Originally posted by makumba: we have our own problems and death to deal with so letes put the iraqi death to a side for now. The problems affecting Iraq and Somalia are interrelated; the US is occupying (one through outsourcing, the other directly) both countries and killing its citizens. The ICU insurgency can draw lessons from the Iraqi insurgency. We have a lot to learn from our Iraqi brothers and sisters.

Originally posted by peacenow: Secondly, we are in the hopeless position of relying on the TFG, who have no support, but have to support, cause if they fail then it is back to square one, again. We don't "have to support" the TFG, for there's another alternative; join or support the ICU insurgency.

Originally posted by bilan: and also those cab drivers are the worst, i do not want them to talk to me about religion till they stop cheating on welfare. You are wrong; they aren't the worst. Most of them are hardworking good Muslims. Most important; they aren't seculars (ilbax).

Originally posted by raadamiir: I am sorry to say but the the people that did this act are animals walahi. They should be taken out of the streets of Mogdishu and to the Zoos where they belong. Now, what kind of comment is that? Do you have to use Allah's name to equate humans to animals? Do animals have the function of choice? And what kind of absurd suggestion is taking them to the zoos? In case if you didn't know, worse things happen in the West (supposedly the civilized world, civilized people), and I have yet to read or hear people making comments like yours. An example of worse things that happen in the West: Road where James Byrd Jr. was dragged to his death. James Byrd Jr.

Originally posted by Jacaylbaro: I didn't know you come this section ,,,,,,,,, It's necessary to sometimes come to this section for kormeer hawleed.

Originally posted by Castro: The African Union has approved a plan to send about 8,000 peacekeepers for a six-month mission that would eventually be taken over by the U.N. Seriously, how effective could those 8,000 peacekeepers be in stabilizing Somalia? Are they better than the Ethiopians (supposedly with the best military in Africa or East Africa)? Are they better than the Americans (and allies) who were there in the 90's and failed to stabilize Somalia? It wouldn't matter even if 80,000 Americans are sent to stabilize Somalia, because the Somali insurgency has widespread and grassroots support from Somalis.

Originally posted by Taako Man: Many of Reer Bay and Bakool have converted to christianity due to Christian NGO's offering them wealth and saying "jesus" brought you it. Tiyeglow etc have small chrisitan minorities. To ignore that, is simply ignorant and fallacious. Are you saying Reer Bay and Bakool can easily be converted to Christianity? If so, what makes them different from the rest?

You read too much about 12, 15, iwm steps programs to solve problems or improve life. These are rosy theoretical programs intended for the local (Westerners) people it affects. The truth is, those theoretical programs hardly work; it's primarily meant for readership.

Ali Deria strikes me as a typical secular. His argument is; in order to avoid discrimination, a Muslim should compromise with the teachings of Islam. You can't fault a secular, because Islam doesn't play an important role in the lives of seculars, plus they know little about it. I support and applaud the steadfastness and integrity of Somali cabbies in Minneapolis.

Originally posted by mystic: They are putting more lies out there. Those 25,000 aren't all Christians. The truth is we do not know what has been going on in parts of Somalia; Western missionaries have/had free reign to do anything for the past 16 years. Do you, I or others know what is going on in remote villages or towns of the "autonomous" regions? Do we know what has been going on before the emergence of the Islamic Courts Union? As far as anyone knows, a generation of Christian Somalis (in tens thousands) has been created. I am trying (perhaps you can help) to google for the official number of Christian Somalis worldwide. In the meantime, check these sites: SOMALI LUTHERAN Adeegga Masiixiyiinta Soomaalida

Somali Christian Refugees in Kenya Face Increasing Persecution by Daniel Blake Posted: Friday, September 29, 2006, 8:20 (BST) Somali Christian refugees in Kenya continue to face increasing attacks from Somali groups and struggle to receive adequate assistance to survive. (NPF) Somali Christian refugees in Kenya continue to face increasing attacks from Somali groups and struggle to receive adequate assistance to survive, according to reports received by Christian Solidarity Worldwide (CSW). Reports explain that one Somali Christian refugee, who shall be referred to as A, left Somalia with his family in fear of his life. Since their arrival in Kenya, A’s family has repeatedly been threatened by supporters of the Union of Islamic Courts (UIC). In addition, three of A’s children have been abducted by his Muslim relatives, and allegedly returned to Somalia, where it is thought that they may have been forced to enrol in a ‘rehabilitation’ centre. Two more of his children were abducted, but were rescued when the authorities were pressurised to act. A is currently recovering from an assault in July that left him comatose, yet this week on 27 September A and his family were attacked again, tells CSW. Statistics reveal that more than 3,400 Somalis have sought refuge in Kenya in the last three weeks, bringing the tally to almost 25,000 since the beginning of the year. It appears that as the UIC gains further ground in Somalia, there is a corresponding increase in attacks on Somali Christians in Kenya by UIC supporters. According to local sources, there are “many proxy representatives of the Islamic Shari’ah Courts in Nairobi”. Local sources indicate that the Kenyan office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) may not have provided enough support to Somali Christians. Since the UNHCR’s central office in Switzerland takes its lead from the Kenya office, the organisation has been slow in taking effective action. Tina Lambert, Advocacy Director for CSW says: “Having suffered already in Somalia these Christian refugees face a double tragedy when they encounter further hardship and persecution in Kenya. Their situation is deeply concerning and it is vital that the international community mobilise behind the UNHCR to ensure urgent protection for these Somali refugees and their families.” CHRISTIAN TODAY Do I read numbers like 3,400 and 25,000? That doesn't sound like a "few."

Originally posted by DigiTalbAct3ria: They made political mistake after political mistake. You make it sound like all they did was continuous political mistakes; not so. Sure, the ICU made some mistakes, calculated and expected mistakes, nothing serious.

Originally posted by mwafrica: Salaam aleikum my dear brothers and sisters. I am from Kenya, but I wanted to contribute something to this discussion... Wa aleikum salaam, mwafrica. Welcome to SOL. Mr. Kabukuru makes a convincing point; Somalia's invasion has as well to do with exploiting the dwindling energy resources worldwide. My thinking is, the Islamic Courts Union were developing into a stabilizing force, and logic would dictate they would contact China, Malaysia and other friendly nations about oil investments in Somalia. The Islamic Courts Union would have nothing to do with the US and other imperialist nations on oil investments in Somalia. So, this is where the US come in the picture.

Originally posted by Abu_Geeljire: Know that Whomsever allah guides none can misdguide and whomsever allah misguides none can guide......... On this, I agree with you. However, there are tens thousands Somali kids and children who are being raised as Christians by Western missionaries in Somalia and neighboring countries. If you recall, there's a hadith that states a child is born a Muslim until his/her parents (or caretakers) keep him/her a Muslim or convert him/her to a Christian, Jew, iwm.

Originally posted by DigiTalbAct3ria: If the TFG fails, will we remember it as a defeated enemy or a missed opportunity to unify our people? Before the Ethiopian invasion (with the help of the US and the collaboration of the TFG), Somalia was united and peaceful under the rule of the ICU. Answering your question, if the TFG fails, we will remember it as the entity that caused invasion, the killing of thousands innocent Somalis and the rape of Somali girls/women by Ethiopian invaders/occupiers, disunity, insecurity, the return of warlords (already underway), iwm. Before the ICU, the US, the UN, current and previous transitional governments, and numerous reconciliation conferences failed to unify Somalis and restore peace to Somalia. The ICU succeeded to do that; there was no need to break what was already fixed.

Originally posted by DigiTalbAct3ria: Should the people fight them or just submit and hope for mercy? Shouldn't Muslims submit and hope for mercy only from Allah? Are you asking us to worship humans? :confused:

Originally posted by Jacaylbaro: yes there are somali christian famillies but i'm sure they've baan increasing these years. Thanks for confirming what I have stated about the increasing number of Somali Christians. BTW, are you one of those Somali Christians? I am asking because I know you work for Western missionaries. This news and its title is 100% accurate; not a fabrication. It takes very little task to verify; check it on Google News. Here are 2 sources: Journal Chrétien BosNewsLife Journal Chretien - Le magazine chretien (chretien=christian) BosNewsLife is an Internet news agency covering stories on Christians and Jews living in difficult circumstances for whatever reason, including persecution, as well as other hard hitting news stories from around the world

Who else other than the Americans, Ethiopians and Kenyans are directly involved in the onslaught against the mujahideens of the ICU? I wouldn't rule out others (especially paid Mercenaries).

Originally posted by Abwaan: Somali Christians aa.....Acuudu Billaahi Mina Shaydaani Rajiim. The few inkaar-qabayaal are trying to raise their profile now trying to trick the world that there is a big number of what they call Somali christians... They aren't "few"; their number is increasing. There are tens thousands Somali kids and young children nurtured and cared in orphanages (and other similar institutions) by Western missionaries (some under the disguise of NGO's). The aim is evangelizing them and creating a sizable generation of Christian Somalis who are loyal to the West. I will even go further to conclude this generation of Christian Somalis are meant to rule Somalia, a la Ethiopia (a majority of Muslims ruled by Christians). These Western missionaries operate in regions whose leaders/administrations are seculars, probably in Waqooyi and Bari, and will definitely operate in the rest of Somalia once it's "pacified." Don't expect any objections from the TFG and other leaders of the "autonomous" regions; these are secular leaders who do not care about Islam and the interests of Muslims. Insha'Allah, this plot to "Ethiopianize" Somalia will fail.

Originally posted by Rahima: It was stable for six months until this good for nothing government destabilized it. The people who support this farcical transitional government will never acknowledge what the ICU managed; it succeeded where the US, the UN, current and previous transitional governments and the warlords failed.

Originally posted by fartun: the reason that divorce is increasing among young people is that... 98% of the people who get marry.. have an enormouse wedding cermony, trying to follow what every one would call an American dream for something that will happen one day of your life wedding day and night... i mean lets cut to the chase if you want to have a wedding that is going to cost 30K+ think about it who in the world have that amount of money saved in their bank unless you end up with a credit card that has a that amount of credit limit.. besides doing soming xaram, and making females and male gathered in one place ya allah.. don't expect that marriage to last... a house that you start with xaram won't last with halal in my opinion ofcourse alot of you will disagree with me this.. you are not getting married to the public for you to have huge cermony by the end of the day you will end up with the one you love and you want to be with.... i got married, and had my wedding cermoney held at the masjid.. and fed the people at the masjid and had a ducaa hold for me and my husband... and that is the best choice that i made in my life.. i din't want to have a huge wedding because i wanted to make my marriage to last and to have the dream marriages that our prophits had (PUH), so by all means if you want to have a lasting marriage please for heaven sake have a marriage were that is tradtion and based on teh religion rather than trying to be like a Westeren culutre... respect your religion and your culture if you want to have that marriage last for a life time... Well said.

Originally posted by Caamir: So, by all means let us celebrate the achievements in Somalia, even while recognizing the likelihood that we have not heard the last of the Islamic Courts Union. In contrast to setbacks in Iraq, Somalia shows that jihadist insurgents are eminently defeatable. But realize that the "Somalia model" is not easily exportable elsewhere. We need to tailor different approaches to different theaters of this global counter-insurgency. This is not a one-size-fits-all war. How so desperate they are for any sort of "achievements." They still believe jihadists are undefeatable supermen; that's why Max Boot is cautious about "recognizing the likelihood that we have not heard the last of the Islamic Courts Union." The Iraqi and Afghani insurgencies have done much damage to their confidence in their military and technological superiority; that's why they are seeking desperate "achievements" in defeating a far less formidable foe in the ICU. It's no wonder George W. Bush repeats the stakes in Iraq are too high and he accepts nothing short of victory.

It's only natural that there's an increase in the divorce rate of Somali communities in North America and Europe. Why is that? Because, Somalis like other immigrants, adapt to the dominant Western culture. An increase in the divorce rate is a Western culture.

Originally posted by Jacaylbaro: At least they are better than you ,,,, they doing da real things while u like to sit in front of your PC and chatting on the forums. You do da real things? I mean, what's the point of telling me I don't do da real things if you don't do it? I wouldn't want to do da real things, like directly or indirectly killing innocent Somalis. No sir.

Originally posted by Jacaylbaro: I like them coz they managed to kill somalis by somalis when they failed to kill somalis by themselves That's a deeply troubling statement. You admire those who have indirectly caused the killing of thousands innocent Somalis? If you didn't know, it's unethical to show admiration for killers, whether they directly or indirectly killed others. :confused: