ONLY IN AMERICA Belly-button piercing anyone?

Awguuryo Generale! Wish you all the best!

Originally posted by Xoogsade: Out of curiousity, When do you consider someone to be an Old man or woman? At what age do you say this/that person is an old person. MAN: I think the Deen says a man becomes "complete" at 40 (this is when the Prophethood of Muhammad SAWS started). Amongst Somalis, some are considered "old" from this age but those who take good care of themselves have another decade or so before they can be referred to as "old". WOMAN: 1. When you need to do a bone density scan. 2. When you get prescription drugs for athritis. 3. When you have no need to do the monthly shopping for Always.

Originally posted by Fidel: I'm having a retro kinda year. The Commodores, Atlantic Starr, Lionel Ritchie and Johnny Kemp. Beautiful music. Driving in a beat up Mazda 626 in Xamar. Cheap speakers pumping nothing but treble. Wind blowing in my hair. Waving at award-winning budonkadonks and eating xalwo straight out the plastic bag. Now those were the days. wipes the tears off his eyes and reaches for the nuts LOL@treble! Well, for me and many from my turf, those tracks usually came blasting from a 500+ watts, four channel Blaupunkt amplifier with four channels and massive speakers put under the seats of a matatu.

Jacaylbaro, Limewire is the best.

Originally posted by Fidel: quote: smack it up, flip it, rub it down, oh no! To remember or recognize the lyric above, you must have been granted asylum by 1989. Nasty BBD! Enjoying the tracks you downloaded eh?

Originally posted by NGONGE: There, I’ve indulged you and, apart from the tiny bits where I could not resist the temptation to be naughty, I believe most of my replies would agree with your preset agenda. You do of course realise that your questions reek of a desperate attempt of trying to defend decadent moral positions by appealing to the emotions and implying that the feelings of oppression validate all wrongdoings! This brings us sliding back to square one again. You are one paranoid son of a man! There are no "preset agendas"; I just wanted to know where you stood on certain issues. The questions I asked do NOT defend any "decadent moral positions" at all so stop your paranoia. Shall we play the game of words again and try to separate acts of violence (terror) and those of resistance? I don’t think resistance will or should stop. The two go hand in hand...resistance usually involves acts of violence, unless you are a naive Jainist which I don't think you are. The Israelis call the Palestinains' resistance terrorism, so do the Russians regarding Chechens. By doing this, they undermine the legitimacy of the resistance and degrade the freedom fighters to mere criminals. The Mau Mau are a well known and highly respected freedom fighters, but if they were fighting the British in this day and age, they too would be branded "violent terrorists".

Anyone who's been watching football the last decade would without a doubt say Zinedine Zidane! In that period (1994-2004) he won the... - World Cup (1998) - European Cup (2000) - Italian League (1997, 1998) - Champions League (2001) - Spanish League (2002) - World Player of the Year (1998, 2000 & 2003) ...all in style!

NGONGE, A few questions I hope you can answer... 1) What do you think of the regimes in Muslim countries? 2) Is there currently any single Muslim country you can point at as an example for others to follow? 3) What kind of government do you support, a theocratic govt or a secular govt like i.e. Tunisia? 4) Do you think violence perpetuated by Muslims can come to an end while their lands are still occupied by foreign forces? Do you think the violence can be stopped while the people are being oppressed by despotic leaders who get support from other nations?

"While unofficial terrorism – as opposed to official, state-sponsored terror – can inflict untold hurt, it is often a frantic retort to political, cultural, religious, ideological and even physical oppression and violence." xiinfaniin, This is what it's all about...states want to have monopoly on violence. They refuse to acknowledge their role in all that is going on.

Sue, That was probably meant for rednecks. Qur'an 9:11 Yusuf Ali : But (even so), if they repent, establish regular prayers, and practise regular charity,- they are your brethren in Faith: (thus) do We explain the Signs in detail, for those who understand. PICKTHAL: But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then are they your brethren in religion. We detail Our revelations for a people who have knowledge. SHAKIR: But if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, they are your brethren in faith; and We make the communications clear for a people who know.

Originally posted by ORGILAQE: I remember the Swahili in Mombasa on Wedding days used to sing "kila siku kichochoroni,leo kitandaani" HAHAHAHAHA

bint, Their beliefs generally do vary from the Sunni traditions that most of us were brought up with but I don't think I'm knowledgable enough to have a clear opinion on it or say they are deviants etc. One has to understand something properly before passing judgement.

Well that is your opinion sir. What simplified example didn't I comment on?

Loool JB, Han har inte riktigt kallat mig för CP men han tycker att jag har väldigt svårt att begripa enkla ting han förklarar (som i verklighet är förvrängt som sjutton). Han anvander förolämpande ord mot mig men jag tar det med en nypa salt; jag var besviken men inte irriterat. I livet stöter man på alla sorters människor och man måste hålla huvudet kallt.

Originally posted by Shams-ud-Din: Now we are getting somewhere! Well, the issue at hand here is as follows: Shams-ud-din, I didn't realise that the issues to be discussed turned into hypothetic analogies, I'm not very bright you see. Thanks for your advice bro.

Originally posted by Salafi da'wa: I maintain a distinct CREED that is inline with the quran and sunnah upon understanding of the salaf us salah; who are the saved sect(alfirqa an-najiyah). - The saved sect that made growing a beard and congregation prayers obligatory? - The saved sect that is the protector of a monarchy and defends despotic leaders as long as they pray? - The sect that has undone most of the work done by the Prophet SAWS in the views of women. (saying that their voice is cawra, they should wear ninqab, the yshouldn't work etc.) - The sect that calls anyone who disagrees with them heretics. This has led to great rifts within Islam in the guise of "following the Qur'an and the Sunnah". I'm gald I'm not in your "saved" sect because even the Khawarij had similar views and everyone knows how wrong they were. Originally posted by Salafi da'wa: You know as well as anyone, Islam dismembered into numerous sects whom one is saved. How naive are you? Did you know that EVERY sect claims to be right? Why else would they believe what they do? I will never follow a sect that protects despotic regimes - the symptom of your sect is the state of Saudi Arabia. The monarchies are in Europe binge drinking, chasing around white women while you call them "the Guardian of the two shrines". In reality, they are the lovers of the three "B's" (Blondes, Booze and Baccarat). But as it said on your creed's list, they should be left to rule as long as they pray! As a Muslim what would your position be here; 1. The Whereabouts of Allah(where is Allah) Allah SWT is on the Carsh, but only a literalist would think that it is a physical place. 2. Does Allah posses literal hands, Eyes..ect Literalists (like those belonging to your sect) claim that Allah SWT actually has physical limbs. Allah SWT attributes to Himself two types of qualities... a) Qualities that are easy for us to understand i.e. Power, Speech, Knowledge, Justice etc. b) The second group of qualities are the Sifaat-Mutashabihat; they are allegorical and NOT literal. Attributes like face, soul, hands, throne etc fall into this category. 3. If for example, I as a Muslim claimed to know the future, would you denounce me as a heretic? I would help you get in touch with a psychiatry department after I have evaluated your claims. 4. What does your islam say about calling upon the dead souls for assistance My islam says that you ask Allah SWT directly for anything, but that doesn't necessarily mean that people can not ask on your behalf. I'm of course referring to people who are alive. Originally posted by Salafi da'wa: NUR and I share the same CREEDO. We may not see eye to eye on certain issues, atleast they are open to disagreements. On the concept of tawheed and aqeeda we differ NOT. I have read bro Nur's posts for almost four years and I haven't seen him cursing a group Sunni scholars or calling them heretics. As long as I can remember, I have NEVER seen him claiming to belong to a saved sect called Salafi. Ask him if you doubt my words. Originally posted by Salafi da'wa: Do u not deny the killing of an apostate? While I disgree with Nur, at times on trivial issues, you disagree with him on the mere concept of Tawheed(the essence of islam). I have never denied but I have questionned it because it has NOT been done during the time of the Prophet SAWS. At that time, Jews and others were pretending to convert to Islam in order to infiltrate them and cause havoc only to return to their beliefs later on. These are the ones that were put to death because they are committing high treason. I brought up the question and still waiting for bro Nur's response which he has been preparing. Originally posted by Salafi da'wa: As for the Title Salafi and his preference of Ahlul Sunnah wa jama’ca, akin to the northerners saying, “Laxoox†and the southern’s â€Canjayloâ€. We still hold the same torch. Yeah right! Why pretend and make it a tomato-tomatoe issue? The term Ahlul-Sunna wal-Jamaaca was too broad for the Salafi so they coined a term that distinguished them from the mainstream Muslims whom they thought were moslty heretical. Salafi/Wahabi are those who follow the interpretations of ibn Taymiya and later revived by AbdulWahhab al-Najdi. Maybe we should get your mate Sahal so that you can discuss this issue with him, he is the expert on the subject! Originally posted by Salafi da'wa: Explain to me why Irshad earns your wrath and these other individuals who oppose MY understanding of islam are sheltered from my critique? Isnt this hypocritical? Isn’t Halal to speak ill of those who propagate innovations? Have you made it Haram? Tell us what Allah and His messenger say about backbiting the innovators? Irshad Manji is a self-professed homosexual who questions the morality of the Prophet SAWS and denies the authenticity of the Qur'an. Which Islamic sect does this?? I have not made anything haraam or halaal, your ilk are known (just like the Khawariij) to call everyone who doesn't agree with them heretics. And that is what I dislike. If you want to know what Allah SWT says about those who 'backbite' then you should refer to Surah Al-Humazah.

Johnny B, Seeing that you are from Sweden I'll say it - på Svenska - Jag har sagt allt jag ville säga och både han och jag vet var vi har varandra. Han tycker jag är CP och det hjalper inte att argumentera med någon som har bestämt sig och tycker att alla som inte håller med är dumma hyclare. Men sånt är vissa och jag har inget mer att säga!

Salafi-dawa, It is impressive to see how your grammar has improved the last year or so, so has your understanding of the Deen. But unfortunately, you use these tools for three things only... 1. To praise certain Ulama and elevate their status. 2. To criticize other Ulamas that are not liked by the ones you praise. 3. To slander anyone who doesn't share your narrow views. YOu refuse to distinguish your aqeeda and manhaj, you hide under a Banner that the Munafiq,liberist,the lesbians,secularist find refuge in. Ina Lilahi wa ina Ileyhi Rajicun. I have said time and again on these boards, I'm not a Salafi like you, neither am I a Shi'a like OG Girl and Mutakalim. I'm simply a Muslim as Allah SWT has referred to is in Suratul Ma'idah. Do you have a problem with that? Isn't it enough to be a Muslim nowadays or must I have to have some secterian affiliations? however when brother NUR or myself post a subject you challenge them; unleashing hardline questions and commons. Stop hiding behind Nur because he has disagreed with you on many occasions when you have slandered other scholars and he also disagreed with you about referring yourself as a Salafi. I have much respect for bro Nur and although we disagree on certain occasions, no love is lost between us. at the same rate yOu swifly come to the rescue of anyone who we deem deviant, I did jump on your throat a couple of times when you were "eating the flesh" of certain Ulama. That is a very deviant act! I also confronted NGONGE when he posted an article of a homosexual who insults the Prophet SAWS and denies the Qur'ans authenticity. "You pertetually post articles that are founded upon falshood, which u take littel pride in refuting or warning the audience." Please go to the specific post you are referring to and tackle the issues there.

Originally posted by NGONGE: You are not in any way; shape or form trying to “understand†the causes as you put it. Stop this cringe worthy evasiveness and have the courage to stand by your beliefs. One that tries to understand does not spend three weeks trying to 'understand'. You clearly clearly said that "Your arguments for linking the Iraq war to terrorism are nothing but left-wing rhetoric." Every tom, *** and xaar knows that terrorism (perpetrated by Muslims) however despicable is linked to the foreign policies of western nations. You've criticized every Muslim who stated this obvious statement and called the hypocrites. Originally posted by NGONGE: Was not the author trying to preach to this occidental and show him how great Omar (RA) was? Oops, I forgot, you can’t read. I had a feeling that you didn't share that view (with the author), you guised it well for some time though. Originally posted by NGONGE: I stand by every name I called you in this discussion. This (un)fortunately says more about you than it does about me.

1) Viking is not naïve, in fact he is wise enough to recognise the truth from falsehood (assumption; he belongs to ahlus-sunnah wal-jamaacah). I'm simply a Muslim (even the Shi'a claim to be the REAL Ahlu Sunnah wal Jamaacah). I do not consider myself as being "wise" but I'm NOT misguided as you erroneously concluded. 2) I on the other hand, am too ignorant and naïve to be able to distinguish truth from falsehood. If you say so. But I think you are being too harsh on yourself. 3) Viking posts a link containing contaminating (that is to my caqiidah) materials, he does not advice me or warn me about some of its disastrous contents (a neglect of duty towards your fellow Muslim brother). "Contaminating" is a rather strong word to use on Muslims who believe in Allah SWT and the Prophet SAWS. I understand that their views might not be in accordance to what you have been taught and might seem offensive. I should've said that it was a Shi'a site but (at the time) I didn't see a point to do so as the issue at hand was commentary of verses of the Qur'an (and not some indoctrinating material). I apologise to anyone who found the material (on the link) offensive and happy for those who found it enlightenning. 4) Viking is nice man and I trust his judgement, so I jump head first into that link and before I realise, I am too deep into the s.h.i.t. One man's meat is another man's poison! But keep in mind that my intentions were not to sinister for I was merely answering WoL who asked for the source. Therefore, the issue at hand here is not about me or you, but some other nothing suspecting fellow Muslim brothers and sister, who enjoy a duty upon us, as we to them, to advice the good by showing the truth and warn them about the evils of falsehood. If you put aside my approach for once, I think you'll recognise that issue too! You do learn a lot of things from reading what others write, even if you don't agree with everything they write. My intentions were to help ENLIGHTEN and NOT to decieve unsuspecting readers. As for a good commentary on the Qur'aan, I would advice you to purchase Ibn Katheer. I know the volumes are too numerous and also quite expensive, but trust me when I say to you; they are worth every penny. Tafsir ibn Kathir is one of the most popular commentaries. I do intend to buy all the volumes available of the better commentaries inshaAllah. But that was not what I asked you bro...I was asking for an online version (for the moment), if you know of any that is.

Haddad, Trying to explain anything to this dude is like what you say in Swahili Kupigia mbuzi guitar (playing a guitar to a goat)! NGONGE, Your stance is the evidently the same... 1. Muslims can criticize the terrorist attacks but are being duplicitous if they try to understand the underlying causes. 2. It is ok to post an article written by a secular homo but hypocritical to post one that explains how terrorism is to be dealt with according to Islam. Especially if the name of some occidentals happen to be used as an example. You've called me obtuse, hypocritical, unable to comprehend simple semantics, duplicitous, pedantic etc. All this by a knuckle-head who can't see beyond the tip of his nose. Listen sxb, you are better off working on some more material for your autobiographical BOREDOM thread, all these discussions have only been a distraction from what you do best. The dead horse has been flogged beyond recognition, have a nice one!

Shams-ud-din, The reason we are having such difficulties in our communication I think, is mainly due to your "cocktail" approach to the discussion. You are failing to distinguish the source and the topic, the issue and the subject, and on top of that, you are mixing your private feelings in what is a serious matter! Akhi, the link is a Shi'a and I found the commentary pages to be useful. What do you mean I am failing to distinguish between the issue and the subject? The subject was Surah Adiyat and the commentary, that is until you came in the picture. My private feelings were a result of your approach, you were hostile and called me names. All this would have been avoided if you acted in a civil manner to begin with. The dialogue would be something like this... Shams-ud-din: Hello bro, are you Shi'a? Viking: No sxb. Shams-ud-din: Then why are you reading their materials? Viking: I read materials from all Muslims. Plus, I was looking for a good Qur'an commentary and this was the best (and only one) I found that explained verses of the Qur'an in depth. Shams-ud-din: It is dangerous to read their work because there are some "dangerous" ideology that contains falsehoods. Viking: I understand your concerns bro but I'm not naive and know what I'm doing. There are many divisions among Muslims and there is a lot of criticism of each others intepretations. Don't worry about me. Do me a favour sxb, please keep your suspicions about me to yourself...the moment you see me saying anything that contradicts the Qur'an of the Sunnah, be a good Muslims and point it out in the right manner. LOOOL @ make it your signature, that's a good one. What IS the issue at hand here? Please please let us discuss these "issues". PS: Do you have a link where I can find good Qur'an commentary?

NGONGE, I mentionned Irashad Manji not because I think you are promoting homosexuality on these pages but because of your initial comments... I read that article three times and still don’t know who the author is preaching to!Not surprised that it met with your approval, Viking. One foot in each side, eh? So far you are the only one who sees contradiction in this article while you fail to see the contradiction (duplicity) in Irshad Manji's arguments which had your approval- she is a secular homosexual who calls herself a Muslim but does not believe in the authenticity of the Qur'an. Can it get more duplicitous/hypocritical than that? But I think you are too submerged in occidental ideology to even acknowledge this simple fact. As for my comprehension skills, I don't think they are as lousy as you would like to potray them. Do your megalomaniac self a favour and visit that post to see how many people actually agreed with your views on the issue of Irshad Manji and terrorism. You have still failed to show why you thought I was being left-wing (which you claim contradicts Islam). Just in case you've been living in a cocoon the last few weeks, there have been many sources that claim the terrorist attacks are linked to do to British foreign policies. Even a highly respected think-tank in the UK linked the war in Iraq with terrorism, does that make them duplicitous and hypocritical too? Read the links below in case you missed it... Link Link I'm not at all worried about your insults mate, you have failed horribly in showing the "duplicity" in my arguments and also showed hollowness in defending your reasons to call me a "left-winger" who's on the risk of leaving the fold of Islam. Adiga leh kuu taala waxaas sxb.

NGONGE, You are one weird character! You were recently defending vehemently an article written by a secular homosexual who denies the authenticity of the Qur'an and questions the morality of our Noble Prophet SAWS. Yet you question why I posted this article which explains in simpleton how terrorism is best fought according to Islam. Did Caliph Umar (RA) rule according to the Shari'a? Was he just? Did he epitomise the teachings of Islam? If you answer YES to these questions then you will not have a problem with the title. Lastly, let me return the brotherly advice and also inform you that your duplicitous position is not healthy and that applying left-wing views to an essentially Islamic problem will, in time, erode on your values and make you leave the fold of Islam. Is it at all possible that you’ll heed my words and rethink your position? You have abused the word duplicitous and used it on anyone who wasn't on your line of thought. Now I'd like you to be a fair chap and point out which points make my argument duplicitous in this post (plus any other post where you think I've used TWO opposing and contradictory ideologies to present my case). This is also the second time you have used the term left-wing in describing my views. What exactly (in my arguments)prompted you use the word left-wing to describe my views? I'm really keen in finding out about these left-wing tendencies that (as you put it) would "erode on your values and make you leave the fold of Islam". Taqwa, I'm glad you understood the article for what it was.