Ace, It doesn't help to speculate on my motives. To this minute, I don't know if General Tuke is a real human being or a vampire creation of the hallucinating secessionts, let alone his clan. But that is beside the point. I could well accuse you of being Judge Nur himself. That is a tiresome game. The real reason for my article is to highlight and attack the unjustified victim-playing of the SNM clan. Again, I agree it is unfortunate we talk about this and that clan in 2011, but it is equally disheartneing a clan is trying to carve out a niche trival enclave for itself in 2011. And that men who are learned think this filthy clan project is viable. The rest of your points about where Somaliland stands today is good information, which I already know. It makes me happy.

According to your clan histriography which apportions culpability for crimes on 'aano-qabiil' basis,I could well be the guy in the video Jacaylbaro posted, ordering for the destruction of Hargeysa. According to notes from my biography, I was a student in Diri Dhaba, with the closest contact I had with SNM being in Faras-magaalaha, where they used to viciously munch daba-musbaar as if it was the flesh of 'Afweyne' itself.

War jacayl, Bahalkaad igu caayayso lacagbaaba lagu raadiyaa baryahan. :D Farmasiyo dhan baan wax kale iibinba.

Somali nationalist, I concede the attitudes of carafaat and some of the extremist elements of reer-aqoonsi-doon can boil one's blood. But I caution you against issuing threats that only serve to vindicate the fears of the doomsday prophets in Somaliland. If all the clan decide to leave somalia, may God make the road easy for them. But they will take only what is theirs and live with the consequence. They can't pilfer land from unionist clans. Simple, nude logic. Carafaat, No. I didn't fight against SNM. I wished them good luck when they were freedom-fighters. Once they turned into freedom-fighters who don't know about freedom, I started opposing them. There was nothing wrong with them resisting oppression, but the atavistic clannish mindset of this clan needs to be confronted vehemently.

For the record, I distance myself from any deragatory labels against SNM. My beef is with SNM's preoccupation with vengence and its treasonous tendencies, not against their struggle per se. And let me tell Norf and co. that I believe the somaliland label is very-well defined georaphically and conceptually. It represents a certain clan, not all those fall within the claimed territory. Charity begins at home, and those who decry coercive unification must first respect this principle when it comes to rights of the SSC, Awdal, Salal, and the sizeable Gabooye populations in Somaliland.

Whether the sole basis for the formation of Puntland was to counter Somaliland is a matter I cannot confirm or deny. There are more knowledgeable and informed people in this forum to discuss this. I, however, know that the Puntland masses have at all times wrapped themselves in undiluted Somalinimo, by word and by deed. It is a fact they have been cursed with poor leadership, but they have never dreamed of dismembering Somalia. Forget Faroole's foolish rants. Afterall, he is the guy who says people like me are not Somalis. Our terminologies often predetermine our thinking. One thing that is indicative of the parochial nature of your somalinimo is that you first take yourself as a Somalilander and secondly as a Somali. Therefore, you want the Somali's to put a roof on 'their' house, which means you don't think it is your duty to do so as well. This is a clear manifestation of your fiefdom mentality. Think big and aim higher. The shame of a Somalia is your shame, but of course that is only if you are a Somali nationalist. Instead, if you are a rer-hebel first, then the sheep market argument of ' first get your house in order' is justified. To summarize the core arguments: 1) Are you saying Somaliland will be ready to join the rest once the south solves its problems? If so, there is no need to argue over this. I agree. And it is a sensible decision. But I know, this argument is only put foward as a tactic never as a belief. 2) Is Ngonge saying the victors write history? No argument here, although the whinning from Somaliland shows the victory is not complete. It will be so when recognition finally arrives. But at least, the hollowness of the victim-playing game is exposed here, and I have adequately shown that Somalilanders share the art of feigning injury with Barcelona. Of course, I will not take the bait of ONLF from Carafaat. Let him open a seprate thread for that. There is no need to engage in side ambushes. But it suffices to say his modus operandi is that of tea-shop politicians with the unmistakeable trait of mindi mindi ku taag.

^ :D : D war haa'e, adigu tan ma aragtay: with the likes of Jacaylbaro reaching retributive judicial orgasm only through internet pulpits. sow sidii uun kolba oday fa.qa.sh ah online kuma makamadaysid oo kuma biyo keentid?

N.O.R.F;745300 wrote: Ok. You have acknowledged crimes were committed against others. But, what you (and others) keep failing to understand is, following the civil war, Somaliland had the RIGHT to go it alone. At the time, Somaliland (and anyone else) was well within its rights to seek independence (following the atrocities you acknowledge). What is this Zigzagging argument, which looks like a urine trail that a rowdy camel wantonly drew on a sand? Are you saying Somalilanders had the right to declare independence simply because they were massacred, while at the same time acknowledging this mistreatment was not reserved for them only? If that is not your point, then are you saying their secession should be contexualized and understood because the civil war in the south took a bad turn and the reality was such that Somaliland was left with no option? If this is your argument, it has strong but tentative merit. That merit has a short lifespan, for that same reality has changed and we are now in different times and context. Which means, if your argument made sense yesterday, it is laughable today. Somaliland has been presented with dozens of opportunities to sit with the rest of the Somalis in the last decade but has refused to do so. Which is not condemnable by itself given the quality of the governments in the South they were asked to sit with. But, you and me know the issue is not about the credibility of a government in the south. It is about clan ambition and grand scheme of Statehood for the clan that is so pure, so democratic, so civilized that it cannot mix with the unequals in the South. Which makes your points barely discernable much like the wink of a chinese boozer in a dimly lit casino. At the time, the country was in a mess (as a civil was going on). At the time, the SNM trusted only themselves. At the time, there was no government in Somalia. At the time, the other choice was warlords. What exactly were the prospects there at the time? Should the SNM have stayed as part of Somalia even though it was in a mess? Who should make such a decision? Would the region be as it is today without the formation of Somaliland? Hindsight is a wonderful thing and 20 years later Somaliland holds no regrets. Somalia is still a mess.Don’t worry I don’t expect you to know the answers to the questions above as you (and others) have never thought about them. The default position of anyone and any group when uncertainty transpires is to rely on one’s self. This is what the SNM did, it was their right to do it and I commend them for it (their concerns have been proven right). I have dealt with the core argument of these lines. In the first line about the choices SNM had, you haven't added any value to the discourse even by way of sensible falsehood. You barely explained or more accurately excused what your uncles did 20 years ago. Was the option taken by Puntland, for instance, not open for them? And speaking of the benefit of hindsight, it is SNM and you who are taking advantage of it. The SNM did not had any foresight whatsoever about an impending mayhem and anarchy in the South. If it had, it didn’t express it in those days. That doesn’t mean they didn’t hope for one. If we think the unthinkable and assume SNM had a visionary leadership with clearly defined goal, they didn’t implement it in Burco conference. The fact is that the outcome of that meeting was dictated by gun-wielding mostly rural youths, commonly known as ‘the Gaas-dhagoole’ Brigade. It is a fact any veteran SNM fighter readily gloats about. Which is why Norf’s conjectures about presumed foresightedness are the product of his own imagination! Where is the evidence to support the assertion that the SNM foresaw anarchy in the south? All indications are that the SNM leadership did only posses the potent ability of inciting clanmen easily agitated and titilated by the war chants of Tolaa'ayeey. And that is why it is a cardinal rule that you must have one eye firmly fixed on the exit door when sleeping with a married woman. You cannot rejoice behind slammed doors in such perilous situations. I empathized with Norf when he sought refuge in these hypothetical lines. You simply do not flaunt as evidences your own imaginations when debating in forums like this one of SOL, without leaving an exit door open by way of carefully crafted nuances. Lest some with the real property rights appear, much like the real owner of the woman, and show you the pain of indiscretion. On the difference between war crimes and genocide, law is not my area, but I know war crimes is about violations of laws of war, which is about rights and protections of non-combtants including prisoners of war. Genocide is about deliberate targeting of specifc groups (because of their religon, ethnicity, political ideology, race or any other commonality) for destruction by any ruling authority including governments, gurreilla groups, terrorist organisations etc. The SNM killed many POWs and mutilated civillians. The Barre government did the same. Therefore, it is reasonable to assume that both sides had committed war crimes. And that is where I think the one-dimensional justice notion which Somalilanders embraced is not ethical and logical. The SNM must investigate and indicte their side of the war criminals or must accept that the other side is not morally obliged to honour their judicial bad breath. It is also correct to assume both SNM and Siyad's government had committed acts that can fall within the genocide definition. But the one event usually propagated by genocide jingoists from the North doesn't look like it fits the definition. On the day, Hargeysa was bombed, thousdands of SNM clan civilians had left the town and were not harmed by Somali military and other clans for simply belonging to the SNM clan. That is a falsehood the SNM spread. Therefore, the SNM cannot monopolize and impose false narratives about the civil war in the north on the supposedly vanquished clans. It is a bit of strech to call this attempt as a victor's justice, for if their victory was complete, we would not have debated about proper accounting of the ugly episode. Instead, the topic would have been about clemency. But because the SNM's trumpeted victory is incomplete and illusory, their kangaroo courts will have to yawn for a while, with the likes of Jacaylbaro reaching retributive judicial orgasm only through internet pulpits.

If the Burcaawi Roble (must be in New Zealand now) listens this, let him recall the unforgetable lonely nights in Harare when we rewinded this song endlessly. BTW, I am sure Muse is partly singing a different version to Hadrawi's poem. Listen the start and tell me, camel milk. But nonetheless, it is huge thanks to you for making even more insteresting with finer lines.

Caano_Geel;745304 wrote: Tuke bari ka yimibaan tusay boogahaygoo u tilmaamay beeshoo tebi idhi dhambaalkii; taarkii ma geynoo isma tarin dedaalkuu u tabaabulshaystoo taab-gaabnidiisey naftu xadhiga towseed ugu turunturootoo latawaacaysaa. Miyuu tuuray hadalkii? Miyuu tiray jacaylkii? Mise tulud raqdeeduu ugu taaganyahay geed? Mise wuxuu tukanayaa faral iyo Taraawiix? Mise wuxuu taraarkii kala dhacay Tabciyo Sheekh? hhhhhhhmmmmmmmm. The melody is mind-soothing. Sublime lines! Caano, I still think Muse is not singing some of the original lines especially at the start of the song. Listen to the version I posted. Thanks

Caano geel, thanks for the correct lyrics. I have actually enlisted the help of my mom to get some of the words, but knew i missed some. Great song

A-Khadar, isku dookh baan nahay walaahui. That is some song! Especially I like the starting lines "igu dhere inanta waa taan dhur sugayee..." But the ones we remember most waa kuwaanu halaha ku soo rogi jirnay sida tan oo kale: Mohamed Nur Giriig Heestii Qawd baxay la moodyeey Qawd baxay la moodyeey Xubnahaaga qoraniyo, Labadaada qaar baa Qalbigaygu raace, Anigoo qab weynoo Quudhsada haweenkaa Qoraxyahay gudaysaa Maankayga qaadee Qawlka aan la yeedhaba Diinkiyo quraankiyo Quruxdaada mooye Qofna kuma amaanee :D Youtube generationka waxaan ka qaataa Maan qaboojisaa tahay. Speaking of moving blood, of course, Badayda miyaa la dhurayaa, Cirkayka miyaa la dhoofshaa, Dhirtayda miyaa la jarayaa, Dadkayga miyaa la dhalin rogi Ciidiisu miyey dhamaataa Ninkii dhoof ku yimid baa Geeridu dhibaysaa....

^ :D Only a fool will take this as a non-sisterly counsel. The macho side of me may not mind a sharp stone at the head now and then, but you are right, I better graze in safer fields. A_Khadar, As you would probably know from Tuujiye, I still listen music through the old cassettes with the two holes and a National Panasonic recorder. So, I cannot post any link here. But I tried to find this song everywhere including the UCID website where all Ciida.gale singers songs are posted. :D Go check. Luckily, I found the link on ASKARmotors.com, presumably a waaxiid hawd man who shares kinship with the illustrious Muse. Here is the song. It is a beautiful song. Enjoy. Click on this link: http://askarmotors.com/Muuse-Qalinle.html and choose song number 15.

^ :D A back-paining long bow of respect to marwo Blessed! I am confident this mild rebuke has nothing to do with the political bad breath in the other thread.

By the grace of the SYL martyrs and those whose blood is blue, the discussion has moved from victims to victors!! It is a different ball game. But a victor is hardly a whinner.

For a girl doesn’t have a clan, pretty Hawd girls only for you: Muse Ismaaciil Qalinle with his emblematic “Gabadh Togdheer”. :D Ninba waxuu tilmaamaa, halka taranka roobkiyo Laga helo tigaadee, tayyo lagu majiirtee Taan dumar ku leeyahay, waa Gabadh Togdheeroo Toban iyo lix jirahoo, hiddihii ku taadhee Maxammuudi toob weyn, saddex qayyd ka tolatayoo Oo daraya muusguna, taakiyo badh muuqdee Dhacluhuna taraxxa oo, tusbax luqunta galisoo Sidii boqorad taash xidhan, hadalkeeda tirisoo Kolba erey ku tuurtee Sida timo haldhaaleey, ugu tagay hurdada xalay Anigaba Togdheer baa, turdun iiga muuqdaa Noole wuxuu ka taahaa, ama salal ku sheegaa Ama gacan ku taabtaa, halka nabar ka taabtee Burco waxay ku taalaa, xiddidada tin iyo cidhib Tabinayaa dhigee, hadba dhan u talawshee Todobaatan jeer baan, soo toosay xalayoo Taan dumar ku leeyahay, waa gabadh Togdheer Peace to all!

I have no problem living with Ngonge's conclusions. They confirm my assertion that only one side is telling its story. Norf, you could have added © atrocities were committed by both Barre and SNM (D) Atrocities were committed against others too (E) C and D. And I would have circled E in this multiple choice question. The thread is also about teaching the difference between atrocities, war crimes and genocide to the shrieking prodigy of British-lovers.

Baashi, The Jew reference doesn't anger them. If it does, I am happy to retract. Infact, I have every reason to believe they are happy with the analogy. They are weird. What is insult for some of us is considered a praise in the North. :D Ngonge, YES is the answer. On a related issue, please ask your girls to stop sending me hate PM's. Let us keep the women and the maati out of from this and fight cleanly.

Ngonge, the question is irrelevant. For so many reasons, but I mention two here: I work for an international institution and they have little choice than to let me in. second, I have my people in Hargeisa and I don't need to be welcomed or treated well by anyone else. For the avoidance of any doubt and for the benefits of the hysterical Carafaat, my position on ONLF and the struggle against the colonial occupiers is clear. I have always asked myself if it is possible to support an organisation whose name I detest and whose strategies I disagree with. And the answer is yes. The ONLF is fighting aggression, occupation and slavery of the worst order. They are reacting to the rape of their daughters and mothers, and the dehumaniation of their elders and thinkers. It is a legitimate struggle and any freedom-loving human being will not see any fault in their struggle. It is a bona fide liberation movement. And I support it with all I have. However, that doesn't mean I am oblivious to the shortcomings of this otherwise remarkable organisation. The shortcomings start with the name. And I disagree with the name OGA.DEN and with any vision of an OGa.Denia state. There is no need for one. I, however, cannot accept to let a dwarf Tigre from the barren fields of Adwa to determine how I live and who I call myself. I refuse to submit to the idea that because other somali clans are not in the mood to fight aggression, the Oga.den clan, who is targeted for extinction by the Ethiopian regime, should not fight back. That is nonsense. And if the clan that is leading the fight against aggression happen to be the one that sired me, it is a coincidence. An unwavering belief in individual and collective freedom guides me and who is championing it comes second. That said, the issue is about Somaliland and not about Somaligalbeed. Other than invoking the matter of my identity and an altogather different issue, the recognition-seekers had nothing substantive to offer by way of defence to the important question of why their narrow fiefdom mentality should be allowed to kill Somali nationalism. Indeed, the fact is when their clanish prediliction is put on the on the spot light, their feeble personalised rebuttal is akin to the courtesy bow by of a woman whose lower garment accidently snapped before a watching gallery.

As a born-again Somalilander who started learning Somali history from the SNM days, you are not to blame if you can't mount any defense on issues that precede that period. You rely on information and analysis from the intellectual midget Xaji Xundjuf and the man whose name is the same as that of his tribe - Ayoub. The latter is sharp, but a sharpness whose horizon doesn't see beyond the clan enclosure is wasted.

Part VII To be stabbed at the back is not new to me and I am no more surprised by it. But to be stabbed by a nephew whom you are raising as a son, paying for his education, his hobbies and his fashion, is painful. The young man is the one who spread the falsehood that I slept with my maid, and that is why I continue to pay her even after she left the house three years ago. He said that to my mom. Why I pay money to a maid who no longer works for me is entirely up to me and my mom’s interference into this matter is obnoxious. The money ‘wasted’ is mine, so why would they lose sleep over this? I swear to God I never had any relationship with the maid. Never slept with her. Only one night, one cold August night, when the flu I got from office nearly killed me and the heater refused to work, did I call her and asked her to sleep on my bed so that I feel warm. The night passed without any incident. Never touched her, never bothered her. In the morning, She told me I embraced her and slept like a baby for the remainder of the evening. I was too sick to remember this and was in deep sleep. So, I don’t count that as harrassement. The reason I continue to pay her salary is because my mother, the nephew and the daughter of my aunty abused her and conspired to throw her out. I don’t like injustice and I objected to this mistreatment. The kids are crying for her. They will never find a better mother than her. Always patient with them, she was an angel. And a pretty one, too. But now the talk is she was something to me. The nephew’s mendacious story is bought by everyone, even family members. But to hell with them! Afterall, I learned that you can’t control the opinion people had of you, which means you can’t also influence the formation of such opinion. Unable to fight injustice, I have committed to pay her whereever she is. But then, she says she wants to come back and return the favour by looking after the motherless children. That is why I said she is adding complications. And the business of motherhood is an obligatory mortgage. A woman has to be obeyed, worshipped, suffered for carrying you in her stomach for nine months, for which no one sought your opinion. For feeding you when you were weak, again without you having a say in it. And at a later stage, you have to be her slave. You have to pay back the debt. You have to divorce your wives one after another and turn into a homeless adulterer. Something society thinks is bad, but may offer a redeeming happiness to those who embrace it as their destiny in this short life. But it is a mother and no complaint. The society knows you respect your mother’s wishes and deem you a good person. The tears of a maid are nothing compared to the blessings of a parent. Conformity is more sacred than justice.

Why a non-existent genocide is broadcasted with deafening vuvuzelas has nothing to do with honoring fallen SNM heroes or lander victims. To understand the main reason for this, one needs to look at the barely disguised divisions along clan and sub-clan lines among Somalilanders. The secession agenda stands on weak legal and moral grounds and needs some other support to escape death from asphyxia. And historically, tyrannical entities consistently employed the tactic of creating imaginary enemies to evade popular scrutiny of their bad ideas. What economic, political, social and cultural benefits are to be gained from dismembering Somaliland from Somalia? Who separates from whom in the knottily intertwined Somali society? What pressing and inescapable realities dictate such disunion? Answers to all these critical questions could reveal to the masses the irrationality of the secession agenda SNM militants imposed on the Somaliland populace. That is why old Migs have to dangle from buildings in Hargeisa. That explains the fixation with retribution rather than forgiveness. That is why old men who happened to be the front points of a military at war with foreign-backed shifta are given the persona of Adolf Aichman, solely on the basis of hearsays from traumatized former SNM fighters, who see phantom killers everywhere. The SNM chauvinists, who are seen as heroes in Haregeisa, but could well end up crowding the roll of shame of Somali nationalism if they don’t repent, know the shakiness of their hollow aspiration. That is why unionist parties are outlawed in their constitution, which boasts of being based on democratic principles. That is why fear of a fa.qa.sh revival and re-colonization are propagated every time a rebirth of a strong Somalia State is discussed. That is why freedom of expression and association is forbidden for Somalilanders who preferred to fit into more spacious pants than the narrow clan underwear the rest of the clan choked itself with. This, against a well-known reality that the sort of government system that led to the civil wars in Somalia, will not be able to come back again in any form. We all remember the bloody infighting that ensued after the declaration of secession in early 1990s. Their own internal feud is so intense that without Rayaale, we may have witnessed a second cycle of bloodshed. Now that establishment of political parties is legalized, brace for 45 different habros, each with a tiny flag and four-letter party name. The lot is clan-worshippers to the bone. They seek salvation in clan identity, oblivious to the time-tested reality that there is no endgame to a clan identity. Like the onion it is often equated to, clan identity gives you new faces in layers. A week ago, a guy from Burco area averred to me that he prefers to be under Sheikh Sharif or Abdiwali than to be humiliated by what he called a supremacist Awal boss. He meant Mohamed Hashi, the Finance Minister of Somaliland.

Ila wareedyo hordhac ah oo lagu kalsoonaan karo ayaa sheegaya in reer-aqoonsi-doon teleconference arintan kaga arinsanayaan, iyadoo go'aamada la filayo inay soo saaran ay ugu horeeyso in xaddidaada dhinaca xidhiidhka gabdaha ee isaaran la sii adkeeyo. :D Apparently JB is arguing that is not relevant given my move towards the maay-speaking South. Ayoub is said to be taking a hardline, while the rest of the flock are just going to do what they are best at doing: whine!

^ way isxigaanba. Waan taageersanahay fadiilatu Shariff Sakin.

GT, I am not Sifir, the Zero politician from SL, to change my political stance for alliance-building expediency. NG and Odweyne can form alliance with me on issues, but even at the height of our unholy marriage, it was clear we fundamentally disagreed on the secession issue. The Pirates you are born from aren't any better as far as my political vision for Somalia is concerned, but at least they don't wail every sunrise like a widow whose husband was killed the night she was deflowered. They were killed by Siyad Barre, they killed Mogadishaans by using foriegn army, but they moved on. These ones from the North have no life other than ceaselessly recite stories from bygone bad days.