Originally posted by Kashafa: Not really. I think she's talking about a different type of darkness: -The millions of babies killed every year. I think the enlightened call it abortion. Infinitely more babies die in lands where abortion is illegal. And infinitely more abortions occur NATURALLY -- called spontaneous miscarriages. What's your point? -rapes, homicides, and armed robbery that happen by the second It is true that rapes (widely under reported -- everywhere actually) occur in an unacceptable density in the West, same for homicides and armed robberies. It is also true that no culture, religion or race is impervious to pernicious outcomes of rapes, homocides and armed robberies. They're common to all humans. But here is the deal. The West has independent, functioning and competent Judicial system that punishes rapists, murderers and armed robbers. To lesser or greater degree, the same can not be said for much of the Non-Western world. -economy that obscenely enriches the rich; The poor move upwardly into the dirt poor category. Not entirely true. The rich always have a head start. So its not fair race from the get go. Are you familiar with Zeno's paradox (I know it's logical fallacy but for arguendo lets assume it to hold). Wealth is infinite (and relative)... the rich having a head start will always and inexorably get richer and richer. If they are competent and attentive they can stay ahead of the curve for good. The poor starting at a point further behind has the insuperable hurdle of overcoming not only the sum difference in wealth between he and the rich but also wealth concurrently accumulated by the rich while the poor was also getting richer. Of course this doens't mean the poor won't catch up to the rich, it's very possible. But it's unreasonable to expect the rich not to keep on getting richer and richer. Having said there is unparalleled oppurtunities in the West for the poor and disenfranchised for social mobility. I know of Somalis who came to Canada 10 or 15 years ago with nothing but the clothes on their backs and now own their businesses and $300k homes. You know the best part of it all? They achieveed all that based not on their religion, status or race/clan/tribe but based on their hardwork. THAT my friend is as good as it gets! -The trinity of drugs, alcohol, and hookers(and their pimps). Ah! The ubiquituous Western lasciviousness and moral decadence moan. I have a deal for you. Find me a land that provides what the morally, spiritually inferior West provides me -- personal freedoms, social mobility, peace, free health care etc -- minus of course drugs, alcohol, hookers and I'll move there in a heartbeat and sing its praises. Do we have a deal?

Originally posted by Thinker: blues were defeated at home for the first time in 59 games Under Sir Jose Maurinho- against the catalans (barcelona) midweek.. Viva ze bluess But we're back in action and in a full swing. Chelsea trashed W. Albion 2-1 with 10 men!!! Arjen Robben sent off for innocuous fake 2-footed lunge (the poor boy can't injure a fly!), again the ref was disgrace. Barca, YOU'RE NEXT!

Kheyr, If it makes you feel better, go ahead and use all the pejorative labels at your discretion against me and all that disagree with you. We all gotta do whatever gets us through the day and puts us to sleep at night, right?. So do what you have to do, it's your prerogative! Where you do yourself no good is your outright contempt for other grating opinions. What gives you the right to say what others can and can't say? Isn't this an open forum, as long as house rules are obeyed, all goes. If you're distressed by what others say, relieve is mouse-click away. You do know where the BACK button is right? Use it! Originally posted by Kashanre: Ayaan justifies her anti-Islamic stance because her family forced her into an arranged marriage that was not necessarily sanctioned by the Islamic religon I believe Ayaan Hirsi rejects Islam all together, questions even the Quran, I don't. Neither do I blame Islam for what muslims do as Islam is, at least in spirit, against clanism/tribalism. Yet somalis (99%+ muslim) and many muslims are clanists/tribalists. Also, I find it quite extraordinary how those nomads along with Ibtisam failed to make the distinction between the religion (Islam) and the worshipper (Muslim). Actually I DO. Obviously you and other jaundiced folks here don't. I don't blame jewism for what jews are doing to muslims in Palastine, that is not REAL jewism. Same with america, I don't hold them responsible for the baleful results of their cavalier gun-ho and hegemonist policies, that is not REAL americanism. Don't you agree with me?

Originally posted by Modesty: Everyone who lives in the darkness of kafir lands should visit a muslim country, Modesty, I live in Canada. I presume it a kafir land, right? What is this darkness of kafir lands you talk about? Is it: -the free universal health care system -top class education system -state of the art and modern infrastructure -economy that provides jobs, invents and innovates. -social mobility You can love your country, aknowledge West is not perfect but for the love God don't lie to make yourself feel better. their culture and faith is so untainted by kafirism. Somalis in the west are so different, I just noticed the major difference in their cultures, it seems the ones in the west take the western individualistic culture, but the ones here masha'Allah it makes me so proud of my country. I love Somalia! Tell me this: why did those Allah fearing muslim somalis that you are so proud of come to my house in bright day light, brandishing automatic AK-47 and forcefully expell me? Why do they to this day are unable to get together and overcome their petty differences for the LOVE of Allah? Or maybe their faith in ALlah is only skin deep, superficial. I don't know maybe you can help me understand. Like I said there is nothing wrong with praising your people. But for God's sake don't brush under the carpet all that is wrong. You're not doing anyone good service. Problems won't go away on their own, eventualy they would have to be dealt with. The sooner the better. BTW, somalia's problems aren't religious. It's qabiil and ignorance.

Originally posted by Paragon: JUST TAKE A SIMPLE STEP AND YOU WILL BE SURPISED HOW FULFILLING THIS IS.. If you could reach and save one life, I think you've done the world a ton of good. It doesn't much, times or money wise.

Originally posted by AbdulNoor: Our reasoning, answers are based on what we believe, to say to us discuss without Quranic/Islamic view is irrelevant, since our outlook on how we live, our code of life is influenced by our faith. Goodness gracious! What are you on man? Seriously. Helloooo! Are you there?!?!?! Are we connected?! Hellooo! Where did I stipulate what sources one should refer to? I re-read my original post a 1001 times, I can't for the life of me see how you could've read anything remotely alike. I'm stumped. Thus worship of Allah influences our manners, our careers/education, how we spend our time, how we think, how we live, ect. I only wish that was true but reality says otherwise. Somalis worship Allah, don't they? Did Allah tell us to kill each other over qabiils or practice FGM? NO!

Viking: so what else are you looking for? Speculation? Analogical reasonning around the subject? Personal takes. Worshing God could mean different things to different people. In fact it does since no two people see everything alike in life. I only wanted people to share their thoughts. In short fulfill the purpose of a fora like this: DISCUSS! In its place we got inundated with a galore of gratuitous character aspersions and trivialities to divest away from the question raised. Originally posted by Abraar: SB, Though engaging in critical thinking (assessing, evaluating, questioning etc.) is very much encouraged in Islam in hopes of attaining knowledge and becoming enlightened, there's nonetheless clear boundaries imposed on the one who believes in Allah and submits to His will. What boundary is that? Furthermore, if one possesses that firm belief in his heart, there cannot be any room for suspicion, doubt and questioning. With all due respect, that is facile arguement. If you have no doubt it could only mean 1 of two things. Either you did doubt at one point in your life and through contemplation and exploration have achieved your current doubtless state; or you haven't given your current faith more than a passing thought, you believe it and have no doubt through inertia, coercion or disinterest. In other words, the sunnah is only the application of the Qur'an. Therefore, one cannot accept the Qur'an as guidance for mankind whilst simultaneously rejecting it's application. No. In other words what you're saying is the words of Allah are not enough? Isn't that what you're REALLY saying? Like I said before I reject the Sunnah, I explained my reasons. I'm not trying to dissuade you from adhering to the Sunnah. It is your right to worship anything you please. Just like it is my right to worship who I please -- God and God only. All in all, you have every right to believe what you want to believe and to follow which ever path you so choose to follow, and it's not our intention to impose our belief system on you under any circumstance. Ok, the first thing you said we agree on. It's not befitting of any rational and respectful human being to attack others' belief system and what they hold to be sacred. Resorting to blasphemy and degrading the scholars of this religion (read: your postings in the Islamic section) while continuously criticizing and questioning the motives of the believers is something we will not tolerate, nor does it convey whatever point you are stuggling to convey (though I suspect you have no point to get across at all). Now, abraar, isn't what you write above contradiction of what you said earlier (that I can follow whatever path I choose)? Or is it mean I can believe whatever I want as long as I keep my mouth shut? It's damned if I do, damned if I don't. If I disclose my beliefs I'm scolded, if I keep my mouth shut I'm accused or suspected of harboring ulterior motives. Nothing I do will satify your ilk. How else can I say I don't rely on the Sunnah? Through sign language? Encrypted messages? In numbers and math equations? You parochially accuse me of blasphemy without outlining or explaining what I said that was blasphemous. So I won't say much on that. With regard to 'degrading' scholars, that is a lie of course. I degrade only those that deserve it and I'm unapologetic about it. When a Muslim Scholar (Saudi Arabian) says black woman are less than humans (which happened), I would tell him to go f himself. When another prominent muslim scholar says (again already happened) Jews are sons of pigs and apes and they should all be exterminated, guess what I will not have any of it. You and others know very well my criticism of muslim scholars doesn't extend to your run-of-the-mill wadaad of the local dugsi. My criticism and invectives are reserved for the big shots who abuse the trust and power they wield. How can you say to me I can't criticise a muslim scholar who says MY mother, sisters, aunts, grandma etc are less than their arab counterparts? HOW CAN YOU? Then again with this God like veneration of these wadaads (the good excluded of course), my charge SOME of you DO worship them gains more validity.

Ducaqabe, Either the Culema are fallible or not. If fallible then there is no dissonance, me writing what you agree with shouldn't bother you. If infallible then again there should be no dissonance too since you know my stance on the issue. However none of this justifies how this topic has veered off tracks ever since. All thanks to people who are either insecure in their faith or are unable to constructively engage in discussions. Saayid, Weren't you the same guy who was calling for blood letting of apocalyptic proportions by forcefully and violently converting nonmuslims. Didn't I and others aske you to clarify what you meant. I succinctly recall you clamoring for war, violence, death and destruction. While on that blood lusting binge you sported the Imaam with sword avatar. Remember? Every time you were asked to explain yourself, you turned tail and ran. In my view nothing I said pales in comparison to the hateful, vile, objectionable material you posted in this site. And you ask for my censorship for what exactly? Remind me again? Asking the question: what is the purpose of life? Saying man is fallibe? Does PKB ring a bell? Amelia, Before unhesitatingly reaching for my closest jugular vein, perhaps you should give me the benefit of the doubt! My comment to Kashanare was directed at how he was using the Quran in place of his own words. If you scroll back to to first couple pages, you'll note many people have said the same thing. I didn't pick on any of them because I didn't disagree with that particular Quranic injection. Now, why do you think I reserved 'how sad' comment for Kashanare only? I suggest you read what transpired before I wrote that comment. My intention was to elicit discussion. If the purpose of life is worshiping Allah, what did that entail? I was seeking IDEAS not Quranic verses posted verbatim! In a discussion board, you discuss, argue, debate. Meaning you exchange ideas and POVs in the hope you'll learn something.

What happened to the original thread dealing with this story?

Originally posted by Sayyid: Subxanallaah, repent to your lord! What you just utter out of your uncontrolled mouth was right on disbelief! I told you this guy, even doubted that he was ever Somali, finally atleast he has poven it to us! Alla illaahiyo soo hanuuni, illeyn adiga keligaa ayaa huniiniye ehe! I wanted to be pristinely clear so there can be no misunderstandings. Take whatever you want from it.

Originally posted by Amelia: SB , you’re a funny guy and sometimes you make good points. However, this consistent belittlement of Muslims is rather suspicious. I mean, no matter what you say you blv in, doubts creep in when one ‘sees differently’ with every topic discussed under Islam. Also, whether ur a Muslim or not is really no-body’s business on this site… these are mere discussions… but it would be good if u gave Islam its due because a lot of norms and values in Islam are considered admirable by non-Muslims… which is something I don’t see you do (I could be wrong as I haven’t read everything u wrote on these boards). You are right, I'm harsh in my opinions of muslims sometimes. That is not because I got a chip on my shoulder rather it is that I expect the best from fellow muslims. The natural state of things is doing well. There is no excuse for failure (unless its beyond your control). For a student, that would mean getting As and Bs. When the student gets straight As he's praised and rightly so. Alternately when gets Cs and Ds he gets earfull, again rightly so. Same applies to everything else in life. Police officers and soldiers don't get citations for doing just their work -- what is expected -- but for heroic acts that go beyond the call of duty. It is simple common sense. I also have no problem with a little of bit of suspicion and skepticism. That is good in some ways as it means at least you're thinking, you got your eyes open. Too many people walk through life with their eyes fully shut or half shut. But NOTHING and I mean NOTHING justifies sifting through other's trash cans to gather dubios supposedly incriminating innuendos to smear others. NOTHING! That is not only going beyond the pale but morally reprehensible behaviour. It also means complete surrender of the ability to substantively reason and argue.

Originally posted by Khayr: If one believes that Evolution is True and Creationism False , then they have left the fold of Religion. SB, has stated his position that Evoluation > Creationism, Creationism=False; along with Johnny. Fine by me. I left the fold of religion... your religion that is (not that I ever was part of your religion -- ie the earth is flat, secularism is evil, the west is the den of all that is bad etc). Now, would you leave me to my religion? To each his own way! If one believes that their Opinion is the APEX of INTELLIGENCE and better then what Ulama say, what is in the Quran and Sunnah, then they are a MUSHRIK. FYI, my opinions and intelligence is better than anything the Ulema says. I don't worship Imaam Bukhari either, so no Sunnah for me. Quran is my only guide. You are right, you and I don't belong to the same religion. the Ulama are sacred to us because they are the Inheritors of the prophets. With all due respect, there are no inheritors of the prophet still living today, so I don't get what you're on about inheritors of the prophets. My praise to you for your honesty. At least you admit you worship man (I view the Ulema sacred). And if I'm not mistaken what you said above is pure SHIRK.

Originally posted by Honesita: Salaamu Aleeykum SB....I really think the best reply to you was given by brother/sister Ashabul AlKahf....Allah him self tells you in the Quran to ask those of knowledge if you don't know...!! I'm aware of that dependent you only ask and not entrust your entire learning in the hands of fallible man who may or may not be purveying corrupted reading. ....how dare you compare a Muslim brother that teaches about Islam and calls to Allah to Dump and Dumper.... How dare I? Two reasons: 1. because I can 2. what he said is the stuff you expect from dumb and dumber characters. Why should I have to put up with Wadaads who say ****** and ignorant things like that wadaad? Because he is wadaad? Any wadaad must earn my respect through his deeds not title. No one said that 'Ulama are infallible..... Didn't you just question my criticism of a wadaad? In an essense saying he is beyond reproach. If the Ulema are not infallible, then they're open to criticism. Where due of course. If you question those who criticise the Ulema, like you did relating to me, then you are saying they are indeed infallible. Make up your mind, you seem confused as evinced by your dissimilar statements. I agree with the fact that many so called shuyukh today are not differentiating between Islam and culture, however all that does not mean we can disrespect them and call them dump…!! Remember the greatest people in the world after the prophets peace be upon them are the 'Ulama.....!! See! Once again you're saying they're infallible. Why should they not be held responsible when they screw up unless you see them as beyond reproach. Like I said earlier, you need to work out your confusion.

Originally posted by Kashanre: What's amazing is the that, even though "we" never go after "them", they are always looking for a way to antogonize us. We do not go after them because we know what will be their end, so could they baiting us mean they are not completely sure of how and why their deviation of the right path occurred? Would like to explain yourself? Just come out with it and say whatever you're surreptitiously implying.

Originally posted by Miskiin-Macruuf- Waala ogyahay inaad su'aashaan dan kale ka leedahay. I fail to see what exactly you're assailing against here! Of what relevance is whether a question is contrived or honest? Hadaadan diin lahayn, adigee ku jirtaa. I didn't know inaa diin lahayn, would like to also tell me where I was born, my birthday and my favourite meal? Thanks in advance. Wax la yiraahdo "personal" ma jirto. Said who? You? You think and make decisions for yourself only... what others believe, do or say is none of your business! Originally posted by Socod_badne: Waala ogaa inaad diinlaawe ahayd, oo wax badan ayaa is qarisay, oo shib lagaa ahaa. Golaha kale [other Soomaali forums] ee Soomaalida ayaa ka qaraabataa adigoo Rabigeena iyo Nabigeena caay, aflagaado iyo wixii lamid ah ku haayo. [Hadaadan ismoodin in lagula socon, think again.] Intaas dhan waala soconay. Oo intaa banaanka isa soo dhigeysay ayaa la sugaaye. Maanta adigaa barxada isku soo dhigtay to humble, unsuspecting SOL forumers aad isku qarin jirtay. Inaadan diin lahayn waxaas kor ku qoran ayaa dhigaayo. Waxaaba la yaabi jiray kuwa inta ku jiro waligood sidii qof "Muslim" camal kula dhaqmi jiray, adigoo sidii jees jees camalna Rabigooda iyo Kitaabkiis ugu jeesteen jirtay mar walba. Oh shoot I'm exposed, I better run for a hide now! Diinta waaka baxdee, adigoo raali ah, inoo daa diinteena aad ku tumaneysid. What do you mean by 'ku tumaneysid'?

Originally posted by ALexus.: [qb] Why answer this idiotic member? Alexus, darling, why don't you be a sport and unburden me of my idiocy heh? Go ahead and hurl more invectives at me... I love it! Originally posted by Johnny: ...Whatever the purpose of life might be, am sure that it is not threatening SB or his professors with helfire. You mean A. Lexus is eschatologist? :eek: Didn't see that one coming. Boy o boy they must be right when they say life is full of surprises.

Originally posted by Kashanre: Socod Badne Is this topic your current classroom discussion? Your trend is very noticiable sxb. Mark my words sxb, your professor's words meelna kaama saareeso. I don't go to school! By that I mean I don't go to accredited school. I attend Mickey Mouse University... as a prof. [quot]The purpose of life is to worship the lord that created you. That is the purpose of life whether you believe it or not, accept it or not. How sad! Now you're left with spitting cosmic debris?

What happened here? How did my innocent and pristinely unmistakable thread end getting derailed so far off tracks? Focus people! I asked about your thoughts on the Purpose of Life not post tragic news stories. I should've been more perspicuous and stated I want you nomad's personal opinions not standard text book replies. Thanks but I've heard or read them all... that is why I've asked you all to share your personal takes so maybe I can learn something new. Lets try it again: according to your personal opinion what is the Purpose of Life? Is it intrinsic or extrinsic? Share. Originally posted by Mumia Abu-Jamal: Now we are waiting to hear Socod badne and Ibtisam. State clearly what is your position on this very important issue. You'll have to wait a little longer. Of course, always after the ladies. I'll give you my take once Ibtisam cracks open her chestnut.

He said, if the woman you marry, reer boqor ay dhaleen, (ie. she never cooked) its the husband's job to cook for her or find someone who can cook for her but if you marry jaariyad from her father's house then it's her job to cook for you. I'm sorry but that was the dumbest thing I've heard in a loooooooong time. This dude would make Dumb and Dumber look shining geniuses! Originally posted by Katrina: What about those wadaado who take their culture values and mix it up with the diin and they can't sepearte them. You highlight one of the aspects of relying on Wadaads for your knowledge that perturbs me most. We muslims have strong tendency of venerating our Shiekhs/Imaams without a shred of due reservation. The majority of us would rarely consider the possibility that a wadaad maybe pushing an agenda (his or others) or he is under qualified or he is propagating a particular sects view... we give every shiekh/imaam, prima facie unwarranted favarouble view. I think that is just wrong and the wadaad you cited above proves it.

I concede this question presumes purpose to life but lets leave that to abeyance for now. Is the purpose of life intrinsic or extrinsic? In other words is it what is assigned to us by the world or is it what we make of it? Your inputs nomads.

Originally posted by Khayr: So if an Alim/Islamic Scholar doesn't agree with Evolution-Will you find another one? Yes I would. Anyone who doesn't accept Evolution as a fact of life is missing few screws in the head. Same goes for anyone who believes the earth is flat. And if an Alim doesn't think that men and women are equal -Will you find another one? No because men and women are NOT equal. Are you suggesting that your 'Reasoning' and 'Judgements' trumps that of an EXPERT? Always. My reasoning is always flawless and dependable. What about yours?

Allow me to impart to you young ones my hard learned experiences in the game (I'm 65 yrs young, so listen up!). Women respect boldness. Audacity signifies trustworthiness to a woman. A man who can say to a woman what's on his mind on first day is a man the woman can trust. And trust is the name of the game. Without it nothing can grow. To test this, do me this favour. Go up to a girl you like and tell her how fine she looks, you dig her and wanna throw your leg over her. You're prolly gonna get slapped on the face. Don't worry about that its involuntarily, reflexive reaction she didn't really mean to do it. Mark my words, that girl that just slapped you will, because she is surprised by your daringness, likely give you her digits, just to see if you're for real. But what REALLY works is being a gentlemen. Not a nice guy, nice guys finish last. Instead sincerity, no BS, no beating around the bush. She and you both know what you're after. So tell her the truth, that you want to take her out, get her flowers and presents the full monty. Be strong and decisive. Those are my Golden Nuggets, lock 'em up in a trusted vault. Good luck to ya'all!

Originally posted by Katrina: SB, my view is we muslims need to take ownership when it comes to islamic knowledge but unfortunately there isn't enough hours in the day to accomplish everything and if there are those that are more knowledgable use 'em. Regardless of their stand or angle, we should use critical thinking in every aspect of our life. The prophet said, who taught me a letter I became his slave. Therefore the alims have a place in Islam. Dr. Jackson said one of the problems with muslims today is we believe there is only one way to do Islam. Yet in the time of the prophet (PBUH)people interpreted his revelations differently, prayed differently and read the Quraan differently. I hear ya, it's just that I'm so damn smart I have no use for Islamic speakers/experts. I have read the entire Sahih Bukhari collection backwards in Uzbek while hopping on 1 leg and playing chess... do you think I need any one to teach me anything? I don't think so. Just kiddin! Seriously, I understand your position. A commendable one. Most muslims (not the poor illiterate 3rd worlders but privileged ones) possess inadequate fundamental knowledge about their religion. That is really inexcusable at this day and age. All I'm really saying is a muslim should be active participant, not rely on word of mouth. Best way of ensuring that is to personally go to the sources if unable than selectively screen your interlucators.

When you ladies wear diracs, gogarads and skirts... isn't wearing macawis just a stone's throw away? I mean its not like you're donning shorts, is it? Don't think so.

Originally posted by sheherazade: Someone told me today that u're young and as such I should give you a break. Lying again? Remember, once a liar an always possible liar. And when you promise recesses from imagined bouts, I have all I need to know about your current mental status. Delusional! Walaahi, I can break it down for and your forefathers if you like and show you up. See! What in friggin' hell is that suppose to mean. Not only is it unintelligible but the link between ME and my forefathers is mystifying. What do my forefathers have to do with any of this? I suggest you go to Admin if you have a grievance. I told you already I have no intention of going to the Admin, I have no reason to. Or is this your signal you're backing out? Be magnanimous and do it in honourable fashion. I will not drag this to further your tantrum in the limelight. Ok, I get the signals loud and clear. I'll let you off the hook. Remember not to start shid you can't finish. And if wanna besmirch someone, don't leave dinosaur sized footprints that come back to bite you on your behind.