Originally posted by Viking: (July 10th 2006 at 21:30 , i'm gonna handle an Amelia who is younger than me 8 years clumsily and get beaten) The real translation should be... ...on July 10th at 21:30 I'm going to grope Amelia who is 8 years younger than me and get smacked MVH What the heck is going on here? Why is Amelia getting groped and who is smacking who? Viking, What do you think of these Sahih Hadiths: Volume 4, Book 55, Number 549: Narrated Abdullah: Allah's Apostle, the true and truly inspired said, "(as regards your creation), every one of you is collected in the womb of his mother for the first forty days, and then he becomes a clot for an other forty days, and then a piece of flesh for an other forty days. Then Allah sends an angel to write four words: He writes his deeds, time of his death, means of his livelihood, and whether he will be wretched or blessed (in religion). Then the soul is breathed into his body. So a man may do deeds characteristic of the people of the (Hell) Fire, so much so that there is only the distance of a cubit between him and it, and then what has been written (by the angel) surpasses, and so he starts doing deeds characteristic of the people of Paradise and enters Paradise. Similarly, a person may do deeds characteristic of the people of Paradise, so much so that there is only the distance of a cubit between him and it, and then what has been written (by the angel) surpasses, and he starts doing deeds of the people of the (Hell) Fire and enters the (Hell) Fire." Book 033, Number 6390: Abdullah (b. Mas'ud) reported that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) who is the most truthful (of the human beings) and his being truthful (is a fact) said: Verily your creation is on this wise. The constituents of one of you are collected for forty days in his mother's womb in the form of blood, after which it becomes a clot of blood in another period of forty days. Then it becomes a lump of flesh and forty days later Allah sends His angel to it with instructions concerning four things, so the angel writes down his livelihood, his death, his deeds, his fortune and misfortune. By Him, besides Whom there is no god, that one amongst you acts like the people deserving Paradise until between him and Paradise there remains but the distance of a cubit, when suddenly the writing of destiny overcomes him and he begins to act like the denizens of Hell and thus enters Hell, and another one acts in the way of the denizens of Hell, until there remains between him and Hell a distance of a cubit that the writing of destiny overcomes him and then he begins to act like the people of Paradise and enters Paradise. -These Hadiths pretty much say: our ultimate destiny is pre-destined.

Originally posted by Devilangle: But I would like the sol ppl 2 help this devilish sister!. If you're that perturbed by his appearance, why not book him for Extreme Makeover episode?

Voice Of America? Black propaganda!

Help Isreal and you help Palestinians. lang lebn yisroyl!

Originally posted by Viking: I gave the a simple analogy earlier when I said... Allah's SWT knowledge of future events does not necessarily mean that [His Knowledge] causes it to happen.... But that hardly is comparable to omniscient creator. I think you're completely overlooking the latter part in bold. It's not the pre-knowledge of future events that questions human free will but that omniscient creator at question is the selfsame creator that CREATES the subjects supposedly possessing free will -- ie Humans. Can you not see that for omniscient creator, foresight and creating our destiny are the same thing? When Allah creates us, he also creates our destiny. And that destiny is immutable. The ways of the Lord are truly inscrutable! You said that ALlah "does choose our destiny"; this would be saying that He is unjust because we are not responsible for our actions because, as you said, He "chose our destiny". Other things render Allah unjust like him being merciful. But is that mean he is unjust? I think not. If you think God is merciful, you too would be saying he's unjust. Are you? Now, how do you reconcile this line of thinking with your faith? You obviously aren't asking to find out but arguing a position and it would be interesting to know how you reconcile this stand with Islam. I can't but at least I admit that much. The rest is work in progress. - True! But this is where you seem to get lost. His knowledge of what choices we will make in our lives doesn't mean that He has chosen the paths we will take. Refer to above. For an omniscient creator, pre-knowledge of our future actions and creating our destiny mean the same thing.

Originally posted by Nur: Socod Badane I assume that the only problem you have with my write-up to be my views of western morality... Not really, I disagreed with the brunt of your post. I exercised some discretion (which I CAN as unlikely as that may sound), that's all. specially the ineffective western judicial system which provides a revolving door for criminals, a burden too high for tax payers to bear. Here is good example of what I disagree with. It's a bit of a stretch to say the Western Legal system is ineffective. While it has long way to go to be as effective as it can be, I think it's the best Legal system extant anywhere in the world. You yourself point out the revolving door for many criminals in the West but at least they're apprehended, tried and locked up. The staggeringly long backlog of cases in most Western Legal systems is suggestive of it's effectiveness in my view. Same can not be said of other competing legal systems. YOur blinkered take on Western Judicial system betrays the facts of it. It's worth bringing to your attention the inappropriateness of comparing Western Legal system and Islamic legal system. One is secular the other religious. In the Western Legal system, sin is not considered a crime nor is sex between consenting adults (marriages excluded for infidelity reasons); crime fitting the punishment is paramount concept while legal recourse to every aggreived citizen is inviolable right. Western Legal System is (for the most part) independent since majority of Western states are under trias politica or separtion of powers into Judicial, Excutive and Legislature. The list is long but I think you catch my drift. What is your opinion on new morality of social perversions that lead to AIDS? Since you mentioned AIDS, by social perversions I think you mean promiscuousness. If so, I have to correct you by pointing out morality is unrelated to licentiousness. The latter is Customs proper and naturally varies from culture to culture. Morality -- killing, stealing, lying etc -- is consistent across all cultures. Guess why that is! Now, is it your position that the prevelance of AIDS is direct result of promiscuousness? I can prove to you otherwise.

Originally posted by me: Is it me or do mulatto’s smell strange? Depends on what part of the body you stick your nose up.

Originally posted by Viking: Socod_badne, Allah SWT knowing about your destiny doesn't mean that He has chosen it for you. How so? Could you give examples or maybe expand on what you mean? You see, I'm saying omniscient creator like Allah who creates us out of his own free will does choose our destiny. For our destiny can never ever be different from what Allah knew BEFORE he chose to create us. I noticed you didn't touch on the shabby syllogism I constructed in my last post. If you could do so it be would be great aid in making this discussion fruitful. What you are doing here in your deduction is that you are anthropomorphizing Allah. He doesn't change His mind, make mistakes or act unjustly, these are human characteristics. But I haven't said any of that neither did I anthropomorphize Allah -- a strange accusation. All I said was free will (in it's conventional undertanding) obviates some of Allah's attributes like omniscience. Do you disagree? If so, please tell us why.

What's the fuss?

Sorry to burst your bubble but you're in gross error when you compare the West and Somalia. For much of the 3rd world, including Somaia, your gain affluence mainly due to your religion/race/tribe etc. Where as in the West, the playing field is much more levelled out. YOu can come to the West with nothing but the clothes you wearing and in the span of a single generation accumulate wealth and prestige beyond your wildest dreams based on merit alone!

Originally posted by Valenteenah: And I simply hate useless men, which this world is full of. There you go. Vintage Ahura descended down from the attic! Yee-haa!

Originally posted by Cara: What is it about biracial kids? Tell me about it! For me, I don't remember at what age but it was when quite young. The object of my affection? Buxom Venezuelan Mulatto... a ravishing beauty.

Originally posted by Nur: The rise of the Islamic courts in Somalia has given a new impetus for discussing the merits of present secular criminal correctional systems in place in ( Materially) develeped nations but morally bankrupt, such as France and the US. Oh! The stench of Occidentalism oozing out of that is insufferable Nur! Decrying Western moral bankruptcy and louding Eastern (or any non-Western culture) moral/spiritual supriority is rather old game and quite passe. The Nazis were convinced Western moral and spiritual compass was de-magnetized by corruption brought about by you guessed right the JEWS and seeked to rectify by reverting back to some arcane primaeval Germanic spiritualism. The Japanese believed similarly as the fanaticism of Japanese soldiers in the Pacific wars can attest. They were so sure of their moral and spiritual supriority over Western armies to even deign surrender. Ditto for Al-Quida. At every instant in history where the Occident was confronted with foes imbibed with moral and spiritual supriority over them, the West came out unblemished. What is that tell you? Think about it. As for me, I use history as best indicator of the present and future. I refuse to accept the depth of turpitude West is accused of by its detractors. History amply refutes such suggestion.

Originally posted by Viking: The issue of predestination/free-will is clear; is it predetermined meaning the choices have been made for you? No! Allah SWT is JUST and that means that everyone will be judged according to their deeds. I can't agree with you here. And I'm not the only one who finds the concepts of free will and predestination easily digestable. Here is why: 1. Allah is omnisceint (all-knowing), is free to create who ever he likes and can not make mistakes. 2. Because he is omniscient, before he creates us he knows our ultimate fate: hell or heaven. 3. His creation can not alter their ultimate fate that Allah was already privy to as that would negate his omniscience. Can you now see the source of the confusion? What are you really saying here? I said that those who become drug addicts and alcoholics abuse substances and were not made into this by The Almighty. Are you claiming otherwise? Obviously I'm saying otherwise. Humans have genetic predisposition to substance abuse; not all humans but majority. From the outset not everyone is at level playing field. SOme are more disadvanteged than others due to how they're wired; more prone to fall through the cracks so to speak. Now, most people avoid succumbing to their innate urgings. Needless to say not all for variegated reasons. Do they bear full responsibility for being drug addicts? What has innate spirtualism got to do with drugs and alcohol abuse? Religiosity. Spiritualism and religiosity are linked although not irrevocably. I admit spiritualism is extraneous to this discussion. Floated it in as worthy to know bit of information.

Originally posted by nameless_chick: Just wondering is this Bashiir guy muslim or not? No, he's Tibetan Budhist and a bad one at that. Lord have mercy on his wretched soul!

Get nipple implants (or enhancement) and you'll get my attention. Breasts are for little boys. Real men are into hands (me no like ham-handed chics), thighs, ears, giraffe rivaling necks etc.

Originally posted by Viking: You are not supposed to make any choices, except those that are of benefit to you, Viking, I don't understand the above. My question is: are we or are we not free to make choices? By choices I mean those concerning our fate in the afterlife. If no, then how could we possibly be responsible for the choices we make? Surely, this is source of confusion for many. The whole Islamic predestination business drove me to chain smoking. Still reeling from it! Alcoholism and drug abuse are not pre-determined, taking of these harmful substances are choices people make (they are not forced or pre-determined to take them) I don't know what you mean by predetermined but we're genetically pre-wired to substance abuse. Ditto to spirituality (read The God Gene). Allah SWT knows what YOU will do out of YOUR OWN FREE-WILL. Before he created you, right?

Originally posted by Alle-ubaahne: I will go for the fight against the whole of Ethiopia and show my manhood That's just perverse!

Originally posted by Viking: Socod_badne, 1) This topic is about Salafiya or Wahhabiya as some call them. 2) The other topic is about Hadd and other Laws found in the Qur'an and Sunnah. I said one cannot be a Muslim and against the application of Shari'a opting instead for man-made laws. Surely you can see that they are two different issues. I see you making excuses... rationalizing what you did. It don't matter one whit for what reasons you declare a muslim an anathema! The fact that you and others, ad libitum, take it upon yourselves to say who is and isn't a muslim is the contentious point. Anyone can come up with plethora of reasons for why a person with particular set of believes doesn't meet the criteria for being a muslim but you'd still be doing what you were lamenting about: labels.

Originally posted by Viking: What ever hapenned to simply being a Muslim, a follower of the Prophet Muhammad SAW? Why does someone have to be anything else? Allah says in the Qur'an that He has blessed us and chosen Islam as our religion, why bother with other sub-grouping? Good point! So why don't you practice what you preach? Viking: You can not be a Muslim and be against Shari'a. here is where you said the above

It's encouraging to see for a change arabs swallowing their pride and give their people a piece of the pie by Westernizing.

Originally posted by Modesty: it's better to be happy and single, than miserable and married...I think so. You're quite wrong young one 'cause one is the loneliest number you'll ever do. One Three Dog Night One is the loneliest number that you'll ever do Two can be as bad as one It's the loneliest number since the number one No is the saddest experience you'll ever know Yes, it's the saddest experience you'll ever know `Cause one is the loneliest number that you'll ever do One is the loneliest number, worse than two It's just no good anymore since she went away Now I spend my time just making rhymes of yesterday One is the loneliest, number one is the loneliest Number one is the loneliest number that you'll ever do One is the loneliest, one is the loneliest One is the loneliest number that you'll ever do It's just no good anymore since she went away (Number) One is the loneliest (Number) One is the loneliest (Number) One is the loneliest number that you'll ever do (Number) One is the loneliest (Number) One is the loneliest (Number) One is the loneliest number that you'll ever do

Originally posted by Sakhar: Brothers and sisters, please don't call/refer to this cruel and subhumane folks of monkeys and pigs as 'Israelis' Mods! Oh Mods!!!! How do you excuse such filth to be spewed without rebuke? Gross dereliction of duty I say! We want all the jews out of muslim lands. Whether it be palestine Palestine a muslim land? Wasn't it Christian before the arrival of Muslims? And didn't Jews settle there before both? And Caananites before all three? How can muslims claim any more legal or moral right to a land that has hosted so many people? We're like animals, don't you see that? That's because YOU yourselves (somalis, muslims etc) treat each other like animals. Case in point: Somalia, Pakistan, Iraq, Palestine etc etc. How can you ask of your enemies better treatment that you're unable between yourselves?

Originally posted by Amelia: quote: Amelia likes chauvenists for sure. :eek: What? Haa! Waa run. Aniga ruxeyga aaba xaqiijiyey sheekadaa.

Originally posted by HornAfrique: What makes ours any different? That it's not ours! It's an importation of alien strain of Islam. Somalis have been muslims for the better part of a millennia and nary 1 person was meted out lapidation as punishment. OUR forebears we're wise and smart enough to reject Sharia Law. For they saw it wasn't how we wanted to govern ourselves. If they didn't think stoning a living, breathing human to death acceptable a 1000 years ago, why do you think it's tolerable today, in 2006?!!!... the rest of the world uses rocks to make chips that power the computer you're using now and we enlightened Somalis are chucking 'em at fellow human being with the intent to kill! I'm stumped! Our women were allowed to dress as they saw fit in stark contrast to imposed -- by means of hook or crook!! -- obligatory attire in the form of Hijabs, Jilbaabs or whatever else they just invented. Art, sociality and everything else that breeds conviviality wasn't stifled and stultified as they appear to be at the behest of self-appointed God's interlocutors. Lapidation is not the Somali way, nor should it be as there is no compelling reason/s... no Somali worth his/her salt can assent to it becoming one now.