Speaking of barking at the peripheries According to the AFP narrative, Ethiopia has desperately wanted to leave for a while but did not have a responsible military authority to hand off to. Now the question answered by our previous postings is why Ethiopia is in such a hurry to leave. Hence, the financial equation of maintaining troops with a shrinking budget! It gets tiring 'educating' pirates......

xiinfaniin;928381 wrote: ^^You really do protest too much, Mintid Must you object every statement xiin makes lol...when I say Mooge, there are number of Mooges in Kismayo . If you are asserting internet is no wise possible from Kisamyo, that is a different story all together . ;) Ok, so now there are multiple Mooge's under the same 'username'. I'm just giving you a reality check regarding the situation in certain parts of the world. I know it doesn't fit the 'cafe' storylines but life goes on. As for Xiin the online personality, what would SOL be without Xiin. Someone has to fill Duke's shoes Viva Xiin!

Precisely Oodka! This is the 'diplomatic pressure' the Hassan Sheikh gov't possesses that I've alluded to in many previous posts. Xiin, Oodka knows where my assertions come from. That's a little secret between him and I. But, please, do carry on

xiinfaniin;928367 wrote: Baashi, I don't have the names yet. Perhaps our Mooge from SOL could furnish the gallery with the 'ergo' names ---he is in Kismayo , on the ground. LOOOOOL ;) Xiin, you really believe he's on the ground and posting as regularly as he does on SOL. Using what ISP service and electrical service? You really are out of touch whiling away the time at those MN cafes. Step 50km away from Nairobi and you'll see how difficult it is to be a regular contributor to SOL... And you're talking about Kismayo Ya Duniya....

Not to mention the free equipment and administrative funds provided to the originating African country.

Naxar Nugaaleed;928366 wrote: I was under the impression that both the Kenyan and Ethiopian forces where integrated into amisom Not correct. The Ethiopians refused to come under the AMISOM umbrella to maintain their strategic maneuverability. The Kenyans initially stayed out but when the indigenous funds ran dry, they were forced to formally join the AMISOM umbrella in order to access the AMISOM financial pipeline (which is considerable by African standards - $1500 per soldier under the current fiscal year).

Oodweyne;928356 wrote: ^^^Good point and it make sense as to why Obama administration have decided to engage directly the government of Somalia instead of going through the previous channel such as Ethiopia and Kenya as the case was during the Dubya and Cheney Neo-Con administration. Precisely, Oodka! You hit the nail right on the head. Many on this Forum will get lost in the details and nuances of what's happening in the region on the geopolitical level but you always come through;) That's why you have Johnny Carson's predecessor, Jendayi Frazer, barking from the sidelines criticizing current U.S. policy re:the region. She was the one who institutionalized the past U.S. tendency to work through their Ethiopian and Kenyan partners in the region. Read her latest piece from a few days ago articulating her opposition to current U.S. policy in the region..... ________________________________________________________ Former U.S. Assistant Secretary of State Jendayi Frazer says the ICC is a Kangaroo Court and the United States must work with Uhuru Kenyatta and William Ruto 775 Views March 17, 2013 “Innocent until proven guilty” is a defining principle of all respected legal systems, including that of the United States. Presumption of innocence allows an individual to run, win and hold public office until they are found to be anything other than innocent. The High Court of Kenya upheld exactly this principle with its ruling on February 15 clearing the way for Uhuru Kenyatta to run for President in Kenya’s March 4 election. It ruled that Kenyatta’s presidential bid could go forward because the High Court has no jurisdiction to determine qualifications of a person who has been duly nominated to run for president; the Rome Statue has no provision for the International Criminal Court (ICC) to bar candidates; and importantly under Article 50 of the Kenyan Constitution, there is a presumption of innocence until the contrary is proved which falls under the category of fundamental rights and freedoms. Yet on the eve of the election, several Western countries were seen as using the ICC indictment to pre-emptively “try and convict” Uhuru Kenyatta in the court of public opinion, presumably to tank his electoral prospects. The US assistant secretary’s statement that “choices have consequences” went well beyond President Obama’s welcomed video message to Kenyans released only days before calling for a free, fair and peaceful election. In effect, the warning contradicted President Obama’s appropriate statement that “the choice of who will lead Kenya is up to the Kenyan people. The United States does not endorse any candidate for office.” Let me be equally clear: I have no preference for whom Kenyans elected as their next president. My concern is with the credibility and effectiveness of US policy in Africa. I remain troubled by the not so subtle attempt to use the ICC politically to essentially threaten Kenyans about whom to vote for in their presidential elections. To base US foreign policy on the ICC is especially problematic since the US is not a signatory to the Rome Statute which established the International Criminal Court. Moreover, the ICC’s very legitimacy has been fundamentally compromised by its first Prosecutor, Luis Moreno Ocampo, only finding cases of atrocities and crimes against humanity in Africa. At the same time, the West’s often quiet role but strong political influence on who the court targets for indictment tarnishes the court as a tool of geopolitical influence, not balanced global justice. A review of ICC cases also reveals that some African officials have instrumentally cooperated with the Prosecutor to indict their political opponents, further diminishing the impartiality of the Court. Add to this the length of trials, with only one conviction in 10 years, and the treatment of those indicted as guilty before they can prove their innocence, and the ICC begins to look like an organisation that is behaving with impunity in international affairs, rather than a court that is respectful of victims or the principle of presumption of innocence. The ICC indeed has fallen far from the high ideals of global justice and accountability that inspired its creation. The Kenyan ICC experience is instructive. The post-election violence in 2007-2008 led to an estimated 1,100 deaths and more than 600,000 displaced. I witnessed the incredible suffering of the victims across the country when I came to Kenya in January 2008 to urge President Mwai Kibaki and then ODM challenger Raila Odinga to work together to end the violence. It is right and necessary that those responsible for the violence are held accountable. Yet, the ICC, an organisation founded to bring those accused of the most heinous of crimes to account, was initially used (unsuccessfully) as political leverage to get Kenya’s Parliament to set up a domestic special tribunal to address the post-election violence. When the National Assembly failed to act, the ICC Prosecutor in 2010 brought charges against six high profile Kenyans, but victims of post-election violence are no closer to realising justice. Instead, the ICC was politicised when used to warn Kenyans about whom to vote for in their 2013 elections. Some Kenyans welcome ICC indictments against high level officials as a way to end a culture of impunity, but condemning a person based on their position, rather than a specific and proven case, is vigilantism not justice. The case alleged against Uhuru Kenyatta, for example, is fast crumbling with the new Prosecutor Fatou Bensouda withdrawing charges against his co-defendant Francis Muthaura. It is therefore especially reckless for the United States to tie its foreign policy towards Kenya on an ICC case against the President-elect that is unproven and based on hearsay, with the alleged sole eyewitness, on whom the case rested, now dropped by the Prosecutor for unreliability. The US would be more effective engaging directly with Kenyatta than creating unnecessary and unsustainable diplomatic distance, especially given the new geo-strategic realities that come with growing BRIC, and particularly Chinese, influence across Africa. What happens in Kenya undoubtedly matters to the United States. The two countries have always enjoyed strong relations and shared interests. Kenya is the economic and political powerhouse of the East African region. It is currently fighting a war in Somalia against Al-Shabaab, the Al-Qaeda affiliated jihadist group. Most international organisations and businesses operating in the region are located in Nairobi. The effect of the post-2007 election violence taught us all how important Kenya’s stability is to the economic prosperity of all its neighbours, especially landlocked Uganda, Rwanda, Burundi and South Sudan. It is critical that Kenya is supported and not destabilised at this time. The best interest of the West is served by respecting the will of the Kenyan electorate and its new institutions. Similarly, if Kenya’s Supreme Court rules against the IEBC will Prime Minister Odinga distance himself from the US during a run off to guard against any perception that he is sponsored by the West? I was inspired by Kenya’s presidential debates, and the strong engagement of Kenyan civil society to uphold their new Constitution, and safeguard the freedom of their vote conducted in a peaceful manner. In the upcoming election challenge phase, Kenya’s new institutions must be respected and allowed to operate autonomously. By Jendayi Frazer- Former US Assistant Secretary of State for African Affairs

Oodka, Since Johnny Carson took the helm re:the Africa portfolio, both the U.S. and U.K. decided to eliminate the Ethiopian and Kenyan 'translations/translaters' when it comes to the Somali security/counter-terrorism issue. The realization was made that these two countries(Kenya&Ethiopia) had different national interests coloring a far bigger Anglo/American global agenda. The demise of the IC darling, Meles Zenawi, also had a debilitating effect on Ethiopian influence on American policy-making in the region.

Oodka, Don't believe the hype. Just the usual spin from certain corners to muddy the waters. The issue is not due to misunderstandings or political conflict between Mog and Addis, but rather of a 'financial' nature when it comes to the Ethiopian state coffers. The Ethiopian military no longer has the carte blanche(in terms of substantial financing) that previously existed from the U.S. Pentagon. And maintaining standing armies in far-flung places is an expensive proposition as you're well aware! The American sequestration process is having its casualties all across the globe. And you can take that to the bank

There seems to be a growing concensus among the political elite in Somaliland on this position re:the upcoming London Conference. It will be interesting to see how this plays out vis-a-vis the larger IC/Western agenda. Note: the Wadani party was one of the first to question attending this Conference.

Former Finance Minister Awil Supports Somaliland’s Boycott Of London Conference Writen by Qaran News | Published: Mar 19th, 2013 at 04:19 PM Hargeisa(Qarannews):- Former Finance minister, Hussein Haji Ali Duale “Cawil” has welcomed the decision made by President Ahmed Mohamed Mohamud “Silaanyo” not to attend the London Conference on Somalia in May 2013. Speaking to the media, Hussein Haji Ali “Cawil” stated “It is not right that the Somaliland President attends a meeting chaired by the head of the provisional government in Somalia on issues relating to the various factions in Somalia, and I am greatly surprised that the United Kingdom government expected Somaliland to attend such a meeting not as an equal but as a supplicant”. Former Finance minister, Cawil continued “Somaliland and Somalia must meet as equals, we were equals in 1960 and we are equals in 2013. Somaliland has a democratically elected government, elected by its people, and it must protect the choice and integrity of those voters. We are two neighbouring countries, and must meet as such”. Former minister, Cawil, concluded his remarks by stating “The United Kingdom is our great friend, and will always remains so, but in diplomatic circles perception is everything, and we in Somaliland will not allow our prestige and self-respect be undermined by those who have no idea about the history of the defunct “Somali Republic”, and it is correct that the President stated that Somaliland will not attend a meeting specifically intended just for Somalia”. Qarannews

Speaking of Sultan Ali Shire, the British exiled him to their prison colony in Seychelles. Upon a work visit there some years back, I had an interesting meeting with his descendants from a Seychellian wife. It was a fascinating story of the Somali diaspora experience. I put them in touch with some members of the family living in the U.S. From there, they've maintained contact (as for the rest, not being of the 'family', I'm not in the loop But it was interesting to see how far the Somali bloodline spreads through out the world. (Maybe this shouldn't be in the Politics section, but I'm too lazy to switch between Forums)

“Annagu Shir Somalia Loo Qabanayo Tagi Mayno Waayo Somaliland Ayaa Nala Yidhaahdaa, Shirkii Hore Ee London Umuurta Dadka Soomaalida Ah Baa Lagu Xalilayay Oo May Ahayn Midnimada Somalia Loogu Yeedhay” Wasiirka Madaxtooyadda Hargeysa, March 19, 2013 (Haatuf) – Wasiirka Madaxtooyada Somaliland Xirsi Cali Xaaji Xasan ayaa mar kale ku celiyey inaanay Xukuumadda Somaliland ka qeyb gali doonin shirka Ingiriisku u qabanayo dawladda Somalia ee lagu wado inuu Magaalada London ka qabsoomo Bisha April ee fooda inagu soo haysa. Wasiir Xirsi waxa uu sheegay inaanay meesha oolin sabab ay Somaliland u tagto shir Somalia u gaar ah, kaas oo hoosta ka xariiqay inaanay xukuumadu diyaar u ahayn ka qaybgalka Shir lagu Mijo-xaabinayo Qaranimada iyo Madaxbanaanida Somaliland. Wasiirka Madaxtooyada Xirsi Cali Xaaji Xasan waxa uu sidaas ku sheegay mar uu Shalay galab-nimadii u waramayey Idaacada BBC-da laanteeda Afka Soomaaliga, ugu horayna isaga oo ka hadlaya Mawqifka xukuumadda, waxa uu yidhi “Mawqifka Somaliland, wuu cad yahay waxa weeye Annagu shir Soomaaliya loo qabanayo tagi mayno annagu tagi mayno waayo annaga Somaliland ayaa nala yidhaahdaa. Haddii Somaliland Iyo Soomaaliya la wada hadal siinayo oo si siman loo wada hadal siinayo. Waanu ka wada hadalaynaa oo darafkayaga ayaan u hadlaynaa Somaliland, madax-banaanidayada iyo dadkayaga iyo dalkayaga”. Wasiirka Madaxtooyaddu waxa uu tilmaamay in aanu shirkaasi Somaliland wax shaqo ah ku lahayn, kana qeyb geli doonin, waxaanu yidhi “Haddii ay tahay shir Soomaaliya loo qabanayo, sabab aanu u tagnaa ma jirto, dee Soomaaliya iyagaa Soomaaliya la yidhaahdaa oo marti qaadka loo sameeyay ee ha tagaan. Hadii sida la sheegayo uu Madaxweynaha Soomaaliya guddoominayana dee sabab aanu u tagnaaba ma jirto”. Dhinaca kale Wasiirka Madaxtooyada Xirsi Cali Xaaji Xasan mar la weydiiyay waxa shirkani kaga duwan yahay kuwii hore ee ay ka qeyb galeen waxa uu yidhi “Haa, wuu ka duwanaa shirkii Dubai Somaliland iyo Soomaaliya ayaa ku wada hadlayay. Kii London umuurta dadka Soomaalida ah baa lagu xalilayay oo may ahayn wax gaar ah oo midnimada Soomaaliya loogu yeedhay oo dhaqaale loogu ururinayo oo hawshooda gaarka ah lagaga hadlayee, waxay ahayd.” Isaga oo hadalkiisa sii watana, waxa uu intaas ku daray “Maadaama oo aanu ahayn Dawlad madax banaan oo u diyaar ah inay mawqifkeeda beesha caalamka u cadayso waanu tagnay waxaana naloo casuumay annaga iyo dawladda Soomaaliya si siman xiligaasi,”ayuu yidhi Md. Xirsi Cali Xaaji Xasan. Wasiirka Madaxtooyadu waxa uu intaasi ku ladhay “Haddii iyaga (Soomaaliya) loo qabtay shirkan ma xaasidayno, ma caayayno, mana maagayno, Laakiin Annaga (Somaliland) wax na khuseeya ma aha”.

I do appreciate the tactic to distract from the Kismayo issue by posting numerous provocative SL stories Wallee, Kismayo is emotional......

OK, xaaji Xiin It's quite late in my part of the world so we'll compare notes on another day We'll see what the future holds. Insha'Allah, Kheyr! Soo ducee....

xiinfaniin;928122 wrote: ^^Mintid seriously you need to learn from xiinfaniin of SOL;know what you are talking about before you embarrass yourself Yours is non story. FYI; the American Embassy at Nairobi was partly involved in what transpired at Nairobi. Shall we compare sources? Show your source that the U.S. Embassy was involved in the latest Nairobi and I'll show you the military website SOLers are familiar with both our track records when it comes to accurate citations from credible sources....LOL.... Xiin, learn from you? Seriously, seriously? Why so vexed that SL'ers are discussing Kismayo? How is it different from anywhere else Somalis live? Mise waa 'too close' to the emotions

Bravo, as if you're telling us new found knowledge. This was the right move. Somaliland and its supporters are realistic in seeing the great danger of Al Shabaab. They're not blinded by the ego-driven sermons of the Cafe Calaacal's of Minnesota. I suggested this the day the AS criminals where captured (Feb.19, precisely one month ago): Mintid Farayar;919674 wrote: It would make sense to hand the killers to the region where the crime was committed, in this case - Puntland. Let their justice system deal with them. Just my humble opinion... http://www.somaliaonline.com/community/showthread.php/69865-Somaliland-Catches-Killers-of-Garowe-Sheikh?p=919674#post919674

Says the man of the 'numerous' caravans Well the U.S. military seems to be putting this story up in their website expressly set up to inform the East African region (part of the counter-terrorism strategy). So obviously, Mintid is not alone in not taking Xiin's determination of what qualifies as a story and what doesn't as serious analysis. Remember Ole Masai's story about the old man in the makhaayad who took himself a little too seriously. Xikmad baa sheekadaa ku jirtey

xiinfaniin;928115 wrote: Who is this Sheekh Adan Sunne ? Maybe he's a pirate in disguise

Is this the usual distraction from the point? Are you claiming the story is false? Or are you claiming it's from HiiraanOnline and not from a U.S. military website?

Is Mintid ill-informed or is the U.S. Military ill-informed? Quote from article: Prime Minister Abdi Farah Shirdon said the Kismayo administration's decision to start the Jubbaland conference without the federal government was unconstitutional, adding that only the federal government has the right to establish regional administrations in Somalia. Maybe it's time to change the 'username' as others often do on these boards. It seems to give some severe ulcers But I get it now: Kismayo is the new 'caravan'!!!!

Two different narratives here: 1) The Jubba initiative is off to a grand start and can no longer be impeded by any entity (including the Fed Gov't ) 2)We need the support of the Fed Gov for this initiative and are still eagerly awaiting that endorsement Below is a news story from an American military website: Jubbaland committee requests federal participation March 15, 2013 The technical committee for forming an administrative region for Jubbaland has called on the Somali federal government to participate in the state-building process in Kismayo, Somalia's Garowe Online reported Thursday (March 14th). "We are asking that the Somali federal government stand by our side and give us support," said participating traditional elder Suldan Sharif Makoma. The Jubbaland state formation process has reached several milestones, according to technical committee director Abdiqani Abdi Jama. The 400 delegates present have agreed on a temporary three-year charter to govern the next administration, he said, indicating that the meetings will continue regardless of whether the federal government becomes involved. Prime Minister Abdi Farah Shirdon said the Kismayo administration's decision to start the Jubbaland conference without the federal government was unconstitutional, adding that only the federal government has the right to establish regional administrations in Somalia.

Apophis;927513 wrote: Your intentions/feelings illuminate the points you made; their deconstruction tells us whether or not to take the points seriously; and we haven't. N/P. It was like taking candy from an autistic child who also had Down Syndrome. Ok

^^Wow And I thought Zack sounded a little upset... until this one showed up! But you haven't addressed any of the points, only my intentions/feelings... which are neither here nor there.

Zack, ha xanaaqin, sxb. Traditional your kin and my kin might not always be on the best of terms, but we have a tradition of speaking directly and honestly to each other, sax? This was an admirable project which stood a reasonable chance of succeeding but you allowed other interests to use your people's desire for a homeland for their own larger agendas (some of these interests are Somali, some are non-Somali). This was the major fail by your kin. You did the work but 'pirates' and 'Kenyans' are selling your project to the outside world! That allows Hassan Sheikh to oppose your project from a moral vantage point: "I'm defending Jubba/Somalia from the 'pirates' who brought the Ethiopians to Mogadishu and the Kenyan occupiers." Why the silence when it comes to PR and propaganda from your community? What happened to the eloquent Prof. Gandhi? I don't have a horse in the game...... just engaging in a critique of the tactics and strategy....