All this apparently hapenned in Kenyan courts, this version seems shorter than the ones I've seen before. Were you present when your picture was taken Only in Kenya!

I wonder whether Bashir Goth is equally concerned about the cultural erosion that is taking place among Somalis who live in the west. I'm talking about the 50-cent and Beyonce wannabes that have traded the macawiis, guntiino and garbasaar for jeans and t-shirts (the size is commonly XXXL for young boys and for the females, garments are preferred somewhat "shrunken" - tightfitting jeans and shirts that have shrunk enough to show the navel). Being the "traditionalist" he is, he must find this too to be a worrying trend.

Originally posted by Alpha-Geeljire: Correct if I'm worng, which I doubt, but doesn't our diin teach us to know were we came from and more specifically about knowing our qabil. Now how can you "denounce" your qabil, when you are born into that qabil and will be part of that qabil, unless your mother in unaware of who your father is. Alpha-Geeljire, You asked to be corrected if you were wrong so I will share with you my views on this issue bro. I assume you are referring to verse 13 of Surah Al-Hujurat where it says... O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and TRIBES, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise (each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things). (Qur'an 49:13) Now there is a problem here; the word used in the Qur'an is qaba'il which is translated into tribes by Yusuf Ali et al. Many Somalis mistakenly refer to clans as tribes; we (Somalis) all belong to ONE tribe which is the SO'MAAL. And this is what Allah SWT is referring to in the verse above, this (Soomaal) is what you are supposed to KNOW and not despise/discriminate on others (i.e. those who are not Somalis, on basis of qabiil). This is what the Diin teaches bro. About denouncing the qabiil (clan in this case), the Prophet SAWS said that when making a decision about something, we should put it on a scale and look into what good (advantages) that will come out of it or bad (disadvantages) that will come of it, we were to pursue it. Clanism has brought so much misery to Somalis and abandonning it would be praiseworthy merely based on the misery it has caused us the past decade and a half. So don't be afraid to leave all that is bad behind, because this would only benefit you and your people.

Originally posted by Legend of Zu: LOoooL Viking...You will be invited to the Exclusive Bariis brotha... Aaah about the Doctor Phil..sxb..this was waaay back...back in the days...where..ehm..ehm.. i hope u understood.. Cheers I do understand This bariis has been on the dhuxul for some time now, but I've still got my istakiin ready and sharpenned mate.

Even though they play on the same position, Makelele and Pirlo are very different. The former is a fifth defender and rarely leaves his half while the latter (is not as good in defending) but very influential in attack and acts almost as an extra playmaker. If I was to choose a holding midlfielder with defensive qualities (a fifth defender who protects the back four then I'd choose Makele over any other player in the world today). If I wanted a very creative holding midfielder who is a threat to the opponents then Pirlo is the man. It is unfair to compare the two because they play in two very different systems. Chelsea play 4-5-1 while Milan play 4-1-3-2. PS: This section has awfully been quiet after the demolition of L'pool this weekend. Soma-Inc must be still celebrating

Legend, If you look at the history of Iraq, you'd see that chaos helps the enemies of USA. If the fate of the Iraqis was entirely left for them to decide, they would split into three regions and the oil fileds would end up with the Kurds in the north and the Shi'a in the south. Saddam was used by the USA and GB to hold the different people who inhabit Iraq together (forcefully). He then grew a mini brain and became more of a megalomaniac than the Americans liked. There are several reasons why Iraq was invaded and the two major reasons are oil and Israel. There are three nations that somwhat make the Zionists uneasy; Iraq, Syria and Iran. Iraq has been invaded, the Syrians are being set against the Lebanese (the killing of a Rafik Hariri and all the bombings that the Syrians are accused of are actually the works of Mossad and their American counterparts). Since Iran is much more united than Iraq, the nuclear fuel plans they have are being used as an excuse to bring them to the Security Council so that they can be alienated, this might stir up internal problems they hope (this eases tensions in Israel as Iran is seen as a threat). Another reason for the invasion was to demonstrate to the world (esp. China) that USA is not a fading power (there wouldn't be the need for such a demonstration if their power wasn't fading). This invasion and the "War on terror" also work secondarily as a factor to unite the American people and strengthen their 'group feeling'. Oil is not the only factor, but the role of Halliburton, Bechtel et al. show that it was one of the major reasons for the invasion.

Xu, The author is using this argument only to further his own ideology (American hegemony). There is as much truth in the article as there was to Bush/Blair's tirades about Saddam having WMD's. We all knew that Saddam was a tyrann but the agenda to remove him had less to do with his horrendous human rights record and more to do with the high grade crude oil found in the world's second largest oil reserves.

Clans were/are political "alliance," whose destiny to survive was to form that alliance otherwise they would have been wiped from the face of competing "alliance" tribes, as it happened to some. MMA, Tribes have been essential in pre-Islamic Arabia in forming solidarity (asabiya) among the people. The group feeling that comes from belonging to a certain tribe has been the glue that has held together a people. This kind of group feeling/solidairty was abandonned in the advent of Islam and the Arabs united instead under the banner of Islam. The Prophet SAWS said; "Whoever fought for the sake of 'asabiya (partisanship) supporting one group or fighting another and died, he died the death of jahiliyah (days of Ignorance)." Tribalism and the asabiya that is derived from belonging to a tribe (clan in our case) is detestable and should be abandonned. We seem to have inherited the most rotten qualities of the pre-Islamic Arabs and you'll see many Somalis who take pride in these false groupings just because it gives them a sense of 'group feeling'. Viking. As usual you make some good points. Somalis hate to read the truth. Ska du vara i stockholm någon gång i slutet av detta år? I så fall tänker jag bjuda dig på min disputation. Forhoppningsvis sxb. MashaAllah, det glädjer mig när jag ser Somalier som siktar hogt. När ska det ske? Jag ska gora sa gott jag kan for att närvara men kan inte lova nagot ännu.

Introduced by Arab Sheikhs sometime around three hundred years after the birth of Islam in Arabia, groups of Somalis in a locality formed a confederacy to a particular sheikh who taught them Islam. They became his “Xer†commonly referred to as the “Xertii Sheekh Hebel†– The Religious Confederacy of Sheikh so and so. Given enough time, such confederacies developed into full blown tribes with their line of paternal ancestry adjusted to go back to the Sheikh himself and instead of “xerti Sheekh Hebel†it became “reer Hebelâ€. There is a simple prove for this: The average line of ancestry (abtiris) is 20 grandfathers to the Sheikh. The average life span in those days was not more than 60 years. Therefore, the ancestral lineage or tribe is only 1200 years old. But Somalis existed in the Horn of Africa for the last 5000 years evidenced by the recorded trade and interactions with the Phoenicians, Ancient Egyptians, the Chinese, and Indians etc. way before the Christian era. Without belittling the influence of Arabs and the relationship with Arabia, the fact that Somalis have a distinct language and an idiosyncratic physical feature that endured over the ions is a clear indication that Somalis are a race onto itself parallel to the Arab race. Caaqil, Although true, most Somalis will not accept this because it shakes the foundation they have formed within their own clans (and sub-clans) in the last few centuries. Detestable as it is, (and even somewhat ironical) Somalis don't have a common asabiya similar to that of the Arab tribes; the clan has taken the role of the tribe.

Paragon, Interesting post! I recall how as a kids we sprinkled salt on slugs to see them shed their outer layer. We had no idea that we were actually dehydrating the poor creatures and causing them to die when they become unable to dilute the salt sprinkled on their bodies. Just like the slugs, people have to be aware of what they are 'sloughing off' so as not to shed some of the things that nurture the soul. Elysian, Why not concretize your thoughts, be more specific, and relate your abstract thinking to something more tangible. Vannen, I initially thought that Paragon is flirting with gnosticism

Legend, I'm staring because I wasn't invited to eat some of the bariis. When did you become Dakhtar Phil?

Ralph Peters is the author of New Glory, Expanding America's Global Supremacy, and a member of USA TODAY's board of contributors. I guess he forgot to mention that his country destroyed a secular country with the highest literacy rates (for both genders) in the Middle East, destroyed their well advanced infrastructure and condemned them to life without peace and security, clean water, electricity and above all a functionning govt. Supporters of American hegemony apply various tactics, this is just one of their weaker arguments.

New Job A man in a taxi cab taps the driver on the shoulder to ask him a question. The driver screams bloody murder, loses control of the cab, and swerves onto the sidewalk before stopping just inches from a lamppost. After checking to make sure the passenger is OK, the driver says "I'm sorry, but you scared the daylights out of me!" "Sorry. I didn't realize a simple tap on the shoulder would freak you out so much," the passenger says. "It's not your fault," replies the cabbie. "Today is my first day on the job after 25 years of driving a hearse." ------------------------------------------------- If I Could Talk To The Animals A ventriloquist walked up to an Indian and said "I'll bet I can make your horse talk." Indian: "Horse no talk" Ventriloquist: "Sure watch this. Hi horse. How does you master treat you?" Horse: "Oh, he is good to me. He gives me food, water and he keeps me out of the sun." Ventriloquist: "I'll bet I can make you dog talk." Indian: "Dog no talk." Ventriloquist: "Sure watch this. Dog, how are you? Does your master treat you good?" Dog: "Oh! He treats me good. He gives me food, water and he plays ball with me." Ventriloquist: "I'll bet I can make your sheep talk." Indian: "Sheep Lie! Sheep Lie!" ------------------------------------------------- Farting Contest An old man and his wife have gone to bed. After laying there a few minutes the old man farts and says,"Seven Points." His wife rolls over and says, "What in the world was that?" The old man replied, "It's fart football." A few minutes later the wife lets one go and says, "Touchdown, tie score." After about five minutes the old man farts again and says, "Touchdown, I'm ahead 14 to 7." Not to be out done the wife rips another one and say, "Touchdown, tie score." Five seconds go by and she lets out a squeaker and says,"Fieldgoal, I lead 17 to 14." Now the pressure's on and the old man refuses to get beat by a woman so he strains really hard but to no avail. Realizing a defeat is totally unacceptable he gives it everything he has but instead of farting he soils the bed. The wife looks and says, "What the heck was that?" The old man replied, "Half-time, Switch sides".

When adversity befalls the 'wicked' it is referred to as punishment and trial when it befalls the virtuous. What we learn from it is far more important than the label we give the event. The destruction of Ad and Thamud is a lesson to any civilisation (people) that think that they are invincible, Katrina helped expose the ills of capitalism, the racism that exists in the USA, the vulnerability of the sole superpower etc. Yes, neither theodicies nor miracles exist anymore. It requires much greater faith and less "signs" to believe today than it did around the times of the prophets. Castro, This statement is partially right; miracles witnessed by the Sahaba (i.e. the Revelation of the Qur'an) surely solidified their faith. But our mere existence is a miracle, the birth of a child is a miracle and there are other examples all around us which are signs of Divine presence in 'human' affairs.

Xoogsade, I don't have any clear reference that I can refer you to that clearly says "do not take this literally/allegorically" or that explains in clarity and depth how the traditions are to be understood. It came to my knowledge that Arabs use the number 70 (i.e. 70, 700, 7000, 70 000 and even 700 000) as you have seen in many traditions to give the idea of a huge number. Ibn Khaldun in The Muqaddimah talks about the narration about dreams being a 70th of prophecy and clearly says that this should not be taken literally and explains the reasons why. More than that I can unfortunately not offer but I would appreciate greatly if someone else could. Saxib, I can't say for sure that the universe was created in 50,000x6(days). Allah knows best. Besides, God could have created the entire universe and everything in it by saying "Be" and they would have "been" instantly. Allah SWT surely has the abilty to say Qun fa ya Qun but The Exalted said... Verily your Lord is Allah, who created the heavens and the earth in six days, and is firmly established on the throne (of authority), regulating and governing all things. (Surah Yunus 10:3) He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in six Days (Surah Hud 11:7) Allah SWT knows best!

Originally posted by OneEightSeven: How can u have dida as a number 1 goalie?? When there is Cech and Buffon. For all his good qualities for me Lampard would make way Gerrard? Even if we follow what northener is saying I would pick gerrard because it was him who lifted his team in CL Final, wasn't it?? 187, The four top goalkeeprs in the world are Dida, Buffon, Cech and Cassilas. Buffon thinks Dida is the best in the world and vice versa, I think both are good and it wouldn't be unfair if either won. Cech plays in a team that is extremely defensive minded (AC Milan plays 4-3-1-2, Juve plays 4-4-2 while Chelsea play 4-5-1, the Chelsea system protects the goalie the most). Gerrard could also feature, but L'pool lifted the cup as a team (in my view, Carragher was the best player in the final for L'pool team - he had the most cramps, lool). As I said earlier, everyone has opinions on awards. Soma Inc, I realise that you were made a moderator, congrats mate, but I just hope that you don't become as biased (like you are when talking football) in doing your job. All Chelsea players "deserved" being chosen while you "don't know" whether the European Player Of The Year deserved it? Boy you are biased! I watched the awards but I was amazed Chelsea was the only premier league team to have appeared on the first team list. People think the Premiership is boring, that is why AC Milan has sold 50 000 season tickets :eek: and ca. 70 000 watch Barca play small teams, while Stamford Bridge is half-empty. Several teams in England (Bolton, Man U etc.) play and some have also started copying the Chelsea style of defensive and cautious football. To add insult to injury, they want to charge 50 quid for that.

Northerner, Every awards has its controversy, but the players have spoken! There are other players that could have made the team...the likes of Cannavaro, Ibrahimovic, Gerrard etc. But who would you remove from the line-up and who would take their places?

She said the plane had been chartered by Gambian President Yahya Jammeh and had entered Peruvian airspace "without permission". looool, Yahya AJJ Jammeh is a rare breed! I knew a guy who went to school with him. He has promised the players $1million if they win the U17 tournament. BRING ME THE CUP AND I'll GIVE YOU 1 MILLION DOLLARS - Jammeh

Five Rossoneri in FIFPro Awards Anyone saw the FIFpro World XI Player Awards? Seems like professional players (the 38,000 or so who voted) admire AC Milan players and love the way they play football. Five Milan players were chosen in the best XI of the world; Chelsea had three players, Barcelona had two and Real Madrid had one player. 1. Dida (AC Milan) 2. Cafu (AC Milan) 3. Nesta (AC Milan) 4. Terry (Chelsea) 5. Maldini (AC Milan) 6. Makelele (Chelsea) 7. Lampard (Chelsea) 8. Zidane (Real Madrid) 9. Ronaldinho (Barcelona) 10. Eto'o (Barcelona) 11. Shevchenko (AC Milan) ...oh, and Ronaldinho was voted the best player in the world by the players.

Salafi Da'wa, Minhaj literally means way doesn't it? Every Prophet was given a "way" of how to guide the people and we follow the minhaj set by the Noble Prophet Muhammad SAWS (Qur'an and Sunnah). Am I wrong in saying this? Xoogsade, You said... Should I assume that the objective was to convey that too many sects will appear and too many people will enter heaven without being tested/questioned? You get to wonder what is the point of quantifying? The Prophet SAWS used the number 71 to describe the division of the Jews, 72 to describe the Christians and 73 to describe Muslims. This means that Christians would be split up in more sects than Jews would and Muslims would be divided more than the Christians. The numbers 71, 72 and 73 are therefore allegorical and not literal figures of the divisions to come. Another question I have for you about the sects, just because each one claims to be a saved sect, should I give them all the benefit of the doubt and treat them all equal in the eyes of islam? to me, their claim means nothing unless they support their views with evidence from islam without deviating the meaning and making it inline with a destorted view of theirs they hold dear. One group will be holding on to what Allah SWT has ordained through the Prophet. Now, I'm not saying that all are (or should be seen) to be correct, neither am I saying which sect is the 'saved' sect. Salafi da'wa has repeatedly pointed out that the Salafi (or Wahabi( are the saved sect. If you converse with a Shi'a Ithna Cashari, he/she would tell you the same thing and that applies to all divisions (otherwise there would be no point in belonging to that particular sect). The prophet is the Only role model I must emulate while others have my respect as fellow muslims and educated scholars and brothers in islam. I agree with you bro, but all Muslims claim to folow the path the Prophet SAWS told us to take. If the numbers 71,72,73 were supposed to mean just "large numbers", don't you think the prophet would have said Muslims will be devided into large numbers as jews and christians were devided into large numbers? They are allegorical as I've stated previously on several occasions. The Qur'an also says that the earth and heavens were created in six days. The Christians take it literally and even went further on to believe that God rested on the 7th day (hence the Sabbath), subhannallah! It is important that we didn't take this literally because ayam actually means 'periods of time' in that particular context. Literalism has its dangers. Callypso, I'm glad you understood what I was getting at. Boqol jeer baan yiri xadiiskas literally yaa loo fahmin.

Salafi, Why do you keep asking me about my minhaj? Aren't we of the same minhaj? Or maybe I misunderstood the words of Allah SWT when he said... "And unto thee have We revealed the Scripture with the truth, confirming whatever Scripture was before it, and a watcher over it. So judge between them by that which Allah hath revealed, and follow not their desires away from the truth which hath come unto thee. For each We have prescribed a Divine law and a traced out way (minhaaj)"... [al-Ma'idah 5:48] My minhaj is the Qur'an and the Sunnah, do you have anything besides that? Every sect believes they are the saved sect, otherwise they would 'switch camp' don't you think? This issue is not about that but about literalism sxb.

Bakar, The main aim why I brought up this issue is because Arabs are known to use the number 70 to refer to a large number. 70 000 is such a small number in the literal sense in this day but was a huge number for the Muslims of 7th century Arabia. Was the Prophet SAWS merely using allegory to explain this tradition? My view is that it is not "opposite" to the view you hold but that you were brought up to take these kind of traditions literally because of the era you live in. Xoogsade, I didn't mean to kill it off but I realise that it would mean to challenge a lot in order to ratify this kind of thinking. People did go off track and Literalism has been the natural reaction. When a society takes things to the extreme, a paradigm shift naturally results in another extreme. Half a milleneum ago, Christian clergies decided everything in the life of Europeans. These clergymen were so extreme and misguided in their ways that they were in the way of any scientific endeavors. When they were got ridden off, the scale shifted all the way to the other side and now people accept everything "scientific" and shun religion. Another example is Iran, during the time of Shah Pahlavi, the USA and GB tried to radically and swiftly secularise and westernise the Iranian society. The reaction was the Islamic Revolution where people went towards the other side of the scale and are today seen to be a very strict Islamic society which shuns westernisation and secularisation. I think you get what I'm trying to get at here. We all believe what we were taught by our teachers and Islamic leaders. If you were taught to take these traditions in their literal sense then you might find another interpretation to be unaceptable/unthinkable depending on the dominant thought in your geographical area. I'm not taking about a hidden meaning but suggesting that the numbers used are not to be taken literally. Rashiid, As I said a few times, we can see the number 70 used a lot in Islamic traditions because Arabs use it to express the idea of a large number. If we take them all literally then we run the risk of missing the point the Prophet SAWS is intending to make. Allah SWT knows best.

Let's all (IA) make the moderators' work easier by acting in a civil manner. I wish the new moderators all the best and hope they don't have to exercise their powers all too often (this should be a good thing ). Originally posted by Libaax-Sankataabte: Advice for the new mods: the majority of the nomads will be on your side but there will always be the very few who don't appreciate a civilized dialogue. The best way to remedy such situations is to make it clear that your actions(editing/deleting) as a moderator are absolutely not personal. That is the trick. Believe me it works. LST, Sxb, this sounds like you are saying "Anyone who doesn't agree (referring to "on your side") with a moderator is on the wrong." Perhaps it's my poor comprehension

Originally posted by xiinfaniin: So my question has been and still is if the companion of the prophet were not raising these questions and took the literal meaning of the script why should we? Are we trying to arrive at better and superior understanding than theirs? xiinfaniin, Sxb, a lot of things hapenned after the death of the Noble Prophet SAWS. His companions were divided and even fought amongst themselves. Since the time of the Messenger, Muslims have grazed both extremes. Currently, literalism reigns but is naturally a reaction to the preceeding views which caused the paradigm shift. This discussion might seem odd to some today but Literalism was alien to the people who lived in the time of Ibn Taymiyah and even some 500 years later when they were re-introduced. I had a feeling this issue could not be discussed without challenging/adressing the aspect of Literalism in Islam as a whole, a discussion which we are (at least I am) ill equipped to undertake. I shall leave it at that sxb.