Modesty, How are the mortality rates, literacy rates, malnutrition rates, number of doctors per 1000 people? How is agriculture doing? How is the safety of the general public upheld? Are taxes paid in order to sustain a public service? Is there a public service?

Salafi, Wouldn't you know virtue if it slapped you in the face? Mutakalim, You are welcome sxb.

Rahima, Sis, surahs al-Fatir and al-Zumar that you quote above refer to people who worship or give 'partnership' to Allah SWT. It has nothing to do with intercession. I quoted the following surahs that show that intercession is permissible; al-Nisaa 4.64... "O Allah, indeed You have said, Had they, who had wronged themselves, come to you and asked Allah's forgiveness and the Apostle had asked forgiveness for them, they would have certainly found Allah Most-Propitious, Most-Merciful" Suratul Maryam 19:87 "None shall have the power of intercession except such a one as has received permission or a promise from Allah the Most Gracious." There's a few posts initiated on teh Islam pages regarding this issue, please take it up with ther initiator of the threads for further discussions, it could be intructive. About the sheikh you mentionned, ibn Baz, and his rulings, didn't he say that the earth was flat? How could that be "in the best interest of the Muslims"? This is man who died a few years ago, after the invention of the satelite and numerous other scientific endeavors that refute his claim. These are things I don't understand.

Viking thinks that perhaps overthrowing some of the Middle Eastern puppets is one baby step closer to that goal. Who is going to replace them and how are we going to ensure they are the right people for the job he didn’t say. Look at what hapenned in Iran (has nothing to with Shi'ism). Pahlavi Shah was as immoral as they come; he privatised Iranian oil, tried to westernise his people and plant secularism in their hearts etc. Alcohol, pork, prostitution and every sort of vice was practiced openly with the blessings of USA and GB. Then came a pious old man who brought about a bloodless revolution. The people of Iran refused to be led by Pahlavi, an immoral leader, they deposed his regime and replaced it with an Islamic govt. So, today there's the Governing Gouncil of pious men who make sure that the politicians who run the country do so in accordance with the law of Allah SWT. A theocracy was born! What I would like to see in other Muslim countries is a revolution similar to the one in Iran. It would be going against their marionette leaders and their masters, but it would be in the interest of the people. The spirit of the iranian revolution was feared by Arabs and thewesterners so much that Saddam staretd the Iran-Iraq war. The Saudi govt was also afraid of the effects the revolution it had that they passed some new laws that would limit the influence it might have on its people. Salafi, Saying that we shouldn't depose immoral leaders is absurd. What is wrong with deposing a cruel, immoral secular govt and replacing him with an Islamic one?

It would be very interesting to visit the Xinjiang region and experience their way of life.

I actually thought it was an OK documentary, atleast not as bad as many of you make it out to be. Mr Howe wanted to show the differences between the immigrant communities of his time when compared to today's. He managed to show that there is clear hostility amongst the different groups and that it was mainly based on bigotry and ignorance. Every group was depicted as racist in the documentary and Somalis weren't particularly the 'victims' in this case. The Asians were depicted as the most evil group because we could clearly hear their racist views. It is true that the Asians have the highest rates of heart diseases; their diet, lack of ecxercise, work and prestation related stress are the main causes. They are also more successful than the other communities but saying that it is purely based on hard work is not the complete truth. Asians have always been treated better and given more opportunities to develop by colonialist Britain. One can look back at colonialism in Africa (and its effect) to see evidence of such favouritism. That favouritism is unfortunately very present in Britain today but many people don't realise. These economical differences between communities can be erased when the conditions are fair. Kenya is a good example of a place where Asians have been the dominant force in business (mainly due to the relationship they have had with the govt) but have in the last few years been almost completely kept out of business by the vibrant Somali community. The Asian community in Kenya have tried (using dodgy tools) to change the situation but has backfired in their face every time. Today, the 'Oxford Street' of Nairobi is in the Somali dominated Eastleigh instead of Moi Avenue where the Asains had their businesses.

Aeryn Sun, There's a lot of male issues to discuss but there isn't a place to do it. If the issue is i.e. qaad, it will be seen as whining when taken up in the women's section, don't you think? Imagine 'women issues' like hijab, pregnancy etc being discussed in a men's section or not having a section to discuss it. Isn't that a bit peculiar? My suggestions? It would be better to rename the women's section something else if the problem is space.

SCORPION_SISTA, It's all hormonal! Testicles are exposed while the ovaries aren't. Men have androgens such as testosterone produced in the testes while women have their oestrogen production in the ovaries. So what happens is, when the testes are exposed to the ingredients of the pheromones from the flirting female, production begins and the ego takes over. Women on the other hand have their ovaries well sheathed in an insulation of lipids surrounding their lower abdominals. Therefore they are less exposed to the chemicals from males and that makes them have less issues with fidelity

Devil's Advocate, There isn't a problem to be solved! There are more divisions in Islam than are present here on SOL. Our Noble Prophet PBUH said that we would split into 73 sects and only one would be on the right path. You've probably been exposed to two or three sects on these forums and already seem very confused. If my memory isn't failing me, you initated a thread asking people what madhab they belonged to. You got all sorts of responses but it seems that you hadn't really undersood the implications. PS:...and a discussion board should not be your primary source of Islamic knowledge. Baashi, I declared my ignorance on several occasions mister! :cool:

Nur, About your post, there are two things that I do not agree with. The first is the story of ibn Saba being the man behind Shi'ism; I am sorry, I just don't buy that old propaganda that has been accepted as factual by some. The second thing was the part where you said that "the first person after his wife Khadiija to beleive in him was Abubakar Radiyallahu canhu", which I also pointed out. The first people to accept Islam were... 1. Khadija 2. Ali 3. Abu Bakr (some say Zayd, the servant) 5. Uthman ...may Allah be have mercy on their souls. Since your post says "to be continued", I'll be looking forward to reading the second part and to Mutakalim's contribution. As for the "core issues", they were supposed to be debated by him.

Nur, Thank you for informing me on this simple matter of Islamic jurisprudence. But, I have always been taught (and read) that Ali accepted islam before Abu bakr (may Allah have mercy on their souls). However you twist and turn it, one person took the shahada before the other. If you had jurisprudence in mind, why then did't you put the name of Zayd ibn Haritha, Uthman ibn 'Affan, Zubayr etc. in front of Ali on your list of people who first accepted Islam? Did Ali become baaligh before they accepted Islam?

NGONGE, The solutions needed today is to be done at a grassroot level. Efforts need to be made by parents, educating their children as much as they can in both dunya and akhira. As for the khalifa, it will come when the people are ready. As you know...there's a swahili saying that says..DALILI YA MVUA NI MAWINGU. The clouds can help you tell if there is rain on the way. As Muslims we are not showing evidence of untiy AT ALL, so all talk about khalifa at this stage is merely idealistic. People of the Darfur region need food, Bangladeshis need help, Chechnyan's, Somalis, Palestinians etc need peace and a place to call home. But despite all those people in acute need, the Saudis are sending ONE BILLION DOLLARS (plus possibly an army) to Iraq, to help repair the mess that was created by the americans. Talk about knowing theri priorities! Who needs a govt like that? We don't have a country that speaks for the Muslims. Turkey and Iran are the only two who come close to fulfil this role. If we have a country that speaks for our people, then we could accomplish something. Turkey is being choked by some reeking secularists who are trying to extinguish the fire of Islam and Iran is under the scope of the americans (and other countries would undermine their role because of the Sunni-Shi'a differences). Allah SWT has promised us success in this world and the hereafter, so don't despair mate. All we need is to make the effort and the tides will turn.

dawoco and the rest, You are all falling for the stereotype; men should talk sports and politics while women should keep to relationships, love, romance and family issues. Why should men be directed to the sports (or politics) section and women to a 'women's' section? I am not for erasing the gender differences, but not every man is into sports and not every woman is a romantic, family oriented person. If someone would like to raise some MALE issues... like let's say... 'problems Somali men are facing in the western world', where does the person post it? Under chit-chat general, women or sports? I am not looking to revolutionise SOL but merely asking a genuine question. Why have a women's if and not a men's section? Is it only women who have issues (because that would be very jigoistic to say)?

NGONGE, It is the duty of every Iraqi to rise up against the americans. It was their duty to even rise up and overthrow Saddam many years ago, he shouldn't have been left to rule them for so long. All the leaders in the Muslim countries (Mubarak, Asad et al.) should be overthrown by their own people and Islam should be the ruling party, not some pseudo-socialist/communist party supported by the west to oppress their own people. The Islamic resurgence hapenned in Iran, it almost hapenned in Algeria and Turkey and should be hapenning everywhere, InshaAllah.

Nur, This looks more structured and inshaAllah I am (like many others) looking forward to benefit a great deal from the discussions to come. I would like to point out an error you made when you said... When the revelations came down to Muhammad SAWS, the first person after his wife Khadiija to beleive in him was Abubakar Radiyallahu canhu, his cousin Ali who was a young boy The first one to accept Islam was offcourse Khadija bint Khuwaylid, but the next person was Ali ibn Abi Talib and the THIRD was Abu Bakr as-Siddiq (may Allah have mercy on their souls). Ali ibn Abi Talib was the first MALE to accept Islam and even in some literature, it is said that Zayd ibn Harithah was the thrid person to accept Islam, Allah SWT knows best.

The Saudi regime, like Pakistan, Bangladesh and Morocco show no shame. When the Islamic values and her ummah are being slaughtered in Kashmir, Palestine, Iraq, Gujarat (India) and Afghanistan, their armies are chained to their barracks and prevented from fulfilling their Islamic duty. Yet when the US calls for the protection of her soldiers and her interests, only then do these governments come running and unleash their armies. How clear is the treachery and humiliation. It's very true what the author says in this article. The Saudi govt and other secular govts in Muslim countries should be overthrown because they don't serve the interest of Muslims. After the Islamic Revolution of Iran, the leaders of these corrupt Middle Eastern nations felt the heat and momentum of the revolution and were terrified that the same could happen on their lands. Saddam, with the help of USA and GB started a war with Iran which lasted 8 years. The Saudi govt have prohibited any demonstrations held during the Hajj period by Muslims across the world protesting against their govt, fearing that the monarchy and sheikhs would be ousted and a theocratic govt would be born. It's sad to see how they run errands for these western nations while they ignore millions and millions of Muslims in dire straits. Somalia, Chechnya, Palestine, Sudan (current crisis in Darfur), Bangladesh (the current floods sweeping the poor nation) etc are just some examples of where the more wealthier Muslim nations have failed their brothers and sisters in Islam.

CUTE_LILGIRL, I don't think there is such a thing as friendship between people of the opposite sex. There must be an interest from one party in order to maintain the relationship as friends. The interest is usually maintained by the help of the third party...sheitan.

How can we dismiss something we haven't tried? I haven't yet heard any rational explanation as to why the should be a women section and not a men section. If it's a section for 'relationships and romance' as it says on the women's section, then maybe that's what it should be called. Is it a section FOR women or a section for TALKING ABOUT women? I don't really get it. I have been browsing SOL for the past three years or so but I only started browsing the women's section after I had joined as a member a few months ago...I always used to think..ooh..not there...that's a place for women only. Viking waa u jeedaa gabdhahaa wax kaste in loo sameeyey. Qaar koodna (Ciidamada faraha ku sugada leh) ee wili nadaba joogaan oo ee leeyihin nin this nin that. wareer badana ma cudur nin layiraahdo bee qabaan. Feebaro, Wareerka waxaa keeney wax yaalahan oo kale. Everyone should be treated equally, if we treat women like victims then they'll keep acting like victims. loool @ "geberi maanyo jiis ah",

I was wondering when the derogatory term 'rafidi' would drop in this discussion. Not suprisingly, it has been dragged in by the most open minded individual on this site.

Baashi, I bailed out on this discussion a long time ago because of lack of basic knowledge required to drive forth such a discussion. If I am not mistaken, I think Mutakalim had asked Nur to discuss issues of 'Aqidah only to begin with but I see issues of mut'a, donkeys speaking, (alleged) Al Tusi quotes etc flying around on every other post. Like you and many others, I do not possess Al-Kulayni's works and the other sources Nur is claiming to quote from. So I am too a by-stander who isn't gaining much from this topic.

Darman, I am glad you came to your senses and removed those pictures. They are of no help to anyone here, but just deepen the hatred between Muslims.

Shujui, Do you think that Roma can challenge the Rossoneri? Is their any team (except La Vecchia Signora) that has the manpower, experience and confidence to challenge them this year? The Rossoneri might not be buying for the future, but players like Crespo and Stam strengthen an already very strong squad and have atleast a good couple of years to perform at the highest level. FORZA MILAN!

-Why is there a women's section but no men's section on SOL? -Is it assumed that all the other sections are 'for men' and therefore women were given one? -For the sake of fairness and gender equality, shouldn't there also be a men's section on these boards? I am just wondering what the thoughts of my fellow nomads are on this issue.

I am curently working on a post that will explain the basis of the Shia religion, toi show that the Shia worship the imaams as gods other than Allah SWT, that they have changed the context of the religion that they are committing major shirk , but till I post, for the sake of balancing your claim, here are many sources of Shia scholars sources on the honorable imaams: Nur, For the sake of fairness, isn't it better if you first produced your evidence that proves their transgression and then let the readers make up their mind? Accusing a people of shirk is a major sin if you have nothing concrete to back it up with.

Baashi, Bro, waxba kuma dhaami sxb. I am also curious and as bro Nur said, "we should seek knowledge from cradle to grave". I am curious about many things, i.e. regarding infallibility of the Prophet PBUH. Sunnis say that Our prophet PBUH ignored a blind man because he was talking to some 'important people' and then 'Abasa was revealed. The Shi'a say that it was actually a companion who ignored the blind man and not the prophet PBUH. I asked Nur but never got a response. There are a million such questions I ask myself and hope InshaAllah to find the correct answers to them. So sxb you are not alone. I give you the benefit of the doubt and assume they were known among the sahaba in the days of prophet PBUH. I did not claim that Shi'at was known during the time of the Prophet PBUH. I was just referring to Mutakalim's post.