Mrs. Lee, keep it up you got the upper hand but your feeble attempt to back down was a sour blot on your record! Have faith, be strong... God willing you'll prevail and redeem your blemishes over that weiner Diig la'ow or whatever he calls himself. Love the new avatar btw!

Even if somalis are mixed people, no one wants to claim them... why would they?

Originally posted by Castro: If followers of one religion are constantly associated with violence, well it behooves us to understand why and to do so we must look at the numbers and recent history in context. Castro, muslims in general are prone to violence. Evidence for that is plentiful, refuting that charge is futile in this light. As well as be active participants in many ensuing conflicts. However, the reason is not just because they're muslim or Islam, that is pure unadultrated bigotry. Deprivation, illiteracy, gross underdevelopment, inequities and many other pernicious social ills are the causes, NOT Islam. Any time you hear someone blame a race, religion or culture for percieved or real social ills, note to yourself that such characterizations has very little support from supportable arguements. Another reason may be that it's best to trump up accusations of violence in order to justify invading countries (for oil or other reasons). Here I disagree. It is cheaper for the US to buy ALL of Iraq's proven oil reserves than it was to invade and stay in the country afterwards. Considerably less cheaper both the human toll and cost after invasion stay over. And if the need for oil determined whether to invade other countries or not, why hasn't the US invaded: Canada, Russia, Britian, Venuzuala (spelling), Nigeria, Iran, Kuwait... all major oil producers. Why invade Iraq only; why even stop there! Iraq invasion was a shot across the bows to the US's foes. Namely China and Bin Laden's people. It was demonstration, a tour de force, of US power and resolve. There is no better, more effective way to show what you're capable of then actual demostrate it. Everyone NOW knows what the US is capable of if tested. And no one will dare cross it's path. The outcome of Iraq war was predictable -- US victory. The rout of Iraqi army and subsequent smashing into smithreens of remanant units was foreclosed fact. The only disappointment was how the promised awe and shock tranmuted into aw shuked... a cauldron of madness, heartwrenching mess.

Originally posted by makalajabti: Makalajbti is the name of a small village in central Ethiopia, I have good memories from this place hence my nickname. Been badanaa! No village remotely sounding or nominally similar to makalajabti exists in Ethiopia... and as others have said your moniker is highly suggestive, laden with subliminal messages whether intentional or not.

Originally posted by Northerner: Why can I not feel sorrow for both Muslims and non-Muslims who have been through or going through an ordeal? This is not a one dimensional debate. Go ahead and please highlight how both are not possible. But please do not contradict something you have said earlier as this only makes it easier for me to refute. I'm strapped for time, so I'll be very brief. You wanna know why YOU can't hold the ideas at the same time? The reason is they're mutually contradictory! If you feel sorrow for other's suffering based solely on their condition and not anything else, you can't at the same time say you'll empathise with others in anguish because they're muslims. The two don't square well against each other. I can't help you any further than that. My point was, if you are asking me not to feel sorry for a population who are white and Muslim then why are you appreciative of a people of the same colour who happen to be non-Muslim? Now before you make the assumption that I do not like non-Muslim white people (some exceptions), I’m simply highlighting the short-comings in your argument here. Would you say the same if it had happened to the Canadians? Ie why bother with them? Or is that ‘different’? The what did they (Bosnians) do for me argument will not suffice. Not quite sure what you're asking me here. I'll see if I can later, maybe I'll respond then. Also, your opinion of the west being less tribalistic, more idealistic and value human life more than the people in the 3rd world is another dicussion. Please start the appropriate thread. I disagree. Why don't you start since you're the one disagreeing with common fact! If I’m not mistaken you said Bosnian (Muslim Bosnians) are not our brothers and sisters. I asked you to prove it, if you cant then concede. My proof is the simple fact that they Muslims. Not everyone agrees that being muslim is what predicates kinship, so you're supposed 'proof' is highly subjective not to mention impalatable. Again, Bosnians aren't my brothers by blood or even by nationality.

Originally posted by ibtisam: ^^^what is your point; he is not the only one who advocates this point. To highlight his call and proclivity for violence against civilians to acheive his end goals. Which you have requested a 'proof'... notwithstanding the fact 'proofs' don't exist outside of mathematics, courts of law and logic circles, I did the only thing I could which was to present to you evidence. What conclusions you draw from such evidence is entirely your prerogative. But he has denied being the masterminded of Sept 11. He DID. Here is the transcript of his ADMISSION VIDEO: Transcript of bin Laden statement 'It came to my mind to punish the oppressor' Posted: October 29, 2004 7:35 p.m. Eastern © 2004 WorldNetDaily.com You American people, my speech to you is the best way to avoid another conflict about the war and its reasons and results. I am telling you security is an important pillar of human life. And free people don't let go of their security, contrary to Bush's claims that we hate freedom. He should tell us why we didn't hit Sweden for instance. It's known that those who hate freedom don't have dignified souls like the 19 who were blessed. But we fought you because we are free people, we don't sleep on our oppression. We want to regain the freedom of our Muslim nation as you spill our security, we spill your security. I am so surprised by you. Although we are in the fourth year after the events of Sept. 11, Bush is still practicing distortion and misleading on you, and obscuring the main reasons and, therefore, the reasons are still existing to repeat what happened before. I will tell you the reasons behind these incidents. I will be honest with you on the moment when the decision was taken to understand. We never thought of hitting the towers. But after we were so fed up, and we saw the oppression of the American Israeli coalition on our people in Palestine and Lebanon, it came to my mind, and the incidents that really touched me directly goes back to 1982 and the following incidents. When the U.S. permitted the Israelis to invade Lebanon with the assistance of the 6th fleet. In these hard moments, it occurred to me so many meanings I can't explain, but it resulted in a general feeling of rejecting oppression and gave me a hard determination to punish the oppressors. While I was looking at the destroyed towers in Lebanon, it came to my mind to punish the oppressor the same way and destroy towers in the U.S. to get a taste of what they tasted, and quit killing our children and women. We didn't find difficulty dealing with Bush and his administration due to the similarity of his regime and the regimes in our countries. Which half of them are ruled by military and the other half by sons of kings and presidents and our experience with them is long. Both parties are arrogant and stubborn and the greediness and taking money without right and that similarity appeared during the visits of Bush to the region while people from our side were impressed by the U.S. and hoped that these visits would influence our countries. Here he is being influenced by these regimes, royal and military. And was feeling jealous they were staying for decades in power stealing the nations' finances without anybody overseeing them. So he transferred the oppression of freedom and tyranny to his son, and they call it the Patriot Law to fight terrorism. He was bright in putting his sons as governors in states, and he didn't forget to transfer his experience from the rulers of our region to Florida to falsify elections to benefit from it in critical times. We agreed with Mohamed Atta, God bless him, to execute the whole operation in 20 minutes. Before Bush and his administration would pay attention and we never thought that the high commander of the U.S. armies would leave 50 thousand of his citizens in both towers to face the horrors by themselves when they most needed him, because it seemed to distract his attention from listening to the girl telling him about her goat butting was more important than paying attention to airplanes butting the towers which gave us three times the time to execute the operation thank God. Your security is not in the hands of Kerry or Bush or al-Qaida. Your security is in your hands. Each state that doesn't mess with our security has automatically secured their security. Source As for his other attacks, I have issues with it as i don't agree with the random killing of civilians, undeniable it is a popular opinion amongst some Muslims So what? And may I add cherry-picking deeds of others is a luxury at the behest of those lacking moral rectitude (I'm not saying you are one BTW). One doesn't need to know the Nazis stand on Euthanasia to dismiss them as lunatic and evil punch... or S. African apartheid government's treatment of other minorities to be convinced that aparthaid is immoral and deplorable system. You have enough evidence, from horse's mouth sorta to speak, to make a tentative decision. No need for further 'proof' or evidence, you have enough. So stop squirming dear Ibtisaam.

Originally posted by ibtisam: And we have no prove that is what he intents, as far as i am aware, Bin laden is someone who is unhappy about certain things in the world and his home country. who is being framed for few other attacks! When one makes up his mind there is no need for evidence or proof. However, if one ditches all pre-concieved impressions of this man and looks at the evidence and his deeds... undeniable picture of degenerate megalomaniac emerges. Here are few of his words, ther are oodles more if you're interested. [qb]5. Using violence to achieve your goals [/b] "You cannot defeat the heretic with this book alone," bin Laden has said, referring to the Koran. "You have to show them the fist." (Quoted in The Washington Post, Sept. 18, 2001.) "The ruling to kill the Americans and their allies -- civilians and military -- is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it, in order to liberate the al-Aqsa Mosque and the holy mosque [Mecca] from their grip, and in order for their armies to move out of all the lands of Islam, defeated and unable to threaten any Muslim." (From "Jihad Against Jews and Crusaders," 23 February 1998)

Originally posted by Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar: I reiterate accusing others having other nicknames is against the rules now. It affects that person's character, as well as degenerating the quality of the forum. The hypocrisy oozing out of that glop stultifies to the point of choking and grasping for air! ... need a fresh air, someone please help!!!

Originally posted by ibtisam: what possible common share value can you have with someone you don't know, Just few (that he already expressed): 1. Destroying America and the West 2. Returning to 7th century arabian life style 3. Reconquista of Spain and other former muslim lands that were not muslims in the first place. 4. Establishment of Sharia law everywhere muslims live 5. Using violence to achieve your goals ... that is all of Osama "conquistador" Bin Laden's clamorings I can recall for now.

Originally posted by Castro: quote:Originally posted by naden: A most thorough coverage of the topic. Naden, does that mean you're ready for your beating now?

Ibtisaam, It seems again we're having communication breakdown... I only got snippets of what you sent over the airwaves. I heard you say: it's good for you being defensive... that don't make any sense :confused: Try again, this time speak loud and clear... signing out... somewhere over the Atlantic.

Originally posted by Ahura: And you're right, most of the smart ppl I know are dyslexic. Not entirely true.... I'm not smart but sorrily dyslexic. To the question asked: I agree with others it has to be my PC and cable connection... cell phone comes close 2nd.

Lol!... apparantly rarity is nature's most potent aphrodesiac.

Originally posted by Southern Hospitality: and you are kinda behind, we already have porn stars.... :rolleyes: Where... I mean what's their names, just give me one name I can google. If you feel shy, PM me their names...

S-Hospitality, Anti-Bullshidh Spray Originally posted by Scarlet: SB, I wouldn't be surprised if you are. Kooleey, I see where you're going with this, I aint gonna follow you there. But answer my question: if someone dislikes something strongly, does it mean they see it in themselves?

Originally posted by Scarlet: I found out some time ago that people hate in others what they hide in themselves (usually). REALLY? I mean really really? If I extremely dislike fags, is it mean I'm closet fag myself? Isn't that what you're saying above, koooooooooleey?

^^Not to mention foooooooooolxume badhan Seriously, they're ok. Certainly not mediocre like some I won't mention.

^^It was a gift from above though... the Gerard give away. What was he thinking!! And he did the same thing during Euro2004.

Originally posted by AbdulNoor: Salaamu Lah How do u refute this claim though? quote: “There can be no pleasure in saying so, but the facts point to one conclusion. Whether in Africa or America, Haiti or Great Britain, blacks are poor because they are, for the most part, incapable of lifting themselves from poverty. Africa is poor, just as Harlem is poor, because it is populated by Africans.†By showing non-blacks were or are in poverty. Which is not very hard to do. Lock stock and barrel Next

Originally posted by ibtisam: you people argue about everything; :rolleyes: True say. Funny how you're always in the eye of the storm heh. A friendly advice: when shidh hits the fan, take cover!!! I’m going to ask you guys a question: if these people where not Muslims would you still dislike BUSH, Sharon, Milosevic: This question goes for all of you; First, I don't dislike Bush as much as Sharon and Milosevic. Sharon, unequivocally dislike him for what he did. In particular forthe raids of Palastinian villages he commanded in 1953 and of course the Lebanon invasion. Ditto, for Milosevic too. SB: it is what he did to other humans, that makes me hate them, regardless of whether they are Muslims or not, they are human being and deserve to be treated like everyone else, they have families who care for them, and who want to see justice. Good for you!

Originally posted by Northerner: SB The Bosnians and Arabs my not be BLACK AFRICANS but they are Muslims. This is the reason why you should feel sorrow for them. End of, full stop. And if they, Bosnians, aren't muslims you're saying we shouldn't feel sorrow for them? It is also natural to feel sorrow for the millions of Ruwandans who suffered the Genocide (not officially a Genocide) in 1994 (i think) this is because they simply suffered Will you make up your mind? You just said above that YOU'RE empathizing with is Bosnians for their faith. Which is it that elicits your empathy? Human suffering or the faith of the victims. You can't have it both ways! If you can't see HOW you can't believe both at the same time, I'll be happy to show you. But first make up your mind. Why did they take you in, protect your human right (fleeing a war), make you a citizen (as you do not have a country), give you free education etc etc when you are obviously not white??? No, I'm not white. But predominantly white society DID take me in and gave me a new chance in life. Why? Many reasons. They're far less tribalistic, more idealistic. Value life and human dignity more than the developing world. Have human rights not only constitutionally ingrained but socially inoculated. And many more, what's your point? Nothing, but does that mean we should'nt be sympathetic to their cause? This is the kafir's way of thinking. The Kafir way of thinking is, evidently, more sympathetic to human suffering then the Ummah/Somali way of thinking. Me, and many other somalis living in the diaspora are living and breathing prove of this assertion. Prove it You asked me to prove that Bosnians aren't my brothers/sisters. I don't have to: one can't prove what doesn't exist. You made the claim of existance what doesn't exist, the onus is on YOU to prove/support your claim.

Rahima, Very snarky there our dear doyenne! Originally posted by Abu-Jamal: You are fighting a losing battle awoowe if you hoping to divide the Muslim Ummah. I'm not after division of any people -- muslims or otherwise. And there is no Ummah to divide, awoowe. So you can let down your over-the-top suspicion guards. Sxb, atleast try to learn from your role models[bush+Sharone],the art of deception. Concrete, irrefutable evidence of your prejudice: ascribing to me what I'm not and don't believe. Can you produce a single shred of evidence? Just one sentence of me pledging allegiance or support to either of these men?

Originally posted by codetalker: This is the ideological difference between yourself and those who argue with you. Ideological bent has nothing to do with this discussion. I believe that all Muslims (Bosnians included) are my brothers and sisters. You can believe anything you like. Just be prepared to defend them if rebuked when you post them on DISCUSSION fora like this one. And Milosovic, for what he did to thousands of human beings, deserves to be ridiculed and condemned. True but I opt to reserve the brunt of my indignation for those equally as murderous and guilty with the blood of my kinfolk on their hands. Why? Somalis are my brothers and sisters, balkan europeans aren't. You YOURSELF agree with the last sentence, regardless of what you say, unless of course you call yourself Bosnian. Bingo! Maybe he thinks it makes him look cool, no? Maybe, maybe not. But the point still remains... untouched.

Originally posted by makalajabti: You got all my answers in another thread, I advice you refer to it because I will not repeat myself. You missed the lesson and that's entirely your fault Didn't miss anything. You're dodging the question which denotes uneasiness. Why? You won't say. Either way, you've been outed... mission accomplished!

Originally posted by AbdulNoor: ^^^^Brother you view the world as a race, black white or what not. What you believe doesn't matter one whit. The world is black, white, asian, clan x and y, tribe a and b. Your statements are unfounded, as muslims we are one brotherhood, No we're not. Again, your views or opinions are irrevelent. Reality always has the final say; it disagrees with you in this case. When Bosnians were being massacred who went to their aid, muslim men from across the world, african, arab, asian, white, and who felt their pain all muslims across the world. That is a lie! Muslims around the world didn't lift a finger just like they didn't for somalis. It was, has always been, the Kufrs who ended up saving muslims from other kufrs. Some muslims were even against the Nato intervention. Bittersweat irony heh?