Baashi;930477 wrote: ^That's the spirit :)I am kind of worrying that Habar vs. Habar misunderstanding might get out of hand. Baashi, You were doing so well till that line There's a website that devotes(for the last decade) its whole editorial section to those wishes (the looming disintegration of Somaliland). It's called 'Wardheernews.com'. They would appreciate a new essay on the subject, preferably with an 'impending' timeline.....

Quick question: What happened to Gaandhi? The professor seems to have disappeared.

Good job, Osman. Keep the pictures coming. Guys, leave the Ditoore alone. He shows an admirable devotion to his home region and should be encouraged.

Baashi;930271 wrote: True. My sometimes off base analysis misses the mark by a mile iyo hodhodho' If you think Durriyada greivances is limited to "we were colonized by different European power and we're striving to reconstitute now defunct bygone status then you are in for a surprise Talk about mischaracterization of an argument, sxb. Many have their opinions on that topic. Mine is very simple: It(SL) works! Nothing else in the former Somalia works... You're leaving out the fail-safe mechanism within the SL system that the rest of the former Somalia doesn't have: one-man/woman, one-vote. You see, only in Somaliland does the average Jamac and Xaliimo get a vote! This limits the room for maneuver of any politician within that system. While some of us agitate from the sidelines regarding tactics(which is all it is, irrespective of your misunderstanding), we rest assured that a certain social compact exists that's the backbone of the whole system. That's the guarantee of the system.

Ku yaro noqo, sxb. Qaybe, you said? How does he play a role in 'Habraha', as you put it? As for the 93-94 family squabble, you got that wrong as well. The underlying cause was a disagreement over allocation of seats in a political construct that was a left-over from the SNM days. The division worked during war time, but certain constituencies felt it was disadvantageous in peace time. Tuur, Kalluun, and co. painted this disagreement in the same disingenuous light you're now trying to sell here in order to gain positions in a soon-to-fail Aideed gov't. This is attested to by their total presence in Mogadishu at the time rather than with their subclan which controlled significant parts of certain regions at the time. The other side within SL used Tuur's empty declarations of Federalism to demonize their opponents on the battle front as Somaliland-diids. This added greater confusion to what the disagreement was about(in particular for an information-starved diaspora). But as they say, all is fair in love and war... Egal, along with others, put an end to this dilemna with a reorientation of political distribution by the one-man, one vote system you see today. This forced coalition-building and accomodational politics on any political aspirant. It stabilized the system. So, if we're to retell history, let's at least do it accurately! In fairness, there is some truth(though not completely accurate) to your depiction of the direction of certain international winds but I believe this too will pass. For we all know Southern political elites and their inability to solve Somalia's problems. Like the story about Doqonkii lumey oo markii laheley yidhi, maxaad la sacab tumeysaan, barito ba waan lumi So don't count the chickens yet....

LOL... Baashi, You've taken an accurate measuring of the Samatar Professor(as well as Galeydh) and his out-of-touch hopes for being 'someone of consequence' in the Somali political sphere Where your analysis fails is in the option of Siilaanyo for PM. Siilaanyo, along with any of the previous office holders of the SL presidency, could have easily ran away with the entire Somalia presidency since the time of Egal. The Western donors would've bestowed this prize on them in another failed attempt to rid themselves of this Somali quagmire, once and for all. There are actual cases of this being offered(in particular, during Egal's tenure). Even Puntland leadership realizes this, from the time of A. Yusuf to Faroole. Hence, the re-occuring habit on Puntland's part to call for a union of SL/PL in order to claim a new Somali center of gravity. A. Yusuf even went as far as offering the Presidency to Egal(as attested to by his Chief of Staff on a WardheerNews op-ed). The question is why hasn't SL leadership bitten the offering? Well, politicians are driven by selfish interest and SL Presidents, obviously, haven't seen enough of a temptation to switch from a seat at the SL leadership table to a seat at the Mogadishu one. Not to mention the greater danger of that SL leader immediately loosing his constituency once he embarks on that road. And it's precisely the heft/power of that constituency that's made SL leaders a power to be reckoned with in the Somali peninsula. Wadani, Revisionism and crooked presentations of the root causes of Somaliland's creation is a craft well-practiced by our neighboring brothers. What they fail to realize is how this only serves to further distance any meaninful accomodation between the two positions. But we can afford to live in this situation(while not optimal) for another 22 years while continuing to build on the gains made thus far. Can the rest of the former Somalia??

Thank you, Ibtisam! A simplistic approach thus far on the part of our elites (looking from the outside in)....

I hope for all our sakes that you're correct. In the meantime, put me in the loyal skeptic camp. I'm very wary of the Khaleeji element in the talks, knowing their opposition to 'Ardul Somaal' and the considerable purse they wield when they have an agenda in mind....

Che, I stay away from lofty/idealistic notions of 'Somaliweyn'. Already burnt (communally speaking) on that train! What we're talking about here is governance and to quote Oodweyne, the proof is in the pudding. It might hurt your clan pride to accept that observation re:SL, but it's a reality accepted by the larger IC. Now it seems from some of your earlier postings, Che -Guevara;930015 wrote: It's better they rather say, we just want to run away with our piece of the pie and phuck you niggaz. that your resentment is based upon SL separating itself. The explanation is that SL knew before anyone else the deep-seated issues in Southern society(Italian Somalia) and made a calculated decision to spare its population the mayhem that followed for the next 22 years. History has proven this route to be a wise one...

Che, Where have I spewed about Somali unity? I fear, in your frustration, you're mixing different nomads' postings together. Greater Somali unity has historically been cultural, not political(with the exception of periods of existential threats to the whole Somali ethnic group).

Che -Guevara;930015 wrote: Classified...They would have us believed some Somalis evolved and can create a different form of unity though within this new form of unity, others are not welcomed. It's better they rather say, we just want to run away with our piece of the pie and phuck you niggaz. Che, That same situation can be looked at from a different angle. 'Crabs in a barrel' comes to mind. Meaning, I choose, by my own actions, to be at the bottom of the barrel, the joke of the world, wallowing in the mud ..... And when you try to climb out and improve your situation, I'll do all I can to drag you down to keep me company!

I agree with your observation of the 'opposition' parties. Hence, why I paint gov't and opposition under the same brushstroke in my previous postings. But you have yet to tell me of what progress the change of policy achieved? We went from Asst.Sec of State for Africa(where policy is actually formulated for Somalis within the U.S. foreign portfolio) and UK Parliamentary delegations visiting Hargeisa on a regular basis, a lively debate between the Defense and State Dept on whether to recognize SL to this Mogadishu-style constant air travel from one foreign capital to another foreign capital. Where is the beef??

Taleexi, The land your community lives in is not small by any measure(you misunderstood me). But the land controlled by Khaatumo is quite small. That's the differentiation. Meanwhile, Las Anod and other SL administered areas of your community receive whatever developmental assistance Hargeisa distributes for that region. Schools have been built, numerous water-wells and boreholes for livestock dug, and significantly, firearms have been banned within the city, putting an end to the internecine killings that use to happen within the community under the Puntland administration. It's this success in governance that the American administration refers to in that previous post on the 'Dual-Track' approach.

Taleexi and Che, For all the efforts of the international community, I'm deeply skeptical of any rise of governance in Mogadishu. The deep seated issues and mistrust are simply swept under the rug under the beautiful blanket of 'national gov't mirage'. Until those are solved, it will be an exercise in futility. There's no civility 'between' the various communities that inhabit the city (wax ba la isuma dhowrayo!). I give you the following recent story as an example: ________________________________________ Prisoners Hijacked From a Prison Under the National Security Prisons in Somalia 24 March 2013 © 2013 AllAfrica, All Rights Reserved Mar 24, 2013 (Shabelle Media Network/All Africa Global Media via COMTEX) -- Mogadishu (sh.M.Network) prisoners have been hijacked from a prison in Mogadishu .There have been reports that some of the prisoners hijacked were found dead in the city and the others whereabouts are not yet known . Ayuub Abdirahman a prisoner who was recently released from a prison in Mogadishu gave reports to shabelle media and said those young men who have been found dead in banadir region were his in mates in the prison who have been taken from the prison Ayub Abdirahman said that the prisoners were in the same room with him and were taken by members of Somali national security during night time. The prisoners were later found dead in the capital. Ayub Abdirahman added that the men who took the prisoners paid several visits to the prison that week and took prisoners every time they came. He said that they came during the night and took prisoners by force. The prisoners who were hijacked from the government prisons were found dead at some parts of Mogadishu most notably Gubta area in the Region of Deyniile . Recently the prime named a committee in the ranks of the ministerial positions to investigate these ugly acts. The committee had a meeting and the minister for information released a statement confirming there meeting. He said that findings of the committee will be released in a week's time All Africa Global Media

Taleexi, Ok, but don't you see how much further you're falling behind(speaking of the average Jamac and Xaliimo)? A simple look of comparison between the regular photos posted by XX, Ditoore Osman, and Liibaan/Aliya shows how two entities are moving ahead in the developmental game while things remain stagnant in grinding poverty in the shrinking space the Khatuumo admin controls. Meanwhile, the Khaatumo architects hold on to their foreign passports and live the majority of the year in their comfortable diaspora homes(just like you and me, but we're not setting up political states in our defense). Do you see the dichotomy inherent in this situation?

Che, The average child in Dar es Salaam, or Kibera(the largest slum/neighborhood in Nairobi), or Addis(where the poverty is even more severe) all live in the same African poverty. But the difference is: the child in Hargeisa will have a chance to get a rudimentary education without getting blown up by the latest volley between Al Shabaab and SFG/AMISOM. That alone, my friend, is all the difference in the world! I can list many more advantages but I doubt you're interested in a true telling. Taleexi, It's a fair presentation of a potential political setup for Khaatumo yet 20-plus-yr trends put a lie to that vision. How many more generations in that region will the political elite sacrifice to reach a goal that seems no nearer to reach? While many on this Forum wax on about 'recognition of gov'ts' , and opening of Embassies, reality dictates that average families back home would be content with peace, food on the table, primary education for their children, and employment to sustain this basic lifestyle. An accomodation with SL seems the easiest route to attaining this. As you allude to in your previous post, the cruelty of geography makes the region dependent on either SL or PL. So what's the solution?

Apophis;929935 wrote: I'd rather clean a Somali general's boots than lick a xabash Colonel's one. You're still a million times worse than me bro. Dheguhu iyo afku isma maqlayaan! But you are licking a Xabash Colonel's boots (communally speaking). Unless Abdi Iley and his militias are Oromos?!? Your argument has no legs to stand on in the current Somali predicament.

Taleexi, I've followed your evolving viewpoints on SOL for some time. So my question is, given the current realities in the Somali Republic: Wouldn't it make more sense for Khaatumo supporters to come in from the cold and engage in a genuine dialogue with SL about their share of the SL pie, a space where they're well-known and accomodation has shown a 22-yr history of stable governance? After the failed gamble of the Puntland confederacy and the continuous, humiliating sidelining of the community in Mogadishu(Ali Khalif's loss for Parliamentary Speaker being the latest)? Isn't it time to give up pride in the ghosts of mythical Sheikhs and engage in realistic political horse-trading in a system that's worked for 22-yrs and continues to work, with a record of stable governance(by your own admission)? Please give your take on where exactly the problem is....

Ngonge, To sum up the sentiment, the political opposition makes the case of asking what tangible advantages and positive results were gained from pursuing this divergence from previous SL policy (when it comes to inclusion in Southern politics). The current administration has yet to provide a compelling answer to that question.

Ngonge, Here's a piece from one of the opposition websites: ________________________________________ Somaliland Under Intense Pressure Not To Boycott London Conference Writen by Qaran News | Published: Mar 24th, 2013 at 02:08 PM Hargeisa(Qarannews):- Somaliland is coming under intense pressure not to boycott the London conference on Somalia, according to a senior source within the administration of President Ahmed Mohamed Mohamud “Silaanyo”. The source confirms that since President Silaanyo’s return from the visit to Turkey and his announcement that Somaliland will not attend the London conference on Somalia, the government has come under intense internation pressure not to boycott the meeting. According to the senior source within the administration, both the United Kingdom and the United States of America have made it known that Somaliland is expected to attend the conference on Somalia, which is to be chaired by the head of the provisional government in Mogadishu Hassan Sheikh Mohamed. The source also states that the sudden visit of President Silaanyo to the UAE is to hear proposals from the Emirati government which would enable Somaliland to attend the London conference. Ever since Somaliland began direct talks with the various entities concocted in Mogadishu, a stark departure from all previous Somaliland administrations since 1991, the administration of President Silaanyo have been trying to manage events as they spiral out of their control. Whilst the United Kingdom government and the provisional administration in Mogadishu hold talks in that city to set the agenda for the London conference, the administration of President Silaanyo is trying to cope with pressure from the UN, the Gulf, EU and many other world bodies to attend the London conference on Somalia, not as a sovereign and de-facto state, but as one of many factions of the defunct “Somali Republic”. All in all, the source confirms that there had been severe miscalculations in starting direct talks with all the various administration from Mogadishu, because no one in the administration of President Silaanyo asked the question “Where is this heading?”, and now according to the senior source, it is clear where the matter is heading, an administration too weak and incompetent to hold their position, a public unwilling to countenance another union and an international community using whatever means necessary to “glue” the defunct “Somali Republic” back together again. The sources states that this a recipe for another military conflict, unless the administration clarifies its positions, respects the wishes of the people of Somaliland and re-calibrates its strategy and policies. Qarannews

Xaaji Xunjuf;929903 wrote: ^^ He sold you to Mengistu and restored relations with your enemy. Just so he(Jaalle Siyad) could gain a more advantageous hand in defeating the SNM. Some communities have a hard time accepting when they've been used and discarded. That's the irony of the sentiment as same communities nostalgically wax on about how those days were the best?!?

Apophis;929886 wrote: You started the fitna sxb, without the SNM fitna(and to a lesser extent, SSDF shenanigans) Somalia would have been under the benign rule of jaale siyaad. I wouldn't have had any problems with that; I miight have even joined the aiforce and randomly bombed Ethiopian villages in my spare time. Life would have been very good but you id!ots had to ruin it. ;) Or you could've been in jail with the rest of your uncles, which is precisely what Jaalle Siyad did in the late '80s(starting with Gabyow, the Defense Minister at the time) in preparation for formally signing over your lands to the Xabashis. But I guess that inconvenient historical fact wasn't told to you! Revisionism at its best.

Mintid Farayar;929360 wrote: I hope this doesn't ruin the weekend for the anti-Somaliland battalion Oodweyne, I fear what I predicted in the first post(of this thread), reposted above, has come to pass.... I realized after several exchanges that Naxar has no interest in logical reasoning but is rather seeking something to soothe the nerves. We've all attempted to explain the nuanced position to him but for reasons known only to him, he constantly retorts with this nonsense of "Who's more senior, Hillary or the Ambassador?" I fear he might suffer a serious heart attack if someone further informs him that Hillary is now a private citizen and actually, no longer outranks the Ambassador! So in the spirit of charity, let it go and let him find the time to slowly adjust to the current cards as they stand.

Che, But I have 22 yrs as proof. You realize in another 8 years the SL project will be as long lived as the Somaliweyn project There's nothing else to compare to the SL project, sxb. Even the Federal Gov't... No one sweated for it, shed blood for it, toiled in improving it everyday with all its deformities. It was purely a mandated decree from the IC - 'Pharaoh said, so it shall be written, so it shall be done!'. Now if the Mogadishu experiment survives for a decade or longer, and you have population buy-in, then there might be something to discuss. But I'm deeply skeptical, given the usual suspects forced(as opposed to choosing) to cooperate in bringing this project forward. Meanwhile, Puntland continues to serve as a bargaining chip to a greater chair in Mogadishu, so the effort is never made to build the system from the roots on up. That's why you have slow devolution occuring in Puntland ever since the demise of A. Yusuf(AUN). I've showed you the facts of my argument, now show me yours

Che, For once, swallow the foolish pride and face reality with rational logic. Our project is the only Somali political construct that's stood for the past 22 years and only keeps growing in number of constituencies as well as territory occuppied. That right there shows you the difference. As Special Rep for Somalia, Amb. Swan stated a few days ago: "The U.S. and many other international partners, certainly, have great respect for the efforts made by the Somaliland people over a number of years in terms of maintaining a high degree of stability in the Somaliland territory, in terms of impressive gains on the governance front including holding a number of elections that have been of a high standard and certainly also with respect to efforts that have been made by that population to improve their economy and livelihoods." This project is real. Definitely more real than anything else Somalis have put together in the last 22 yrs in the political sphere.