Brother Viking, Why is that you consider sufies as “sunnies†but not consider Shia as “sunnies� Its evident that these two great Imams despised Sufism, not to mention ibn taymiyah! I suspect you are asking in spite, but in case you didn't know, according to the current and available classifications, Sufis and Wahhabis are both Hanbali. Hanbali, Maliki, Shafi'i and Hanafi are Sunnis. Shi'a are followers of the Ja'fari school of thought, which is not classified as being part of Sunni Islam. Its simple brother, because none of them ascribe to the ba’ath socialist atheist party! do you happened to know the creed of this party! Ask any arab what the Ba’ath party stands for! do some research brother! Not much research is needed for this mate, anyone who follows the news knows that the Ba'ath party is a socialist and secularist party that has ruled Iraq for decades. But what you don't seem to know from your response is that it is also the CURRENT ruling party in Syria. So Syrians do "ascribe to the ba’ath socialist atheist party" Brother its agreed 100% by the scholars of this ummah unanimously that Saadam is a kafir, and shall remain until he frees himself from his party! I assume the scholars you are referring to are Salafis; have they also agreed 100% as to whether Bashar Al Asad is a kafir, for he too "ascribe to the ba’ath socialist atheist party"?

Baashi bro, Bro Nur is a very learned brother and I have nothing but love and respect for him. He inititated this thread and like everyone else, he had good intentions but it turned out sour. My friend Feynman (who has unfortunately quit SOL) recently told of a saying; the road to hell is paved with good intentions. That describes what this thread has turned out to be...a topic filled with confusion instead of guidance. Mutakalim was was willing to discuss the topic in depth but they never agreed on a structure to follow. Originally posted by Libaax-Sankataabte: Viking,...The buss word you mentioned about "advancing Shiite agenda" and "coming here to ruin the forum" came to your thoughts abviously because you are saying it in your post. I respect you as a man and I will not judge you, but whether you have certain agendas or not, only time will tell. Allah knows best. Don't hold your breath mate, you might die blue in the face Believe me, if I had an agenda, I'm the type who take to much more sinister methods So lay back and relax, because this brother comes in salaaaam Allah SWT indeed knows best.

Mutakalim, Thanks bro, it was an interesting read. Baashi, Political discord about succession also lead to the formation of the party of Ali (Shia of Ali) now simply called the Shia. Mutakalim's post talks about the different views on the origin of Shiism. The article claims (with some references) that Shi'at Ali was actually known of during the time of Our Noble prophet PBUH and that it was not a 'political discord about succession' that lead to its conception.

Today's Friday khutba at the local mosque was about the pursuit of knowledge and improving one's life. I thought it was very important and wanted to share it with my fellow Nomads. The imam said that if today is just like yesterday, and yesterday was like the day before in the life of a Muslim, then he/she is a LOSER. A Muslim ought to add something to his life every single day; We have to learn something new every single day or improve on something we did the previous day. The imam also talked about how Our Noble prophet PBUH used to rely on a Jewish man to translate documents sent to him from the Jews. Hassan ibn Thabit (the sheikh said Hassan but I think it was Zayd ibn Thabit; I could be wrong) learnt Hebrew (and later Syriac) in a very short time and helped translate the documents. Thanks to him, Our Noble prophet PBUH didn't need to rely on a Jew to translate the documents from his people. The imam drew a comparison (of ibn Thabit's story) to the life we lead today; that we are on the 'recieving end' of almost everything. We depend on other people (non Muslims) for almost everything. He said that we haven't the zeal Muslims ought to have in life, in pursuit of knowledge. He said that we should aim to master every field, so that we can lean towards self sufficience and not need to rely on peoples of other civilisations. We should be the leaders in every field... So, we need to look for ways to improve, adding something new to our lives every single day. That way we will grow s a nation, the Islamic Ummah.

Nur, Bro I know you are always careful what you say, but I was suprised by the words in bold. I know they are just words but their implications are clear... It is ironic for you to use this quote of all other. That quote was said by Omar Ibnul Khatttab, The Second Khalif Arrashid of the Muslims, who was killed by the Majuusi Abu Lu'luah, while praying Of the Muslims? Does that mean that you regard those who don't acknowledge Umar (RA) as the second Khalifa as NOT being Muslims?

Originally posted by Libaax-Sankataabte: To me, it looks like the Islamic section (the most peaceful section of the site) is turned into a battle zone by new members from Somalinet who propably came here to advance certain agendas and cause trouble. Of the four involved involved in this Shi'a-Sunni discussion, Feynman and I are the ones from Somalinet. Why don't you come clean and say what you are trying to say mate? Do you find it offensive that we had an opinion that differs from the resident sheikh? What agenda is it we want to advance here? Shi'ism or plans to ruin SOL? And about Somalinet, majority of SOL's current members have operated on Somalinet at some stage. So it isn't that bad of a place to come from.

J11, I don't doubt the admin, he probably can back his accusations. And in this medium, that's a piece of cake. But this 'couple of nomads' are what I find a bit fiiishy.

I was watching tv and there was Danny Willaims talking about his upcoming fight with Tyson (tomorrow). He praised Tyson as a boxer ...and ended by saying INSHALLAH! I did a search on him and found out that he also is a Muslim. Here is al ist of more known personalities who have converted to Islam... FACES OF ISLAM By Sajid Iqbal. Editor, The Revival Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world and has an estimated 1.6 billion followers throughout the globe. But who are the faces and personalities behind these converts to Islam? Khadija, wife of Prophet Muhammad (upon him be peace), was the first to convert to Islam. Some of the more well-known converts to Islam from more recent times are the following: YVONNE RIDLEY is the latest high profile conversion which hit the headlines: British journalist Yvonne Ridley, detained by Taliban last year, has embraced Islam, saying ‘Islam is the religion of salvation.’ Ms Ridley, 44, working for the British "Sunday Express" newspaper - was detained in September 2001 near the eastern city of Jalalabad, for entering the country illegally. She was released after ten days. "Taliban had told me to convert to Islam after my release and reaching London. I had told them that it is not possible now but promised them to study and understand Islam," the BBC quoted her as saying. She said she studied the Holy Quran and several other books and converted to Islam. In a book written after her release, Ridley said that she met Dr. Zaki Badawai, head of the Islamic Center in London and discussed with him Islam. In her book, she has explained how she was arrested and how much Taliban respected her in detention. Ms Ridley, originally from Stanley, County Durham, is a former assistant editor of Newcastle's Sunday Sun and deputy editor of Wales on Sunday. Ms Ridley also worked for the News of the World, the Daily Mirror, The Sunday Times, The Observer and the Independent before joining Express Newspapers three years ago. Ms Ridley is one of many female converts to Islam. JERMAIN JACKSON- Brother of Pop Star Micheal Jackson A very short interaction with a group of children in Saudi Arabia in 1989 ultimately led Jermain to have long discourses about Islam with Muslim scholars. “A great ripple had taken place in my thought. I made failing attempt to console myself that nothing had happened but I could not conceal this fact any longer from myself that at heart I had converted to Islam. This I disclosed first to my family friend, Qunber Ali. The same Qunber Ali managed to take me to Riyadh, capital of Saudi Arabia. Till that time, I did not know much about Islam. From there, in the company of a Saudi family, I proceeded for Mecca for the performance of "Umrah". There I made public for the first time that I had become Muslim.†He is now known as Muhammad Abdul-Aziz. His wife, seven sons and two daughter who, like him, are fully Islamic-oriented. Muhammad Ali – Formerly Cassius Clay; three-time Heavy Weight Champion of the World. He converted to orthodox Islam in 1965. "I have had many nice moments in my life. But the feelings I had while standing on Mount Arafat (just outside Makka, Saudi Arabia) on the day of the Hajj (the Muslim pilgrimage), was the most unique. I felt exalted by the indescribable spiritual atmosphere there as over one and a half million pilgrims invoked God to forgive them for their sins and bestow on them His choicest blessings. It was an exhilarating experience to see people belonging to different colours, races and nationalities, kings, heads of state and ordinary men from very poor countries all clad in two simple white sheets praying to God without any sense of either pride or inferiority. It was a practical manifestation of the concept of equality in Islam." source: Islam in America, Jane Smith Malcom X - Black-rights activist and religious leader. In 1964, after a pilgrimage to Mecca, he announced his conversion to orthodox Islam and his belief in the possibility of brotherhood between blacks and whites. “...America needs to understand Islam, because this is the one religion that erases from its society the race problem. Throughout my travels in the Muslim world, I have met, talked to, and even eaten with people who in America would have been considered white -- but the "white" attitude was removed from their minds by the religion of Islam. I have never before seen sincere and true brotherhood practiced by all colors together, irrespecitve of their color. My pilgrimage broadened my scope. It blessed me with a new insight. In two weeks in the Holy Land, I saw what I never had seen in thirty-nine years here in America. I saw all races, all colors, -- blue-eyed blonds to black-skinned Africans -- in true brotherhood! In unity! Living as one! Worshipping as one! No segregationists†. Autobiography of Malcolm X Chris Eubank -- In March 1997, after former super middleweight world champion Chris Eubank defeated Camilo Alocon of Columbia at the Dubai Tennis Stadium in a light heavyweight contest, Eubank embraced Islam. The former boxer studied the Koran for three years before becoming a Muslim and took the name Hamdan. MTV Presenter Kristiane Backer – Kristiana in her prime went to Boston to interview the Rolling Stones, and went on the road with Prince for a week. She was the number-one woman on MTV and was literally on television all the time. She presented the Coca-Cola report and the European Top 20 and interviewed bands and millions of people recognised her all over Europe. â€I was still at MTV, still finding my faith, and I realised I wasn't fulfilled by that whole rock 'n' roll lifestyle. I felt that what I was doing was pointless; it wasn't a great contribution to society. They wanted me to look good on camera, but I didn't want to be a sex symbol any more. As a modern westerner with a career, of course I had to look into Islam's attitude to women. I discovered that it is pro-women and pro-men.†Ferdinand Lewis Alcindor now known as Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. Before the 1971-72 season Alcindor converted from Catholicism to Islam and took the name Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. He played 20 seasons in the league with the Milwaukee Bucks and Los Angeles Lakers. By the time the 7 foot 2 basketball player retired in 1989, Abdul-Jabbar was a six-time Most Valuable Player and is now one of the 50 Greatest Players in NBA History. He began to study the Quran, for which he undertook to learn basic Arabic. In 1973 he travelled to Libya and Saudi Arabia to get a better grasp of the language and to learn about Islam He professes a strong belief in what he calls the Supreme Being and is clear in his understanding that Muhammad is his prophet and the Quran is the final revelation. Objecting to having been pushed into the Catholic faith by his father, he insists that his children will be free to make their own choices.....For his part, Kareem accepts his responsibility to live as good an Islamic life as possible, recognising that Islam is able to meet the requirements of being a professional athlete in America. (source: Islam in America, Jane Smith) Jemima Khan – Formerly Jemimah Goldsmith, Jewish daughter of billionaire Sir James. At the age of 21 she married famous Pakistani cricket player Imran Khan and converted to Islam. Changed name to Haiqa Khan. "It would seem that a Western woman's happiness hinges largely upon her access to nightclubs, alcohol and revealing clothes; and the absence of such apparent freedom and luxuries in Islamic societies is seen as an infringement of her basic rights. However, as we all know, such superficialities have very little to do with true happiness....†Art Blakey - American drummer and jazz musician. His contribution to jazz from 1954 to 1990 as leader of the Jazz Messengers established the sound Hard Bop, greatly influencing later generations of musicians and entertainers. Now known as Abdullah Ibn Buhaina Cat Stevens, world famous British pop singer. He converted to Islam in 1973 and changed his name to Yusuf Islam. “I tried Zen and Ching, numerology, tarot cards and astrology. I tried to look back into the Bible and could not find anything. When I received the Quran , a guidance that would explain everything to me - who I was; what was the purpose of life; what was the reality and what would be the reality; and where I came from - I realized that this was the true religion; religion not in the sense the West understands it, not the type for only your old age. In the West, whoever wishes to embrace a religion and make it his only way of life is deemed a fanatic. I was not a fanatic; I was at first confused between the body and the soul. Then I realized that the body and soul are not apart and you don't have to go to the mountain to be religious. We must follow the will of God. Then we can rise higher than the angels. The first thing I wanted to do now was to be a Muslim.†www.catstevens.com Danny Williams- Currently the Commonwealth and British Heavyweight Boxing Champion. Queen Noor of Jordan -- Born Lisa Najeeb Halaby to a prominent Arab-American family. Raised by Christian parents, she converted to Islam when she married the late King Hussein, a Hashemite and descendant of the prophet’s line, on 15 June 1978. When she converted, she changed her name to Noor al-Hussein -- the light of Hussein. William Henry Quilliam - an affluent lawyer from Liverpool and a descendent of Nelson’s first Lieutenant- Captain John Quilliam, accepted Islam in 1887. Quilliam adopted an Islamic name Abdullah. During his time around 150 other Liverpudlians also accepted the reality and truth of Islam. Abdullah Quilliam established the first mosque in the British Isles in 1887. Rt. Hon. Sir Rowland George Allanson Peer, Statesman, and Author. He was born in 1855 A.D. and was a leading British peer, statesman and author. Educated in Cambridge, he became a peer in 1877, served in the army as a captain and later on as Lieut. Colonel in 4th Battalion of North Minister Fusiliers. Lord Headley embraced Islam on 16th November 1913(8) and adopted the Muslim name of Shaikh Rahmatullah al-Farooq. He was also the author of several books, most well known amongst them being: A Western Awakening to Islam. Sir Charles Edward Archibald Watkins Hamilton embraced Islam on 20th December 1923. A well-known English statesman, fifth baronet of the first (1770) and third baronet of the second creation (1819) Sir Abdullah was born on 10th December 1876. He was a Lieutinent in the Royal Defence Corp. and was also the President of the Selsy Conservative Association. “As the time progressed, I wished to be at peace with my Creator, and I found that both the Church of Rome and the Church of England were of no real use to me. In becoming a Muslim I have merely obeyed the dictates of my conscience, and have since felt a better and a truer man.†(Source: http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/newmuslims/hamilton.html) Micheal Barry- TV Cook and radio programmer who changed his name to Micheal Bukhit. Joe Ahmed Dobson: Son of former cabinet minister Frank Dobson, Joe turned to Allah at university. While his contemporaries drank away their student grants, Dobson was diligently praying the standard five times a day. He works on inner city regeneration, finds spiritual satisfaction in Islam’s constant impetus to do the right thing, and credits his first-class degree to the structure his faith has brought to his life. The 26-year-old is now chairman of the Muslim Council of Britain's Regeneration Committee and has the full support of his family - his dad buys him Islamic books for Christmas. John Birt Jr. son of John Birt- former head of BBC. Changed his name to Yehia Bert after embracing Islam. Jonathan Birt, forsook a fast track into the ranks of the great and the good by converting in 1997 and starting a PhD on British Islam. Michael Wolfe – Author of The Hajj: An American's Pilgrimage to Mecca, and One Thousand Roads to Mecca: Ten Centuries of Travelers Writing About the Muslim Pilgrimage. Born of a Christian mother and Jewish father, he is most well known for his documentary on ABC’s Nightline which aired on April 18, 1997 called An American in Mecca. Gai Eaton, a former British diplomat now in his seventies. His influential work ‘Islam and the Destiny of Man’ has become required reading for bright young Anglo-Saxons turning to his adopted faith, often as an expression of dissatisfaction with a Western culture that appeared to have offered them everything. Matthew Wilkinson made headlines when he converted and changed his name to Tariq in 1993; he was a former Eton head boy. He and Nicholas Brandt, another Etonian and the son of an investment banker, swapped their destinies as scions of the Establishment for a Slough semi shared with four other Muslims. Colonel Donald S. Rockwell, U.S.A. Poet, Critic and Author. "The universal brotherhood of Islam, regardless of race, politics, color or country, has been brought home to me most keenly many times in my life -- and this is another feature which drew me towards the Faith." William Pickthall now known as Muhammad Marmaduke Pickthall – He was born in 1875 in London. He converted to Islam in 1917 and by 1930 Pickthall published The Meaning of the Glorious Koran; which was an English language translation (meaning) of the Qur’an. Margaret Marcus now known as Maryam Jameelah Jewish American essayist, poet, journalist and author of several books. She converted from Judaism to Islam in 1962. Matthew Franklin - world champion boxer. In 1977, in just his 21st pro fight, Matthew knocked out veteran Marvin Johnson in the 12th round to win the NABF light heavyweight crown. By 1979, he was ready to challenge Marvin Johnson for the world title and the WBC champion. They met on April 22nd, Matthew scored an eighth-round knockout to win the title. Shortly after becoming champion, he converted to Islam and changed his name to Matthew Saad Muhammad. Eddie Gregory - world champion lightweight boxer. It was March 31, 1980, and Gregory -- a light heavyweight from the Brownsville section of New York City -- had just defeated Marvin Johnson by 11th-round knockout in Knoxville to win the World Boxing Association championship. He marked the occasion by announcing his name change, to Eddie Mustafa Muhammad, in deference to the Islamic faith he had recently come to embrace. Boxers Mike Tyson, Mustafa Hamsho , Akbar Muhammad and Dwight Braxton - world champion boxer now known as Dwight Muhammad Qawi Daniel Moore - Anglo-American poet now known as Abd al-Hayy Moore Aminah Assilmi - Denver area broadcast journalist; now director of the International Union of Muslim Women (former Baptist) CONCLUSION These are some of the famous converts to Islam. They have found happiness and peace of mind in Islam. They have found the answers to the questions of life in Islam. No matter who you are if one studies Islam they will be in no doubt that it is the religion of truth which is from God Almighty and the best way of life. source http://www.therevival.co.uk/revivalissues/faces_of_islam.htm

Old habits die hard.

I think it's a nice nightmare.

Amin. But is he technically aiding the enemy of Muslims?

MashaAllah, these 'couple of nomads' must be extremely observant.

I am glad people liked it. There's a paper I have called 'THE LAND OF THE GODS'. It's a brief study of "Somali etymology and its historio-linguistic potential". It is quite interesting and gives a different perspective to the ill-documeneted history of the Somali people. I will try and post it some time inshaAllah.

Salafi_Online, The grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia made Hajj only a spiritual journey and banned any political aspect to it. Do some research sxb. can you name those Sunnies who practise intercession and their reasons as to why they practise it? Keep in mind the following! Sufis do, as to why they do it, you should ask a Sufi. Brother can i have refer as to where all the Saudi Ulaa made this decision. it is a well known fact that some of the Ulam opposed the invasion, Albani being one of them, even though he is not a saudi Scholar! Uthaymin and others! Over 300 scholars were summoned to debate the issue and in the end ibn Baz issued a fatwa, the rest is history. I don't know which ones were for and against, but the majority of them had to have agreed to it to pass. brother as for, Saadam what is the speech of the scholar concerning his belief? how do you know he is a muslim? doesnt he belong to the atheist ba'ath party? How do you know Hosni Mubarak, King Abdullah, Hafez al Asad etc are Muslims? They are all secular leaders just like Saddam was. We can question everyone's faith sxb, but that is a dangerous thing to do. We could call the Saudi monarchy infidels for letting the americans suck the Saudi waelth for decades, we could brand the sheikhs heretics for inviting infidels etc etc. But suhannaAllah, we have to be careful because we are not the judge of that, Allah SWT is. third, this holy land you speak of is that All of saudiyah or just mecca and medinah? if say the latter, then brother can you please give me reference to when and where in mecca and medinah the Americans were situated? Don't get smart with me mate. Are you trying to justify the presence of the americans because they weren't stationed in Mecca or Medina? Do you think it is good to have a branch of McDonalds in Mecca? What does that say about us? fourth is it permisable to have a threaty with the kafir or not? Did the messenger of allah have threat with the kufar? A treaty is permissible but siding with them, paying for their expenses of war towards Muslims, giving them bases to launch an attack on Muslims and helping them in any way to fight against your fellow Muslims isn't.

Devil's Advocate, Not necessarily a flaw if you are familiar with Somali history. One cannot simply say that it started in Egypt, because the Somalis history is very much intertwined with ancient Egypt; plus there weren't these clear borders we used today which were drawn by the colonialists when slicing up our continent. Also, as rudy stated earlier, the famous Egyptian Queen Hatshepsut made a voyage to the Land of Punt in 1,500 BC. There even was contact between Ancient Egypt and people of the Land of Punt many years before the visit of Hatshepsut. Some Egyptian gods names can also be found in the language of the people of The Land of Punt i.e. the Sungod RA (Ray, Re). The Somali word for 'slaughter' is GOWRAC, literally meaning 'cut for RAC' .

Quantum Leap, Some things have changed nowadays... If she is young, her dress will be youthful ; if she is old, it will avoid showiness. ...middle aged women (generally wesetrn) try all they can to look like teenagers. Baashi, I think that is cool! The westernised individuals who think they are modernised usually shy away from traditional dressing. I applaude leaders like Mandela, Obasanjo, Gaddafi and Castro who don't dress like westerners with suits but instead have their own styles.

Nur, I am sorry if I failed to practice what I preach, it is an exception this time, but I congratulate you for being a true shia in action as you practice hiding your motives very well to dfened yourself against Naasib Sunni. As time goes by, I see more and more sides to you, of late it has been less pleasant than usual. As a Muslim, you should be giving me the benefit of the doubt, but you choose not to. I refuse to call myself Sunni or Shi'a, but Muslim. Allah SWT is my witness that you are wrong in what you say about me, but I forgive you in my heart. -I pray with my hands on my chest and not on the sides like a Maliki or an Ithna Cashari (a prejudiced Shi'a man once told me that I am still holding on to the statues of jahilliya). -I prefer the Iranian theocratic govt the corrupt Saudi monarchy. -I have nothing but love and respect for the Ahl al Bayt. -I don't use clay from Kerbala (or approve the use of it) when prostrating. -I believe the Qur'an is complete. -I don't know enough about Imams to form my opinion as to whether they are infallible, but believe that Our Noble Prophet PBUH was. The only think that stains his perfect record is the Sunni translation of 'Abasa, which you refused to respond to. -I don't dismiss mysticism like you do, but I am not aiming or planning to do some soul travelling. I could continue the list and even you can't figure out what I am, whether I am a Sunni, Shi'a or something else. So sxb, put down your axe and take a deep breathe, for I ain't hiding anything.

Do you believe the materials I posted are from Shia sources? Do you believe if they exisit that they are reliable Shia sources? I mean Kuleiny's Al Kaafi book and the other sources? Al-Kulaini's works are revered by the Shi'a and his compilations are widely used. I personally don't have or own Al-Kafi (or have access to it) and therefore cannot deny or confirm whether what you claim is from al-Rawdah. You owe me an asnwer, you have once asked me bluntly who was right, Mucaawiyah or Ali, I didnt beat around the bush like you, I said " in that dispute Ali was right" That's the second time you're referring to it; makeing it sound like it was really difficult for you to answer. Was it? By the way, I made a ducaa for you in my prayer, that rules out hatred. I always made du'a for you, ever since you were in Somalinet. Hoping you get strength to keep doing what you do, and get guidance to do the right thing in the right manner. So there isn't any ill-intention on my side either. The best way for you to have any constructive discussion regarding this subject would be to adress one issue at a time, with Mutakalim. He is willing to discuss with you but seems discouraged by the 'facts' you are hurling around. Take up his offer and the maybe the rest of us will learn something in the process. For now, it looks like words are being hurled from side to side.

My dad wrote this piece for an East African magazine called Safari many years ago. I initially posted it on Somalinet two years ago and thought I should share it with my fellow Nomads. The tale behind women's circumcision The story of Arrawelo remains the best known of all Somali folk tales. A pre-Islamic pagan queen, it is she who ruled the entire Somali-speaking world at a time when the Somali sun god Ra- subsequently co-opted, it is said, by the ancient Egyptians-held sway as the supreme diety in the universe. The exact locality in Somaliland of the pagan quuen`s fabled seat of power remains a mystery. But its whereabouts is still of much speculation, and there are in the Horn of Africa any number of ancient mounds and heaps of stone that one time or another have been claimed by local communities as marking the tomb and final resting place of Arrawelo. The Queen`s notoriety stems from her unparelleled cruelty to men. Legend has it that as a girl Arrawelo was the unfortunate victim of a brutal rape. This so embittered her that she later came to power her long reign was given over wholly to exacting her revenge - on the entire male sex. In an uncompromising crusade, she set out to empower women through having all her male subjects forcibly castrated, so creating in Somaliland a whole generations of eunuchs. Arrawelo, though, was haunted by misgivings that somewhere, some men might elude emasculation at her hands, and that one of their number would one day engineer her downfall. Accordingly, she introduced a strict code of precautionary dos and don'ts for women, including the infamous injunction that they were always to say NO when they actually meant YES, and YES when they meant NO. She is also said to have lectured women endlessly on how to maintain their dignity in the face of possible approaches by maverick men. To flush out those few wily men whose intact manhood, she was convinced, posed a threat to her absolute rule, Arrawelo devised a series of seemlingly impossible demands and riddles, which - she belived - only such men would be able to solve. Thus on one occasion, the neurotic queen instructed a community of villagers to supply her with camel-load of fruits from the Lote tree, stipulating that the fruits be brought before her on the bare back of the animal without using any form of container. Try as they might, the villagers could find no way of fulfilling this demand. For, no matter how balanced, the fruits would simply roll off again as soon as the camel was made to walk. The Queen, for a while, while berating the poor villagers on each failure, was secretly satisfied, all was well she thought, reasoning that the inhabitants of the village must indeed be either women or eunuchs. Then one day, to her surprise, she was told that a camel-load was waiting for her outside her chambers. Her worst suspicions were soon confirmed, the feat had been orchestrated by one Oday Biqe, a reclusive village elder who had managed to get the fruits to stay in place by first smearing the camel`s back with a thick viscous mixture of bird lime and mud. With the help of further layers of this sticky paste, baked hard in the sun, the fruits - piled high on the camel`s back - had easily withstood the rigours of the journey. For his trouble, Oday Biqe was ruthlessly hunted down by Arrawelo`s knife-wielding minions, although in one version of the tale the old man died before the pursuing mob could do its worst. All the same, the offending organ was summarily cut from the dead man`s body and carried aloft to the savage queen as proof that her order had been carried out. Arrawelo`s own secret fears - that an undocted male would bring about her demise - were to prove well-founded. For one night a youthful stepson of hers, who had long since fled for fear of being an example of and emasculated, returned in disguise and drove a spear into the old queen`s chest, thus putting and end to the perpetual misery of men. After the Queen`s death, long suffering Somali men wasted no time in conspiring to get even with their womenfolk. Their immediate recourse was to introduce the practise of female circumcision, which they felt would forever serve to censure womankind for the untold misery that Arrawelo had once inflicted on the male sex. And so it is, the story goes, that many women, not just in Somalia but in many other lands as well are fated to go on paying the penalty for Queen Arrawelo`s legendary cruelty.

Oh, you finally decided to adress me? Now who is loosing his cool bro? I am not as scholar, and the way you have conducted yourself throught this discussion doesn't eve qualify as civil. Mutakalim was ready to embark on a discussion but you decided to walk on the track you had set out for yourself and have the audacity to demand others to follow it. I posted that story from a Shi'a website as a source of information to you; If you didn't like it or agree with it, just say so sxb. You said on another thread (Where did Da'wah(the call to) Salafiyah Originate? (Page 2))that... I still believe that Salafi or Sunni, or any name that is not simply "Muslim" is an innovation, because neither the Messenger of Allah nor the Khulafaa have sanctioned these names, thus they are bidcah. Howver one can say, "I a Muslim, and I strive to follow the example of Prophet Muhammad SAWS and the GOOD SALAF" Why don't you practise what you preach Nur? Why would you still insist on that I call myself something YOU personally deem to be innovative?

Nur, Of all those who came to defend Shia, you are the only sane and honest voice so far, others wouldnt even come forward to admit they are Shia until you posted your rebuttal. Then I must be one of the less sane and dishonest people because I didn't admit to being Sh'ia. You said on another thread (Where did Da'wah(the call to) Salafiyah Originate? (Page 2))that... I still believe that Salafi or Sunni, or any name that is not simply "Muslim" is an innovation, because neither the Messenger of Allah nor the Khulafaa have sanctioned these names, thus they are bidcah. Howver one can say, "I a Muslim, and I strive to follow the example of Prophet Muhammad SAWS and the GOOD SALAF" Why is it you want me to call myself SUNNI ir SHI'A? Can't you see here that you are NOT practising what you preach? Bro Nur, I have seen how you act when you are cornered; you fight fight dirty by discrediting your 'opponents', patronising and belittling them. You have chosen to ignore everything I asked or directed at you because I refused to answer whther I was Shi'a nor Sunni. But that doesn't discourage me bro.

Good for him. It's embarassing to wither away like we've seen happen to Frank DeBoer. That dude doesn't know when to call it quits.

The premiership looks interesting this coming season. I think it will be between Arsenal and Chelsea this year too. Man U is always man U, they can suprise the others just like they did with Bayern in the 1999 final. They can hit back when you least expect them to.

More entertaining, maybe, but not better quality. It is not highly regraded, just look at the absence of big names like Ronaldo, Roberto Carlos, Ronaldinho and Kaka from the Brazilian team. They were left out of the Copa America and the coach has been experimenting with new players for the world cup qualifiers.

Devil's Advocate, Its funny though that not one man stood up and said what majority of the women here are stating about the realities of the modern mosque and its accomodation towards women. This is not a feminist issue. It's simply an issue. It's not only the brothers who don't share your views. You are the one making it a feminist issue by ignoring what some sisters said. Look at the response from sisters who didn't share your view... Ameenah... There are some very good Mosques in London. London Central Mosque and Al-Tawheed (Leyton) and East Londonall have two sections for sisters. One area they can eat and sit with their kids and another that is exclusive for prayer. Alxamdulilah. I think most new Masjids are taking this on board. Yasmine... Are mosques really sister-friendly? I think the answers vary depending on personal experience. Of the ones I’ve seen in Canada, I would say yes. If you live in a metropolitan area, especially one with a large Muslim population, there are usually many mosques to choose from if you don’t find a particular one accommodating. Here is a link that can be useful... http://www.islam.tc/ask-imam/view.php?q=2291