Originally posted by Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar: At least you could have brought "sari-like" garment of Hindida instead of bringing qamiis [your "kamiz" or as they call it sharwal kameez (surwaal qamiis), itself Carabi words]. Qamiis dhaqankooda xataa ma'aha. They just re-styled the real qamiis that Carabta men wear. That thing never looks dirac, it in fact looks more like a long shaati. Correction; it's called salwar kameez, not "sharwal kameez." You claimed it's not dhaqankooda, here I give you proof of the opposite: Salwar-kameez is the traditional dress worn by various peoples of South Asia. And about koofibaraawe, how can it be a thing of reer Cumaan when it isn't even made there in the first place, but Baraawe is. Quite the contrary, that koofi is made in Cumaan as well as in Zanzibar. On the issue of what you claimed about the "alindi", a hint of Malindi without the "M" suffices to convince anyone of its origin. The very word of "alindi" is Swahili. Since Swahili originated in Tanzania, it's people from Tanzania who settled in Baraawe and brought with them the koofiyad and "alindi." There you go!

This conference has to be commended. The time to to investigate, analyze, review, inspect, ask critical questions about and dispel the taboo and myth of the Holocaust is overdue. The West claims to be democratic and touts its Freedom of Speech, yet you will be sent to a prison if you deny the Holocaust. Talk about hypocrisy!

Originally posted by Jacaylbaro: TO: Security Council United Nations New York, NY 10017 TO: Chairman and Deputy of the African Union TO: IGAD, EU, ARAB LEAGUE & Somalia Contact Group SUBJECT: PLEASE SUPPORT SOMALILAND AND HELP IT GAIN REPRESENTATION IN THE UNITED NATIONS AND AU. We, the undersigned, the pro-democratic movement in Somaliland, comprising National Human Rights Commission, civil society organisations, human rights defenders, operating under several non-governmental national level umbrellas and networks wish to request your support for an issue that is close to the hearts of many people in the Horn of Africa as well as around the Globe. This is the matter of UN and AU membership and recognition for Somaliland. Brief Description/History of Republic of Somaliland: The Republic of Somaliland is a free and peace-loving state, and its democratically elected government is the only one that represents the interests and wishes of the people of Somaliland. Somaliland is the only nation not represented in the global assembly. The United Nations and AU's exclusion of Somaliland violates the principles and spirit of the UN and African Charters, in particular the fundamental principal of universality, and of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Somaliland and its three million people are capable of making significant contributions to many UN and Au efforts in and around the African continent particularly in the Horn of African region. Somaliland is also eager to do its part to combat such international problems as poverty, regional conflict, terrorism, drug trafficking, organized crime, and environmental degradation. However, Somaliland is denied an important means of collaborating with international partners. This unnecessarily complicates the task at hand and hampers efforts to deal with such critical issues. Somaliland is a democratic nation that respects human rights, freedom, and peace. Somaliland meets all the requirements of UN and AU membership. It makes little sense that Somaliland is ignored when considering the fact that Somaliland serves as a model for freedom and democracy in the African continent and Muslim world and a beacon of hope for those living under dictatorial rule. To safeguard peace and democratic institutions in Somaliland from the combined assault of fundamentalist Islamists and destruction the United Nations and AU has to facilitate the necessary steps towards granting recognition to Somaliland and its full membership in the family of United Nation. Please support Somaliland and help it gain representation in the United Nations and AU. Petition: Somaliland stands ready to take its rightful place among the member states of the United Nations and African Union. Including Somaliland in the United Nations and AU would make the world body more representative, comprehensive and effective. We, the undersigned, support Somaliland and Somaliland's recognition and representation in the United Nations and African Union. Thank you for your assistance. Sincerely yours, Somaliland Human Rights Organisations Network SHURO-NET Somaliland National Human Rights Commission Horn of Africa Human Rights Watch Committee (HORNWATCH) TO: Somaliland Human Rights Organisations Network SHURO-NET TO: Somaliland National Human Rights Commission TO: Horn of Africa Human Rights Watch Committee (HORNWATCH) SUBJECT: SOMALILAND REPRESENTATION IN THE UNITED NATIONS AND AU. We, the undersigned, the international and regional organizations of the world, hereby deny your request for Somaliland's representation in the United Nations and AU. Reason of denial: Somaliland doesn't merit breaking away from Somalia. This is final decision, no appeal will be considered. Sincerely yours, Security Council United Nations New York, NY 10017 Chairman and Deputy of the African Union IGAD, EU, ARAB LEAGUE & Somalia Contact Group

Originally posted by mantra: Taliban, thank you very much for confusing me further with tales of spinach and desserts Much obliged.

Originally posted by Devilangle: where was dirac importad from? Very curious 2 know From the Indian subcontinent. I don't exactly know what the people in the Indian subcontinent call it, but I think the Somali dirac (transparent) is a version of the Indian "kameez" or Bangladeshi "kamiz": On the other hand, the Rajasthani women wear garbasaar similar to that of Somali's: Originally posted by Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar: Maxaa cadeys heysaa? From Zanzibar: From Oman: Originally posted by Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar: For dances: Saar, Buraanbur, kabeebey, dhaanto, etc. At least one traditional Somali dance was imported from the UK. You want me to bring factual info or any visual information that supports my allegation? Here you go:

Originally posted by mantra: I fail to see what is so appealing.. Oftentimes, what appeals to humans isn't good for them, in fact, it's harmful to them. Take an example in adultery and fornication; it appeals to humans, yet everyone knows its damaging (pregnancy, abortion, spreading HIV & STD, broken families, iwm) effects to society. The example of Islam vs what appeals to humans is spinach vs crème caramel: vs Spinach isn't visually appealing, not easy on the tongue and saliva, yet it's a natural product that if you eat regularly it provides many benefits to your health. The crème caramel, however, is visually appealing and very easy on the tongue and saliva, yet it's an artificial product that if you eat regularly it can cause serious damage to your health.

Originally posted by Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar: And yaa dirac sameeyo? Of course dirac is imported, as are most, for Soomaalis do not manufacture it. So, what other communities that wear dirac? Yemenis, as some say, well, I had never seen ancient Yemenis wearing it, nor do I see it now. Even macawiis, hoosgundi is the real Soomaali name for it, and as the its authentic Soomaali name indicates, waa guntiino hoos ah. Men wore guntiino hoose, waana go'yadii caddaa, mid shafka la saaran yiray iyo midkii hoose, hence labago'le, or as the Banaadiris called "lamagoodle." Koofibarawaani is as Soomaali as town Baraawe is in today. Koofibarawaani, to this day, carries Baraawe's name, the original place it was made from, which was later exported, by the old rulers of Baraawe, the reer Cumaan, to Sansibaar, another outpost they ruled. From Sansibaar, it spread to Sawaaxili lands reer Cumaan ruled, such as Mombaasa, Malindi and other coastal towns in Keenya and Tansaaniya. However, still, the koofibaraawe those communities wear is starkly different from ours. Baraawe is the only town that singlehandedly contributed to Soomaali culture than any other town, ancient or modern. There is alindi , a rich garment there is caanobaraawe, there is muufobaraawe. And about that picture, yes, it is one of our ancient culture. It is still found in the countryside, used by the nomads, same as ashuun, dhari, kuul. There is a reason why Soomaali culture is called hidaha iyo dhaqanka . It isn't limited to towns and cities, where diracyada and others dominate. To this day, only do you see countryside folks proudly wearing guntiino, an almost exinct rich cultural heritage. Macawis (hoosgunti, also known as lungi, longyi, iwm) originated in Southern India. Dirac originated in the Indian subcontinent or the Middle East. Koofiyad Baraawe either originated in Zanzibar or the Arabian peninsula. Baraawe was a resting and resupplying site (sort of an outpost) for travelers from the Arabian peninsula and the Indian subcontinent. Baraawe was founded as a town after Omanis well settled in Tanzania and Kenya. Baraawe was settled by people from Tanzania and Kenya. How else do you explain the form of Swahili spoken by reer Baraawe? Swahili originated in Tanzania. The bottom line, real Somali culture existed in the nomadic lifestyle of Somalis. Most Somalis are no longer nomads, having become urbanized (courtesy of globalization) and living in urban centers (Muqdisho, Hargeysa, Kismaayo, iwm). Today, most things that relate to Somali culture was imported from other cultures (Middle East, Indian subcontinent).

The following is an example picture of what defines real Somali culture: How many Somalis sleep on such barkin? I doubt if even 0.5% of Somalis sleep on such barkin. There are very few real Somali culture that exist today. Most of what's today considered Somali culture was imported from others, including macawis, dirac, koofiyad, xalwo, sambuus, bariis, iwm.

Originally posted by Caamir: The secesionists are making this case that the South is a breeding ground for terrorists and won't have a viable adminstration. They were appealing for recognition based on this premise. If the US and Europe find it's in their interests to recognize Somaliland, then they will do it. Al-Qaida, terrorists, fanatics, fundamentalists, radicals, iwm will not factor. It will also not matter whatever appeals the secesionists come up with. Recognition is upto the interests of the US and Europe. Furthermore, do you think Somaliland's allegations can outsmart what the CIA and European intelligence apparatuses know about Somalia? Sxb, you surely know this farce by the NSPU is a waste of time and energy, at best diversionary from the real problems (spreading AIDS, killing, war and invasion by Ethiopia) in Somalia.

Originally posted by me: NSPU is doing a great job for Somalia and Somali Unity. How is that? First, what was the person who named this organization "Northern Somalis for Peace and Unity" (NSPU) smoking? As the name clearly indicates, the organization is about Northern Somalis, not Southern, Eastern or Western Somalis. Why include "Northern" if it's about Somalia and Somali Unity? :confused: This kind of conference is very familiar; a gathering of secular armchair wannabe "intellectuals", former useless politicians and opportunists envisaging a career a la Somalia's future Chalabi or Karzai. This conference is a followup to the one organized by the US after the ICU defeated the ARPCT, a development that highly alarmed the US and Europe. So what will the conference achieve? Mark my word; Nothing. Nothing, because the organizers and participants do not live in Somalia, they live (have been living for many years, +10 years) in a different reality, they are individuals who only represent themselves not even enough number of Somalis in the cities they live. What's more, why would they hold a conference about Somaliland when there's an incoming war in the horizon that will kill and displace thousands? Is the Somaliland issue more critical? Is uniting with Somaliland more important than thousands who will be killed and displaced by the TFG and their Ethiopian patron? :confused:

Originally posted by Somali_Friend: Just one small example: “Legally the Government is still the Government, but we are the power in Somalia. In order for the Government to fulfill its role, and for us to continue doing what we want to do and to provide leadership to our people, we need to come together” Shiek Hassan Dihir Aweye http://www.somaliweyn.com/pages/news/Sep_06/1Sep24.html First, thanks for taking the time to look for your evidence. However, as you can clearly see what Sheikh Dahir Aweys said, the TFG is a government without power, in short a paper government. The power is with the ICU which can crush the TFG. But because the ICU cares about the welfare and wellbeing of Somalis, because it wants to stop the bloodshed, anarchy and lawlessness once for all, that's why it has offered the TFG an invitation to collaborate for the benefit of Somalis. Originally posted by Somali_Friend: If you are in US it would be a state just like California or New York If you are in Canada it would be a province just like Ontario If you are in Britain it would be just like Scotland place in the UK of Great Britain. All these places have different historical reasons and basis, but their relation to the government of the whole country or union they are part of is very similar. I see you're comparing Puntland to a US state like California or New York, a Canadian province like Ontario. Your comparison is deeply flawed. California, New York or Ontario isn't self-declared autonomous state/provice like Puntland. Sxb, you can do better than this.

Why do the US and Europe care about Muslims in Darfur and Somalia? Is it because of love? Why don't the US and Europe care about Christians in Africa? Is it because of hate? 5 million African Christians gruesomely and horribly died in Congo and Rwanda as a result of civil wars and ethnic cleansings, yet the US and Europe didn't care or even bother to rescue them. As Christian nations, the US and Europe are supposed to care about their fellow African Christians, but they only show neglect and indifference. Instead, they love and rescue Muslims. Why? :confused:

Originally posted by Somali_Friend: Puntland is a state in Somalia Please elaborate what you mean by "state."

Originally posted by Somali_Friend: Which ones do you want? The interviews shiek hassan tahir did The declaration from first Khartoum meeting The Invitation of TFG to Mugadishu to govern the country from Mugadishu instead of Baydhoa If you insist on a link I can find you one probably on Somaliweiyn easiest. Look, if you are seeking a game of semantics, I can entertain you, but you and me know it's a waste of time. The evidence I asked you concerns what you stated about "legitimate government of the country", a terminology I highly doubt the ICU used. Sure, the ICU generously invited the TFG to Muqdisho to work together to rebuild Somalia and solve its many problems. The ICU did that in order to stop the bloodshed, anarchy and lawlessness once for all, even if that means sharing power with a fake temporary government that did nothing positive since it was elected dubiously in a foreign country. That was then, but since then the TFG has been gradually showing its true color; a power hungry corrupt temporary government that wants to claim all credits and power through the help of Ethiopia and Western countries that neglected and abused Somalia for more than 1.5 decades. So go ahead, and provide evidence where it says (or was said) "legitimate government of the country." Bear in mind, there's a difference between a "legitimate" government and "temporary" or "transitional" government.

Originally posted by *Aisha*: This is what I call real ignorance!!! Try to understand their justifications. I don't think it's ignorance. If you are a typical redneck and for years the media has been feeding you everything from 911, terrorism, sleeper cells, Al-Qaida, Middle Easterns, Iraq, iwm- then it's only natural that you will be against building mosques. I am curious, if you live in Muqdisho, will you allow Jerry Falwell to build a church a short distance from your villa?

Originally posted by Somali_Friend: What was the reason ICU declared repeatedly and loudly that ICU accepts and recognizes TFG as the legitimate government of the country? Was ICU expecting to make an inside coup and take and use the TFG legitmacy? Did ICU miscalculate the number of parliamentarians it can count on for this job? Did ICU failed to kill and scare enough parliamentarians from its opponents? what do you think? AFAIK, the ICU didn't declare repeatedly and loudly that it accepts and recognizes the TFG as the legitimate government of the country. If you have evidence, please provide it (multiple links with different dates attesting repeated acceptance and recognizance). I don't agree the TFG is legitimate. Why? Because it wasn't elected in Somalia. Furthermore, the TFG is made of current and former warlords, corrupt politicians (some from the past regime), profiteers, mercenaries and criminals. What's most troubling about the TFG is its ideology is based on (Westernized) secularism and most if not all of its members are diehard seculars. The TFG and its members aren't independent from Western influences and meddlings.

Originally posted by Sheikh Yusuf: mystic, I wear my beautiful barwaani hat! Isn't that Arab hat copied from Oman or Arabs in Zanzibar? Sxb, that's not Somali culture or fashion.

Originally posted by Sophist: There is no Surah or Hadith which prescribes the killing of the Taariku Salaat! (unless you take the literal that Taariku salaat is Kafir and the qiyas is, anybody oo ridoobey waa in qoorta laga gooyaa) What about Taariku Salaat who parties at nightclubs, drinks beer, dates and fools around with girls he's not married to? What about Taarikatu Salaat who does what the mentioned Taariku Salaat does?

Originally posted by Sophist: He was immoral Traitor Please do tell or lecture us about the immoral Traitor for many of us have no knowledge of Somalia's history.

Originally posted by Caamir: ^I think he meant the Qaadiriya sect. Little error. Do you mean he meant the father of the Qaadiriya sect in Somalia? :confused:

mystic, you are welcome.

Originally posted by Kamalu Diin: The lower Shabelle is known to have the highest religious scholars in any region of Somalia. For those of you who are not aware, I like to jog your memory that SHEIKH AWEYS AL-QADIRI- the father of Islam in Somalia was born and raised in Lower Shabelle. Dr. Ali Said Faqi Alifaqi@yahoo.com SHEIKH AWEYS AL-QADIRI lived in the days of Sayid Maxamed Cabdulle Xasan, about 100 years ago. Dr. Ali Said Faqi claims SHEIKH AWEYS AL-QADIRI was the father of Islam in Somalia. What does that means? Is there is such a title as the father of Islam in a country? Did Islam reach Somalis just a hundred years ago? Wasn't Muqdisho and other coastal cities and towns strong Islamic centers in the 13th/14th/15th centuries? Didn't Ibn Battuta visit Zaylac, Muqdisho and other parts of Somalia in the 14th century? What's Dr. Ali Said Faqi concocting? :confused:

So what has Abdiqasim's change of position got to do with the Islamic Courts Union? It's Sheikh Sharif, Sheikh Aweys and others who are leading the ICU, not Abdiqasim. Sheikh Sharif, Sheikh Aweys and the current ICU leaders were not part of the old (secular) system where Abdiqasim had a stance different than his current one. And what is wrong with changing one's position? One can reform, repent and change his previous wrong positions.

Originally posted by mystic: Instead of arguing, CAN ANYONE CONFIRM IF THIS NEWS IS IN FACT TRUE OR NOT. If not they we shouldn't dwell on a news that is based on western lies. It is propaganda such as this that makes me question if what the west says about the taliban is in fact true! So people, is this true or not? Is someone lying about the shiekh? If so why? mystic, just a few weeks ago, the UN reported about 720 Somali militias who fought alongside Hezbollah in its July battle with Israel. That report was supposed to be a reliable and trusted report from the mouth of a well known and supposedly respected international organization (UN). Was the UN report true? Of course not. The report killed what was left of the shattered image and reputation of the UN. If a UN report could not be true, then a FOXNews or its affiliates' report could not be true. I have checked major Somali sites (Hiiraan, Dayniile, Banadir, iwm), and haven't seen any salat-related beheading report.

The US the sole superpower along with troops from many countries (Italy, Canada, Pakistan, Malaysia, iwm) failed to pacify Somalia in the 90's. African troops have better chance? :confused: