Originally posted by Castro: Viking, Lying about Somalis having honor killings is nothing compared to actually killing Somalis with impunity. Where did this come from sxb? I was simply trying to correct THE EMPEROR who said "it's the duty of a somali woman that she kills ayaan hirsi" that this is not justified in Islam. You claimed it would be with a fatwa which is also wrong. As you say, killing is more serious than lying, and, what you don't need a fatwa for is getting rid of the warlords who are making life a living hell for millions of Somalis.

Originally posted by Castro: ^ Not if there's a fatwa authorizing it. Castro, Every law has its jurisdiction and the Islamic Shari'a is no exception sxb. Originally posted by J B: In a normal day , one would ask the normally entailing question, " What is(was) her crime against Somalia and Somalis"?. JB, She lied about her family and made the Dutch believe that Somalis have honour killings. As for her crime against Somalis as Muslims, as non-Muslim you couldn't understand.

Originally posted by THE EMPEROR: it's the duty of a somali woman that she kills ayaan hirsi no matter what! It is the work of a court and a judge working under the Shari'a system. What you are calling for is unlawful bro.

What an amazing little boy!

Ayaan Hirsi Ali, a Somali-born Dutch politician known for her criticism of Islam, will leave parliament and move to the United States after admitting she lied to win asylum in the Netherlands, media reported today. Ms Hirsi Ali, 36, sought asylum in the Netherlands in 1992, claiming to be escaping from an arranged marriage. She gained Dutch citizenship in 1997 and was elected to parliament in 2003. A storm erupted about her asylum application last week after a Dutch television documentary interviewed members of her family about her background. They said she had not been forced into an arranged marriage and had had nothing to fear. Asked whether she had falsified her asylum application, Ms Hirsi Ali told the programme she lied about her name, age and how she came to the Netherlands. The programme prompted calls for her to leave parliament and even be stripped of citizenship. The lawmaker came to international prominence in 2004 when an Islamic militant killed filmmaker Theo van Gogh after he directed a film she wrote accusing Islam of suppressing women. Ms Hirsi Ali’s office declined to comment on the report, but said she planned to address a news conference today. The Volkskrant newspaper said today that Ms Hirsi Ali, a member of the VVD liberals that are part of the centre-right government, would start working for the American Enterprise Institute in September after reaching a deal with US authorities about her security. The paper said Ms Hirsi Ali had been in negotiations with two other institutes, the Johns Hopkins University and the Brookings Institution, over the past months. She went into hiding after Van Gogh’s killing and only returned to parliament several months later. She still lives under heavy guard. Ms Hirsi Ali, whose real name is Hirsi Magan, pretended she had come to the Netherlands from Somalia, rather than via Kenya and Germany. Refugees are usually required to apply for asylum in the first safe country they reach after fleeing. Immigration Minister Rita Verdonk, vying to be the VVD’s lead candidate in the 2007 general election, said on Saturday she would launch an investigation into Ms Hirsi Ali’s citizenship. Immigration has been a hot topic since 2002 when the outspoken Pim Fortuyn hit the headlines with his anti-immigration rhetoric. He was killed by an animal rights activist later that year but mainstream politicians have since taken up his ideas. (Reuters) Source

Originally posted by Didi Kong: Since right hand possessions are supposedly 'wives' who weren't paid dowries clearly shows that they didn't enjoy the same rights other free women did. This is because they were concubines or more appropriately slave women. Didi Kong, How did you come to the conclusion that since no dowry was paid for them then they must have been treated differently and therefore were slaves?

Socod_badne, The irony is that those who deny the existence of Allah SWT do not realise that it is the divine aspect in us that seeks to establish these qualities. A mechanical/aimless world hardly equip us with guilt or goodwill.

It's a brilliant letter - but the problem is that the western audience cannot understand it because it has not been spun.

Congrats Qac!

Honesita, Islam does not promote slavery nor does it permit people to have sex-slaves. The term ma malakat aymanukum has been used several times in the Qur'an and when used to refer to the Prophet, it means the wives who he didn't pay a dowry for. Here is where Maria Qibtiya comes in, she was a gift from the Coptic leader and therefore she was considered "what the right hand possesses" meaning no dowry was paid. This is evident in Al-Azhab verse 50... O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those whom thy RIGHT HAND POSSESSES out of the prisoners of war whom Allah has assigned to thee;... The Qur'an also tells those who don't have means to marry to be chaste in Surah Noor... And let those WHO DO NOT FIND the means to marry keep chaste until God suffices them from Hiss blessing, and who ask the TERM/fate/destiny (yabtaghoona alkitaba) from MA MALAKAT AYMANUKUM, so WRITE with them (fakatiboohum in AAalimtum), if you know any good in them, and give them of the wealth of God which He has given you; and do not compel your girls to prostitution, when they desire to keep chaste, in order to seek the frail good of this world's life; .... Some scholars say that Maria the Copt stayed a concubine while others say she was his lawful wife. But is it perceivable that the Prophet SAWS engaged in adultery and even had children out of wedlock? She was the only one [besides Khadija] who had a child with the Prophet but her son Ibrahim died at an early age. -------------------------------------------------- Was Maria the Copt a Slave, a Concubine, or a Wife of the Prophet? Slavery already existed long before Islam. It was a system whereby a human captured in wars or kidnapped could be sold as a “possession.†That term applied to both sexes, not to women only. In some cultures slaves were considered subhuman and treated brutally. In Europe, for example, Romans threw Christian slaves to the lions while the public cheered; female slaves were thought to have no souls and were tortured mercilessly; slaves lived in degrading conditions; both sexes were forced to offer sexual favors to their masters; and as “possessions†they had no choice, no will, and no rights. Islam recognized the human rights of slaves and encouraged Muslims to set slaves free. Islam prohibited adultery and homosexuality, and prevented forcing female slaves into sexual acts against their will. Islam encouraged educating them, setting them free, then legally marrying them and giving them their moral and financial rights. The reward for this—as mentioned in Prophetic Hadith—is eternal residence in Paradise. Maria (may Allah be pleased with her) was not a concubine; she was a slave owned by Egypt’s Christian governor, who offered her and her sister Serine—among other presents—as a “gift of good will†to the Prophet in reply to his envoys inviting him to Islam. On her way from Egypt to Madinah, she was curious to learn about “her new master†and listened to his Companions talk about him. As a result, she became Muslim before meeting Muhammad. Scholars’ opinions vary of her status afterwards; here is the opinion I support: One of the prominent Al-Azhar scholars, Sheikh Abdul Majid Subh, states: “Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him), instead of taking concubines, entered into lawful marriages based on reason and wisdom. Maria the Copt was given to him as a present, but rather than taking her as a concubine, the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) married her, thus elevating her status by marriage.†Source!

I remember the first time I watched him play when his Bordeaux beat AC Milan 3-0. Dugarry scored two goals in that game and AC Milan signed him the following season; but Juve were smarter and signed the maestro. He's had an amazing career but what most people will remember are... - His two goals in the 1998 WC final against Brazil - His spectacular volley that decided the 2002 CL final against Bayer Leverkusen

My head says Barca but my heart says Gooners! This Barca team is even better than Cruyff's dream-team of the early 90's with Stoichkov, Romario, Laudrup, Guardiola, Koeman etc.

I saw this rather funny piece on another forum and thought I should share it with the hooligans of this section. To all and more seriously ladies from age 0-1001! Extremely important advice and recommendations to be passed on to wives, girlfriends, fiancés, mothers, sisters, daughters, etc. (to all women of this world) These rules are to be communicated prior to the World Cup in June/July this year... List Of Rules. 1. From 9 June to 9 July 2006, you should read the sports section of the newspaper so that you are aware of what is going on regarding the World Cup, and that way you will be able to join in the conversations. If you fail to do this, then you will be looked at in a bad way, or you will be totally ignored. DO NOT complain about not receiving any attention. 2. During the World Cup, the television is mine, at all times, without any exceptions. If you even take a glimpse of the remote control, you will lose it (your eye). 3. If you have to pass by in front of the TV during a game, I don't mind, as long as you do it crawling on the floor and without distracting me. If you decide to stand nude in front of the TV, make sure you put clothes on right after because if you catch a cold, I wont have time to take you to the doctor or look after you during the World Cup month. 4. During the games I will be blind, deaf and mute, unless I require a refill of my drink or something to eat. You are out of your mind if you expect me to listen to you, open the door, answer the telephone, or pick up the baby that just fell from the second floor....it wont happen. 5. It would be a good idea for you to keep at least 2 six packs in the fridge at all times, as well as plenty of things to nibble on, and please do not make any funny faces to my friends when they come over to watch the games. In return, you will be allowed to use the TV between 12am and 6am, unless they replay a good game that I missed during the day. 6. Please, please, please!! if you see me upset because one of my teams is losing, DO NOT say "get over it, its only a game", or "don't worry, they'll win next time". If you say these things, you will only make me angrier and I will love you less. Remember, you will never ever know more about football than me and your so called "words of encouragement" will only lead to a break up or divorce. 7. You are welcome to sit with me to watch one game and you can talk to me during halftime but only when the commercials are on, and only if the halftime score is pleasing me. In addition, please note I am saying "one" game, hence do not use the World Cup as a nice cheesy excuse to "spend time together". 8. The replays of the goals are very important. I don't care if I have seen them or I haven't seen them, I want to see them again. Many times. 9. Tell your friends NOT to have any babies, or any other child related parties or gatherings that require my attendance because: a) I will not go, b) I will not go, and c) I will not go. 10. But, if a friend of mine invites us to his house on a Sunday to watch a game, we will be there in a flash. 11. The daily World Cup highlights show on TV every night is just as important as the games themselves. Do not even think about saying "but you have already seen this...why don't you change the channel to something we can all watch??", the reply will be: "Refer to Rule #2 of this list". 12. And finally, please save your expressions such as "Thank God the World Cup is only every 4 years". I am immune to these words, because after this comes the Champions League, Italian League, Spanish League, Premier League, etc etc. Thank you for your cooperation.

lool STOIC, Hope you don't develop hydrophobia One time I went on a canoe with three other buddies on 4-man canoe. Half way through the massive lake, one dude started joking around, rocking the canoe side to side as if threatenning to turn it over. We weren't so keen on his jokes, especially one guy who was from waqooyi. He was swearing like there's no tomorrow, he was yelling and insulting everything and everyone. The thing is, he could not swim at all! Alas, the canoe fell over and we were in the middle of a river and to top it all it was a crispy cold but sunny spring day. The guy who couldn't swim gulped a few glasses of water as he came to the surface and started yelling for his life as we helped him to hold on to the capsized canoe. It took us about 20 mins to get to the river bank in a forest area where we were shivering another 20 mins or so until a rescue team came to get us. Kayaking sounds fun, but I wouldn't do it without a helmet!

Originally posted by xiinfaniin: Islam instructed the prophet to employ persuasive methods when preaching. He was also known to use incentives to soothe new converts hearts and alleviate any hardships they may encounter. His was a wise approach that effectively gathered their hearts, as it were, and hence preserved (pardon the liberal usage) their faith. xiinfaniin, I remember a recent Friday Khutba where the Imam was talking about Islam in the early days. Some people would tell the Prophet SAWS that they would convert to Islam on the condition that they would only pray 2 and not 5 prayers as demanded of Muslims. The Prophet SAWS never turned these people away (by telling them it's 5 or nothing) but accepted their Shahada and these people changed their opinions after learning more about the Deen. We have become very harsh towards non-Muslims so much that we scare them away instead of facilitating their move towards Haqq. What Turabi is suggesting seems to go against the norm but is trying to tackle a problem that is situation induced.

Thanks bro, bookmarked the site. Here's a link I came across that a "milieu" man like yourself may like - the Islamic Environmental Club. Perhaps you might find more appealing lectures here - lectures.

And the Turkish govt allows the American and Israeli air force to use its airspace. Ironic eh?

Originally posted by S.O.S: That seems to me as an understatement of facts, in fact, to think one can correct Allah’s “static†revelations with ones own desirous reasoning has neither to do with logic nor revelation. S.O.S, It's not the Revelation is "static" but the interpretations. What Turabi is going against is not Revelation but the consensus of scholars that preceeded. As Khalaf mentionned, ibn Taymiyah was considered a heretic by his contemporaries because of the nature of his ideas as opposed to the ideas that prevailed in his era. Only Allah SWT knows Turabi's intentions so it is wrong to say he is attending to his desires.

Originally posted by ThePoint: ^Good article Viking - but generally that is the exception unfortunately. I loved this quote in the article: First someone calls me huuno out of the blue and now thanked for an article I never posted It's Rahima's fault for dropping my name into this famine thread! :cool:

Originally posted by KEYNAN22: You sound like a west african negro, what has songhai, mali and Ghana's "time of greatness" anything to do with you as a somali. I'm disgusted by how some somalis these days sound more and more like these afrocentric lunatics talking about past glories and blaiming everything bad on the whities. Africa stinks because of the negro, period. God was in a bad mood they day he created the Negro no doubt about that. Slavery and other explotation( that still continues) is not the whiteys fault, its the negroes fault for not being able to protect his people and himself, and has still not learned to do so. blacks are like little children, no sense of responsibility, discipline or foresight thinking at all, whenever a black gets money the first thing he does is to buy unnecessery shit, the words saving and investment does not exist in the negro mentality. lets invite the white man back to Africa, the time they controlled were the only time this god forsaken continent had any kind of greatness or glory, atleast people didnt starve under their rule. what a shame that such a beutiful continet is inhabited by the most sorry people of all human races. I've always wonderd how Africa would be like if it was inhabited by non-blacks, im quite sure everyones dream would be to move to this paradise. But today when people think about Africa, they actually imagine how hell looks like. No need to talk shit anymore we need to be honest to each other, we need to put the cards on the table and face the facts. ...and all the other African nations should follow the great example of the noble Somalis (who are not negroid) and learn how a country is run. They should see how Somalis have built a united nation based on peace, respect, love and unity! Preach on KEYNAN22, tell everyone how brutish, bigoted and narrow-minded you are...but to say "God was in a bad mood" is crossing the bigotry line and into murky waters.

Originally posted by Didi Kong: Anyway Huuno Viking you make some valid points but I have to remind you that you are sporting a dangerously non passive attitude by referring to yourself by one of God's attribute and name. wow! wow! wow! @ huuno :eek: :cool: Rahima, Your white hijab is starting to look coned on the top just like the Klan hood lol.

What a man! What a man! He got cool instincts to deal with any situation.

Suleyman, How issues are dealt with in Saudi Arabia does carry a lot of weight. Most Muslims worldwide have been receiving financial aid and also indoctrination (religious views) from Saudi Arabia and therefore their views trickle down to Muslims all over the world. It is also home to Makka and Medina, the centre of Islam. The issue of driving is chauvanism however you look at it. This is not only peculiar to Arabs. If you go rural areas of Africa, you will see that the women are in the fields with hoes digging the soil, but the men are the ONLY ones sitting on tractors. You will hardly see a woman driving a tractor in rural Africa and this comes down to one thing, power! My point is that taking this hadith literally poses a great danger as it will lead to women being excluded from every sphere of life and opressing them. Men are superior to women only in terms of physical strength, when it comes to spiritual accountability, everyone stands by his-/herself in front of Allah SWT on The Day of Reckonning. If women literally were inferior in terms of Deen then we would be held responsible if they went astray, as they are not as capable as we men are isn't it? But you will see that the Qur'an cosntantly says "O believing men and women" and the Prophet told us that "Knowledge was obligatory for every Muslim", not man but Muslim! Why would then this hadith be used to hold women back from work? What is the point of knowledge if you cannot apply it practically or spread it to others? The Qur'an and Hadith are also clear that superiority over someone else is only achieved through knowledge, piety and consciousness of Allah SWT. Not heart-muscle but knowledge and piety.

Suleyman, Can you give please me examples of fabricated hadiths and those that contradict authentic hadith in this book? I would appreciate it.

Perhaps this piece found in the works of al-Ghazzali could give us some insight in the common traps when debating/discussing a subject matter. Ghazzali was adressing the scholars or other knowledgable people who debated issues but this could be [to some degree] applicable to many people on these boards. It is easy to fall victim to either one, some or all of the traits mentionned and as Muslims we should try our uttermost to avoid it. I hope this is beneficial because Allah SWT has access to our innermost thoughts and feelings that we might not make prevalent on these boards. On the Evils of Debate and the Character Destroying Influences Resulting Therefrom 1.ENVY The Prophet said: “As fire consumes wood so does envy consume good deeds.â€1 The debater persists in envy because at times he overcomes his adversary and other times he himself is overcome; at times his words are praised and at other times those of his opponent are applauded; and as long as there remains in all the world one known among men for his versatile knowledge and regarded by them more learned than the debater and endowed with keener insight, the debater will inevitably envy him and wish that the favours and admiration which that man enjoys might accrue to him instead. Envy is a consuming fire; its victim is subject to torment in this world while in the world to come his torture will be more intense and painful. For this reason ibn-‘Abbas said, “Take knowledge wherever ye may find it, but accept not the opinion of one jurisprudent concerning another because they are as jealous of one another as the bulls in the cattle-yard.†2.PRIDE AND HAUGHTINESS The Prophet said, “He who exalteth himself is humbled by Allah, and he who humbleth himself is exalted by Allah.â€2 Said he again quoting Allah, “Pride is my mantle and grandeur, yea it is my cloak. I shall smite anyone who would contest my sole right to them.â€3 The debater persists in exalting himself above his equals and peers and in claiming for himself a station higher than his worth to the extent that he and his colleagues fight over their seats in assembly halls and boast about the degree of their elevation or lowliness as well as their proximity to, or remoteness from the central seat. 1. Abu-Dawud, Adab, 44; ibn-Majah, Zuhd, 22:3. 2. Cf. ibn-Majah, Zuhd, 16:3; Matt, 22:12; Luke 14:11,18:14. 3. See ibn-Majah, Zuhd, 16:2. 3.RANCOUR Another is rancour from which a debater is hardly ever free. The Prophet said, “The believer is free from rancour.†Several more traditions have been related in condemnation of rancour and they are well-known. Yet we do not know of a debater who, is capable of entertaining no rancour against anyone who would nod his head in approval of the words of his adversary, or who when the latter pauses in the midst of a sentence, would politely wait for him. On the contrary he would, whenever he is confronted with such a situation, entertain and foster rancour in his heart. He may attempt to restrain himself hoping thereby to disguise his feelings; but, in most cases, he fails as his feelings invariably reveal themselves. How can he refrain from rancour when it is inconceivable that all the audience should unite in favouring his argument and approve all his conclusions and deductions? Furthermore should his opponent show the least sign of inconsideration about what he was saying, he would entertain for him in his heart a hatred that would last throughout his life. 4.BACKBITING Another is backbiting which was likened by Allah to the eating of carrion.1 The debater persists in “eating carrion†and is continually referring to the words of his opponent and traducing him. Because he endeavours to be right in what he says about his opponent, he inevitably cites only what shows the weaknesses of his opponent’s argument and the flaws in his excellences. Of such is traducing and backbiting, while lying is sheer calumny. The debater, moreover, cannot keep his tongue from attacking the honour of anyone who turns away from him and listens to his opponent. He would even ascribe to him ignorance, foolishness, lack of understanding, and ********* . 1.Cf. Surah XLIXL: 12 5.SELF-JUSTIFICATION Allah said, “Assert not then your own purity. He best knoweth who feareth Him.â€1 A certain wise man was once asked, “What truth is reprehensible?†He replied, “A man’s praising himself [even though it be justified].†A debater is never free from praising himself and boasting of his power, triumph, and excellence over his peers. In the course of a debate he would repeatedly say, “I am fully aware of all such things,†and “I am versatile in science, of independent judgment on question of law, and well-versed in the knowledge of tradition,â€and many other assertions besides with which he would sing his own praise, sometimes out of sheer arrogance and at other times out of the need to render his words convincing. It is also well-known that arrogance and self-praise are by law and reason condemned. 6.SPYING AND PRYING Another is spying and prying into the private affairs of men. Allah said, “Pry not.â€2 The debater always seeks to uncover the errors of his peers and continually pries into the private affairs of his opponents. He would, when informed of the arrival in town of another debater, seek someone who could reveal the inside story of the man and would by means of a questionnaire attempt to bare his vices in order to expose and disgrace him whenever the need should arise. He even would inquire about the affairs of his early life and blemishes of his body in the hope of discovering some defect or disfigurement such as scalp pustule and the like. Should he fear defeat at the hands of his opponent, he would, in the course of the debate, allude to these blemishes, especially if his opponent should remain firm and stand his ground, and would not refrain from being outspoken if he were given to insolence and scorn. Both of these practices are regarded as clever ways of repelling the attacks of an opponent, as should be seen by the accounts of the debates of some of the illustrious and celebrated debaters. 1. Surah LIII: 33 2. Surah XLIX:12. 7.REJOICE AT THE INJURY OF OTHERS Another is to rejoice at the injury of others and feel depressed when they are glad. Anyone who does not desire for his brother Muslim what he desires for himself is far removed from the way of believers.1 Thus he who prides himself by parading his excellence is inevitably pleased at the injury of his peers and equals who vie with him for glory. The hatred which exists between them is like that which exists between fellow-wives. Just as the one wife would tremble and turn pale at the sight of her fellow-wife so would a debater at the sight of another: his colour would change and his mind become perplexed as though he had seen a mighty devil or a hungry lion. How unlike the companionship and friendliness which used to exist between the learned men of religion whenever they met is this, and how unlike the brotherhood, the co-operation, and the mutual sharing which were characteristic of them under fair and adverse conditions alike! Thus al-Shafi‘i said, “Among the virtuous and wise, knowledge is like a bond of blood relationship.†I cannot, therefore, understand how some men, among whom knowledge has engendered a deep-rooted enmity, have followed his rite. Or can you ever imagine any spirit of friendliness prevailing among them when they are concerned with achieving triumph and boasting of it? How unlikely! It is bad enough that such an evil fastens on you the traits of the deceitful and robs you of those of the believers and devout. 1. Cf. al-Bukhari, Iman, 6 8.DECEPTION Another is deception, the evidence of whose blameworthiness is well known and need not be enumerated. Debaters are compelled to deception because when they meet their opponents, friends, or followers, they find it necessary to endear themselves to them by saying nice things which they do not mean, by feigning to have been anxious to meet them, and by pretending to be impressed by their station and position, while everyone present as well as the speakers and those to whom they have spoken to, know that the whole thing is untrue, false, fraudulent, and wicked. They profess their love with their tongues while their hearts seethe with hate. From it all we seek refuge in Allah. The Prophet also said, “When people take to knowledge and ignore works, when they profess love to one another with their tongue and nurse hatred in their hearts, and when they sever the ties of relationship which bind them, Allah will visit His wrath upon them and curse them, He will render their tongues mute and their eyes blind.†The truth of this tradition, which was related by al-Hasan, has been verified as these conditions which it predicts have been witnessed and seen. 9.TO RESIST THE TRUTH AND DETEST IT Another is to resist truth and detest it and to persist in disputing it so much so that the most hateful thing to a debater is to see the truth revealed by his opponent; no matter what it may be, he would do his best to refute and deny it and would exert his utmost in deception, trickery and fraud in order to disprove his adversary until contention becomes in him a second nature. He is thus unable to hear anything without immediately expressing his objection to it. This habit of his would even drive him to dispute the truths of the Qur’an and the words of tradition and would cause him to cite the one in contradiction of the other. Furthermore wrangling even in opposing wrong is prohibited since the Prophet called men to abjure it although they are right in their contention. He thus said, “Whoever was in error and should abjure wrangling, to him Allah would build a dwelling in the confines of Paradise; while whoever was in the right and should abjure wrangling, to him Allah would prepare a habitation in the heart of Paradise.â€1 Allah has also regarded as equal those who devise lies against Allah and those who call the truth a lie. He said, “But who acteth more wrongfully than he who deviseth a lie against Allah, or calls the truth when it hath come to him, a lie?â€2 and and again, “And who acteth more wrongfully than he who lieth against Allah and treateth the truth when it comes to him as a lie.†10.HYPOCRISY Another is hypocrisy and flattering people in an effort to win their favour and mislead them. Hypocrisy is that virulent disease which, as will be discussed in the Book on Hypocrisy,4 leads to the gravest of the major sins. The debater wants nothing but to put himself forward before people, and to gain their approval and praise. 1. Cf. ibn-Majah Intro, 7: 7. 2. Surah XXIX: 68. 3. Surah XXXX 33. 4. See the Quarter on the Destructive Matters of Life, Bk. VIII These ten traits are among the greatest secret sins. Others, who lack restraint may engage in controversies leading to the exchange of blows, kicking, boxing, tearing garments, plucking beards, cursing parents, denouncing teachers, and outright slander. Such people, however, are not considered respectable human beings. The prominent and sober among them do not go beyond the preceding ten traits. One may be free of this or that trait with regard to his inferiors or superiors, whatever the case may be, or with regards to people outside his community or his sphere of work. Yet in his attitude towards his peers, who are equal to him in position, the debater is guilty of all these traits. Each of these ten traits may give rise to ten other vices which we shall neither discuss nor explain at the present time. They include snobbishness, anger, hatred, greed, the desire to seek money and power in order to attain triumph, boasting, gaiety, arrogance, exalting the wealthy and those in authority as well as frequenting their places and partaking of their unlawful riches, parading with horses, state-coaches, and outlawed garments, showing contempt to people by being vain and ostentatious, meddling in the affairs of others, talkativeness, the disappearance of awe, fear, and mercy from the heart, absent-mindedness to an extent that the worshipper would no longer be aware of what he had prayed, or read, or who had communed with him during his prayer.