That being said, I don’t agree with his premise. The premise that physicists (atheists being the majority) and Sufis (Muslim) share similar worldview is arguably a misleading statement. Baashi, I'm not good with terms but I think there's a difference between worldview and view of the world.

There are two ways of knowing the Truth. One way is through faith and the other through reason. Religion is based on faith whereas philosophy is based on reason. Baashi, Faith and reason can (and do) go hand in hand as it was demonstrated by Prophet Ibrahim (AS). He destroyed all the idols while the polytheists were away and lay the axe he had used on the shoulder of the biggest idol. When the polytheists came back, to their dismay, they found that all but one if their gods were destroyed. They approached Ibrahim (AS) because they knew he was against idolatry. He told them to ask the big idol, for he must have done it out of rage. They said that it was just an idol and was unable to do anything. Ibrahim (AS) used the faculty of reason to demonstrate that they were wrong in having idols as gods. What do you think about Chinese philosphy? It was mainly practical, lacked metaphysics and obsessed with ethics. They also have a very regressive theory of history, believing that the best time is in ths past (7th century for us?) and humanity has decayed ever since. If you look closely, you'll realise that our Islamic literalists seem to have a lot in common with them. Practical philosphers have always thought that speculative philosphers are "in over their heads" (usually out of ignorance) while the latter doesn't discredit the importance of the former. I beleive that a civilisation needs a balance of the two, living in symbiosis and not at loggerheads. xiinfaniin, Human knowledge is indeed inept, but how would you explain the kind of knowledge held by a man like Khidr? He is/was a saint/Prophet (Allah SWT knows best) who demonstrated that losses might be gain, cruelty may be mercy etc etc.

But who is the best TODAY??? PlayMaker, I think Northerner had asked this previously. I would say... Eto'o (Barca and Cameroon) Drogba (Chelsea and Ivory Coast) Toure (Ars and Ivory Coast) Idris Kameni (Espanyol and Cameroon goalie) Obafemi Martins (Inter and Nigeria) Michael Essien (Lyon and Ghana - Arsenal among other top sides are said to be chasing him for 17m pounds :eek: )

The correct teaching of the Prophet is to excel in worshiping Allah not to be Him, but to serve Him. xinfaniin, This has always been the case when things are taken literally. Do you believe in hypnosis or at least understand it? Let's say you were hypnotised and did certain things that the hypnotists told you to do i.e. floating in space or that you are being chased by a pack of wolves. Physically, you might be lying on the couch in his office, but your "soul" or "consciousness" has taken off and is experiencing the things that the hypnotist is describing. The experiences you had would be very difficult to explain to someone who hasn't experienced the power of the mind through hypnosis and definately wouldn't make sense to them. How would you get them to believe that you actually "experienced" being chased by a pack of wolves or that you "actually" were floating in space? This might be a lousy analogy and I stand to be corrected by people who have deep knowledge in gnosticism.

Viking sax thats the dude, whatever happened to him he seemed to just disappeared? He played in the Bundesliga with Hamburg for a few years and then went to the Middle East where he just faded away. That dude had a mean strike!

Viking Sxb, most of those players in that team were not even established players yet and I am referring to the likes of Didier Dechamps, Marcel Desailly and Allen Boksic, they all became super stars after they came to Italy, do you honestly want to say that Desailly or Dechamps were world class players before they came to AC and Juve respectively or Bocsic before he came to Juve? BOB, There's a difference between TALENTED and ESTABLISHED. If you look back at what I said earlier, you'll realised taht I used the word talented. Boksic, Deschamps, Desailly, Angloma and were very talented then, why else would Juve, Milan and Inter (respectively) pay for their services? Abedi Pele was born in 1962, while Desailly and Deschamps were born 1968. Pele was 31 when he won the Champions League with Marseille while Deschamps and Desailly were only 25 years old. That explains why people came to know about them later on (while playing in Italy), they were SIX years his junior and won most of their trophies while in Italy. Even George Weah had world class players all around him and when I say world class I am talking about established players all over the pitch from the goalie Rossi all the way to Dejan Savicevic, we are talking about the AC Milan that left the great Roberto Baggio on the bench. Now this is where you are mistaken sxb! I knew Weah was a GREAT player before he even joined Milan. He was even more of a wizard when he played for Monaco and PSG, until Milan bought him in 1995/96. He won his World best Player award the same year, he was noticed by everyone because he played for one of the biggest teams in Europe. While playing in Italy, he didn't even do half the tricks he did during his years in France. He played in France for 7 years and only 4 years in Italy. by the way Viking,you chose George Weah before Abedi Pele and i was i wondering if it's because Weah played for your team Ac Milan? Just asking Sxb Absolutely not! Zidane has been my absolute favourite player the last 7 years or so and he played for Juve and Real, the fiercest rivals of Milan and Braca, two of my favourite teams. I'm not the kind of fan who praises a team even when they are crap just because I support them. I like Milan because of their offensive style of football, that's the same reason Barca and Ajax are my two other fav teams in Europe. There aren't any three teams that are as entertaining (or have been the past 10 years) and exciting to watch as those three, be honest now, are there?

A clash of the Gnostics and the Literalists! Mutakalim, I am in the belief that gnosticism is esoteric and will always stir things up when explained to the masses.

BOB, Abedi Pele was a very good player. I remember how instrumental he was for Marseille, but don't forget that he had many talented players beside him. Players like Desailly, Voller, Angloma, Boli, Deschamps, Allen Boksic and even Barthez the clown! You know what all these players went on to achieve. But I would rank Weah as the best and most talented African player. He did things with the ball that are usually done Brazilians. He was a wizard who terrified the best defenders in Italy every weekend. If I were to rank the top five players in terms of talent and also to some degree their achievements, it'd be... 1. Weah (only African player to win World Player of the Year award; plus 2 time winner of African player of the year award). 2. Abedi Pele (3 time winner of the African Player of the year award). 3. Roger Miller ('90 African Player of the Year and also the man who introduced "dancing" goal celebrations to the world with his dancing at the corner post during world cup 1990). 4. Kalusha Bwalya ('88 African Player of the Year) 5. Thomas N'kono (2 time winner of African Player of the year award) rokko, I think it was Anthony Yeboah.

Baashi, Check out the article below... ------------------------------------------------- SUFISM AND QUANTUM PHYSICS Ibrahim B. Syed, Ph. D. President Islamic Research Foundation International, Inc. 7102 W. Shefford Lane Louisville, KY 40242-6462, USA E-mail: IRFI@INAME.COM Website: http://WWW.IRFI.ORG There are parallels in Sufism and in quantum theory. A view of the world is very similar to the views, held by Sufis and modern physicists. In contrast to the mechanistic world view of the Westerners, for the Sufis all things and events perceived by the senses are interrelated, connected, and are but different aspects or manifestations of the same ultimate reality. For Sufis “Enlightenment†is an experience to become aware of the unity and mutual interrelation of all things, to transcend the notion of an isolated individual self, and to identify themselves with the ultimate reality. An exact science is expressed in the highly sophisticated language of modern mathematics, whereas Tasawwuf is based on meditation and insists on the fact that Sufis’ insight cannot be communicated verbally. Reality as experienced by the Sufis is completely indeterminate and undifferentiated. Sufis never see the intellect as their source of knowledge but use it merely to analyze and interpret their personal Tasawwuf experience. The parallel between scientific experiments and Tasawwuf experiences may seem surprising in view of the very different nature of these acts of observation. Physicists perform experiments involving an elaborate teamwork and a highly sophisticated technology, whereas the Sufis obtain their knowledge purely through introspection, without any machinery, in the privacy of meditation or Dhikr. To repeat an experiment in modern elementary particle physics one has to undergo many years of training. Similarly, a deep Tasawwuf experience requires, generally, many years of training under an experienced master. The complexity and efficiency of the physicist’s technical apparatus is matched, if not surpassed, by that of the mystic’s consciousness-both physical and spiritual-in deep Dhikr. Thus the scientists and the Sufis have developed highly sophisticated methods of observing nature which are inaccessible to the layperson. DHIKR The basic aim of Dhikr is to silence the thinking mind and to shift the awareness from the rational to the intuitive mode of consciousness. The silencing of the mind is achieved by concentrating one’s attention on a single item, like one’s breathing, the sound of Allah or La Ilaha Illallah. Even performing Salat is considered as Dhikr to silence the rational mind. Thus Salat leads to the feeling of peace and serenity which is characteristic of the more static forms of Dhikr. These skills are used to develop the meditative mode of consciousness. In Dhikr, the mind is emptied of all thoughts and concepts and thus prepared to function for long periods through its intuitive mode. When the rational mind is silenced, the intuitive mode produces an extraordinary awareness; the environment is experienced in a direct way without the filter of conceptual thinking. The experience of oneness with the surrounding environment is the main characteristic of this meditative state. It is a state of consciousness where every form of fragmentation has ceased, fading away into undifferentiated unity. INISGHT INTO REALITY Sufism is based on direct insights into the nature of reality, and physics is based on the observation of natural phenomena in scientific experiments. In physics the model and theories are approximate and are basic to modern scientific research. Thus the aphorism of Einstein, “As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality.†Whenever the essential nature of things is analyzed by the intellect, it must seem absurd or paradoxical. This has always been recognized by the Sufis, but has become a problem in science only very recently, e.g. Light as wave or photon or duality of light. Great variety of natural phenomena belonged to the scientists’ macroscopic environment and thus to the realm of their sensory experience. Since the images and intellectual concepts of their language were abstracted from this very experience, they were sufficient and adequate to describe the natural phenomena. However the atomic and subatomic world itself lies beyond our sensory perception. The knowledge about matter at this level is no longer derived from direct sensory experience, and therefore our ordinary language, which its images from the world of the senses, is no longer adequate to describe the observed phenomena. As we penetrate deeper and deeper into nature, we have to abandon more and more of the images and concepts of ordinary language. Probing inside the atom and investigating its structure, science transcended the limits of our sensory imagination. From this point on, it could no longer rely with absolute certainty on logic and common sense. Quantum physics provided the scientists with the first glimpses of the essential nature of things. Like the Sufis, physicists were now dealing with a nonsensory experience of reality and, like the Sufis, they had to face the paradoxical aspects of this experience. From then on therefore, the models, and images of modern physics become akin to those of Tasawwuf of the Sufis. COMMUNICATION PROBLEM Scientists realized that our common language is not only inaccurate, but totally inadequate to describe the atomic and subatomic reality. With the advent of Relativity and Quantum mechanics in modern physics it was very clear that this new knowledge transcends classical logic and that it cannot be described in ordinary language. Similarly in Tasawwuf it has always been realized that reality transcends ordinary language and the Sufis were not afraid to go beyond logic and common concepts. The problem of language faced by the Sufi is exactly the same as the problem the modern physicist faces. Both the physicist and the Sufi want to communicate their knowledge, and when they do so with words their statements are paradoxical and full of logical contradictions. These paradoxes are characteristic of all who practice Tasawwuf and since the beginning of the 20th century they are also characteristic of modern physics. DUALITY OF LIGHT In Quantum Physics, many of the paradoxical situations are connected with the dual nature of light or – more generally – of electromagnetic radiation. Light produces interference phenomena, which is associated with the waves of light. This is observed when two sources of light are used resulting in bright and dim patterns of light. On the other hand, electromagnetic radiation also produces the “photoelectric†effect: when short wave length light such as ultraviolet light or x-rays or gamma rays strike the surface of some metals, they can “knock off†electrons from the surface of the metal, and therefore it must consist of moving particles. The question which puzzled physicists so much in the early stages of quantum theory was how electromagnetic radiation could simultaneously consist of particles (that is of entities confined to a very small volume) and of waves, which are spread out over a large area in space. Neither language nor imagination could deal with this kind of reality very well. Sufism has developed several different ways of dealing with the paradoxical aspects of reality. Works of Attar, Hafiz, Ibn Arabi, Rumi, Bastami, etc show they are full of intriguing contradictions and their compact, powerful, and extremely poetic language is meant to arrest the reader’s mind and throw it off its familiar tracks of logical reasoning. Heisenberg asked Bohr: Can nature possibly be so absurd as it seemed to us in these atomic experiments? Whenever the essential nature of things is analyzed by the intellect, it must seem absurd or paradoxical. This has always been recognized by the Sufis, but has become a problem in science in the 20 the century. The macroscopic world is in the realm of our sensory experience. Through this sensory experience one can draw images, intellectual concepts and express them in a language. This language was sufficient and adequate to describe the natural phenomena. The Newtonian mechanistic model of the universe described macroscopic world. In the 20th century the existence of atoms and subatomic particles or the ultimate “building blocks†of nature was experimentally verified. The atomic and subatomic world itself lies beyond our sensory perception. The knowledge about matter at this level is no longer derived from direct sensory experience, and therefore our ordinary language, which takes its images from the world of the senses, is no longer adequate to describe the observed phenomena. As we penetrate deeper and deeper into nature, we have to abandon more and more of the images and concepts of ordinary language. From this point on, it could no longer rely with absolute certainty on logic and common sense. Quantum physics provided the scientists with the first glimpse of the essential nature of things. Like the Sufis the physicists were now dealing with a nonsensory experience of reality and, like the Sufis, they had to face the paradoxical aspects of this experience. MODERN PHYSICS According to the Sufis, the direct mystical experience of reality is a momentous event, which shakes the very foundations of one’s worldview, that is the most startling event that could ever happen in the realm of human consciousness (as-Shuhud). Upsetting every form of standardized experience. Some Sufis describe it as “the bottom of a pail breaking through.†Physicists in the early part of the 20th century felt much the same way when the foundations of their world-view were shaken by the new experience of the atomic reality, and they described the experience in terms which were often very similar to those used by the Sufis. Thus Heisenberg wrote: “…recent developments in modern physics can only be understood when one realizes that here the foundations of physics have started moving; and that this motion has caused the feeling that the ground would be cut from science.†The discoveries of modern physics necessitated profound changes of concepts like space, time, matter, object, cause and effect, etc., and these concepts are so basic to our way of experiencing the world, that the physicists who were forced to change them felt something of a shock. Out of these changes a new and radically different world-view is born which is still in the process of formation. Quantum theory implies an essential interconnectedness of nature. Quantum theory forces us to see the universe not as a collection of physical objects, but rather as a complicated web of relations between the various parts of a unified whole. This is the way the Sufis have experienced the world. SPACE-TIME The Sufis seem to be able to attain nonordinary states of consciousness (Shuhud) in which they transcend the three-dimensional world of everyday life to experience a higher, multidimensional reality. In relativistic physics if one can visualize the four-dimensional space-time reality, there would be nothing paradoxical at all. The Sufis have notions of space and time, which are very similar to those implied by relativity theory. In Tasawwuf, there seems to be a strong intuition for the “space-time†character of reality. The Sufis have experienced a state of complete dissolution (Fana) where there is no more distinction between mind and body, subject and object. In a state of pure experience, there is no space without time, no time without space, they are interpenetrating. For the physicist the notion of space-time is based on scientific experiments whereas for the Sufi it is based on Tasawwuf. The relativistic models and theories of modern physics are illustrations of the two basic elements of Tasawwuf world-view-the Tahwid of the universe and its intrinsically dynamic character. Space is curved to different degrees, and time flows at different rates in different parts of the universe. Our notions of a three-dimensional Euclidean space and of linear flow of time are limited to our ordinary experience of the physical world and have to be completely abandoned when we extend this experience. The Sufis talk about an extension of their experience of the world in higher states of consciousness, and they affirm that these states involve a radically different experience of space and time. They emphasize not only that they go beyond ordinary three-dimensional space in meditation, but also - and even more forcefully-that ordinary awareness of time is transcended. Instead of a linear succession of instants, they experience an infinite, timeless, and yet dynamic present. In the spiritual world there are no time divisions such as the past, present and future; for they have contracted themselves into a single moment of the present where life quivers in its true sense. MASS-ENERGY EQUIVALENCE Einstein showed the mass-energy equivalence, through a simple mathematical equation, E=mc*2. Physicists measure the masses of particles in the corresponding energy units. Mass is nothing but a form of energy. This discovery has forced us to modify our concept of a particle in an essential way. Hence particles are seen as "Qunata" or bundles of energy. Thus particles are not seen as consisting of any basic "stuff." But energy is associated with activity, with processes, which means that the nature of subatomic particles is intrinsically dynamic and they are forms in four-dimensional entities in space-time. Therefore subatomic particles have a space aspect and a time aspect. Their space aspect makes them appear as objects with a certain mass, their time aspect as processes involving the equivalent energy. When subatomic particles are observed, we never see them as any substance; but what we observe is continuously changing patterns of one to the other or a continuos dance of energy. The particles of the subatomic world are not only active in the sense of moving around very fast; they themselves are processes. The existence of matter and its activity cannot be separated. They are but different aspects of the same space-time reality. The Sufis, in their nonordinary states of consciousness, seem to be aware of the interpenetration of space and time at a macroscopic level. Thus they see the macroscopic world in a way which is very similar to the physicists' idea of subatomic particles. For the Sufis "all compounded things are impermanent" - fanah. The reality underlying all phenomena is beyond all forms and defies all description and specification, hence to be formless, empty or void. To the Sufis all phenomena in the world are nothing but the illusory manifestation of the mind and have no reality on their own. CONCLUSION The principal theories and models of modern physics lead to a view of the world, which is internally consistent, and in perfect harmony with the views of Tasawwuf. The significance of the parallels between the world-views of physicists and Sufis is beyond any doubt. Both emerge when man inquires into the essential nature of things-into the deeper realms of matter in physics; into the deeper realms of consciousness in Tasawwuf-when he discovers a different reality behind the superficial mundane appearance of everyday life. Physicists derive their knowledge from experiments whereas Sufis from meditative insights. The Sufi looks within and explores his or her consciousness at its various levels. The experience of one's body is, in fact, often seen as the key to the Tasawwuf experience of the world. Another similarity between the physicist and the Sufi is the fact that their observations take place in realms, which are inaccessible to the ordinary senses. To the physicist the realms of the atomic and subatomic world; in Tasawwuf they are nonordinary states of consciousness in which the sense world is transcended. Both for the physicists and the Sufis, the multidimensional experiences transcend the sensory world and are therefore almost impossible to express in ordinary language. Quantum Physics and Tasawwuf are two complementary manifestations of the human mind; of its rational and intuitive faculties. The modern physicist experiences the world through an extreme specialization of the rational mind; the Sufi through an extreme specialization of the intuitive mind. Both of them are necessary for a fuller understanding of the world. Tasawwuf experience is necessary to understand the deepest nature of things and science is essential for modern life. Therefore we need a dynamic interplay between Tasawwuf intuition and scientific analysis.

Baashi, Both physicists and mystics have their "reality" and "knowledge" through non-sensory means. I never thought of this before Sophist's contribution but Sufis usually describe their "meditative consiousness" as something that lies outside the 3-spatial dimensions and time. This is somewhat similar to what the pro-string theorists are suggesting when they say that there might be more than the 4 dimensions we know of today (they say there's 6 other dimensions that are hidden from us). It's interesting to say the least.

Taqleed = blind faith

Originally posted by Raage: well actually im 15 years old and i have pretty mature view in life. maybe im the odd one out and dont belong on these forums So you were 12 when you joined SOL? :confused:

Northerner, Everything in life is a miracle. The Qur'an is a miracle, your life is a miracle. Look at the way your lungs, kidneys, liver, pancreas etc function, we are walking miracles...everything around you is a miracle. But as humans, Allah has bestowed us with intelligence to understand the miracles around us, we marvel and reflect upon creation and say, SubxannAllah, Allah is indeed Great. I can say that the mosque surviving the tsunami is a miracle just like the birth of a baby is; but both are comprehandable to our human intellect. In one case, a married couple copulated and the other was a result of good engineering. NOTHING HAPPENS ON THIS EARTH WITHOUT THE WILL OF ALLAH, I couldn't agree with you more sxb.

Northerner, Yes I am serious. Look at it this way, let's say your heart stops right now and you died, Allah SWT would have willed for you to die and the Angel of death would have excecuted his command. But that doesn't change the fact that the heart attack killed you (at least that's how humans explain your death). Child-birth is also a miracle, but you have to copulate (or fertilise through IVF etc.) to reproduce, but it is still Allah SWT's will for you to get an offspring.

Would we have less belief if the mosque in Banda Aceh was wiped out too? I think it has more to do with the building materials and engineering than a miracle. Allah knows best.

Mutakalim. Looking forward to your contribution sxb. Kruella, That is hoepfully the lesson to be learnt by this post. We have the choice but we have to try and make the best judgement in deciding what path to take.

I heard it costs more money...so who's ready to donate?

Viking, Are you stating that there is no such thing as Divine Decree and events are not predestined? Infact Allah has decided your final fate whether you will die a Monotheist or a Polythiest. Raganimo, What I say, I say not out of my own whims akhi, it has ample support from the Qur'an. First of all, you have to distinguish the factors that man has control over; we have no control whatsoever over matters such as sickness, "natural" disatsers (like the earthquake in Asia), blindness, death etc. They are beyond our control. But we as Muslims believe that Allah SWT will reward those who obey his commandments and punish those who disobey Him. This being a fundamental belief, we cannot again say that all is predestined because that will be denying that the Creator is Just! If Allah SWT has decided what path we'll take, this means that we can not alter (in any manner) what has been pre-ordained and therefore man cannot change his course. Take a machine as an example, it is programmed (made) to do certain things, it would be ridiculous to order (or expect) it to do something other than that it was made to do. This will be unfair since the machine can't change the way it is made to function. You cannot then decide to punish the machine for not doing what you want it to do because you never equipped it with that function to begin with. Likewise, it would be unfair to say that Allah SWT has decided our destiny (whether paradise of hell-fire) and at the same time asks us to strive to take the straight path, Siratul Mustaqeem. "Allah will not change the good condition of a people as long as they do not change their state of goodness themselves" (Ar-Rad 13:11) "Allah burdens not a person beyond his scope. He gets reward for that (good) which he has earned, and he is punished for that (evil) which he has earned." (Al-Baqarah 2:286) "Verily, We have sent down to you the Book (Qur'an) for mankind in truth. So whosoever accepts guidance, it is only for his own self, and whosoever goes astray, he goes astray only for his (own) loss." (Az-Zumar 39:41) Let's say you know that a certain group of collegues at your work place always eat lunch at noon; your knowledge does not cause them to take their lunch at that particular time. Allah SWT knows what path each human being will take, but it does not mean that His Knowledge determines the path for us. This sort of theory is the stuff the science fiction is made of. You see folks the theory is merely a theory nothing more. Bashi, This is indeed true. But we cannot be like the head of the patents in USA in the late 1800's who (after seeing the progress made by humans at that time) said that All that can be invented has been invented. Like any other theory, it has scientists for it and those who are against it. As for the mathematical aspect, I find it interesting because as a Muslim, one can imagine maybe how Allah SWT has created things and given every minute particle (physical) laws to abide to. Imagine us humans following these laws, but with a certain amound of choice to help us determine our destiny. It is interesting to say the least. Peace.

Thanks Muad, I downloaded the book and will read it InshaAllah!.

This reminded me with the little children attitudes when they were given beautiful and lovely toys. Unfortunately and because of his ignorance,one child broke his toy. Sadly, this child doesn’t know how to fix it. So all what he did was crying and screaming so that he shows his dissatisfaction and frustration to others. His babysitter who could'nt fix the toy for him brought him a new one. Ofcourse that pleased the child, but surely he (and the rest of the children) supposed to learn an important lesson which is :- Classique, Cute analogy, but you got it all wrong! It is more like the kids from different backgrounds out playing on the same field. Some have expensive toys like remote controlled cars and aeroplanes, fancy bicycles etc. while the others have no toys at all! Now, there are some people who feel like for the fairness, the toys should be somewhat shared for the hapiness of the society and the mental well-being of the poor children. But there are some individualists who think that the poor kids should stop whining and be happy for the richer kids who have all these fancy toys, how absurd! You know what that called? Well I was reading around and found the reason of all this Arab bashing!. Its simple tactic .... when one doesn't give you what you want... Which is usualy a silly requests, you scream, blame others for being the reason of your unhappiness. "They don't acknowledge their part it in they deflect and project thus elliminate any personal responibilities for their actions or their hate".<--Isn't this very true with those people!! Job well done OG-Girl! That must be the reason the billionaire Osama bin Laden hates the rulers of his homeland and left his luxury life in the wealthy Kingdom for the mountains of Afghanistan. That must be why the amir Umar bin Khattab (RA) slept under a tree when he was the leader of Muslims despite having access to the wealth of the state. That also must be the reason (the best of humanity) our Noble Prophet SAWS (with FULL access to the wealth of one of the richest people in Arabia, his wife Khadija) didn't use that wealth to build palaces but instead used it to help Muslims and to further the cause of Islam. Without that wealth, Islam wouldn't have reached any of us and the world would be a very different place. Despite having all that wealth, he still lived a very humble and simple life, free of extravagance. But maybe they were "not given what they want" as your immaculate theory states. Honesita, I doubt if there's as much oil in Somalia as there is in the Gulf (this is a common Somali fantasy) but you are true in saying that we are the architects of our downfall. But what is your message for the people in Darfur? Do you think that Muslims worldwide should even bother helping them? Who's responsibility is it to help them out of this situation (besides the govt that is oppressing them)? PS: If any of the above posters are referring to my contribution, it has nothing to do with Arab bashing; just spreading of some resources given to us by Allah SWT to the most needy Muslims. And I was initially referring to Darfur (not Somalia!), where millions of Muslim women and children are without food and shelter as we speak. But hey, we should be happy for the glossy skyscrapers our brethren are building in times like this! :mad:

JC, Please feel free to help us with these questions on the String Theory

What i didn't understand is how these vibrating strings play into our lives? do they determine if we take that bus or train? and how do mathematicall calculate such a thing! I have understood that the strings have an effect from a microscopic to an inter-galactic level! Physicists in this field believe that there are numerous universes parallel to ours, and they exist right "next" to us. Imagine you sitting by a table with a glass of water in your hand; they say that if you decide to put the glass on the table, there are numerous other (dimesnions; versions of you) doing different things with the glass. These are choices or probabilities that are there, but you only see the one you chose (putting the glass on the table). "In Linde's thory, each universe is a unique bubble of space and time equipped with its own laws of physics and its own cosmic history. These other universes may differ wildly from our own, possessing different kinds of matter, different kinds of forces, even different numbers of dimensions," she wrote. Then there is Lee Smolin, a specialist in quantum gravity at Perimer Institute in Canada, who suggests that baby universes constantly "bud" from older universes from the heart of black holes. Of course there is the belief among the occultists that each human, possessing a piece of the soul or God within them, generates his or her own universe from mere existence and thought. We all live in our own unique universe that overlaps and interacts with the universes of the people we come in contact with each day. We also believe that we have the mental ability to shape and change our universes as we choose. I enjoy carrying this concept one step farther. That is to say that each time we make a choice in life, we are, in effect, splitting our universe into two parts. In one universe we take the left road and in the other universe we turn right. We consciously follow the choice that we make and continue on that path. But in the new universe, there is a clone of ourselves following the other path and living out its consequences. With somewhere between six and seven billion people on this planet, all actively generating multiple new universes every day, it is conceivable that Polchinski's impossible number of parallel universes, calculated from the string theory way of looking at things, might be quite right. Source: http://perdurabo10.tripod.com/id553.html but i have made it a sort of modus operandi to not bring up these "what if's". As you know that everything is kept locked in the "Lawxun-Maxfuud", don't you think that questioning and wrenching your mind with "what would have happened?" and "What If's". it would prove futile wouldn't it? Raganimo, It is indeed futile, but what I'm saying is that if you had made a different choice, the outcome could have been different. If you i.e. studied more, you'd have passed the exam with a better grade. But those "ifs" should be your lesson for the future and not something to grumble upon. This post was not about whether things are pre-destined or whether we have the power to control them. A Muslim, I believe that I have a choice and the choices I make will determine whether Allah SWT will reward me or punsih me. Allah SWT has not decided that I will die a sinner or a pious person (this will make Him unjust for punishing me after He has destined hell-fire for me before I was conceived, and we know that He is Just and Merciful). He has given me the choice BUT Allah SWT being the All-Knowing, He knows what I will choose. We usually say that Allah SWT "has writen" after something has taken place, because we already know the outcome. PS: When does the string reaction commense, before or after we move? J11, I got the feeling they meant it's ongoing i believe u watch this on pov! rudy, What is pov? However I believe we should not forget that no matter what Allah decides our fate and destiny... Viking I have to admit that you lost me when you were describing these strings and their dimensions, and how do they decide or affect our fate? Sue, Allah SWT does NOT decide our destiny, he has given us free-will and he will be rewarded or punished due to the choices we make. Angels are made out of light and they have no free-will. Unlike us humans, they are unable to disobey Allah SWT, that is the reason a pious person is ranked higher than an angel. We make one choice among the array of possibilites we have at our disposal at any given occassion, i.e. you can walk only towards one direction at a time. Only after we have made that choice can we call it Qadr. So if you walk towards the left, then turn right after five metres only to fall in a ditch, that is QADR. You decide your fate, as long as you are sane! I too fail to see the connection between the string theory and what we might and might not have done. I thought this theory was an effort to address the short comings of the physics to have unified theory for the natural world. Bashi, The String Theory is applicable on every level, from the size of an electron to the galaxies. It is an attempt at getting a "unification"; nevertheless, you cannot just dismiss it. Because Allah knows what choices we will make even before we make them. So if we take that bus or go through that door Allah already knows.even if that bus or door changes our whole future. juba, Exactly! Allah SWT has given us these array of choices and He knows what we'll choose. Sue, If you re-read the material about the theory, you'll see that they talk about universes parallel to ours and our existence in it.

What is it that determines the courses our lives take? Are we bound to some physical laws that we know not about? Let’s say you are rushing to work and just as you are running towards the bus-stop, you miss a bus (or an underground train). If you had gotten moments earlier and made it to the bus or train, your life might (or would) have turned out completely different. There was a movie called Sliding Doors which was quite interesting for it raised questions in the mind of the viewer. The main character (Gwyneth Paltrow) rushes towards a train and catches it. In another trajectory, we are shown how her life would have turned out if she had missed the train. After she catches the train (in one trajectory), she gets home earlier only to find her boyfriend cheating on her. In the other trajectory (where she misses the train) she comes home and her boyfriend is home alone and the movie rolls on these two trajectories parallel... Now imagine if you caught the bus/train that you actually missed, you might have sat next to a nice person whom you after a short conversation maybe exchange digits with. This person could have turned out to be your “soul-mate†or at least a spouse that you end up tying the knot with. But since you missed the bus/train, you are left with an array of possibilities (other than the one you missed) that could determine the outcome of your life. If you caught the bus/train, you might have ended up in a brawl which led to you being stabbed or shot and your life might have concluded that morning. That is one outcome of the myriad available if you caught the bus/train. Physicists today offer a similar view of the world through the String Theory (someone who’s familiar with this field can do a much better job explaining the theory, I'll give it a go nevertheless). The theory stipulates (in a much simplified manner) that everything in the universe consists of tiny strings that vibrate, so tiny that it’s average length is 10 to the power of -33 centimeters (or about a millionth of a billionth of a billionth of a billionth of a centimeter). These strings vibrate in nine, ten or even twenty-six dimensions (several dimensions beyond the four, three spatial and time). These vibrating strings are bound by physical laws that are mathematically precise! After making a decision (or taken a certain course) one often wonders, “WHAT IF I had done this or maybe that, WHAT WOULD HAVE HAPENNED?†Just as you missed the bus/train, there are various probabilities of your life (in a parallel) world of how your life would have turned out (or maybe has) in the other dimensions parallel to ours. Am I losing you? I often lose myself thinking of this. This theory was used in the movie Matrix (probably the third one) where the main character Neo is talking to The Architect and with every word he says, there are hundreds of other things he “could have said†shown on small screens behind him. If he had chosen to say those “other thingsâ€, then the outcome of the conversation could have been much different depending on how the possibilities available to the other person and how he would have reacted to it. Therefore, outcomes of any decisions or moves we make in our physical lives are determined by a myriad of possibilities. Each and every time we move or decide to do something, it affects the outcome. It might start off as a choice, “Shall I take this packed bus or shall I just wait for the next one turning around the corner?†But in reality, these “small†decisions we make consciously (or unconsciously) end up determining how our lives turn out. If you take the first bus, you might be pick-pocketed and you would probably have tried to get back home. Maybe the pick-pocket could have somehow found access to your bank account and robbed you off your life-savings, ruining the plans you had made for the near future. But if you take the second bus, you might get a seat and arrive to work without any major incidents, and that is just one of the possibilities. So the ground we walk on is literally shaking with the energy of the vibrating strings, until we can see these vibrations, they remain as possibilities. Options that MIGHT BE, but we don’t know whether they ARE. Our choices, both conscious and subconscious determine how we perceive reality; we are part of this reality and participate actively in the “making†of it through the choices we make. At the end of the day, the path we choose (among the myriad of options we have) becomes our reality. We sort of follow a set of mathematical rules that shape our destiny, a path we take consciously to which every (sane) individual will be held accountable to in the Day of Reckoning. Maybe a slight paradigm shift is required to get the ball rolling and open the mind to the possibiliets that lie at our disposal. Allah SWT knows best.

I'll do just football ... Best Games ENGLAND - FRANCE (1-2) - a vomiting Zidane scored to beat England. BARCELONA - REAL MADRID (3-0) Los Galacticos on the fall HOLLAND-CZECH (2-3) - Just as interesting as their Euro 2000 encounter, only this time the Czechs won. MILAN - BARCA (1-0) and BARCA-MILAN (2-1) - a stunning goal from Dinho gave barca the edge at Nou Camp. Worst Games ENGLAND - SPAIN (0-1) - England played worse than a Div II team while Spain's first half was their best in many years. Best Players Xavi - Dinho - Eto'o (Barca) Zlatan (Juve) Adriano (Inter) Worst Players Beckham (Real Madrid) Raul (Real Madrid) Most improved teams Espanyol (Spain) Everton (England) Sevilla (Spain) AZ Alkmaar (Holland) Chelsea (England) Most 'flopped' team DEPORTIVO LA CORUNA (Spain) - They had lost only 5 games at the Riazor the past three years but have been beaten regulalry this year, most notably 0-5 by Monaco and 1-5 by Valencia. Most entertaining team BARCELONA !! Best Goal! Zlatan (Ajax) - He scored an amazing goal just before he joined Juve this summer. He dribbled past 6 or 7 players and then lured the goalie. Adriano (Inter) - two crackers against Udinese Zlatan (Sweden) - He scored an amazing equalizer against Italy in the Euro 2004.

First, Michael A. Malik doesn't state which countries (and what urban/rural centers) he has visited; for that reason there's not much to rebut. “Brother, let me tell you the most important thing in Islamâ€, said the stranger who had cornered me in a Lahore coffee bar. Haddad, He mentionned Lahore, it's in Pakistan. This is not a scientific paper which you can rebuke/rebut his words. The man is simply speaking his mind and sharing his experiences, telling us that we have lost the essence. If he is wrong, then we wouldn't be in the mess we are in today. I agree with with J11 in saying that he's "true to the point" in all he said.