Abtigiis(A&T) and his attempts to create an argument/controversy within SOL are welcome until he digresses to issues pertaining to ‘women and their private lives’. Something tells me there’s a deep wound there caused by some young lady of the past. From the looks of it, she might’ve been from Somaliland… Illaahey ha u sahlo!

It's obvious to all which one of us is angry, saaxiib. Good luck with the new 'caravan'.

We'll wait for the London 'caravan'. Maybe this caravan will provide better 'returns' than the previous caravans lost in the scorching desert for certain, expectant individuals and groups...

xiinfaniin;779652 wrote: ^^How myopic , Macno Yare Ask MMA or Abwaan to see if they are indifferent to whether your tribal enclave secedes or not. Perhaps those from other 'corners' do not think of you much in terms of your significance in the larger picture, which makes your assessment rather ironic . No amount of 'smiley faces' will hide your pain, Xiin... Just clarifying things for the uninitiated who're constantly puzzled with a fool wailing about distant Somaliland not breaking away while beset by every calamity known to mankind in his village. Carry on and someday you'll learn to live with the ailment in peace...

It’s always highly amusing to read the postings on SOL. One thing comes through loud and clear though. While Somalia (the South) is a huge country with many different interest groups inhabiting it, opposition to Somaliland comes almost exclusively from ‘one corner’. The rest of Somalia’s communities remain ambivalent or at the very least indifferent. This boils down to this group’s fear of remaining a perpetual minority in both Somaliland and Somalia while having tasted ‘the highs of ultimate state power’ under the united Somali Republic of the past. Well, those days are long gone, my friends. Make peace with the realities of the new century. Push with all your might but just don’t scream as the push back is given…

Contrary to what many claim in this Forum, no gov't is recognized internationally by most countries in the former Somalia. The major powers have made this clear in many statements. Here's a statement from the U.S. State Dept.: The United States supports the efforts of the TFG to establish a viable central government, see Hillary Rodham Clinton, Secretary of State, Remarks with Somali Transitional Federal Government President Sheikh Sharif Sheikh Ahmed (Aug. 6, 2009) , but does not recognize the TFG as the sovereign government of Somalia. The United States does continue to recognize the State of Somalia http://www.americanbar.org/content/dam/aba/publishing/preview/publiced_preview_briefs_pdfs_09_10_08_1555_AffirmanceAmCuUSA.authcheckdam.pdf Page 4

Where are the buildings and houses of Buuhoodle in the pics? Looks like they're standing in the middle of the countryside with livestock grazing behind them. Since Buuhoodle as a town is divided right along the border (between a Somaliland side and an Ethiopian side of the town), couldn't they at least take pictures in the Ethiopian side? It would make for better PR value to increase the diaspora donations...

Jacaylbaro;775390 wrote: Sources just told me Carafaat is also fake ....... Of course, it's a fake identity - another Siyadist masquerading as a Somalilander. Wuu waashey sidii Buuhoodle loo galeyba....

Carafaat;775256 wrote: Looooool@Mintid childish behaviour, trying to discredit someone when they dont agree with you. It work work Just ask Xaaji Xunjuf who I am, he will tell you I have the longest clan lineage up to bin Haashim. P.S. Cuqdada iyo beente iska dhadhiciisay iska saar, nobody hates Somaliland. You still sound upset and overly excited. Like I told you, just be who you are, no need to pretend to be something else. All I'm pointing out is your 'unionist' ways & now that you've officially confirmed it - All's good! Question: Why were you hiding it for the past few months (beating around the bush, claiming to be for Somaliland's independent sovereignty)? Did you actually think you could bring the Somalilanders on SOL to your Unionist ways? You obviously have spent quite a bit of time 'around the socialist campfires with other global revolutionaries in the Italian countryside' (as you informed/impressed us with in one of your expansive essays...). But as a Unionist, it's much easier to see where you're coming from. They say the 'truth shall set you free!' Well, carry on with the revolution...

Carafaat;775241 wrote: Adeer both me, Hadraawi and adeero Siilanyo are Somalilanders and both Unionist. We love Somali Unity, and how hard you and your kind try to spread the virus of division and cuqdad for it wont work on us. We are imuum for it. Calm down, saaxiib. Obviously, the majority of Somaliland shares that cuqdad with me! But you wouldn't know that, would you? Nothing wrong with union for those who want it. However, Somaliland doesn't belong to that camp. But it was a little hard to take you seriously in earlier postings with your contradictions of "I support Somaliland's political separation but can't we just look into cultural unions, etc., etc.,". Piece of advice: Never pretend to be what you're not. It never works on the cognizant...

Carafaat;775226 wrote: Could be the reason why the free media has been shutdown, so folks wont be alarmed about the 'deal'. As a Unionist I say, whatever it takes for the common interest. Excellent! See, it wasn't so hard to come clean after all that subterfuge of being a Somalilander. As for a deal between Ali Khalif and Siilaanyo, I wouldn't bet money on that. What does Siilaanyo have to gain? Turn his population against himself for an elusive deal with the South (with far too many stakeholders)? A more likely story is the current understanding with the Puntland leadership in regards to the 'SSC' group.

Actually, Faroole and Company are quite happy about this development! They've opposed the Taleex project from the beginning. From a Somaliland national security perspective, Faroole has been a responsible neighbor and stakeholder in the region... He abandoned claims on Eastern Somaliland a long time ago and concentrated on home base in his projects.

NGONGE;774852 wrote: Same old, same old. Somalis and their passionate xamaasad. When the meeting in Taleex began, we had A&T, Xiin and Baashe gloating and talking about historic this and 'game-changer' that. They were dying to see or hear the SL response to that meeting. Well, now the shoe is on the other foot and the gloating is coming from the Guru & Xaaji X! Still, away from all this hasty judgment and excited haste, I personally would love to know what Siilaanyo hopes to achieve here. He had a chance to invade that town for the past year and a half. He could have done it at a time when the clan from there was at its weakest and most divided. He didn't! Why did he choose to invade today, when everybody whose anybody from that clan is meeting in Taleex and when the (obvious) and expected response is going to be one of condemnation and total unity (or at least that's what it should be)? What happens next and where do the Ethiopians (who were said to have foresaken SL) stand on all of this? Furthermore, how will PL respond (in words if not deed)? Worrying times ahead. Siilaanyo is a politician at the end of the day. Lately his administration has been attacked from the 'right' within Somaliland as being soft on national security. The defense minister's admission that the admin initially supported the Taleex meeting further pressured the admin to show some 'brawn'. This latest move could be seen as a reaction to that pressure...

Carafaat;774705 wrote: Dont worry, no ego is damaged. Just little dissapointed in our lack of knowledge and understanding In Somalia and what is going on there. And some of the narrow vieuws still held. You might have a point regarding Somalia but, unlike you, I know what's possible and not possible with Somaliland and its people. Something tells me you're not really from Somaliland, with all your incessant talk of sitting around the campfire attempting to bring back a corpse called Somaliweyn. If you were, you would be in touch, on a daily basis, with how resolutely Somalilanders are opposed to unification with Somalia. It doesn't matter what you and I think, it's the folks on the ground that make the decisions. So carry on with 'utopia' while some of us continue to live in the real world. Right now as I humor your silly, usual 'what-if' scenarios, Somaliland is moving to bring Buuhoodle under the flag by military force. Does that seem like the actions of a leadership and population that's interested in Somaliweyn?? Wake up and deal with the realities...

Carafaat;774358 wrote: Mintid, I rather seek dialogue and commonalities on those issue's that Unite us. And I know your kind, who always look for the diffrences even on microscopical scale and promise health by prescriping folks with cyanide capsules. Obviously, I've touched a nerve.... Calm yourself, it's not that serious... Learn to harness that fragile ego.

Chimera;773976 wrote: Mintid Farayar, I really doubt that Somalis are eachother's biggest enemies, in-fact I refuse to believe that, especially with regards to the common man in Mogadishu, Hargeisa or Garowe. An entire people can't be judged on the actions of a few opportunistic men. Be that as it may, one can take any country in the world and see similar episodes that have unfolded in the Somali peninsula. Indeed China's greatest period of war was not against a foreign enemy like Japan or Britain, but one of Chinese versus Chinese during the Taiping Rebellion, similarly America's greatest threat to its existence as a country post-independence did not come from the British or any power in the world, it came from within, again a situation of Americans versus Americans. Only 65 years ago, the Europeans engage in the greatest slaughter in human history when savagely attacked one another, yet look at them today part of Union bailing eachother out. A political landscape is never static but very fluid, what might seem impossible today, doesn't necessarily have to be so in ten to twenty years time. I still propose a non-aggression pact between Somali stake-holders, and this would only serve Somaliland's interest for any entity not adhering to this pact would be highlighted by the elites of Somaliland, and if like Oodweyne claims of Somaliland having special friends looking for her interests are indeed true rather than wishful thinking, then such pact can only be considered a positive initiative no matter what way you look at it. OK, a commendable proposal in any other scenario besides the current Somali one... Question: Who does the Somaliland leadership sign this pact with? Who's the appropriate, responsible stakeholder on the Somalia side that can enforce this agreement? Somalia proper is a land of surrogate militias remotely piloted by outside powers that are changed as soon as they outlive their usefulness to the patron country.

The American private intelligence firm, Stratfor, gave this forecast for the Somalia situation in its 2012 Forecast: In 2012, a containment strategy will solidify against Somali jihadists -- both the transnationalist group al Shabaab and its nationalist rival, the Somali Islamic Emirate. This strategy will have three elements. The first will feature African Mission in Somalia (AMISOM) forces consolidating their presence in Mogadishu. These forces include peacekeepers from Uganda, Burundi and Djibouti, and additional forces from Sierra Leone will be deployed soon. In the second part of the strategy, Kenyan troops will strengthen the cordon along the Kenyan border with southern Somalia. The 4,000 Kenyan troops there, nominally part of AMISOM, will hold territory and interdict Somali jihadists moving about the area. Lastly, Ethiopian forces will fortify a cordon along Ethiopia's border with central Somalia, also attempting to hold the territory and interdict jihadists. To deny the Somali militias propaganda material, AMISOM, the Kenyans and the Ethiopians will not push deep into Somali territory to engage the jihadists. Instead, local militias employing guerrilla tactics will fight the jihadists within the containment zone. The combined efforts will successfully disrupt the jihadists' lines of supply, but they will not bring about their defeat. The United States will continue covert action in the Somali theater. U.S. special operations forces and unmanned aerial vehicles will collect and share intelligence with the Somali government and its allies. Additionally, U.S. forces in East Africa and the Horn of Africa will remain poised to strike high-value Somali jihadists or senior al Qaeda targets, should the opportunity arise This is the 'stealth trusteeship' I referred to in previous postings.

A plausible and incredibly scary scenario! Thanks for posting.

2. In aanay gobollada SSC ka tirsanyn maamulada Puntland & Somaliland, isla markaana la laalay shuruucdii iyo cahdiyadii lala galay labada maamul, An admission by the concerned clan that their leadership did sign on to Somaliland during its creation. Truth eventually comes to the surface...

Chimera, My points were simply to correct a few factual errors you made while presenting your optimistic outlook on the Somali future. However, eventually you'll come to the sobering reality that the pressing enemy most Somalis have is not Ethiopia or Kenya, but rather their fellow Somalis. But most of us are shielded from that reality by the sheltered life of living outside. You proposed initially a non-aggression pact between the different Somali stakeholders but if the history of the last 30 years is anything to go by, Somali pacts signed by Somali stakeholders (with the glaring exception of Somaliland) are usually broken before the ink was dry. As for Carafaat, I lost you a long time ago when you waxed on about universal world peace, global socialism alliance, and sitting around European campfires discussing how to unite the malcontented of the globe....

Carafaat;773847 wrote: details, details, details. Point is. Xaalada wee is badali kartaa, laakinse idinku ma isla meeshi aa istagee? Hadaa isla meeshaa isttaagisid, adiga lee waaye. Reality check for dreamers: Nothing can be accomplished without security and societal peace. It's precisely due to this total separation from the problems of the South that has allowed the precious stability in Somaliland to take root. Look no further than Puntland, which due to its adventurism in the South deals with continuous insecurity (daily killings of prominent citizens and officials in the streets of its cities, pirate fiefdoms within the state, a robust Al Shabaab presence, etc.,). Far from Chimera's prediction of a revived, sovereign Somalia, a stealth trusteeship under regional African armies is being shaped under our very noses. But we can continue blinding ourselves to the realities on the ground and engage in 'what if' scenarios all day. A better use of intellectual faculties would have been - how can the stakeholders of Somalia (the former Italian Somaliland) be moved beyond the zero-sum game mentality to regain some sovereignty. Case in point, the TFG parliament in Mogadishu voted out Sharif Hassan through the procedures in their charter. IGAD immediately negated the vote and informed the parliamentarians of looming sanctions if they persisted in this behavior. The 'roadmap' meetings in Garowe and Mogadishu are nothing more than a jockeying for position among Somali stakeholders for who becomes the 'local chieftain' for the stealth trusteeship.

Chimera;773640 wrote: Oodweyne, I'm going to ignore the verbal acrobatics, You invoked the example of Sudan, but here too you are wrong, considering for five decades both the UK and the US stood by as the North oppressed the South, this continued all the way into the last decade, until the stakeholders from the North and the South came together and determined there should be a referendum, which resulted in seperation. What exactly makes Somaliland a more special case than South Sudan for the international community to actually intervene, when in the latter they were spectators for five bloody decades, and remain so with regards to Darfur? Somaliland's quest to dismember Somalia has been ignored, and whatever development projects the US, EU or other entities have invested in the region, one can find similar projects in Puntland, so I do not consider that evidence of them conspiring with Hargeisa and its quest for recognition. In the last two decades, the multiple failed governments and movements were either to incompetent or did not earn their trust. When the US initiated "operation restore hope", it was to re-establish a central government, and UN troops arrived in the Northwest as well. The US/UN never consulted with Somalia's neighbours on the country's future, their advice wasn't even needed nor did they care about their wishes for a Somalia that is militarily inferior to them. This will not forever remain so, and a more savvy group will succeed where the others failed, and earn both their trust and support. It wouldn't take long for such a group to stand on its own two feet and eventually dismiss countries like the US, for they aren't all-powerful. In-fact recently I have come to the conclusion that their influence is only because of our current weakness, and lack of politically savvy leaders. A guy like Farmaajo almost singlehandely transformed a corrupt entity, with few strong institutions, yet slowly they're being re-established. If this were to be combined with a partnership involving a rising power like China, no amount of protestations by our neighbours could reverse Somalia's militarization process. . Chimera, Your outline of a proposal is well intentioned as others pointed out. I, however, wish to point out a few errors in your argument. I've listed a few excerpts from one of your previous pieces which aren't based on previous and current facts. 1- Most Sudan watchers and analysts don't believe it was a willingness on the part of the warring parties(North and South Sudan) that led to the historic agreement and referendum but rather renewed Western interest based on the recent oil finds in South Sudan (not to mention the Chinese exploitation of those resources). The critical importance of South Sudan to Western(and in particular U.S.) interests in the region cannot be overstated. Besides the petrochemical resources, South Sudan borders critical anchor states of the Western/U.S. power structure in Africa such as Uganda, Kenya, and Ethiopia. All threats to these countries' stability are issues of serious concern to U.S. geopolitics in Africa. 2- The level of international aid to Southwest Somalia (TFG mandate), Puntland, and Somaliland are not similar nor equal. First, the TFG receives security assistance which comes through aid to AMISOM. The humanitarian aid is filtered through international NGOs. This is the situation you find TFG leaders continuously protesting against in speech after speech. That leaves Puntland and Somaliland which qualify for developmental assistance due to the level of peace present in those regions. A simple search through the UNDP or World Bank website will show you the difference in scale between the aid given to those regions. It's argued that Puntland doesn't yet have the administrative capacity (working ministries with a functioning civil service) to receive anywhere the number of projects that Somaliland receives. Another reason is - the Western community decided that Somaliland had to be rewarded (on a far greater scale) for its democratization process as an example to other Somali-inhabited regions to follow that example. 3- Neither 'Operation Restore Hope' nor its successor 'UNISOM' came to Somaliland (which I assume you meant when you said "the Northwest"). The Somaliland president at the time, M.I. Egal, stated in no uncertain terms that there was no need for their presence since there was neither famine nor insecurity in Somaliland. A simple web-based news search from that time will clarify that error for you. 4- You hold Farmaajo as an example of good governance. But the facts disprove that assumption. What Farmaajo had during his tenure was excellent 'public relations' within the Somali media. This might have been due to other Somali stakeholders weariness with the constant tussle within the highest Mogadishu power institutions between those who hail from Mogadishu and those who hail from Puntland. Farmaajo was seen as a welcome respite from that continuous struggle which led nowhere for the last two decades. However, it was under Farmaajo's reign that the most 'damning' joint TFG financial auditor/international community auditor report was released highlighting the rampant corruption and misappropriation of financial resources by the TFG and its cabinet. Many would argue that this wouldn't qualify as a blueprint for success for a govenment in Mogadishu.

Abtigiis;773339 wrote: Mintid and Ngonge, I think this is different than Carta and the previous events. You can hear the loud calls for an attack on SSC from your elders and politicians. And that is because they feel things are getting out of hand. Minitid - start Plan B adeer, which is to go for the independence of the burco-berbera-hargeisa triangle. As things are now the Plan A which was to pretend different clans in the north support this madness of secession is now kaput and gone. Freshprince - why does SSC has to be either within Puntland, Somaliland or whatever. Like a tick on a sheep, can't you survive without sticking with anyone else? I think the rest of the SSC Solers will be disappointed by your post up there. AT, Let me go down this little windy road with you for a second... You said "As things are now the Plan A which was to pretend different clans in the north support this madness of secession is now kaput and gone." Now the question I present to you is who was this "pretension" or "plan" being presented to? The other Somalis, foreigners, NGO's, state actors? Please clarify, if you don't mind...

Abtigiis;773295 wrote: In the end, the war of liberation that resulted in today's status quo in the North was fought by a single clan, and for a single-clan agenda. Those who were not part to it to that struggle obvioulsy are not too keen to share its exploits. That's why it's a called - minority opinion - in a functioning democracy. The usual grasping at straws while hailing 'Somaliland's impending demise' by the Siyadist wings.... First it was 'Arta' with the creation of the Abdiqasim fiasco - "Wallee, it's over for Somaliland now!". Then A. Yusuf's project concocted in a pig-farm in Kenya - Way u dhamaatey Somaliland!. Well, here's the latest mirage to get all excited about. So what has changed in terms of Somaliland's support within the Eastern Sool community? As even the Siyadists lamented many times, the Eastern Sool community was split 3-ways between supporters of Somaliland, supporters of Puntland, and supporters of a central TFG (let's set aside those who have radical AlShabab leanings). Taleex, all the way at the eastern periphery of Sool, was traditionally controlled by Puntland militias, even after Somaliland grabbed control of Las Anond and most of Sool. Today it seems Puntland has lost control of the village to the TFG-allied wing of the Sool community. How does this affect Somaliland in the power equation on the ground? It doesn't - there's been no defection in the Somaliland-leaning wing of the Eastern Sool community, only fluctuations of support between those who supported Puntland and those who supported a centralized TFG. Somaliland still retains the support of a significant wing of the local community as well as maintaining critical possession and governance of most of the real estate the concerned clan hails from. So my dear Siyadists, carry on and sing the parade songs from Xalane military academy. We're all allowed to dream.....

Carafaat;766018 wrote: Very unfortuanate. He was jailed on constitutional grounds. Religion-based parties are banned in the constitution of Somaliland. It creates the silly and problematic question of who's more of a Muslim in a 100% Muslim society.