HiilQaran did not lose nor did the good Professor. The expectations were always modest and we are aware of the current realities in Somalia's politics. Clan is very key, religious groups has an edge. As I said before, the ideas of HQ are strong and it has future in Somalia. It will only get strengthened if the good Professor gets a cabinet seat and starts to build his connections. But more than anything, HQ is a party with a winning idea: No federalism, no kowtowing to foriegners monopoly of Somalia politics, and liberal democracy. Overtime, these ideas will become the dominanat ideas. Professor Ahmed might even go to his teaching but HQ will live on. Edit- Carafaat, no where did I say I support Federalism. I was just doing a scenario analysis based on what I think will happen, not necessarily what i want to happen.

Naxar, you don't know bluelicious is a brainwashed teenage somali girl titilated by the skinny margi of fashion cat-walkers? Hassan is chubby for her. For me and you, he is attractive and the right size for his age.

Xaaji, Do you know Abitew Kebede (the guy with the guitar) was a superb singer loved by even non-Oromo speakers before he decided to quit music and became a pastor! Here is Yani Koo, one of his best songs. Apparently he is a close relative of Dhinbiil (the author of this outstanding antropological article) :D

Great man. This is the leadership that we all longed for. People who fell proud with when they step out and talk. Compare this to the sermons of Sheikh Sharif. Clear example that education matters in politics and that Puntlanders will need to get Faroole out of office for he is a relic of the old school of somali politics.

Carafaat, Care to enlighten me where the current SL-Somalia talks are headed to? I really don't know. Also, on federal states, you still can't fiure out that the 4.5 based parliament will follow a clan line to determine which regions should form a state? I don't like Federalism too, but then i don't believe in fairlytale either. I don't think the thing of Italian Somaliland Vs British Somalialnd will work. I just don't think. There can be no Federal State with two States (Somaliland and Somalia), because Puntland and others will also come with a deman for the same political status. If you ask me the best thing is to forget about Federalism and focus on devolution of political power and resources to the 18 regions. I believe thatwill solve many problems. Why are people talking about "SL built institutions for 20 years blah blah". Who is saying this must be destroyed. All we are saying is that the inherent contradictions in the SNM drive for secession - a secession agenda which is based on clan interest but is presented in the garb of geography, will bring out a bleeding challenge to SL sooner or later. Suppose Khatumo gets the PM post, and Awdal the foreign ministry in Somalia. Suppose millions of dollars are poured into Somalia and these ministers start to woo their constituenciies. Are we expected to belive that will not create confusion in SL? Let us be honest with ourselves. Of course, Suldaanka and the SNM diaspora who are not aware of the reality on the ground expect their cousins in SL to eat empty pride and aspiration, as if economic realities do not matter to the youth and business men in SL.

STOIC;868672 wrote: In all your scenarios all you are saying basically is that Somaliland is going to loose whether they like it or not as long as they don't act quickly now. ....Should Somaliland refuse to meet the demands of Somalia their only option is to gird for war (which the people are NOT ready for).Ain't that the merest whimsy hypothesis? . Sadly that seems where it is headed. this is a positive analysis of how it could be or will be not a normative how it should be. It doesn't matter what they been building the last twenty years.It doesn't matter the priorities and the hopes they been working on for so long. What has this got to do with SL's status within Somalia. Surely the progress and peace will go on. Don't know why schools would be closed because SL joined somalia. Carafaat, I will respond to your questions in detail tomorrow. But to accept clan as a reality in the south and put clan under the carpet in the north just because it is peaceful on this side is not correct. The rise of the south will undoubtedly create clan rivalries in the north as the interests of clans diverge. I don't know why people don't want to realize that. And if that happens, the dominant clan cannot hold the others at gunpoint. I just think the secession project is untenable. Its success rested on a continued mayhem in the south and if we accept the assumption the south wis coming back, then it is easy to see why clan tensions in SL will escalate. Aagain, it is not what I wish for SL, it is what i think will happen. In few years time, the uninformed stoic will understand what I am saying now.

burahadeer;868638 wrote: international community:D..the only hope alive hahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa You are deriding the mention of international community?? I thought your request for recognition is addressed to the 'international community' and not to Sado Cali, Abtigiis, Axmed Madoobe or Maaddeey. So, in that sense, it matters to you more than the south. Mintid, "borrowed muscles" is not invented by Oodweyne. Unless you are developing the Maaddeey malady of bililiqo.

Maaddeey!!!!!!!! Great day for Somalia, because the infidels are hit! 25 somali civillian infidels!

In fact, according to a very well connected veteran former SNM fund-raiser, only about 30% off the major clan in Somaliland are crazy about secession. Now, before you lynch me, that is what these insiders say not what I fabricate. Anyway, the somalia-Somaliland talks can only take the following shape and stages: Stage 1: SL insists on two-state solution (somaliland Indepedence). Somalia says no and the international community affrims the inviolability of Somalia's unity. Stage 2: SL realises that it can not seek secession and tables a demand for Confederation format. This too is rejected by Somalia because Somaliland is not a UN recognised country and Confederation is between two soverign entities who agree to come togather Stage 3: SL accepts the Federal System but insists the British Somaliland regions to be treated as one Federal unit. It is a fair request but then Awdal and Khaatumo may seek their own Federal status now that the British Somaliland identity is punctured. Scenario 4: Somaliland lives with the federal system but there will be 3 fedral states in the north and about 5 in the south. Scenario 5: SL leaders from the majority clan refuse to accept Stage 3 and shun alll approachs by Somalia and the international community and ready themselves for a war if it comes to that. This is unlikely to happen. Wars are not fought simply because a politician wants them but there has to be an element of oppression that the people who are supposed to rise up experience. In the absence of any attack from Somalia, the major clan in SL will see no point in rallying behind a war cry. The call for arms will then fall on deaf ears after a while. With other communities already getting in touch with Mogadishu, it will be hard to sustain a unilateral independence status. Conclusion: SL must negotiate a fair deal as soon as possible, Time is not on its side. Of course, all of this is assuming the south is finally out of the woods politically and stability-wise.

your name is mentioned, Somalia. You display the same level of intellect to that of Mooge. He is your alter-ego.

Well, well, Alpha, Jacaylbaro, Ayoub and the rest of juvenile secessionists may refuse to accept the painful reality, but I am here in Hargeisa and the national conversation is fast changing. Following the smooth elections in Mogadishu, the talk is now aboiut when and what shape a future union with Somalia will take, not if. For those who need some introduction to Somalilanders view about union, I volunteer to give a short brief. Agan, my friends will not like it, but since when has men liked whatis deterimental to their interests or belief system! 80% of the clans in the south east Hawd area (commonly known as ****) are ok with union,, have always been. revulsion to union with Somalia largely follows a clan pattern with **** west, the clan of the incumbent, and those whose name is the same as the **** neighbours, staunchly against while the rest are either not strongly against or even sympathetic to union. Reaction to the election of a new president in Somalia also brought out this pattern. People were glued to the TV sets, called each other to update one another and there is a mixed sense of apprehension and expectation in the streets of Hargeisa. It will still be tough for the ruling SNM (kulmiye now) to confront the monster they created and openly orient their people about the inevitabiity of union with Somalia. But it seems they don't have much time to sit and hope. A gentleman I spoke to this morning summed up the dwindling options for the ruling elite:" They either have to make their move now and get a good deal,or the people they rule will go to the south in search of jobs and opportunities one by one, and they will find themselves in a deserted political landscape". update from Haregisa Abtigiis N.B:- JB was unhappy with my earlier updates, and yesterday Alpha said I can be blamed for the massacre which happened in Harshin committed by Iley. Therefore,they could use the confusion and harm me. So, SOLers please know and tell that these two are responsible if anything happens to me.

Agree Apophis. Mooge is a buffon fadhi-ku-dirir from Easleigh.

ok, people don't get worked up on this. I was wrong. The most patriotic clan is Maaddeey's anarchists! Afterall, they are the only clan that can produce men of steel and honour: Aideed, Qaybdiid, Caato, Indha-cade, Aweys.

Alpha, the people in Harshin are not made of gold and the one's in Qorile and Gunagado from clay. I am telling you ILEY killed 12 civillians on Sept 06. Now, I hear he killed dozens more (I heard 11) in Harshin. These are all somalis. It is a tragedy. I feel for all of them but even more for the Harshin people because there is no excuse what-so-ever to attack them. At least in Qorille, he said you supported the ONLF. This is the man some people in this forum say has brought development and peace to the Somali region. He is a thug and the actions of a thug cannot be ascribed to a clan, particularly to a clan that is suffering the most. There are 4000 Og'den men in detention right now. There are 20,000 who fled to Kenya. There are around 10,000 civillians killed in the region in the last decade. please see the Harshin killing in this context.

Alpha, do you know the Liyu police killed 12 people in Qorille on sept 6 and all these were big-footed. Please stop considering hired killers as members of our community.

Whining and curses cannot be a political doctrine, nor can they be a policy framework. This creature by the name Mooge sees contradictions where none exist, hate where love blooms, sanity where maddness is raging such as in PL, and logic in the absurd. Metonymically, he lives upto his Mooge name, unaware of the real issues and fixated with trivialities. Is he Faroole's son?

South is cleaned, kismayo to be taken soon, Faroole's filth in PL needs to be cleansed as a matter of urgency. He epitmoises division and clannishness. The whole of Mogadishu is pissed of with the main clan in PL just because of Faroole rubbish utterances. And all just because he lost a house in mOgadishu which he built with ill-gotten money.

With the admission of Mooge and similar eland bulls ready to roar without necessarily understanding the subtext of political statements SOL old guard make, the floodgates have been opened and it does not require any clairvoyance to predict the direction of political debate in this forum. Since Oodweyne and men of real intellect disappeared from this forum, political debates took a downward turn. No fun, no novelty and no bite in the exchanges. Instead politics has become tiring and predictable with Mooge and ilk one-line jingoists filling the pages with sentimental outbursts and dry nonesense about non-existent inconsistencies. If Mooge is the intellect of the young generation of SOL,the forum has the future of Galmudug under Cabdi Qaybdiid. The real SOL needs to comeback.

Sensible puntlanders must start a revolution of their own. They must turn sayladda xoolaha ee Garowe into their own Tahriir square!

With the resounding victory for forces of enlightment and reason in the South, Somalia is bracing for a better days. But Somalia has a nasty tumor which is sullying its beauty like the fabled wound of the peacock. It is a fingerless curse, a fraudlent father and two fat gluttonous progeny. There is no cure if these tumor of Puntland are not surgically removed. Let us welcome President Hassan, Speaker Jawari and a new Prime Minister, hopefully Abdiweli. But Somalia is not yet out of the woods politically. Let us start "Ooperation Remove Faroole". Let us start the purification of Puntland from SOL. Let us banish the ghosts of this curse from the forum. General Duke is with us, let us pray for the small tumors like Uchi.

Hassan's name was mentioned several times to me over the last one month. Clearly, we thought either Badiyow or Hassan would be the one to take it if Sharif loses it. He wasn't that much of unknown quantity in Nairobi.

One of my longtime classmates become a pick-pocekt and was later arrested for rape. So, what has classmate-ship got to do with current status?

Timur;867743 wrote: His greatest qualification, and to me the most important by far, is the fact that he stayed with Somalia throughout the civil war. This man was already a shepherd of the people, declaring him president is not needed to validate his credentials as a leader. What you wrote here suggests Hassan worked for the people. As you know Education is a big business in Somalia nowadays and many people -good and bad, have set up schools and colleges. many people work for UN and NGOs inside Somalia. Not all are there for the people. I repeat: I am told Hassan is a very decent man. But let us not run to build the profile of a saint just yet. And none of his history (by itself) suggests that he worked for the people. That doesn't mean he worked against the people. I am just cautioning against starting a new sychopancy line as we are wont to do as Somalis when we get a leader. I don't want people singing for this man, or his portaits displayed on walls. Let him start work and focus on it. I am afraid we will spoil him very soon.

This list is based on solid intelligence. If you ask me, Matt Bryden is a tea-room consultant and I don't take his words to judge anyone. I still think Dr. Abdiweli is the favourite!

Here is the latest. The PM would be one of these men. These are the people considered: 1-Ali Isse .............................Khatumo (former World Bank man in Addis) 2-Hussien Abdi Halane ....... My friend and fellow big-foot (currently Save the Children Africa Director and former Finance Minsiter 3-Saacid Faarax Garaad........From Gedo (Abwaan will STAY in SOL if elected) 4-Abdiweli M Ali .................The outgoing PM and son of Mudug Go Abdiweli! GO!