Originally posted by ofleh: quote:you have questionned the existence of Allah SWT encouraged consumption of alcohol and also encouraged homosexual relationships. Sounds like the resume of the devil. Tell me how you really feel. Repulsed that your agenda has not been sniffed up yet. Originally posted by ofleh: quote: So speak the truth please, do you admire her political achievements ONLY or the fact that she is doing something you approve of (undermining Islam on a public sphere). I do admire Fatuma Nur whom I did a little research on. Although there's not much information on here as there is on Hirsi Ali. It is not lost on me that western media salivates over anyone who speaks ill of Islam. That agenda is not hidden nor is it subtle. However, the achievements of Hirsi Ali are not to be taken lightely only because western media has it in for Islam.So, is it her achievements as a politicians you admire (like everyone else) or is it her anti-Islam propaganda?

Originally posted by ofleh: I think she's admirable because she has accomplished much in the face of much adversity. Her opinions on Islam are not the whole sum of what she is. It is a part of her. Hate it or love it, it is there and it doesn't take away from her accomplishments. She's 35, an academic, a member of a political party that is part of the government. Not many women, let alone Somali refugees, can say they've made those strides by this age. I would be very proud of my daughter if she is that accomplished at that age. ofleh, What about Fatima Nur who is a politician in Sweden? Do you admire her too? Does she have to offend Islam in order to gain your admiration? She has done more for Somalis and other immigrants in general. You have repeatedly shown your stance on SOL; you have questionned the existence of Allah SWT, encouraged consumption of alcohol and also encouraged homosexual relationships. So speak the truth please, do you admire her political achievements ONLY or the fact that she is doing something you approve of (undermining Islam on a public sphere). Fatima Nur

Nur, Do you think that the head scholar of Al-Azhar erred when a fatwa was announced in 1959 (which is unchanged till today) saying that it is allowed for a Muslim to be a follower of the Ja'fari madhab (Ithna Cashariyyah/Shi'a al-Cimaamiyah) ? Do you think that Sheikh Maxmud Shaltoot and all those who came after him are in the wrong?

Originally posted by ofleh: ...Find someone (gender irrelevant) who is all that and a big bag of chips . You will then be in your late thirties and concieving should start to become an issue. But with new technology, it can be taken care of. With your dual incomes and fat savings, you can easily afford a nanny, au pair or full time care giver for your child. You can then have your cake and eat it too. ofleh, First it was questionning God's existence, then telling people to drink alcohol and now promoting homosexuality? WooooW :eek: You do it so subtly that the admin and mods don't even see the wickedness being promoted on a website run for and by Muslims.

Zeph, This meeting has been a failure, no matter how Geldof and Bono view it. Out of the $50 billion pledged, only about 15 Billion is new, the rest is money they had pledged earlier but not given out. The most important thing they could have done in this summit to help alleviate poverty is fair trade. The issue of subsidies on export products and tarrifs has not even been discussed. CAP et al are still in place which means that their surplus will continue to be dumped on the African market and more lives will be ruined. :mad:

Sad to hear about Diamante, hope she recovers fully soon. Cons, Thx for the ring!

Mutakalim, It was an interesting read. The language was quite academic but the essence was not lost in the bulk. Looking forward to read your response to bro Nur's questions. And if Ali was his Alal Beit, what makes his uncles who followed him not Alal beit, Nur, Aren't the Ahl bayt (only) the people that the Prophet SAWS covered with his cloak as described in some traditions? I think it was Sahih Muslim and/or Sunan Tirmidhi, but I'm not 100% sure.

Originally posted by ofleh: Sounds like countries with muslims, blacks or both. Being black sucked for a long time. Being muslim sucks nowadays. Being a black muslim is just begging for trouble. ofleh, Imagine what Bilaal ibn Rabaah RA, the Prophet SAWS and the first generation of Muslims went through...it was much worse that tightenned border control. Originally posted by ofleh: "Insanity in individuals is something rare - but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule." Nietzsche This sounds rather ironic coming from an insane individual

Originally posted by Mutakalim: Nur I have posted this message lest you think to yourself "fa buhita alladii kafar". Well that is not quite the case "Akhuuya".I am in the final stage of my research/compiliaton; inshallah, if there are no further time constraints on my part, I shall bring to a conclusion my "dialectic/explication", if you will, within a week. So far it is sixty pages in Word Document; hopefully, I can eliminate any extraneous information so as to keep it under fifty pages. What ever hapenned to Mutakalim's "sixty pages in Word Document?" :confused:

Sister, I couldn't agree with you more here, it was indeed a Dark Thursday , a concocted story created by the followers of a baby imaam who got lost falling in a ditch at age four, and for the next 65 years, three men were transmitting his teachings and revelations to the Shia faithful behind the Sirdaab, one of these stories being the Dark thursday which you believe in, I have never seen someone claiming to be Sunnah wal jamaaca believe in such a mockery of the faith. By adding a little of the Saxix Muslim with a bunch of fallacies from the Shia to create a case that teh Imaamah was stolen from Ali and ignoring the rich History of the companions and their legends is jumping the gun on the wrong target, The funny thing is that you even you believe that the Prophet asked for a pen and paper as if he has done it anytime in his lifetime! remember he was the illitrate prophet ? his miracle! when you belive in a lie, make sure it is consistent before you pose it to us, if you are a good researcher! Nur, The Tragedy of Thursday et al. are much talked about in Shi'a literature but it is a hadith that is recorded by both Bukhari and Muslim. Also, the Prophet SAWS asking for a pen doesn't men that he was literally going to write the words himself. Bro Nur, I don't know what to think; either you are wrong (you say that the story is concocted and claim that the Prophet SAWS would not ask for a pen for he was illiterate) or this particluar Hadith is authentic and it actually hapenned that Sahabah refused to do as the Prophet SAWS ordered them to. Which one is it? Sahih Bukhari - Volume 7, Book 70, Number 573: Narrated Ibn 'Abbas: When Allah's Apostle was on his death-bed and in the house there were some people among whom was 'Umar bin Al-Khattab, the Prophet said, "Come, let me write for you a statement after which you will not go astray." 'Umar said, "The Prophet is seriously ill and you have the Qur'an; so the Book of Allah is enough for us." The people present in the house differed and quarrelled. Some said "Go near so that the Prophet may write for you a statement after which you will not go astray," while the others said as Umar said. When they caused a hue and cry before the Prophet, Allah's Apostle said, "Go away!" Narrated 'Ubaidullah: Ibn 'Abbas used to say, "It was very unfortunate that Allah's Apostle was prevented from writing that statement for them because of their disagreement and noise." Source Sahih Muslim - Book 013, Number 4014: Sa'id b. Jubair reported that Ibn 'Abbas said: Thursday, (and then said): What is this Thursday? He then wept so much that his tears moistened the pebbles. I said: Ibn 'Abbas, what is (significant) about Thursday? He (Ibn 'Abbas) said: The illness of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) took a serious turn (on this day), and he said: Come to me, so that I should write for you a document that you may not go astray after me. They (the Companions around him) disputed, and it is not meet to dispute in the presence of the Apostle. They said: How is lie (Allah's Apostle)? Has he lost his consciousness? Try to learn from him (this point). He (the Holy Prophet) said: Leave me. I am better in the state (than the one in which you are engaged). I make a will about three things: Turn out the polytheists from the territory of Arabia; show hospitality to the (foreign) delegations as I used to show them hospitality. He (the narrator) said: He (Ibn Abbas) kept silent on the third point, or he (the narrator) said: But I forgot that. Source PS: Don't claim that I'm coming to "her rescue" because you and I have had this discussion before but it has probably slipped your mind. I also asked myself the same questions as Sakina years ago after reading certain books i.e. the famous/infamous book "Then I was Guided" by Tijani al-Samawi. I understand that this is an isssue that people don't feel comfortable talking about, but please bro, give her the benefit of the doubt because as a Muslim, you owe her that at least.

And why has "god", not Bono or Clinton or some big shot celebrity, not come to the aid of the most religious mofos on earth? Yeah I said it, goddammit! Africa has the most religious people (of any religion) anywhere. Is he enjoying this shit? Or just can't do shit about it? If he's really out there, he's got a lot of f%cking explaining to do! ofleh, The first pillar of Islam is the Shahada and you seem to be questionning it. Do you consider yourself a Muslim?

Originally posted by Nur: could you please be kind enough to show the hidden meanings for the statement to qualify for your description of being sly? Nur, you said..."who is not a Macsum (Infallible) like the Shia imams"...I found it to be a bit sly because you you don't actually beleive in the infallibility of the Imams of the Shi'a, but you didn't hesitate to throw it in the discussion. Originally posted by Nur: Brother, I hope that you have read her claim that she has researched the Sheikh history and principles on many occasions, isnt only fair to ask due diligence questions to qualify her claim, because we are thought consumers? As a Viking I thought you are for Ralph Nader and on the Consumers side ( thought consumers). Besides, if you have no problem with her questioning of the Sheikh, why would you have a problem of my questioning of her research background and doing research on her as she did a research on the Sheikh? like we say in Somali " Waryaadahee, Culumada kala qabta " I was very vocal when Salafi was here "eating the flesh" (as Sahal puts it) of the culamaa. You were not very vocal but I have seen you giving him advise in his thread about Mawdoodi. In his case, your involvement (as a seasonned Nomad who commands respect on these boards) could have settled the matter. I wish you did a similar thing to bro Salafi (initiate a thread where you discuss the issue of slandering Sheikhs) and I don't think this thread would even be necessary. mizz lander (I think) also asked about Hamza Yusuf and the sheikh was hanged out to dry by some posters on these boards. Salafi posted a dodgy excuse to label him Sufi (=kufr according to some teachings). I was looking forward to your input on the issue as an esteemed, learned member who is also a moderator on these pages. That thread later degenerated because those accusing Hamza Yusuf of being a "heretic" use the teachings of ibn Taymiyya (and AbdulWahhab al-Najdi) as proof. This in turn spurned the usual cycle where those who don't completely agree with the views of the Salafi sheikhs stepped up and expressed their views. Sakina was taking part in those discussions and I believe that led to you openning this thread and inviting her to a dialogue. I left that discussion because it took a circular mode and almost nothing of benefit could be derived in it. It just went to show how views vary on these boards just as they do among Muslims. I did not support one view above another but only adressed Salafi on his baseless assumptions and also quoted Surah Ma'idah to unite my brethren under one banner, that of Islam... "This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you ISLAM as your religion."- Al Ma'idah 5:3 So bro, it is not as you make it that I "come to her rescue" and if you read my contributions on the Islam pages, you'll struggle quite a lot to find ONE post where I have offended or condoned the slander of any Sheikh. It is not about taking sides but not about not letting our differences divide us. Originally posted by Nur: I fail to have seen you anywhere of being this protective of someone who is capable of speaking for herself, why havent you come to my help before like her?, and Salafi brother for that matter, just to show that you are a impartial, balanced and just brother? You have accused me of being "protective" of people who are Shi'a and you let this assumption (that lacks basis) blur your judgement. As for you, I've been reading your posts for the past five years or so and I don't think anything I could say would rescue you from the "fangs" of another nomad. I have nothing but love and respect for you as a Muslim brother and admire the work you do for our Somali brethren. Maybe this is the reason I'm quick to point to the "mistakes" that you make; not because I have anything against you but it goes to shows that I am almost denying you the opportunity to make a blunder. I don't know whether I was articulate enough to get this important pointthrough to you bro. Originally posted by Nur: brother, I have not set a rule for this discussion, all i've asked the sister was to qualify her background, beliefs, knowledge of crucial tools and language that are needed to appraise her judgement of the Sheikh, because it was herself that claimed to have conducted a research, all I am doing is to make sure that her research was reliable by well known research standards, and further that she had valid arguments based on solid knowledge of supporting disciplines that are co-requisiste for the issue at hand ( TAWHEED ) I've had the pleasure of reading many of your posts since your days of Somalinet. During this time, I've seen how you take your time to explain matters of faith to your fellow Muslims' But I just suggested another way of going about the way you invite someone to a discussion because making a list (by yourself) of what topics that are going to be covered during the discussion might be a "put off" for your opponent. You did this to me when we were discussing the Shi'a-Sunni divide and you listed about 25 books (Nahj and Bidaya wa Nihaya among others) that were were going to discuss. I had obviously not read all the books on your list and I didn't hesitate to tell you that that particular discussion was "above my league". You did almost the same thing with Warsameh, where you went out and set the rules for the discussion and the topics that were going to be discussed by the two of you. This is not a criticism but just a way of showing you that you can handle it differently in order to facilitate for a healthier discussion. In this particular case, you almost asked for a CV from Sakina so that she could prove her credentials for being able to undertake such a task (as discussing a Sheikh). Originally posted by Nur: Again, rest assured that my intentions are always good, I want all of us to make to Jannah, it doesnt matter who wins an argument, what matters is that we win the mercy of Allah SWT. I have no doubt in my mind that your intentions are noble, but the way someone goes about may sometimes taint the mission. May Allah SWT guide us all.

Sharapova played well but Venus was having her best game ever! Man, I can still hear their screams a day after the game! It was really awkward. rokko, Hewitt was outclassed just as everyone (besides Oz's) thought he would. Fed went up a gear whenever he felt like it and Hewitt was left reeling! I was enjoying the Johansson-Roddick game but then came...Ladies nad gentlemen...the thing people dread the most at Wibledon. It doesn't matte who joins Fed in the finals, they are bound to be threashed in 3 str8 sets! BOB, This is the only time I saw the four attacking Brazilians play well together. Brazil did what Argentian did to them in Buenos Aires, they closed them down very quickly and launched a lightning attack. PS: Is Adriano an alien? Damn, the power in that left leg dwarfs Roberto Carlos'.

have read many a time that you have researched for years about this man and his principles, which will can earn you from readers enough credibility to challenge the Scholar, who is not a Macsum ( Infallible) like the Shia imams. Bro Nur, That comment was a rather sly coming from someone with good intentions! I personally find the questions you asked rather personal and intimidating (for an openning) but perhaps Sakina will not see it in the same light (I read it as you asking - what are your credentials - which is unusual on these boards). I'm looking forward to read and (hopefully) learn from what the two of you have to say; but please bro, don't set up the rules for the discussion (like you often do) without asking for her consent. You at times set up the mode which seems to be a prelude for a massive dicussion which seldom is. This is my opinion (you might not agree with it) but I aired with hope that this discussion doesn't die before it takes off. Peace.

In a world whose motto has become ‘You mustn’t blame yourself’, sin has been replaced by sickness. Once upon a time there were seven deadly sins. They were called deadly because they led to spiritual death and therefore to damnation. The seven sins were (and are): lust, gluttony, avarice, sloth, anger, envy and pride. Now all of them, with the exception of pride, have become medical conditions. Pride has become a virtue. A secular society always feels uncomfortable with the moral imagination associated with the seven deadly sins. The Enlightenment replaced the idea of sin, which is deemed to be an offence against God, with the idea of crime, which is an offence against other people. But the rationalists still shared with religion the belief that individuals are responsible for their wrongdoing. However, these days we do not simply feel estranged from a religious universe; we also find it difficult to attribute the act of sinning to human behaviour. Today, the notion of personal guilt, which underpins the concept of the seven deadly sins, exists only in caricature. That is why Western culture can only make sense of the act of sinning as a symptom of a regrettable psychological disease. Actions that were once denounced as a sin are no longer interpreted through the vocabulary of morality but are diagnosed through the language of therapy. The deadly sins have become behavioural problems that require treatment rather than punishment. There are no longer sinners, only addictive personalities. Take lust. Those who would have previously been called lustful are now described as ‘addicted’ to sex and in need of therapy. The American Association on Sexual Problems has estimated that between 10 and 15 per cent of all Americans — some 25 million people — are addicted to sex. Through the confessions of a number of high-profile sex addicts (.....) what used to be called promiscuity has acquired a medical label. Friends and former lovers (of an ex-President of America) have also jumped on the bandwagon, and assert that he, too, is the victim of this addiction. Organisations such as Sex Addicts Anonymous insist that this condition is very difficult to cure. This was affirmed in a report written by an American doctor, Martha Turner, who claimed that sex addiction is the hardest psychological illness to treat, with high relapse rates and low levels of recovery. So what can you do? ‘Your sexual behaviour is out of control and you want to get help’, is the advice of Spirit of Recovery, an online organisation offering therapeutic advice. Gluttony has also been transformed into an addiction. Gluttons no longer gorge themselves; they are simply suffering from one of a variety of eating disorders. Sections of the addiction industry even insist that compulsive eating is a psychological disease with a biological cause. One food-addiction expert contends, ‘It is a physical disease characterised by obsession with food, obsession with weight and loss of control over the amount eaten.’ These compulsions are represented as the outcome of a physiological or biochemical condition of the body, which creates ‘cravings for complex carbohydrates’. Some go a step further, and argue that obesity is not really a problem since it is biologically based, and therefore natural. Charlotte Cooper, the author of Fat And Proud, believes that people are fat because ‘genetic heritage determines our metabolic rate’, and the problem is that society forces people to diet. ‘I question our ability to choose our body shapes,’ writes Cooper. So you might as well reconcile yourself to your genetic heritage. Anger is deemed by some to be the most powerful emotional addiction. ‘Have you ever been so angry that you felt like you could breathe fire?’ asks Spirit of Recovery. If you have, ‘you are truly addicted to this state of being, this emotional chemical trap that now determines your every action and feeling’. Conditions such as ‘road rage’, ‘computer rage’, ‘trolley rage’, ‘golf rage’ or ‘air rage’ suggest that this disease can afflict the individual in diverse settings. The therapeutic lobby claims that the solution to this emotional addiction is the application of stress- or anger-management techniques. Major public and private institutions invest in anger-management therapy, and sometimes insist that employees go on courses that allow them to come to terms with their emotions. So-called addictions to emotions such as anger often receive the medical label of an ‘impulse-control disorder’.Avarice and envy have been recast as the inevitable consequence of modern consumer society, and are also sometimes diagnosed as an impulse-control disorder. It is claimed that ours is an addictive society that compels individuals to be envious of one another. Spending addiction, ‘shopaholism’ and compulsive gambling are represented as diseases that are comparable to alcoholism and drug addiction. Spending addiction, sometimes called the ‘plastic disease’, gets you intoxicated so that you simply cannot help what you are doing. Sloth has become medicalised. Conditions such as chronic fatigue continually invite people to make sense of their lassitude through a medical label. Attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder provides an all-purpose explanation for individuals who are reluctant to focus or concentrate. But sloth need not be a wholly negative condition. Some forms of sloth are upheld as an antidote to stress-related illnesses. Hard work is often castigated as a risky enterprise. There is a great risk of contracting workaholism if you take your job too seriously. The positive virtue associated with work has given way to the conviction that work makes you ill. And finally we come to what the Church considered to be the most deadly of the seven sins: pride. Of all the seven deadly sins, pride is the only one that has been completely rehabilitated. That is why pride is never diagnosed as a disease. The American sociologist Joel Best has observed that it is the absence of pride that constitutes a serious psychological problem. These days virtually every social and psychological problem is blamed on low self-esteem. The solution to poor educational performance, teenage pregnancy, anorexia, crime or homelessness is to raise the self-esteem of the victim. In our self-oriented world, society continually incites people to take themselves far too seriously. That is why pride has become one of the prime virtues of our time. It should be noted that the therapeutic imperative alters the concept not only of sin but also of virtue. In the Middle Ages, practicing the seven contrary virtues — humility, kindness, abstinence, chastity, patience, liberality, diligence — was believed to protect one against temptation towards the seven deadly sins. Today, people who practice some of these virtues are just as liable to be offered counseling as those who are tempted by sin. Kindness? Too much kindness may lead to compassion-fatigue. Diligence is sometimes dismissed as the act of someone suffering from a ‘perfectionist complex’. Humble people lack self-esteem, and chastity is just another sexual dysfunction. Virtue is not so much its own reward as a condition requiring therapeutic intervention. A medical diagnosis is applied not just to the classic virtues but also to the religious faith that underpins them. If you have too much faith you may be suffering from religious addiction. Father (...) is. He is a spiritual adviser at a psychiatric centre in Canada. As well as being a recovering religious addict, he is a recovering alcoholic. In his book When God Becomes a Drug he writes, ‘In essence we have become addicted to the certainty, sureness or sense of security that our faith provides.’ If any readers of this magazine are worried about their faith, they can help themselves by dipping into Toxic Faith: Understanding and Overcoming Religious Addiction by Stephen Arterburn and Jack Felton. Therapeutic definitions of addiction elevate the sense of human powerlessness to a level unimaginable in mediaeval times. From the standpoint of our therapeutic culture, powerlessness becomes not merely an episode in one’s biography but its defining condition. From this fatalistic perspective, treatment acquires a passive, even fatalistic, character. Addicts are told that they will never be completely cured. We have recovering sex addicts, recovering religious addicts and recovering alcoholics. No one ever really changes. The Truth of the matter is that as humans we have shortcomings and are bound to make mistakes. But given the choice of being powerless in the face of God or an impotent client of a therapist, we choose the side of God. Because, after all is said and done - it is the 'Face of God' that we have to face. That’s why I say bring back the idea of transcendence. Sin is a process of learning and that's where free will lies. Until we make the right choice, our shortcomings will present themselves at every turn. We may give it whatever name we like, but the truth in the 21st Century post modern age is that we have come to the end of our rope. If we do not take stock of ourselves, all of the sacrifices of humanity from the beginning of time will be totally lost. Because we have deliberately cut ourselves off from the true traditions that can bring us back and make us become real Human Beings. A Real Human Being is one who thinks, and what he thinks he says, what he says, he does, and what he does brings harmony, peace and benefit to all of creation. We are situated in the end of the cycle, and perhaps the die has been cast. It is the duty and the responsibility before God of any decent human being that he should make an effort to salvage and save this sinking ship of ours that we call earth for we all are on the same boat. We supplicate for the help of the Merciful, and Loving Creator and His last Emissary, the Chosen One. We believe that if He has chosen one, He has chosen all. Source.

The Germany-Brazil game was quite entertaining, but it withered away towards the end. Brazil's team has too much flair, a few changes would make them very lethal. I would remove Kaka/Robinho (or both) so that Ronaldinho can get some space. These three seem to be running in the same zones, always in each others way. I would bring in Edu or Gilberto Silva to help Emerson in the midfield, that way they get more strength and would do a better job that Kaka and Robinho because too many cooks spoil the broth. The player who has impressed me the most in the Brazil squad is Cicinho, I hope the big teams are watching because this dude is better than any right-back I've seen this year (incl Il-Pendelino himself). And what the heck is Roque-Junior doing in the squad? He wasn't good enough for AC Milan or Leeds and now plays in Germany, why is he getting a place in the best team in the world? :confused: Germany looked good today, but they should definately get rid of Huth if they want some stability in the defence. I hope Argentina go through, there's more rivalry between them and Brazil. Plus Brazil feel they need to revenge the 3-1 thrashing in Buenos Aires a few weeks ago and this is a great opportunity. What a final it would be! BOB, I can't stand cricket because the scores confuse me. You need a guide-book to undrestand who won and who did what There are also very few countries that play the sport (or that are good at it) which makes it less exciting. Imagine a sport where West Indies and Pakistan are big names, this sport must be loathed around the world. Why not watch some tennis? I'm enjoying Wimbledon a lot! Federer to beat Roddick in the final, again (he's just too good). Serena to revenge last years loss in the final and beat Sharapova.

The Ghanaians think they invented politics. No Ghanaian worth his salt will conclude a conversation without mentioning the famous Kwame Nkrumah or quoting a phrase from one of his speeches. Even when bargaining at the Bazaar, a 'Kwame' phrase has a magical effect. LOOOOOL @ Kwame, typical Ghanaians! I read this some time back, it's hilarious.

Originally posted by Psycho_Sue: Someone once told me that men and women are in capable of having friendships without an ulterior motive…that’s a load of $%#@. The only men who are incapable of having platonic relationships are Somali men! Sue, That sounds like something I would say, but I don't think you heard it from me Why would a man have a female "friend" or vice-versa and what would this friendship mean? Is it going to movies (one on one), go to a bistro for coffee and chat for hours, taking a walk down the sea-shore or having dinners and lunches whenever possible? This kind of relationship could only be 'sustained' if one person has an interest in the other; there is no other way they could be friends and just hang about! It is not only Somalis that have a problem with this type of relationship but ALL Muslims because the Prophet SAWS said that... "Whenever a man is alone with a woman the Devil makes a third." (Hadith Al-Tirmidhi 3118 Narrated Umar ibn al-Khattab) According to Islam, this kind of relationship is forbidden. But westerners usually have these type of relationships with the opposite sex and the unaware person sees Somalis as being "backward" or "uncivilised" because they shun it.

Cawralo, I'm not sure I understood the story well so please correct me if I'm wrong; the bride is Somali while the groom is a mulatto (a Muslim? If not, do you see any problem there?). I understood that you found the family of the bride to be quite asocial and didn't make use of their 'elbows' as you hoped they would. But weren't you disturbed with the more sinister things like the free intermingling of sexes, the dancing, consumption of alcohol etc., things that are forbidden in Islam?

Poor girl! She thinks that the "success" of western countries is down to their irreligious nature.

BOB, LOOL@ Channel O! Damn, you have the memory of an elephant! It reminds me of the American movies where the police say "Anything you say may be used against you as evidence..." akakakaka...Mbona una nitupisha mbao hivyo beste? Ati nafanyia mamanzi 50 push-ups ndio wani kubalie kuingia hiyo bash? Viking wa "kikweli" ange wa ambia hawo masupuu wako mlangoni...ISHIIIA!!! using the hand to further emphasize the word...halafu aende CarniVorous (au F2) kukatia masupuu walalo That is kama ningekuwa sina manzi already! Lakini hiyo risto yako noma!

BOB, I saw the Ivory Coast-Egypt game, they are a wicked side! I was most impressed by Dindane and their left back whom they call the "African Roberto Carlos". Drogba's 2nd goal was amazing, he is a different person when he plays for his national team, he beams with pride! I wouldn't say it's finished in that group though, Cameroon are good, whether home or away. If the Ivorians win that game then they are through, looking forward to their game in September.

We should find a way to get them to pay taxes, only then will they be counted as "employed". On a serious note, housewives are not seen as "productive" in the west because they don't "generate" money. But they are in reality safe-guarding the future of a nation so they should get proper monetary compensation. They are afterall bringing up future "tax-payers" who will run the nation and its economy. Since many western women opt for a "career" instead of building a family, countries like France have been forced to pay mothers a lot of money for every child they give birth to. Europeans have realised that although the economy impoves the more women join the work-force, the population has been dwindling. Countries that traditionally have strong family structures in the west (like Spain and Italy) have today the lowest birth-rates in the world. This means that they wouldn't be able to sustain the high standards of living in the future because there won't be enough people working because the birth-rates have been very low in the 80's, 90's and beyond. This is partly because the role of a housewife is frowned upon which is nothing other than ripples of "emancipation".

Originally posted by Psycho_Sue: I think I may have caused the Queen Mother's death. Seriously! the night before she died, I was watching the pope on the news and for no reason what so ever I said... "the Queen's mother should die, she's way older than the pope" And lo and behold the next morning it was all over the news. She was dead and there wasn't even any warning signs. LOL Sue, I think I killed the Pope after you killed the Queen mother. One evening I was about to watch the news and after I turned on the TV, a voice said "If you just turned on the TV, the Pope is DEAD!"

ofleh, Fyling start eh? You managed to advertise atheism, condone adultery and the use of alcohol in a couple of days on a site run by and for Muslims Or maybe it's just your humour!