. there are some assumptions behind this federal system interprise and this map in particular. its assumed that different tribes would accept to live places that they can be a minority. and i think somalis believe that if they live a place which they are in minority then they can't live properly, safely and prosperesly. to me any arrangement federal, confederal, saperation, unitry etc. is good as long somali people can live safe and in agreement with each other.

Libya to give up WMD Libya's leader Colonel Gaddafi has said his country sought to develop weapons of mass destruction capabilities but will dismantle this programme completely, Prime Minister Tony Blair has announced. "This decision is an historic one and a courageous one and I applaud it," Mr Blair said. Colonel Gaddafi had told him the process of dismantling the programme would be "transparent and verifiable", the prime minister said in a statement from Durham Cathedral. The range of all Libya's missiles would be restricted to "no more then 300km", he added. The US and its allies have long suspected that Libya had secret chemical and bio-weapons programmes, however Libya always denied such allegations saying it had only facilities for pharmaceutical or agricultural research. Mr Blair said Britain had been engaged in talks with Libya for nine months. "Libya came to us in March following successful negotiations on Lockerbie to see if it could resolve its weapons of mass destruction issue in a similarly cooperative manner," he said. The decision entitled Libya to rejoin the international community, Mr Blair said. President Bush confirmed the announcement from the White House. "Col Gaddafi's's commitment, once fulfiled, will make our country more safe and our world more peaceful," President Bush said. Story from BBC NEWS: http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/uk_politics/3335965.stm Published: 2003/12/19 22:38:26 GMT © BBC MMIII

i heard these kind of stories form the man and i dont buy them any more.

yes he should be hunged so other tyrants in the region will know what will happen to they if they don't change their way and give their people back to their freedom, justice and human rights.

first of all i'm not somalilander and i'm definitely not Reyale supporter but i can totally understand why they did what they did. Horn politics is far from emotional nor has any moral bases. its only calculating what is working for you and how to survive. sland kick out and some times put in jail many people from somali proper ie. Konfor because they consider them as foreigners what about those from Western somalia, they definitely consider as Ethiopians. People from western somalia and ONLF in particular must understand these new realities and act upon it. Every muslum country is doing same thing working with any body else to get help and support. its not reyale the first person who did this cooperation with Ethiopeans Egal did, so A/lahi yusuf, mohamed dheere and so forth. and when they get the recognition then sovereign nations change course as they please. Libaax thanks for your advice but does your friend "die hard" have any better way to get recognition? Observer Soyaal I understand your ambition to be recognize but not in SUCH A DISGRACEFUL WAY SXB. I know this is a bitter pill to swallow, but I don't think I stand alone when I tell you that, be it your previous posting which is removed by admin. is full of "gutter-trash" and are hovering inch-close to complete worthlessness. Your bigotry and norrow mindness, which I abhore, will not get you or anyone else anywhere. after all you're one of conspirators who hide behind moral high ground to censor the opinions of other people. I'm sorry but you're far removed from the reality of what is happening in the horn of africa. whether you like or not the lion ie. amxaaro as you may call it or more appropriately Ethiopeans are running the show. they are pulling any one in the region and no one is cabaple of doing anything they oppose. And about the ONLF they better sign peace with Ethiopeans or find alternative way to fight may be using comercial planes to hit Hotel wabi shabeele etc.

i think the isolation that the somalilands governments sufures at the moment and their close relationship with the Ethios forces them to prove that they are worthy of support/friendship and if slands existance depends on this kind of service to Ethiopeans then ONLF (which i don't support) should sacrifice few of their members to help their hopeless brothers to survive.

. Warar sugan baanu haynaa in uu dilkii Cabdiqaadir Koosaar iyo Aadan-shiine ka dambeeyey, waxaanu haynaa in uu iska hortaagay in baadhitaan lagu sameeyo, waxaanu haynaa in uu Itoobiya u qoray waa arrin SNM u taalla ee yaan la soo farogelin. these are too strong statements and why not the minster wait the setting up of the commission he mentioned repeatedly during his press statement and its verdic before going all in public. isn't this prejudice the case of the accused if any case to answer and also poison the public opinion. socondly why the minster so angry about general statement the silaanyo made, is it -meel bukto iyo far baa isog. Xasuuqa Waloweyn baa qaadatay, adduunkii baa aqbalay, dhabarkaynu u saarnay, waynu ku shaambadaynay, Xabaalihii Malko-durduro baynu tusnay, adigu ha innagu soo celin, waxaynu u rarnay dad aynu is hayno, oo col nahay, oo culayskooda qaadi kari waayey, adigu ha u khafiifin, haddii aanad dan kale lahayn ha u hiilin oo ha noqon Faysal baa rag laayey. Waa hadallada ay ku dacwoodaan Koonfurtu oo ay leeyihiin Malko-durduro dadka ku aasan ee ay dadka tusayaan waa lafihii Oromadii iyo dadkii kale ee Koonfurta ee ay laayeen, halkii ay ku aaseen, tii bay innagu shaabadaynaysaa oo UN-tu yidhaahdeen waxaanu soo diraynaa dad baadha lafahaas waqtigii ay ahaayeen 1981 – 1988. Arrimaha qaarkood cadowga looma markhaati furo, yaanay odhanin Madaxweynaha ninka doonayaa waa kaa caddeeyey in ay iyagu is xasuuqeen. Dadkeennu waa dad masaakiin ah oo 60-kii ilduufay, maantana aan u baqayo in ay ilduuf kale galaan. Ninkaa [siilaanyo] xisbigiisu aamusiin maayo oo kuwa cid u xigaa aamusiin maayaan Aadan Madoobe [Reerka Siilaanyo] aamusiiya haddaan garanayo waan la hadli lahaa, ma garanayo, illeyn qofka cid uun baa u naxdee. is this the first crack on the wall of silance surounding about what happen to hundreds of unknown human remains found in hargeysa.

somali boys with qad in their mouth loooooooooool.

Rival militias battled over barren desert lands in central Somalia on Tuesday in fighting that killed at least 31 people and wounded 50 others, a spokesman for one of the militias said. when our people learn to talk and solve problems in civilised manner and not the barrel of the gun. Allow sahal amuuraha.

Originally posted by DAD: Hey i want to ask the nomads here a honest question. If the Americans came to Somaliya while Siyaad was in power overthrowing and then occupied the country. How would you feel about it? How would other MUSLIMS view this occupation of an Islamic country? i think it would have been the best thing that could happen to Somalia and somali people. Even if the Amaricans could came to our rescue by stopping siyad barre it would be fantastic for us and we wouldn't be here suffering in every where in this world.

SOMALIA: Leaders reject expanded retreat NAIROBI, 15 Dec 2003 (IRIN) - Members of the Somali leaders' committee attending peace talks in Kenya say they will reject the expansion of a proposed retreat for Somali leaders, one of the leaders told IRIN on Monday. Mogadishu-based faction leader Muhammad Qanyare Afrah said the retreat should be limited "to the 24 leaders who signed the Cessation of Hostilities Agreement [in Eldoret in October 2002], plus [Transitional National Government President] Abdiqassim Salad Hassan". "We will also welcome observers from the civil society groups, but there should not be an expansion of the leaders' committee," he noted. Qanyare said the retreat was supposed to be for "recognised leaders and not newly minted leaders". "Our position on this is very clear. If they bring any new ones [leaders] we will not sit with them," he warned. The 10-day retreat is due to begin in Mombasa on 18 December and is expected to bring together most of the Somali leaders "to give them a chance to iron out outstanding issues and chart the way forward", said James Kiboi of the Inter-Governmental Authority on Development (IGAD) technical committee, which is steering the talks. Kiboi admitted that "there have been problems with the invitation list, but we are hopeful that all those invited will show up". He added that "it is anticipated that the number of invitees might be up to 41". Qanayare, however, said that such a number would be unacceptable to the "20 leaders who are here". The IGAD-sponsored talks began in October 2002 in the western Kenyan town of Eldoret, but were moved to the capital, Nairobi, in February this year. They have been dogged by wrangles over issues such as an interim charter (draft constitution), the number of participants in the talks and the selection of future parliamentarians.

it seems that some nomads here are too naive, they want some prove of what sadam did to his people. if you really want to know his crimes just talk to his victims. how will somalis react if iraqi person says siyad barre was very nice man and he/she can't beleive all nonsense they hear about him like bombarding hargaysa and burco, killing somalis of every work of life and those he murdered were colabraters of ethopean enemy. would that be justice to our people? Allah said if you kill one person -no matter whether they are muslim or non muslim - is like killing of whole world. what about killing of millions of muslims it becomes like considering halal to kill people and who he think like that is not muslim. sadam is not brother of a muslim, its worst kind of human. as much as we hate americal foriegn policy, ladies and gentleman of this thread the US is the super power and only Allah could stop her. so we have to learn how to live with that. It is the law of his univere whoever does justice to its people then they tent to rule this world. hence they persue to spead their civilasation. muslims did, romans did, british did and now the us.

i think syria is the weakest link in the region as iraq used to be. somalia might be next if extra ordinery thing happens like blowing up very big US interest. iran is out of hand at the moment but who knows after syria they may rank up the list of US war target.

the cupture of sadam sends shock waves to all arab and muslim dictators that if they are not kind to their people then people will abandon him in the time of their great need.

hi guys i was very happy to see the man who killed millions of muslims and its also good day for all muslims because it shows whoever kills his people and distroys his country then they will end up humilated and in a hole before going to hell. he urged his people to die for their country while he saves this rotten one. now the message is clear for other dictators in Arab and muslim world treat your people bad and you will end up like sadam and siyad barre. but the reaction from family and friends were different.

Smith you know as do, every sub tribe and all local politicians want higher profile so they can obtain more money from thier adminstrations. however, the desire of the central admin's will always prevals. read this Radio Lascaanod (Garoowe) 05.12.2003.Wareegto ka soo baxday Xafiiska Madaxweynaha Maamul goboleedka Puntland ayaa lagu magcaabay laba gobol oo cusub taasi oo gobolada dalka ka dhigaysa 8 gobol the problem is not the creation of these new regions but the timing is very critical. Smithy is this just coincence? somaliland minister visits caynabo to caltivate local support and inspect his military while abdulahi announces his new regions. read this Wasiiro ka tirsan dawlada Somaliland oo socdaal hawleed ku jooga degmada Caynabo. Wasiirka Wasaarada Maaliyada Mudane Xuseen Cali Ducaale (Cawil) iyo Wasiirka Wasaarada Hawlaha guud iyo Guryaynta Mudane Siciid Sulub ayaa socdal haleed ku tagay Magaalada Caynaba oo ka tirsan gobolka Sool. Wasiirada ayaa socdaalkoodan oo ay ujeedadiisu ahayd u kuurgalida xaalada nabadgelayada iyo xaalada nololeed ee Degmada Caynaba waxay kulano kala duwan la yeesheen waxgaradka iyo odayaasha Degmada Caynaba,iyagoo ka wada hadlay xaalada wakhtigan ee gobolada Bari gaar ahaan gobolka Sool oo ay ka mid tahay degmada Caynaba,waxaana la sheegay in la isku afgartay waxyaabihii halkaa lagaga wada hadalay. Wefdigan wasiirada ah ayaa kulan kale la yeeshay fadhiga Ciidamada Qalabka Sida ee Somaliland ee ku sugan jiida hore ee aagaas kuwaas oo ah Ciidamada laga soo raray magaalada Laascaanood,iyadoo sida la ogsoon yahay,xukuumada Somaliland ay dib ugu soo celisiy ciidamadii ka joogi jiray magaalada Laascaanood iyo weliba maamulka Somaliland ee ka taliya gobolka Sool oo xaruntoodu ay tahay magaalada Caynaba. Wasiirka Wasaarada Maaliyada Mudane Cawil ayaa sheegay in Xukuumada Somaliland ay dedaal ugu jirto sidii ay u taageeri lahayd deegaanadii ay abaaruhu ku habsadeen,sida Degmada Caynaba oo kale,waxaanu sheegay in maalinta bari ah la soo gaadhsiin doono kaalmo raashin ah oo ka kooban 2000 oo kiish oo raashin ah Degmada Caynaba,isagoo sheegay in goobaha kalana sidaa si la mid ah loogu gaadhsiin doono raashinkaas,inkastoo ay hada roobab wanaagsan ka da,een gabi ahaanba gobolada Somaliland gaar ahaana gobolada Sool,Sanaag iyo Togdheer. Wasiirka Maaliayada Mudane Cawil waxaa uu u soo jeediyay dadweyanaha ku dhaqan Degmada Caynaba in ay gacan ka gaystaan hawlaha cashuur ururinta si loo gaadho himilada dalka,waxaanu sheegay in Xukuumdu ay soo dhawaynayso talada dadka ee ku waajahan cashuuraha. Wasiirka Wasaraada Hawlaha Guud Mudane Siciid Sulub ayaa isaguna dhagax dhigay Xarun cusub oo uu ugu talo galay inay noqoto xarunta cashuuraha ee degmada Caynaba taas oo ay yeelan doonaan Shaqaalaha Wasaarada Maaliyada ee Caynaba, Degmada Caynaba ayaa la sheegay inay tahay meelaha cashuurta badan ee dhinaca barigu ka soo baxdo,waxaana badanaa mara ganacstada ka timaada magaalada Boosaaso,iyo kuwa u socdaba, Wefdigan ayaa la sheegay in ay waxyaabaha ay u tageena ay ugu muhiimsan tahay arimo siyaasadeed oo aan daboolka laga qaadin. Hadh Wanaag. i wonder why abdulahi didn't go public any of his announcements of new regions while Egal was in power. any explainations?

its sad and hard to beleif. if galkayo is in that situation what about mogadishu with high level of rape especially the small girls. Allow sahal amuuraha.

if i come across it then i watch it no particular interest though except just to laugh of it. jews use it as any other media for their advantage and if we where in their shoes then we would do the same its human thing, isn't it?